InflatablePie wrote:havingfitz wrote:InflatablePie...in post 40 I was undecided....which is
why
I didn't place a vote.
Yes, but in 40 you also said that the claim was more beneficial to scum. And you only voted after Hoopla voted you...
This is what I said, "I lean towards there being more benefit to scum fakeclaiming PGO (especially so early in the game) than town legitimately claiming it."
...which is not quite as firm a stance as your satement that I said the claim "
was
more beneficial to scum." Which was a stance I took later (when I voted) and explains the unvote without a vote (i.e. due to my uncertainty at the time on an appropriate vote recipient).
Furry wrote:So it is policy. Why did it take you so long to push policy? What is your view on Miller claims? What would be your view on a page one VT claim?
Show me where I have called my stance "policy". Is the fact you continue to color my vote a policy vote the basis for your voting me? If it is...isn't that essentially policy lynching people who push policy lynches (which I am not but you are accusing me of). Asking questions related to the previously unknown to me concept of policy lynching PGOs and actually pushing for a policy lynch are two different things. As I have never pushed "policy lynches" before...accusing me of doing so now is totally unfounded. I have given my reasoning for suspecting/voting Hoopla, and on the basis of policy lynching is not one of them.. Interesting to note the one previous time I was accused of pushing a policy lynch was when I was town being accused by scum. Coincidence?
I've already responded to your miller question.
A page one VT claim would strike me as odd and therefore capture my attention in a negative light. But I would not view it as negatively as I would/do a page one PGO claim.
Hoopla wrote:What do you think the right decision is if you were dealt the hand of PGO?
I consider claiming it a little like insurance - you can run the risk that no town PR's will hit you, and they might not. You might be lynched, or NK'ed by anti-town faction first, and that is a positive result. But if it goes wrong, it really goes wrong and I have the power to wipe out multiple town PR's, which has the ugly image of looking like 3rd party/mafia if I were to then claim. Claiming Day 1 prevents the best and worst case scenarios, which is more beneficial to town when the worst case scenarios are more powerful/likely than the best case scenarios.
Policy lynches contribute to town losses in the long run, because they are based on policy as opposed to any genuine scumhunting. It means at best, the lynch will be random (that is if you assume scum isn't the ones pushing policy lynches), and when you only have three mislynches in a Mini Normal, it hurts a lot if you're wrong. You should be able to assess my play and find things I am doing to be more town or scum motivated, rather than just policy.
See Policy statements to Furry above.
If I was a PGO (having never been one or played with one) I would probably keep it closehold unless I was in danger of being lynched. I'm not sure when or if I would claim it but I am pretty confident it would not be to start off a game.
As I've already stated, in what I am sure is not an all inclusive break down, I see it benefitting scum more than town because if the claimer is town and telling the truth:
- Keeps other PRs from touching you at night
(Good for town)
- As long as you are alive it continues to cast suspicions on validity of your claim and motives behind the early claim
(IMO bad for town)
- I don't think it improves your chances of staying alive any more than town players who have not claimed
(Null advantage)
- Keeps anti-town roles from touching you at night
(Bad for town)
- It tells scum who you are and allows them to look elsewhere for other possible PRs.
(Bad for town)
Whereas if the claimer is an anti-town role fakeclaiming:
- Keeps town PRs from touching you at night
(Bad for town)
- It forces town PRs to look elsewhere for other possible anti-town...however...the advantage of narrowing the field for town to affect anti-town with their night actions is less (assuming 2-3 remaining anti-town roles) than anti-town's advantage mentioned above in finding town PRs.
(Bad for town)
- As long as you are alive it continues to cast suspicions on validity of your claim and motives behind the early claim
(IMO bad for town)
- I don't think it improves your chances of staying alive any more than town players who have not claimed
(Null advantage)
Taken as a whole...I see the PGO claim to be overall more beneficial to scum which is why I am voting you. Not on policy....because I think your claim was scummy. Additionally...the fact it has not gotten more support tends to make me think scum are supporting it.