Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[DrippingGoofball]

@ RC

Purdy sure Fishy is still lying about stuff. But he's not killing people at night.

Or recruiting players into a cult, like Jack. I hope someone is roleblocking Jack. EVERY. NIGHT.

Or we can lynch him, too.

[Shotty to the Body]

@ RC

Purdy sure Fishy is still lying about stuff. But he's not killing people at night.

Or recruiting players into a cult, like Jack. I hope someone is roleblocking Jack. EVERY. NIGHT.

Or we can lynch him, too.

This. RC also knows his shit. The problem comes down to we have no proof of Fishy's alignment and we caught him red handed in the night. 'Omg busdrive' is not a defense.

[Shotty to the Body]

@ RC

Purdy sure Fishy is still lying about stuff. But he's not killing people at night.

Or recruiting players into a cult, like Jack. I hope someone is roleblocking Jack. EVERY. NIGHT.

Or we can lynch him, too.

This. RC also knows his shit. The problem comes down to we have no proof of Fishy's alignment and we caught him red handed in the night. 'Omg busdrive' is not a defense.

[farside22]

@ RC

Purdy sure Fishy is still lying about stuff. But he's not killing people at night.

Or recruiting players into a cult, like Jack. I hope someone is roleblocking Jack. EVERY. NIGHT.

Or we can lynch him, too.

Listen here are the issues. Fishy is claiming he went to someone he thought was town to do something. (not saying what it was). He is claiming he was bus driven to RC and that was not his intended target.
RC says he didn't get anything except info that he was role blocked.
So whatever fish says he may be doing or not doing is not provable.
As far as I'm concerned he could have a RB ability that he is not saying to others. You want to keep someone who may be a role blocker alive?
You want to keep someone alive that is hiding info because the target he picked didn't die?
Do you know if his group is responsible for kills?

[Fishythefish]

Pretty sure I haven't said that I targetted someone I thought was town.

There are lots of actions people have at night. Almost none of them alert the target to being targetted. The fact that RC doesn't know I visited him for another action is no indicator at all that I didn't.

If you tracked me to RC, who got roleblocked, and then I claimed a non-confirmable town role of some kind, what would be your position on how likely my claim was to be real? Because AFAIC, that's pretty much the situation we are in.

[farside22]

Pretty sure I haven't said that I targetted someone I thought was town.

There are lots of actions people have at night. Almost none of them alert the target to being targetted. The fact that RC doesn't know I visited him for another action is no indicator at all that I didn't.

If you tracked me to RC, who got roleblocked, and then I claimed a non-confirmable town role of some kind, what would be your position on how likely my claim was to be real? Because AFAIC, that's pretty much the situation we are in.

Again. You didn't claim you went anywhere till you were trapped into saying you were so doing a hyperbole acting like what you did is in some way equivant is not factual and makes you more scummy.

Why don't you actually ask a question that has facts behind what you did and how it should be read by hiding information and me saying damn your right that makes sense.
Oh right you can't because your not town.

[Fishythefish]

I've asked you time and again if there's any way in which you think that my roleclaim doesn't match with what I've said and done. Time and again you have not replied. Hiding information

makes perfect sense for what I'm claiming

If you don't have reasons to disbelieve me, your stance really is nothing more nor less than "if it's not town, lynch it". It would apply just as well to any non-town player. I've given reasons why that's not a valid argument in this game.

Here is a summary of how I see things here:
1) If you don't believe the points system is likely to be real, then lynching me is obviously correct.
2) If you do believe the points system is likely to be real, then you have to discriminate between non-town players - whether are they harmful enough to the town that they are worth lynch. Saying "you've lied, you're not town" is not a valid method.
3) There is exactly one reason (that anyone has so far given) to disbelieve my claim - the unfortunate roleblock on RC. If that is enough evidence to disbelieve a claim, then fair enough, you should lynch me. I don't think it is, but then of course I wouldn't.
4) Your continual repetition of my anti-town actions that fit percectly with my claim is irrelevant. These actions can't possibly make my claim less likely to be true.

[farside22]

I don't know if the point system is real. I have no reason to believe you.
I have said that over and over. But in case you missed it.

I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE FISHY AS HE HAS LIED BEFORE WHICH MEANS THERE IS NO REASON FOR HIM TO NOT LIE AGAIN.

[Fishythefish]

You don't have a reason to believe anybody, about anything, until you know they are town. You judge people's claims on how well they fit their actions.

Anyhow, this argument is clearly going nowhere. I don't intend to make another post on the subject, if I can hold myself back.

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: I have? Wait what? Where? Huh? Please, explain yourself? I don't believe I ever said anything about voting other non hostiles. What game are you reading?

Secondly, where did I

ever

say Fishy was being completely truthful? I think my stance is that he's not a good lynch when we COULD BE LYNCHING OBVIOUS MAFIOSI!

So, yeah, two times misrep? What the fuck?

[farside22]

You don't have a reason to believe anybody, about anything, until you know they are town. You judge people's claims on how well they fit their actions.

Anyhow, this argument is clearly going nowhere. I don't intend to make another post on the subject, if I can hold myself back.

Lets count the scummy actions so far
1) claimed cop has a not town results
2) with held information about being able to go out to do something
3) wont say what that something is and RC has no knowledge of anything but a RB.

Explain actions that fit your claim. I wait with baited breath.

[UncertainKitten]

You stuck a worm on your tongue, farside?

At any rate, has anything new come out of the Fishy/farside fight? I mostly skimmed it and detected ridiculous amounts of wasted posts. Just curious if my impression was right?

[farside22]

UK: I'm judging him on his actions so far as of right now.
The only thing that has swayed me the slightest is that town's objective is to not be killed. The hey you followed fishy to player X who didn't die isn't a moving case when that player was roleblocked. I don't consider RB = Protown when a person who I followed is well I did something but I'm not saying what is giving me anything but bather about how his win condition is some point system that I don't know exsist.
I don't know if he went to block someone and was bus driven somewhere else. Do you?

[Fishythefish]

Yeah. I think that's a fair summary. Sorry about that

[Fishythefish]

(Obviously, that was a response to 1011)

[UncertainKitten]

I don't understand why no one has considered the possibility of RC being targetted both by a roleblocker and Fishy being redirected.

Or maybe you have and I missed it, idk.

Further, if fishy is lying for some reason, and did roleblock RC, I honestly wouldn't blame him for blocking him. RC was pretty well slated to be lynched today IIRC.

I don't trust fishy. But I do believe he is an other. I just don't know if it's hostile or not. Overall, I don't think he's worth a lynch when we have obv scum Nico lurking the fuck out of this game and possible SK Zorblag trying to talk things through. Honestly I haven't really been following the Zorb case as closely. Nico needs to die.

I expect Fishy will be dealt with eventually. I think neutralizing the mafia is the top goal.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh right, most importantly...

TUNNELING ON FISHY WILL NOT CATCH SCUM!

[farside22]

Sigh. I wish I was a vig this game.
UK: if you read fishy he never said his main goal was to go to RC. He won't say who is intial target was.

[UncertainKitten]

Right. Isn't that what I just said?

[Fishythefish]

I think at this point it's probably worth getting exactly what I've claimed in one place, for reference:

1) Points system: I win by amassing points. If my faction scores more than all other factions, I win.
2) There are one or more other members of my faction.
3) Through the use of an ability, I know that there are precisely three points scoring factions, The Judiciary, The Legislature and The Executive.
4) My faction has a one-shot transmitting weak track (which we intend to use tonight).
5) My faction also has one or more other abilities. All of these abilites are factional rather than personal.
6) I used one of these last night on a player who is not RC (every time I type this, I accidentally type the name of the player I actually targetted, then on preview I change it to RC). No ability that I used last night could roleblock a player.
7) All my abilities score points depending on how they resolve (and on whom).
8) In all cases, the scores I get for these abilities will be better if they help the town. In particular, the one shot transmitted weak track scores positively if I send it to town, and negatively if I send it to scum.
9) I score negative points for a town lynch, positive for a scum lynch. The positive number is larger than the negative one.
10) I would have scored positive points for surviving the game unclaimed (which means without claiming alignment, rolename or flavour).
11) I score positive points if the town win the game (whether I'm dead or alive).
12) All the points scores for the various actions are all between -5 and +5; most if not all are between -2 and +2.

Things I have not claimed:
1) Who my partner(s) are.
2) What my other night action(s) are.
3) Who I visited last night.
4) Which faction I am from.
5) The details of my scoring system.
Of these, there is no way I could be persuaded to disclose 1) 2), or 5) - I'd rather die. 3) and 4) I probably could tell you, if I thought there was a good reason. 3) I don't want to tell you because it might hint a little at 2), and 4) just because it gives unnecessary information to another points faction, but if there was significant benefit those wouldn't be major objections.

[Jack]

Oh right, most importantly...

TUNNELING ON FISHY WILL NOT CATCH SCUM!

But if you are a member of say, the legislature, and fishy is in the judiciary, who else would you vote for? I wonder what farside said about xvart.

[DrippingGoofball]

But if you are a member of say, the legislature, and fishy is in the judiciary, who else would you vote for? I wonder what farside said about xvart.

That's my position; all these "non-hostile others" are going to be at each other's throats. Since they lack a NK, they need to operate during the day.

[DrippingGoofball]

But if you are a member of say, the legislature, and fishy is in the judiciary, who else would you vote for? I wonder what farside said about xvart.

That's my position; all these "non-hostile others" are going to be at each other's throats. Since they lack a NK, they need to operate during the day.

[farside22]

If you think my points are flawed in some way DGB please point them out.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh right, most importantly...

TUNNELING ON FISHY WILL NOT CATCH SCUM!

But if you are a member of say, the legislature, and fishy is in the judiciary, who else would you vote for? I wonder what farside said about xvart.

Why the legislature? Very interesting choice.