Mini 954 ~ Mafia at the 11th Hour (Game Over!)

[Porkens]

I'd say that all three are in my second tier of suspects. It would help if d3x were posting.

[dramonic]

A case? meh; there's plenty out there, I think. However, I doubt that if I, porkens, make a case, anyone will look at it as anythig other than trying to wriggle out from under the hammer

Id say you ought to make the effort anyways. It can't really make you appear worse

[Vi]

Vote Count XXXVI:

- A Little Night (Catchy Hold) Music

Porkens (L-

2

) ~ Herodotus, Percy, Jahudo, dramonic

Percy (L-4) ~ Porkens
Pomegranate (L-4) ~ VP Baltar

Minimum (L-5)

Not Voting:

d3x, Pomegranate

-Still working on a Pomegranate replacement. If all goes well you will have a replacement by tomorrow morning.

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(62%)

[Herodotus]

Mod, could we have a d3x prod?

[Jahudo]

About Pom:

At the start of day 2 I went from having a little doubt on Pom's alignment to finding her town. It checks out that she was agreeing with the newer details of the wagon around the time she added her vote, and not just agreeing with the wagon in general. She specifically singled out some of my later points, and some of Nik's later defense as what triggered her vote. If it was about dramonic and/or d3x's cases finally hitting her, I'd be more likely to view it as bussing.

Its not as genuine as d3x or dramonic's presence on the wagon, but I still think it was a strong push that doesn't look like bussing to me. And if part of the Pom case is about slacking off day 2, that kinda happened to alot of people.

[VP Baltar]

Sigh, you guys really aren't going to listen to me today huh. I really hate when towns get like this. If Porkens flips town I'm going to be pissed off tomorrow and expect each of you to at least give what I've said the time of day.

I want to hear from d3x and Pom's replacement before I consider giving up my fight though.

[Jahudo]

No harm in talking about it more.

She's been floating under the radar far too much and when I iso'ed her I don't like her following regarding SOG/Cobalt. She only voted yesterday when I prompted her and when I did she chose the leading bandwagon on SOG to put him at L-1.

Do you think she was floating more than someone like dramonic or d3x yesterday?

Then she coasted on that for awhile until Cobalt started to look likely. Then she tries to get off of SOG by saying his 11th hour power makes him look town...which was kind of ridiculous.

Agreed. Both her and Porkens used that reason, and I don't understand how either of them got to it.

At that point she said Cobalt was in "worse shape". Unfortunately, she doesn't even mention him after that and continues to argue with SOG about why he's scum.

She mentioned Cobalt before that post, Post 457. It seemed pretty self-explanatory.

She was investigating SOG who was still a suspect despite that apparent "truthful claim tell", which is more than I could say about Porkens on anyone. I think it makes her look good that she's at least trying to contribute when she doesn't have a vote.

[Vi]

----------

Trumpet of Doom replaces Pomegranate. Welcome him!

d3x has been prodded...

[Trumpet of Doom]

I'll go read the thread now; if anyone has any questions for me or anything I should keep in mind during the read, feel free to tell me.

[Porkens]

welcome

[d3x]

I just caught up in another game and I'm starting this catch-up now. I haven't read from where I disappeared, so some of this may have been asked/answered already.

@

VP526

-

The only thing giving me pause about her is that she WAS on the Nikanor lynch and stuck with it

How likely is it that there weren't any Scum on the Nik Wagon? Afterall, almost all of the players still alive were on the Nik Wagon.

@

Percy527

- The points against Pork are pretty convincing, imo.

What is a "lurker fight"?

I was refering to Nik coming after you over 'Lurking' and called it the Lurker fight.

@

dram

- Happy ScumDay!

@

Pork531

-

yes I would have voted for any strong wagon on day 1.

Then why did you leave the Wagon? It was a strong Wagon and you left it for an RVS? I don't get it.

The power doesn't prove alignment, but the USE of the power was a strong town-tell.

Why? You reassert him using the ability solidified your TownRead on him numerous times, but I don't understand why.

@

VP539

-Perhaps this will change over the next few pages, but right now I don't see the case as much more than mildly suspicious.

@

Jahudo545

-

Porkens is my top suspect. The only thing Nikanor said about Porkens was:

I'm not saying that this isn't valid, but the same thing was true between Nik and Tony/sog. There wasn't much interaction between them at all.

@

Pork548

- How is it so impossible for sog to have been Scum, received this ability, described it, and used it?

@

VP558

- This is making me more comfortable with the ScumPom theory, but do you really see this as stronger than the Pork case? Is this a 2nd Wagon for 2nd Wagon's sake?

@

Percy560

-

I agree that the Hero/Cobalt/Sera slot is town

Why?

I came to that conclusion before the DDD and Tony/SOG flips

Can you point to where this happened?

@

Pork562

- If it was proTown for sog to Claim and use his 11th hour ability, why are you refusing to share any info about your's?

edit

: Mod566- I guess we know Pork's ability.

@

Pork573

- Why not give it {building a case} a shot?

@

Pork575

-Why do you think I'm scummy? Just because I haven't been onsite?

@

VP580

- I'm not against the PomWagon, I just don't think it's nearly as strong as the PorkWagon right now... lol... PorkWagon...

Trumpet of Doom replaces Pomegranate. Welcome him!

So Welcomed.

[Trumpet of Doom]

First up: see what I can get out of iso'ing the dead scum.

...not a whole lot - I have to hand it to Nik, he did a damn fine job of not giving me much to work with. 227 comes closest to having a three-"suspect" list - Herodotus, VPB, and me - and I

strongly

suspect there's exactly one scum on that list. I know it's not me, and I have a town read of uncertain intensity on VPB, so I'm leaning Hero-scum based on that - but I'm not really sure either way, just that there is very likely one scum and one town in the set {VPB, Herodotus}.

For other scum, I'm currently thinking Jahudo. I need to take a closer look at his play in general, and more specifically his behavior towards the Nik wagon.... there was something there that rubbed me the wrong way, and I can't remember exactly what. VPB also had a solid case on him D2.

I kinda see the Porkens wagon, but I think I like Jahudo for scum more right now.

Vote: Jahudo.

[Vi]

Vote Count XXXVII:

- Welcomes are Exchanged as the Pork Wagon Rolls Through Town

Porkens (L-

2

) ~ Herodotus, Percy, Jahudo, dramonic

Percy (L-4) ~ Porkens
Pomegranate (L-4) ~ VP Baltar
Jahudo (L-4) ~ Trumpet of Doom (Pomegranate)

Minimum (L-5)

Not Voting:

d3x,

Trumpet of Doom (Pomegranate)

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(54%)

[VP Baltar]

How likely is it that there weren't any Scum on the Nik Wagon? Afterall, almost all of the players still alive were on the Nik Wagon.

This is true. I was moreso referring to how she clung to it, but there was almost certainly at least one scum on that wagon somewhere. The trick is figuring out how intense the bus was. Recent games with Sotty7 have made me question the site meta of 'scum tend to bus late' a bit, but it's a hard theory to give up on.

Is this a 2nd Wagon for 2nd Wagon's sake?

I would say it started that way, but I liked my case even moreso after a reread. I would be happy with that lynch or Porkens today however.

Btw d3x, why aren't you voting if you're convinced of the Porkwagon?

Do you think she was floating more than someone like dramonic or d3x yesterday?

Probably not, but I just have a better feeling from those two than I do from her, which in turn makes her floating by much more suspect to me.

She was investigating SOG who was still a suspect despite that apparent "truthful claim tell", which is more than I could say about Porkens on anyone. I think it makes her look good that she's at least trying to contribute when she doesn't have a vote.

I don't think it made any sense for her to be worrying about SOG at that point if she was handing him town points and thought Cobalt was still suspect. There is just too much sanddancing from her in my opinion. I don't really feel what she is saying in thread is following with who she is saying she supports the lynch of. If she was scum I see this as possibly trying to move the lynch away from Cobalt. It's lip service. If either Hero or Trumpet flip scum and Porkens doesn't, I would want to look at the other one.

[Percy]

I continue to have limited access. Here's a quick post. More soon.

Who did Nikanor vote for? I forget. I like to wagon hop.

Lynch plz.

Right, I could have been bussing, but is that really the strongest thing y'all have to go on? That I COULD HAVE been bussing?

Porkens: Hey, here are the things that make me town!
Jahudo: They're not towntells.
Porkens: Then since there is no case against me, I must be town!
Double

I agree that the Hero/Cobalt/Sera slot is town

Why?

The Nikanor push against him is hard to reconcile as a bussing or distancing move.

I came to that conclusion before the DDD and Tony/SOG flips

Can you point to where this happened?

Sure.

Porkens still #1. Jahudo is probably #2 still... Need to re-read him.

[Jahudo]

RE d3x:

I think Nikanor was just waiting for the winner of DDD and Tony to emerge, and maybe even let the loser get lynched on their own. So Nik was hesitant to say either was more scummy, but kinda hinted they both could be scum.

Nikanor calling Porkens a 3rd party role made no strategic sense. There's no 3rd party in this game, so it couldn't have been seriously trying to throw suspicion on Porkens. It looks like an illusion.

Porkens' take on Nikanor is a better connection than Nik's on Porkens though.

----------------

@Trumpet: What about VPB's case was solid? All of it? Maybe VPB addressed what I did that rubbed you the wrong way.

[Porkens]

I continue to have limited access. Here's a quick post. More soon.

Who did Nikanor vote for? I forget. I like to wagon hop.

Lynch plz.

Right, I could have been bussing, but is that really the strongest thing y'all have to go on? That I COULD HAVE been bussing?

Porkens: Hey, here are the things that make me town!
Jahudo: They're not towntells.
Porkens: Then since there is no case against me, I must be town!
Double

I agree that the Hero/Cobalt/Sera slot is town

Why?

The Nikanor push against him is hard to reconcile as a bussing or distancing move.

I came to that conclusion before the DDD and Tony/SOG flips

Can you point to where this happened?

Sure.

Porkens still #1. Jahudo is probably #2 still... Need to re-read him.

scum.

[d3x]

@VP588-

Btw d3x, why aren't you voting if you're convinced of the Porkwagon?

I wanted 2 things to happen first.
1. To give Pork a chance to answer my questions.
2. To have ToD get a read through in and find out his thoughts on the game. Considering he's the proposed 2nd Wagon, I figured we would want to have a read before going to Lynch.

[VP Baltar]

we would want to have a read before going to Lynch.

You mean read his case? Read Jahudo in ISO?

[Porkens]

1. @

Pork531

-

yes I would have voted for any strong wagon on day 1.

Then why did you leave the Wagon? It was a strong Wagon and you left it for an RVS? I don't get it.

7.

The power doesn't prove alignment, but the USE of the power was a strong town-tell.

Why? You reassert him using the ability solidified your TownRead on him numerous times, but I don't understand why.

2. @

Pork548

- How is it so impossible for sog to have been Scum, received this ability, described it, and used it?

4. @

Pork573

- Why not give it {building a case} a shot?

5. @

Pork575

-Why do you think I'm scummy? Just because I haven't been onsite?

1. It was not RVS, Serraphim was being scummy (this slots been replaced three times now?). At that moment, I certainly would have liked a Serra lynch.

7. It didn't solidify my read, it made my read. It went down in a town way. I know that power and alignment aren't related, but it was a town way to go down. But fuck, if it doesn't look that way to ANYONE else; that's fine, I'll stop talkin' about it, except to say that I was right and Percy was wrong, wrong, wrong triple infinity (or scum).

2. It's not impossible at all, but from my point of view, he should have lived through yesterday for doing what he did.

4. I have, I did. It's Percy and Cobolt (herod).

5. I never said I think you're scummy.

[d3x]

You mean read his case?

Sorry, I meant have a read on ToD.

On a similar note, I went back and looked at his most recent post and realized that I had read it wrong. Originally, I thought he was saying these were his initial impressions coming off of a Nik Iso. He's actually saying that these are hi sfull conclusions from reading the full thread. I can now get behind a Pom/ToD Wagon.

Vote:Trumpet of Doom

[Vi]

Vote Count XXXVIII:

- I really just wanted an excuse to post this

Porkens (L-

2

) ~ Herodotus, Percy, Jahudo, dramonic

Trumpet of Doom (L-3) ~ VP Baltar, d3x
Percy (L-4) ~ Porkens
Jahudo (L-4) ~ Trumpet of Doom

Minimum (L-5)

Not Voting:

d3x

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(47%)

[Herodotus]

Porkens wrote:
I hate day 1.
I like to wagon-jump.
I hammered scum.
I didn't (ultimately) support lynch of town.
1. Null tell
2. Null tell
3. Could be bussing
4. You didn't explain why SOG's action was pro-town and I still don't agree it was pro-town. Because I think he would have eventually used his power to help save himself as scum. The idea that it wouldn't help him could've been a nice touch if he thought the power he had wouldn't save him.

3. Right, I could have been bussing, but is that really the strongest thing y'all have to go on? That I COULD HAVE been bussing?

This is a misrep. Jahudo was responding to the points you raised in defense of yourself. His response that these points aren't good town-tells is not the same as the cases against you.

1. It was not RVS, Serraphim was being scummy (this slots been replaced three times now?). At that moment, I certainly would have liked a Serra lynch.

Twice, fwiw. And being replaced is a scumtell? LOL.

Or Cobalt, whose replacement came in hyper-agressive. I see a strong connection between Percy and Cobolt.

I'm not "Cobalt's replacement" so much as Cobalt is "Herodotus's replacee". It feels odd that you keep on referring to me as Cobalt.

Who did Nikanor vote for? I forget. I like to wagon hop.

Lynch plz.

Wagon hopping really isn't a scumtell coming from Porkens. I'm not sure, but I don't really think the question there is, either, as long as he isn't just avoiding responding to your question. (And he did give a half-answer in 594.)

[Herodotus]

I went back and looked at his most recent post and realized that I had read it wrong. Originally, I thought he was saying these were his initial impressions coming off of a Nik Iso.

He's actually saying that these are hi sfull conclusions from reading the full thread.

I can now get behind a Pom/ToD Wagon.

@ToD: Is this correct?

For other scum, I'm currently thinking Jahudo.

I need to take a closer look at his play in general, and more specifically his behavior towards the Nik wagon.... there was something there that rubbed me the wrong way, and I can't remember exactly what.

VPB also had a solid case on him D2.

Please do so.

[Porkens]

I see where you are coming from when you say it's a "missrep" but that list was supposed to represent the sum of the case against me. The fact that it wasn't added to is what prompted me to say "is that the best you have?"



I think I full-answered about my vote on Serra (off the nik wagon)

Yes, being replaced I believe is a scumjtell (no data to back that up)