Mini 967 - Mafia War (Over)

[Katsuki]

Hmm. I still like the idea of lynching me=weird the most. I will not put him at L1 though.

Amish seems to be pman's biggest defender, though a few others seem to think that defending those they perceive as town is ok (horror was one, do not remember who else). While I do not usually support players defending others as early in the game as pman did me, his arguments did not seem particularly scummy. For me, pman's response to empking in post 75 is what gives me a non-scum read for now.

Both Amish and Unsight seem to be brewing up sandstorms though. It feels that after their exchange, we really did not get anywhere. My problem with Amish was his initial reaction to unsight (post 114 in response to post 109). His subsequent skirmish with unsight did not help his case. I have a neutral read on them thus far, though amish is definately on my radar.

[Stef]

Well, I shot down all your reasons for voting me and you're still voting me while taking a decidedly neutral stance on Me=Weird. It looks a lot like you're sitting on your vote until the deadline draws near planning to switch to Me=Weird at the last moment.

You're kidding, right?

You

SHOT DOWN

my reasons?

Point 2: "Going to such great lengths to explain what was essentially a null tell was useless" =/= "Post subject 83 is lynch-worthy" - contradicting yourself since you still don't explain why it was

lynch-worthy

and instead you call his post useless. Contradictions like this either indicate stupidity or scum who isn't careful. I tend to go towards the latter and risking the first. Your cases have only been based on making a big fuss out of nothing and then, when the wagons didn't build up, let your suspicions die out quietly. Where is your suspicion of joker now? You said that THAT post ALONE was lynch-worthy.

Point 3: " No one has asked me about Me=Weird and I was pursuing my suspects, not dropping random commentary" Yeah, I can see how the person with 90% chances of being lynched was a random commentary for everyone, not something relevant to the game. Who cares who gets lynched, let's pursue bullcrap cases and ignore what's going on. Right!

Point 4: "My questioning him in the beginning was a direct result of suspicion" - dude, you asked him who he suspects and then you voted for him. When you ask someone who he suspects it is NOT an indicator of suspicion neither for the player asked nor for any other players. It's like saying that if empking asked me if I think Me=weird should be lynched than it must mean he considers me scummy. You made no statement regarding your suspicion of him until AFTER his vote. That is why it is OMGUS no matter how you mask it.

Point 6: "At the same time, you didn't review AC and completely ignored deadjoker in your post. It all seems oddly selective. "

You and Horror crack me up. I also ignored other players. Why don't you mention them as well? I know why I didn't. I didn't because I only addressed players who I thought were scummy or players who I thought needed addressing. What you are doing is oddly selective much more than what I did considering what I did wasn't odd at all.

I see now, while ending the comments on your post, how you

SHOT DOWN

my reasons. Oh wait, no I don't. I think you are scum and I want you dead. Simple as that. As for your theory that I would sit out the deadline to jump on Me=weird on the last moment...meh.. I will not insult you so that I don't upset the mod.

Don't see why I would defend myself against such nonsense but I will anyway just so that others may also see how flawed your theory is and how you are, ONCE AGAIN, trying to make a fuss out of nothing by using craplogic.

You say that I'm waiting for the deadline to draw near - I'm the one who asked for the freaking extension to the deadline. Who cares right? It is obvious that I asked for an extension because I couldn't wait for the deadline to get here - not.

You say that I would wait for the deadline so that I would jump on the Me=weird wagon - I advocated AGAINST his lynch and never said otherwise. It makes perfect sense that I would want him dead, right? - NOT

Also, both arguments together are even more ridiculous considering that the deadline was A DAY away, Me=weird was at L-2 and I could have done exactly what you mentioned THEN. Who cares about this as well? Well, obviously you don't.

Also, this is how you scum-hunt? Supposedly someone was scum and was planning to do that, that is how you hunt the scum? You TELL them what you think they are going to do? That's just horrible and it could also be considered coaching, the same thing you accused joker of doing.

---------------------

On another note, starting to agree with the voices against AC.

Over and out for now. My vote

STANDS

on unsight.

[Hrezs]

@me=
why not vote now?
he's at 2
you're at 4
if you suspect him there's no real reason to not vote for him
maybe he's just idling out until deadline then is going to spring a cop claim on us then watch the scramble to find a acceptable lynch
with more votes on him its less likely that this scramble will happen and he'll have to respond sooner or draw even more votes

[Unsight]

@stef

Point 2 - For ease of explanation, I'll color code:

"Going to such great lengths to explain what was essentially a null tell was useless"

=/=

"Post subject 83 is lynch-worthy"

- contradicting yourself since you still don't explain why it was

lynch-worthy

and instead you call his post useless.

Quite right. There are three possibilities as to why you would defend some one in a mini bandwagon (he was and remains far from being quick-lynched by scum) in an attempt to bring it to a halt.

1. You are both scum, and you are attempting to take some heat off of him. This is a potential chainsaw defense, but I could be wrong with what I've read on it thus far, nevertheless it is highly likel to be a scum-tell. As Empking stated, scum are more concerned with votes, I think this holds true with scum's partner(s) in crime.

2. You are scum and he is town. Simple buddying.

3. You are both town (or he is scum and you are town, same analysis). Anti-town, because as been mentioned several time before discussion is good for town, and even small bandwagons on town can help flush out the mafia.

You want to defend a fellow town? Scum hunt some one else, build a case, and if you get enough evidence other players will follow.

I don't like the fact that you deliberately left that out of your quote of my post:

* deadjoker's post felt very disingenuous. Going to such great lengths to explain what was essentially a null tell was useless. Lots of words with little content.

And the second to last paragraph was basically telling pman to go bark up another tree.

Point 3 - IIRC he was at 4 votes for quite a while and that isn't "90% chances of being lynched." I took a stand on the Me=Weird wagon in this post while you're still waffling. You're currently guilty of the exact act you're accusing me of here.

Point 4 - You're trying to tell me why I made my own post, lying about it, and then saying it's OMGUS. I've already explained where my suspicion of AC originates.

Point 6 - I mentioned the two people I've called out as suspects that stood out to me as being excluded. I didn't run through your post comparing it to the game list.

"I'm the one who asked for the freaking extension to the deadline" - Depends on Me=Weird's alignment. Obviously if you were were scumbuddies then it would definitely be in your best interest to get an extension. Though it would explain your waffling, I wouldn't buy that theory without a Me=Weird scumflip.

"Also, this is how you scum-hunt? Supposedly someone was scum and was planning to do that, that is how you hunt the scum? You TELL them what you think they are going to do? That's just horrible and it could also be considered coaching, the same thing you accused joker of doing. " - If I see what looks like a mislynch on the horizon then yes, I'm going to make it hard as hell for scum to justify their vote. Keep in mind, everything I've said to you applies to AC too.

[Stef]

@unsight: 1. You broke the rules of the game. Don't use red.

2. For the moment I've got nothing else to add to this conversation because it has become irreducible considering it's down to "I say, you say". Also, no one else is commenting on it and a discussion that is halting discussion is bad. Your arguments haven't convinced me, live with it.

------------------------------------

3. What the hell did you people want with an extension if you went MIA?

Mod, please prod: Amish_Charney, Empking, Exemption, pman5595 as none of them have posted in the last 48 hours. Great job guys!

Come on! Start playing the damn game.

[Stef]

Was reading over player's posts to see when they last posted and something popped up. Empking, hey there!

Why have you been pushing for a claim before Me=Weird was at L-1 and before anyone else expressed any intention of sealing his fate?

Why are you pushing for a claim at all? Even if he were a power role, how would it be helpful for the town for him to claim?

--------------------

On another note, just had an idea, a theory you may call it. Want feedback on it from the people who weren't on the Me=weird wagon. Either way the people who weren't on the wagon should be more town than scum.

I was looking at the Me=weird wagon and thinking about the two factions. For one, I didn't notice there were two factions as I'm sure most people didn't. Me=weird did. Any of the two factions would know of the other one's description from their win condition. This is a null-tell but might be something considering:

The Me=Weird wagon struck me as odd and I couldn't put my finger on it. So.. there is a wagon against a player. Two mafia = 4 scum.

The wagon against Me=weird had 5 people on it being at L-2. Now:

If Me=Weird was town he would have had 4 possible scum votes on him. By using probability, the scum, together, should have had enough votes (together with w/e town players) to lynch me=weird, all this unless all the scum were already on the wagon which is a tad unlikely. However, if Me=Weird was scum there would only be TWO scum votes on him instead of 4 and that would make the lynch harder.

Either way, this calls for attention to both Me=Weird and the people on his wagon/not on his wagon but in my opinion it increases the odds of Me=Weird being scum, together with the fact that he is, at the moment, the worst player in the game and that I kept waiting for him to make a goddamn decent post and he has failed miserably.

---------------------------------

Hard thing to decide who is scummiest at the moment. So many possibilities.

People disappear when they are pressured invoking RL issues or disappear all together, people who are inactive and unhelpful are scummy for it, people who are active and unhelpful are scummy, people who blindly defend other people are scummy, people who are anti-town are scummy... meh.

The above description fits more than half the players. Two factions sucks for town as it is. If the town is also playing a bad game.. that almost always means town=dead.

Who should I vote for? Unsight for his wild goose chases and fail logic (in my humble opinion), Me=weird for being null and possibly scum?, Empking or AC or Horror cause they are all null? Pman who blindly defended katsuki in what appears to be budding and who has now became null?

That's freaking half the players in the game and odds are I didn't include all the scum and that's just sad. Unless town starts playing better and more active we're screwed.

[Soundwish]

LA fixed. Disappointed at the lack of support for an Exemption wagon.

[Snow_Bunny]

-Vote Count-

Amish_Charney (2) - Unsight, Hrezs
Hrezs (0)
pman5595 (0)
Unsight (1) - Stef
horrordude0215 (0)
Soundwish (0)
Katsuki (2) - Empking, Me=Weird
Stef (0) -
deadjoker (0)
Me=Weird (4) - horrordude0215, Exemption, Amish_Charney, pman5595
Exemption (1) - Soundwish,
Empking (1) - Katsuki

Not voting - deadjoker

It's seven to lynch.

Imma sending mah prods.

Deadline is on 26 May 2010.

[horrordude0215]

Stef, how could someone be "Null and possibly scum"?

[Me=Weird]

Mod: Limited access today, very limited access tomorrow.

Yay! First horse show!

[deadjoker]

"waiting for him [Me=Weird] to post anything of substence" while half-heartedly pursuing someone else looks like a precursor to an opportunistic vote.

Well, I shot down all your reasons for voting me and you're still voting me while taking a decidedly neutral stance on Me=Weird. It looks a lot like you're sitting on your vote until the deadline draws near planning to switch to Me=Weird at the last moment.

This is what I mean by mentioning this twice. Why are you so determined to keep votes off of Me=Weird? Do you really have that strong of a town read on him?

Anyway, you're right. I could wait until stef swaps to Me=Weird to call him on it. However, I'd rather he justify his position now. I don't want a "oh noes teh deadline... vote vote vote" coming. By the time I could call him on it, we might already be in twilight.

If I see what looks like a mislynch on the horizon then yes, I'm going to make it hard as hell for scum to justify their vote. Keep in mind, everything I've said to you applies to AC too.

Well I guess you do. You definitely don't want to see Me=Weird get lynched. So a very serious question I have to ask you is why are you so sure Me=Weird is town? What has he said which gives you such a strong read that he is town that you want to prevent his lynch?

Just an observation to note, Me=Weird has more posts than over half the players in this game (yourself included). I counted...

This set off my scum radar, in a huge way. Me=Weird may have a lot of posts, but most of them are him making excuses as to why he isn't here. I look for quality, not quantity. Me=Weird has posted very little, despite his high post count. Everyone here (except for maybe you) knows Me=Weird is attempting to skip through this game by posting very little and hoping some one else replaces him as the biggest bandwagon.

You

just tried to artificially claim Me=Weird is active and posting a lot of quality material.

It also is no coincidence that in the beginning of the game you were very content to actively lurk during the Katsuki bandwagon, but once you saw Me=Weird had four votes on him you became active and started to artificially generate suspicion on me, and now you are doing it to Amish. I see very little basis to your accusations against Amish, including the fact you OMGUS voted him after you realized I wasn't falling for your gimmicks.

Nothing is adding up about you Unsight. You twist people's words and contradict yourself - a lot.

[Exemption]

sorry for no post in a while. revising hard atm.

Will post later tonight

[Amish_Charney]

picking up prod, working on a post.

[Unsight]

This is what I mean by mentioning this twice. Why are you so determined to keep votes off of Me=Weird? Do you really have that strong of a town read on him?

Well I guess you do. You definitely don't want to see Me=Weird get lynched. So a very serious question I have to ask you is why are you so sure Me=Weird is town? What has he said which gives you such a strong read that he is town that you want to prevent his lynch?

My stance on Me=Weird is as I said in this post. It's not a "he is town" read, it's a "the things people are voting him for aren't scummy" read. When I see someone scummy on a wagon, I think less of that wagon. The more scummy people I see on the wagon or votelessly pushing it, the less I think of it. Seeing AC on the wagon with zero other suspects and not actually questioning anyone gives me a very bad feeling. Seeing stef constantly avoiding taking a position on Me=Weird gives me a very bad feeling. Seeing several of the votes more or less based off the whole policy lynch thing when there are people I feel are doing actual scummy things adds up to me not being a part of that wagon. I would 100% rather lynch someone I feel is scum than someone on a wagon like that so I'm working toward it.

This set off my scum radar, in a huge way. Me=Weird may have a lot of posts, but most of them are him making excuses as to why he isn't here. I look for quality, not quantity. Me=Weird has posted very little, despite his high post count. Everyone here (except for maybe you) knows Me=Weird is attempting to skip through this game by posting very little and hoping some one else replaces him as the biggest bandwagon.

You

just tried to artificially claim Me=Weird is active and posting a lot of quality material.

It also is no coincidence that in the beginning of the game you were very content to actively lurk during the Katsuki bandwagon, but once you saw Me=Weird had four votes on him you became active and started to artificially generate suspicion on me, and now you are doing it to Amish. I see very little basis to your accusations against Amish, including the fact you OMGUS voted him after you realized I wasn't falling for your gimmicks.

Nothing is adding up about you Unsight. You twist people's words and contradict yourself - a lot.

I haven't contradicted myself at all and I haven't twisted anyone's words. In one post, stef leaves out relevant half of one of my posts and attacks me with it. That's twisting words. In the same post, stef makes up his own reason for one of my posts and attacks me with that. That's twisting words. I don't do that, at all. I don't need to make up things or leave parts out because I'm out to find scum, not create scum.

I have not lurked at all during this game. I'm generally able to post at least once/day in all my games during weekdays. I was away from the game for part of a weekend and the following Monday. I was back on Tuesday and have been active the whole time. I don't lurk.

My suspicion on you was and is real. The whole reason I let off you was that pman was gone so you couldn't question him. Since pman came back, you haven't done anything. For someone you "strongly suspected," you sure didn't go very far. I'm also still curious as to why stef deliberately didn't mention you or AC in his summary post. My thinking is that either there's absolutely nothing worth commenting about you two to him or he's trying to buddy with the two people I have accused.

What do you think would be his motivation for that?

[Amish_Charney]

Really Hrezs, you're making a case on me based on diction? I use scummy and anti-town interchangeably. I can just use scummy from now on, if it will suit your stupid syntactical demands. The fact that I believed me= to be working off a foregone conclusion was a thought on my part, I just don't like taking up walls of text to say the same thing. And I don't just go after people who ask me questions, I voted for me= weird, and I'm still voting for me= long before he started his equally asinine case against me. Also, I did explain my vote- I thought he was working off of a foregone conclusion, and I didn't like talking about a policy lynch on the third page. I wasn't the first person to say it, but that doesn't mean its any more or less anti-town than anyone else's votes.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. I voted for unsight because she did no scumhunting o her own, and was just pinging people. I thought it was anti-town. I'm not voting her because I think me= weird is much more scummy. (He's scummy because he talks about policy lynching on the first page- just clairfying, I know you have short term memory problems).

I was the first person to vote for stef. Was I parroting my thoughts?

I brought up zodiark because he hadn't posted in a week. That's ant- sorry, scummy.

That said, I don't think you're scum, like I said- I'm not very good at this game and my playing has been sporadic. I apologize, and I plan on being more active.

I still think me= is scum, mostly because of his talk of a policy lynch, a fair amount of nothing posts don't help either. Also, his constant excuses are beginning to wear on me, if he's so busy and tired, he should just replace out.

I think unsight is being antitown because she has some serious tunnel vision problems- largely based on what Stef said, I'd post them, but then you'd accuse me of parroting.
(ignoring me='s "case" on me because it's stupid, language based, and OMGUS-ey)

I think Exemption is town, I agree that wanting a quick lynch is much more scummy than parroting, especially for new players.

[Stef]

Seeing stef constantly avoiding taking a position on Me=Weird gives me a very bad feeling.

My god. Learn to freaking read.

[Stef]

Nevermind, it's obvious that you can read and just choosing to ignore my post since you'd have to be retarded otherwise. My guess is that you're scum together with Me=Weird. Out of you two I'd lynch you first.

[Exemption]

Right so since I was away Unsight has been found to be stopping a Me=lynch (Love how you can do that with his name.) To me it clearly looks like she doesn't want it to happen. Lets not go group hunting this early Stef but yes I would be inclined to believe that as well. Just depends if and what Me= flips as. I would not agree that you shot down his posts and am more inclined to agree with step on this argument. The way you just ask one person loads of questions annoys me. Doesn't really bring any of your own scum hunting to the table just makes other people do there own.

[Stef]

Exemption, things that are left unsaid can be forgotten. Also, supposed there's enough support for this theory, lynch Me=weird instead of Unsight first?

[Stef]

EBWOP: "Why lynch Me=weird first and not unsight?"

[deadjoker]

Vote Unsight

I'm going to quote the most important part of my last post again, which you ignored for reasons which are quite obvious. You are scum, you are twisting in the wind, and I am enjoying it.

This set off my scum radar, in a huge way. Me=Weird may have a lot of posts, but most of them are him making excuses as to why he isn't here. I look for quality, not quantity. Me=Weird has posted very little, despite his high post count. Everyone here (except for maybe you) knows Me=Weird is attempting to skip through this game by posting very little and hoping some one else replaces him as the biggest bandwagon. You just tried to artificially claim Me=Weird is active and posting a lot of quality material.

Oh what really tickled me was you digging up old material on me about pman, who I have already posted that he had dropped off my scum radar. You are just a piece of work.

What also tickles me is all the people busting me over "coaching" pman, which pretty much everyone does in every game, mine was just more forceful and blunt.

Coaching is like posting "be more active or we will lynch you for lurking". Or telling people they shouldn't switch their votes to Me=Weird. Or telling people to claim ... etc etc etc. Everyone does it. It is how you get people to post and take a stance, which is very beneficial. The fact Unsight called it "a lynchable post" just means she was trying to break up the flow on Me=Weird.

You know what ...

Unvote; Vote Me=Weird

When he flips scum, it is going to be a very short day 2.

[Amish_Charney]

I have not lurked at all this game

Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: 3

Mod: Prod on Unsight please?

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: 4

I have not lurked at all this game

[Hrezs]

Really Hrezs, you're making a case on me based on diction? I use scummy and anti-town interchangeably. I can just use scummy from now on, if it will suit your stupid syntactical demands. The fact that I believed me= to be working off a foregone conclusion was a thought on my part, I just don't like taking up walls of text to say the same thing. And I don't just go after people who ask me questions, I voted for me= weird, and I'm still voting for me= long before he started his equally asinine case against me. Also, I did explain my vote- I thought he was working off of a foregone conclusion, and I didn't like talking about a policy lynch on the third page. I wasn't the first person to say it, but that doesn't mean its any more or less anti-town than anyone else's votes.

To start, anti-town and scummy are not the same thing. They often line up, but are definately not the same thing.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. I voted for unsight because she did no scumhunting o her own, and was just pinging people. I thought it was anti-town. I'm not voting her because I think me= weird is much more scummy. (He's scummy because he talks about policy lynching on the first page- just clairfying, I know you have short term memory problems).

Why is pinging people antitown? Asking people to explain themselves is a way to scumhunt. The way people respond to things is how you try and get a feel of how they think and if its the mindset of scum. I fail to see how this isn't scum hunting for yourself.

I was the first person to vote for stef. Was I parroting my thoughts

Your vote on stef was because you thought she was squelching conversation by talking in absolutes. Note: not because what hse actually said was scummy. (See, here's a difference between antitown and scummy)


Willing to accept your case on me=. Not sure why your case on me= is strong than your case on unsight yet your vote is on unsight. Unless you think unsight is trying to appear active by just questioning people)which I think you do, but he's been around posting quite a bit recently)


Also, there's a difference between not posting and lurking. You can be not posting and not lurking(aka, not reading the read at all)

[pman5595]

prod received. Unsight is becoming more scummy, but me=weird is worse. Unsight seems like scum trying to talk their way out of a corner. Very defensive feeling posts.

[Unsight]

I have not lurked at all this game

Posted:

Sat May 08, 2010 1:07 pm

Post subject: 3

Mod: Prod on Unsight please?

Posted:

T

ue May 11, 2010 6:37 pm

Post subject: 4

I have not lurked at all this game

I really am getting tired of this. You and stef keep leaving out parts of my posts on purpose. Here's the full quote:

I have not lurked at all during this game. I'm generally able to post at least once/day in all my games during weekdays. I was

away from the game for part of a weekend

and the following Monday.

I was back on Tuesday

and have been active the whole time. I don't lurk.