Newbie 961 - Game Over - Town Victory

[Doubtful]

Sure...

Vote: Zajnet

For no reason than randomness...

[Doubtful]

My avatar is a blank image :S

[Doubtful]

Random comment: Everyone that has voted so far has voted for the person directly below them in the original list...

[Doubtful]

Plus,

For no reason than randomness...

strikes me as off... why defend a random vote?

I meant "For no reason

other

than randomness".

And yeah, it sounded weird when the "other" isn't included.

I was just stating that I had no justification for my vote, and by defending that random vote, I have (tried) to stop all questions about it until further developments . (e.g. if I don't unvote and don't reply)

[Doubtful]

Not a big fan of the voting in order of mod list thing. Strikes me as an RNG vote pattern, which I hate because it absolves voters of accountability, which IMO defeats the purpose of even random votes.

I agree. However, I honestly discovered the mod list voting pattern after the third vote was cast. And I'm sorry if that unintentionally distracted people from the RVS, but I think the pattern was bound to be discovered by someone eventually. I agree that following "the pattern" isn't a good decision, but wouldn't NOT voting "the pattern" make RVS impure as well?

(Note: I'm not trying to be super defensive, but I just want to affirm that the pattern I brought up wasn't intended to distract from the RVS at all.)

Question to the Mod

: How is a lynch decided when there is no majority, the deadline is reached, and two (or more) people are at a tie in # of votes? Sorry if its somewhere in the rules and for some reason I didn't read it properly.

[Doubtful]

While I do love a rousing RVS, perhaps a little RQS (Random Question Stage) is in order...

1. How much experience do you have with Mafia, be it here, on another site or in RL?

I have played 10-20 games in RL, but the set-ups are all fixed. (a.k.a. always 1 RB scum, 1 vanilla scum, 1 vig, 1 doctor, 1 cop, 6 vanilla town or something) This is my first game online.

2. What's your favorite role/alignment to play?

I like to play VT (in RL, I always get blamed if I mess up with a PR...)

3. How do feel about policy lynches? What about lurking?

What are policy lynches? I personally think lurking is never a good strategy. If you lurk, its more scummy than if you talk and pretend you're VT. When people are waiting for a defense from you, lurking won't help your cause and will only delay the game. I've seen that when two people are just about equally scummy, people vote for the one they don't enjoy playing with naturally. So lurking won't help you. Buying time won't win you anything.

4. How do you feel about the RVS?

RVS is necessary... because its what we build off of. It's good in the sense that we get more information to analyze. It's bad in the sense that someone might accidentally L-1 and hammer if they're disinterested in the game, and then people will confuse that action with scummy action. Since Mafia is generally the more exciting role to play, VT's that are disinterested might drop scum-tells just like scums do. However, I like RVS if its played right, for sure.

[Doubtful]

why not ?He was simply out of ideas.
Fos : Zajnet

Hmm... I believe that Zajnet's vote was rather random, considering he said "I know we're out of RVS... but..."

Unvote: Zajnet, Tiny FoS: shadow2222

for not interpreting Zajnet's vote.

[/b]

[Doubtful]

EBWOP: Sorry for the bad formatting.

I meant:

Unvote: Zajnet, Tiny FoS: shadow2222

[Doubtful]

Howdy all, a pleasure to join in this game with you. I'm your IC, which basically means that while like you I'm here to play the game, I'm also here to address any questions anyone might have etc.

A couple things about me... for one I have come off a very busy last few months, and as such for the time being I will be playing only one game at a time. This is my one game, so it will receive all of my attention. My activity on weekends will be spotty at best, Monday through Friday will have the bulk of my posting.

Vote: Doubtful

Not a big fan of the voting in order of mod list thing. Strikes me as an RNG vote pattern, which I hate because it absolves voters of accountability, which IMO defeats the purpose of even random votes. Plus,

For no reason than randomness...

strikes me as off... why defend a random vote?

Introduction, non-random vote, stated gut instinct.

mallowgeno wrote:
I would like to wait in line to replace someone. I'm not sure if I was supposed to post this on the thread or not, but I haven't played a game on here before. I've played on other sites however.


You need to keep your eyes open for replacement slots in the newbie queue, and PM the mod in question that you would like to replace in.

Answering a question

Me=Weird wrote:
I see this game hasn't had a IC post yet


See post 19. I usually refrain from explaining semantics etc. until it is brought up in the game. If someone has questions regarding acronyms or how to do something with text then that's something that can be addressed during the game. It can be confusing and/or bog things down otherwise.

Doubtful wrote:
I was just stating that I had no justification for my vote, and by defending that random vote, I have (tried) to stop all questions about it until further developments . (e.g. if I don't unvote and don't reply)


Wanting to prevent anyone from questioning your votes, no matter how random, is scummy. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as I see what you're saying. Just know that all votes are liable to be questioned and examined, so no need to be defensive. Only scum need be overly defensive of their actions. And I know that the voting order wasn't your (it seemed rather organic, I'll look at that again) idea, I was just expressing my distaste for it.

Zajnet wrote:
lol are we seriously applying WIFOM to the randomness of the RVS? well... this will be an interesting game.


See post 32. RV's can and often will come up later in the game. There's information in every action, and even "random" votes can offer some insight later in the game.

Stating the reason not many explanations are given (no questions asked). Then explaining why scum are usually naturally more defensive compared to town. Then saying that information can be extracted from RV's

While I do love a rousing RVS, perhaps a little RQS (Random Question Stage) is in order...

1. How much experience do you have with Mafia, be it here, on another site or in RL?

2. What's your favorite role/alignment to play?

3. How do feel about policy lynches? What about lurking?

4. How do you feel about the RVS?

Questioning... getting a feel for the players as the forum is near-dead

UnLoved wrote:
Um, what is a VT?


Vanilla Townie, a townie with no special abilities such as a Cop or Doctor.

Explanation

I appreciate the answers so far. Gives people a picture of who they're playing with... I just hoped that some discussion would be born from them.

I'm about to start my horrid weekend work shit, so posting will be spotty for the next two days. This is not a V/LA, I promise at least a post a day, but just know that Saturday and Sunday represent 28 hours of my work week. I hope to see some activity to respond to when I have the chance.

Once again begs for discussion... . Also giving information about scarce on-line times

UnLoved wrote:
So, what shall we do now?


Find scum! Very Happy If I get some good sleep I'll post in the morning, barring that in the evening for sure.

Stating the obvious... and once again stating on-line times.

shadow2222 wrote:
why not ?He was simply out of ideas.


Well, this is a quick "hey I'm here" post. Nothing really to comment on, and I'm close to out of ideas on how to get things rolling. I'm insanely tired and a bit drunk, but hey, I warned you guys about weekends.

And I actually like my RV... I do hereby pronounce it a random vote no longer. Proper English be damned.

I would like to see more activity, especially out of Me=Wierd.

Once again continuing non-annoying rant about activity, and stating that the RV isn't one.

Conclusion:

Throughout the posting, startransmission emphasized activity. However, he never did make a random vote, while in his last post he stated that he has. His only vote (against me) was based on gut instinct, and not randomness.

If there's no activity, one of Me=Weird, UnLoved, or Doubtful would be lynched (depending on last second votes to save oneself) However, the two votes on all three people are random (except startransmission's gut instinct which he claims to be random). Scum want a random vote... so by wanting activity he is less likely to be scum.

In addition, scum normally do not make votes based on gut instinct, because people might do the same to them. Scum want no-lynch or random lynch, so they'll vote randomly. I think startransmission's mistake with the RV vs. Gut Instinct might just be a small one, and I cannot see scum making that mistake, for fear of someone pointing it out. Scum would recheck their last vote and explanation, and try to be similar to town. Town would want, in contrast, to act differently.

For the previous reasons, I personally think startransmission is a VT. He wants to pick out the scum by eccentricity.

[Doubtful]

[sarcasm]Yes, I'm mafia. Vote:shadow2222 Need to kill the person that found me out !!!![/sarcasm]

I won't RC right now, but even if I were mafia I would still RC town...

Oh and that non-bolded vote wasn't serious...

So direct response to your random question:

NO.

[Doubtful]

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

[Doubtful]

Gah,

I've lost the game around 18 times because of these posts...

I would think that UnLoved is a jester, trying to develop hate with the location thing... but there are no jesters in the game.

Well I'll

Vote: UnLoved

And see where that gets us...

I know this is a perfect example of a bandwagon (L-3 to L-2), but with the little activity going on, I think this is the best choice as of now.

I just want to see something regarding the lack of productive posting by UnLoved...

because of the following.

Hello everyone. I shall start the RVS, I suppose.

Vote: Viral Maze for not confirming yet.

Random vote... well not really.

Um, what is a VT?

startransmission wrote:
While I do love a rousing RVS, perhaps a little RQS (Random Question Stage) is in order...

1. How much experience do you have with Mafia, be it here, on another site or in RL?

2. What's your favorite role/alignment to play?

3. How do feel about policy lynches? What about lurking?

4. How do you feel about the RVS?


1. I've played 5 games, won 4/5 of them.

2. My favorite role to play is scum. Twisted Evil But I've only been scum once in my past games. Sad

3. I don't feel anything about policy lynches, as in most of my games, we have not needed to do that. Let's hope this game doesn't become inactive enough for us to policy lynch. Lurking can be good, or bad. It's always good to lurk a little if you haven't posted in a while. Otherwise, someone could misread posts and say something wrong.

4. Uhh, I don't see much else to do in the beginning of the game, so I'm all for RVS. Smile

Answering questions... good to lurk when you've been inactive for a while? Help the town analyze is better... because you have the viewpoint of the first-time reader of many posts, and can get a better gut-instinct. I think this answer is rather scummy... because lurking a little will only hurt town.

So, what shall we do now?

Random, pointless question.

Zajnet wrote:
UnLoved wrote:
So, what shall we do now?


Unvote, Vote: UnLoved for making me lose the game. I know we're kinda sorta out of the RVS, but that can't go unpunished.


Ah, I lost the game. I forgot about my location until now. ^_^

I'd like to unvote: Me=Weird since he has confirmed. Very Happy

Unvoting a RV... but the reason is off? You don't unvote because the person you voted for confirmed. You don't even RV on someone that hasn't confirmed yet !
In all honesty, unvoting an RV should be based on evidence that the person is town, not no evidence. You've just erased all participation in the RV because of this vote...

Conclusion

Well it is self-explanatory...

Can you give me real reasons that you unvoted and your backing of the lurking comment?

[Doubtful]

UnLoved's vote was definitely NOT random.

She selected Viral Maze for not being active. That's NOT a random vote.

And yet in her first post she claims that it is a random vote.

In addition, her UNVOTE was even less random, for the exact opposite reason.

It's not a molehill, I just selected one person at random (with a lot of posts) and asked 2 questions. I would've done the same with startransmission... but so far he seems rather VTish, because of his eccentricities. Mafia is a game of deduction... you have to make a mountain out of 100 grams of sand !

[Doubtful]

EBWOP:

I knew I sort of supported lurking in my previous post. My point is: If you lurk and don't answer questions asked, that's different from lurking because of boringness. I can't find much reason to speak when people are having an argument with no clear winner (WIFOM...?)

[Doubtful]

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason.

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

I just noticed something...

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

Its called random for a reason. Random =/= obscure and pointless reasons.

Tiny FoS: Zajnet

And if you haven't noticed, I unvoted Zajnet when I saw that there was nothing suspicious about him, compared to others. Now I FoS because something feels wrong about Zajnet's interpretation of RVS.

Are you saying that Mafia can be unvoted by just complying with the NON-RANDOM reason stated by the supposedly RV'er? I'm looking at a Mafia win on day 3 with Zajnet's strategies... you've taken a step back and failed to participate in the RVS as well. At this rate solution = no lynch = mafia get a lynch = we lose ground and gain no info. True, RVS is supposed to be fun, but if you're voting for a bad reason, its worse than voting for no reason.

[Doubtful]

Sorry, by "lurking" I meant taking a few minutes to read through all the posts you have missed if you were inactive, BEFORE you just go ahead and make a post.

I don't see that I have backed off of my lurking comment.

And I'm not a big fan of randomly voting without stating an equally random reason.

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason. If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

Ah, I think we might have differing definitions of "random." In an RVS, I never completely vote randomly. I might vote someone for their username (that I can transform into some sort of joke), or for their vote on someone else.

For example, if Person X votes "Toast," I would then vote Person X because

I LOVE TOAST

. In short, I believe that logical fallacies shouldn't be taken so seriously in RVS's.

And in non-random voting situations, I don't think voting someone for being inactive is that bad of a policy lynch. But yes, not a valid reason at this time. But that wasn't really the reason I voted Me=Weird. >.>

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason.

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

I just noticed something...

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

Its called random for a reason. Random =/= obscure and pointless reasons.

Tiny FoS: Zajnet

And if you haven't noticed, I unvoted Zajnet when I saw that there was nothing suspicious about him, compared to others. Now I FoS because something feels wrong about Zajnet's interpretation of RVS.

Are you saying that Mafia can be unvoted by just complying with the NON-RANDOM reason stated by the supposedly RV'er? I'm looking at a Mafia win on day 3 with Zajnet's strategies... you've taken a step back and failed to participate in the RVS as well. At this rate solution = no lynch = mafia get a lynch = we lose ground and gain no info. True, RVS is supposed to be fun, but if you're voting for a bad reason, its worse than voting for no reason.

I'm sorry if you're used to rolling a D12 and voting for that person, but on the site where I've been playing mafia our random votes are for stupid, yet somewhat actual, reasons. For example, someone voted me and FoS'd someone else because we were both from Texas and therefore must be a cult. This isn't "random," and its also not serious.

So in my mafia experience, random == obscure and pointless reasons.

Understandable points...

The flaw I still see in your argument is:

The "unvoting" part. WHY WHY WHY would you unvote when that reason is refuted? RVS is for a purpose, and I don't see you two fulfilling that purpose. You won't get any information from unvoting an obscure and pointless reason.

Though it might just be nature of play... which I have not taken into consideration yet.

As for the lurking thing, sorry for the misinterpretation.

I conclude:

Unvote, UnFoS:Zajnet

Also, shadow, I'm just pointing out things in posts to get this game going. Do you have exact quotes of where I displayed scummy behaviour?

In addition, I have no reason to be ashamed. I asked two questions, awaited a response, and gave reasons that these are serious points.

[Doubtful]

EBWOP: Sorry, I didn't see the last question.

[nonsarcasm]I'm in Eastern Time Zone[/nonsarcasm]

[Doubtful]

Understandable points...

The flaw I still see in your argument is:

The "unvoting" part. WHY WHY WHY would you unvote when that reason is refuted? RVS is for a purpose, and I don't see you two fulfilling that purpose. You won't get any information from unvoting an obscure and pointless reason.

Though it might just be nature of play... which I have not taken into consideration yet.

The only purpose I see in RVS is generating healthy discussion like this.

As for the lurking thing, sorry for the misinterpretation.

Nah, I think it was my misinterpretation of lurking.

I live on the west coast of the US. That is, GMT -8.

And is waaaaay to aggressive with girls.Shame on you.

Hehe, thanks. ^_^

Is it just me, or have I posted double of any other person... (not including my fail double / triple posts because of not reading the thread)

I'm just trying to get the discussion going. I know because I post so much there's a higher chance of me accidentally dropping a scum-tell even if I'm town.

Since there's not much to say, and I'm still waiting for shadow to give his response to my question (on where I displayed scummy behavior)

In addition, I'm at L-2...

If you have any objections to my logic speak up. Just don't vote me for no reason other than random and reasons you won't state.

[Doubtful]

shadow2222, I know what you're saying. I know I had been sensitive about some things, but I hoped that that sensitivity will start a discussion, which it has. Even you wanted some discussion... and the only reason discussion was born was because of my rants on different people.

I will be aggressive when I press for an answer to a question. I will press for an answer for a question when I feel something isn't right. And when I get the answer, I analyze and determine reaction (unvote, continue to argue, etc.)

Yes, scum can do what I'm doing right now. Yes, town can do what I'm doing now. Where does that get us? Scum can play in this game. Town can play in this game. Are you going to vote someone for playing in this game? Scum can answer startransmission's questions. Town can answer startransmission's questions. Are you going to vote someone for answering / not answering startransmission's questions? So are you going to vote someone for asking many questions and pointing out flaws in answers and wanting elaboration?

I'm not saying that leaders can't be scum. I'm saying that your reason is a null-tell.

[Doubtful]

Just a quick note: I won't be here from June 3 to June 11 or at least have limited access. Sorry for short notice of this absence.

Noted

[Doubtful]

shadow2222, since you contribute *so* much information to the discussion, why don't I ask you some questions. Who (other than me) do you find most suspicious? And why?

Do you have any gut instincts? If so, on who?

And finally, how exactly is trying to be a leader a scum-tell?

Yes, scum can do what I'm doing right now. Yes, town can do what I'm doing now. Where does that get us? Scum can play in this game. Town can play in this game. Are you going to vote someone for playing in this game? Scum can answer startransmission's questions. Town can answer startransmission's questions. Are you going to vote someone for answering / not answering startransmission's questions? So are you going to vote someone for asking many questions and pointing out flaws in answers and wanting elaboration?

I'm not saying that leaders can't be scum. I'm saying that your reason is a null-tell.

Sorry if I'm singling you out by any means, but I just want to get some activity going.

[Doubtful]

It's L-1. Let me make a quick comment before my Long Absence starts.

Not saying that this post is a "Give up" post, but I expect a lot of questions (pressure = questions can give clues as to whether I'm scum or not)

I'm VT (well anyone can say that...)

I don't see any other way to defend myself. If this delays the game, erm... I can't do anything about that. I am pretty sure many of you think of me as scum... because of the RVS thing and other questions I asked to get more activity. Unfortunately, I'll be the one with less activity.

Let me give you a list of most to least suspicious though... before I leave.

1. (Most) shadow2222... doesn't answer my questions directly.
2. Zajnet... idk = half-random vote. You don't RV to put someone at L-1. You FoS with your reason.
3. stillawesome (LAL...? He said he'll make a post 2 days ago, and he never did)

1. (Least) UnLoved
2. startransmission
3. idk...

Is it just me, or haven't RealityFan and Me=Weird contributed any logic?

Well once again, if you want to speed this up, hammer at will.

I'll

Vote: shadow2222

as I don't want a random lynch, however this is pure gut instinct.

Ok see you all... gl finding the scum.

[Doubtful]

Also, shadow, I'm just pointing out things in posts to get this game going. Do you have exact quotes of where I displayed scummy behaviour?

And also the question regarding leaders and scumtells...

I know you accused me because I was slightly overaggressive and posted a lot. However, rereading my posts shows no aggression (it may just be the way you interpreted it...), but those reasons aren't strong enough to justify a true non-random vote.

I agree, I did the same thing with UnLoved, but when you do it you ask questions as to where you think I'm suspicious. I haven't seen you do that at all. You just voted and then replied to my questions, giving me the impression that you purposely omitted the questions you can't answer. Yes, this isn't a particularly strong reason either. But... why didn't you unvote me when I was at L-1 and you posted? I just don't understand it at all.

[Doubtful]

Also, shadow, I'm just pointing out things in posts to get this game going. Do you have exact quotes of where I displayed scummy behaviour?

And also the question regarding leaders and scumtells...

I know you accused me because I was slightly overaggressive and posted a lot. However, rereading my posts shows no aggression (it may just be the way you interpreted it...), but those reasons aren't strong enough to justify a true non-random vote.

I agree, I did the same thing with UnLoved, but when you do it you ask questions as to where you think I'm suspicious. I haven't seen you do that at all. You just voted and then replied to my questions, giving me the impression that you purposely omitted the questions you can't answer. Yes, this isn't a particularly strong reason either. But... why didn't you unvote me when I was at L-1 and you posted? I just don't understand it at all.

[Doubtful]

Hello all... I'm finally back.

First of all,

Unvote

after skimming the posts.

I'll read more carefully now...

[Doubtful]

My view on Skunkape.

SKUNKAPE: One of my suspects, has posted very little. How is making you lose the game(curse you!!) scummy? It's annoying, but in no way makes someone more likely to be scum. The most recent post by him: An analysis.
Apologizes for not making the player-by-player analysis he promised. The "so I can continue to be helpful to town" sounds kind of forced and fake, like he's trying to be obviously pro-town or something. It is very unlikely scum would quicklynch day 1, as it would only cause them to be lynched next day. Possibly some more, how to put it, "well, I warned against something scum might do* so I'm confirmed townie". It's hard to describe that.
*Not that they actually would.

Naturally, I'm still suspicious of stillawesome, and thus karma, but will see him play before revoting him. That's right, I'm about to

Unvote.

And with nothing better to do yet (I will post views on other suspects later)

Vote: Skunkape

My comments on your analysis:

His FoS on me was mostly done in a joking manner.
In your posts, you've mentioned three people that promised to post something but didn't do it. I treat that as a null-tell, because RL can happen and both town and scum alike can do that.
Good point about the "I can continue to be helpful to town" part.
Speedlynching in Newbie games can and probably will lead to WIFOM. (

Speedlyncher says: Well I'm a newbie! How would I know what to do? Consequence: Well... he can't be mafia because he's nooby, but that means mafia would do that to make you think that, which makes him mafia, but he's not that stupid, so...

, which is WIFOM)
The last point, warning against something scum might improbably do, is once again a null-tell, because its just giving out facts with no indication to themselves.

Basically, I don't see reasons for you voting Skunkape, other than gut instinct in reading the "I can continue to be helpful to town" part.

Finally, note the following statement:

And with nothing better to do yet (I will post views on other suspects later)

You do realize you don't have to vote, right? At least until you find something really, really scummy.

[Doubtful]

Me=Weird, when you quoted my italicized part, I was stating how it could possibly be WIFOM to speedlynch, and is not a guaranteed scum-tell.

---

Random comment: It seems to be truth that people are posting less and less.

[Doubtful]

I'm going to see if there's any way that Zajnet could not be scum.

Putting him at L-1 without any sort of good reasoning 4 pages into the game? Then switching your vote 2 posts later to a lurker after someone calls you out on it? You getting nervous there, scum?

Good point. Pretty jumpy there.

Here he attacks Doubtful for not understanding the RVS. To me, Doubtful's confusion just came off as newbish, a null tell. You jumping down his neck for it is an obvious example of taking advantage of an easy target.

Yes, Zajnet overreacted towards Doubtful, in my opinion.

I won't be able to make a large post for awhile, real life events are keeping me busy this week, however AurorusVox has dispelled most of my concerns on shadow2222.

So that I can continue to be productive to the town, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

and

Vote:StillAwesome

for lurking.

KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS L-2, ONE MORE VOTE PUTS HIM IN RISK OF BEING SPEEDLYNCHED - Act cautiously

This post sounds really off to me. Off enough to

Vote: Skunkape

. Stating that you're voting a lurker so you can continue to be productive to the town sounds really, really scummy to me. The over dramatization in the last line really makes me think you're scum. If anyone were to speed lynch him and he flipped scum, cool. If he was speedlynched and flipped town, the people that were those last 1 or 2 votes would have some explaining to do. This post reeks of scum trying to distance himself from a wagon on someone he knows to be a townie.

Unvote, Vote: shadow2222

He's posted no content whatsoever. At all.

Yes, you have a point, Zajnet, but you vote someone else for the same reason right after attacking Skunkape. And why blatantly accuse Skunk, and then vote someone else? Just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Vote: Zajnet

I think you've got some 'splaining to do.

Amm... just a note: UnLoved didn't provide any new information about Zajnet at all: The first two points were covered by other people, and I think Zajnet's voting of shadow and then Skunk makes "sense" - it isn't strategical, but a move both scum and town can do. He voted shadow while most of us were voting lurkers. (Skunkape on StillAwesome (passive lurking), and then startransmission on Me=Weird (basically active lurking at that point in time)) He didn't overreact towards me, and though I don't quite believe his putting me at L-1 he miscalculated, he had good reason behind it (the same reason I voted UnLoved in the beginning, for more pressure) I agree, his actions do seem scummy (the L-2 / L-1 mistake was one in particular) but there's a way Zajnet couldn't be scum.

I'm going to see if there's any way that Zajnet could not be scum.

Yes, there is a way. In any case, your introduction to your vote sounds like you're trying to look at all cases, which you should do even in normal analysis. It just doesn't sound right at all.

Huge FoS: UnLoved

And now some questions... to all:

1. Do you believe that there are any scum out of the people that voted for Zajnet?

1.1: If so, who and why?

2. What do you make of startransmission's death as IC? Who do you think would target STM? (In this case, do not worry about scummy behaviour in chat) Do you think him being cop was coincidence and luck, or did he hint towards it in his posting?

3. Draw the line between overreacting and not. (Say a post that was just borderline over-reacting, if any)

[Doubtful]

My answers to my own questions:

1. Yes. Probably at least one. They blended in well, and chose a bandwagon that was bolstered by Zajnet's misposting at times.

1.1. I can't tell yet, but my suspicions are towards UnLoved.

2. I think many people would choose the IC as their first target, simply because he is most experienced. I believe Me=Weird is the top candidate, because STM continuously tries to get Me=Weird to have more activity and it seems rather annoying. I think the cop claim was coincidence - I will do a reread, and evaluate again.

3. My post towards shadow2222 was pretty much borderline.

[Doubtful]

EBWOP:

In #3: I meant my posting and pressuring was pretty much borderline. Other than that I think all posts were just moderate pressuring.

[Doubtful]

It seems that the two players that would be worse of if startransmission were still here are Me=Wierd and Doubtful.

Do you have any quotes of this? I could understand why Me=Weird would be worse off (with STM annoying him frequently), but can you give me some quotes of him or me talking that lead to your suspicions?

And once again, the STM death thing would lead to WIFOM.

[Doubtful]

STM turned from Cop to Neutral Survivor because he made a "bah. Go town" post after he died, which was against the rules.

[Doubtful]

My wagon? First of all that was a wagon based on 2 mistakes I made in my analysis of STM and then UnLoved, and my later unvoting of UnLoved. Refer to this quote:

Doubtful

His early posts I covered pretty well already. The defensiveness over his RV and his noticing of the RV pattern itself I've addressed. After answering my questions he FoS's Shadow for "not interpreting Zajnets vote" (and I should make clear what "the game" is... I know I'm likely missing the obvious). This bit confuses me, I'm not sure why Shadow not interpreting a vote is worthy of suspicion. Then comes a semi-post by post of me, where he considers my RV to be eccentric for not being 100% random, and declares me to be town. I respond to this post later. After answering Shadow2222s ridiculous question with a no, he moves his vote to Unloved. He points out that it puts Unloved at L-2, but seems to feel that because of the low activity it's the best vote. But he bolsters his vote with a semi-post by post of Unloved where he criticizes Unloved's voting and his comments on lurking. The following posts are where my ignorance of what this "game" is hurts me. More arguments follow about the RVS, which lead to an FoS of Zajnet. You all read this stuff for yourselves, but I will say that I like the tone of Doubtful here. He's engaging people, being vocal about his positions, and is active. For his efforts he soon finds himself at L-1, where he claims VT. He gives some last opinions on people in the game, and votes Shadow2222 which I appreciate as his lynch was very possible. I also appreciate his comment on it not being a "give-up" post. All in all, his response under pressure gives me a warm feeling. Doubtful is very low on my scumdar currently, and I find his bandwagon very interesting.

For a direct contradiction of his early suspicions. In my opinion, the early bandwagon was partially because of RVS (with startransmission and stillawesome) and partially because of mistakes (shadow2222 putting me at L-2 because he thinks that I try to make a case out of nothing, and later refuses to elaborate and then Zajnet thinking he was putting me at L-3 and not L-1.)

There was no real backbone on that bandwagon.

[Doubtful]

Wait, what's IIoA? Sorry, not used to terminology in web mafia.

[Doubtful]

Doubtful, when you made your "Huge FoS" you didn't follow up with a vote; why? Also, notice that Karma did vote, and has said that he used your reasons to make his decision on who to lynch - a decision he had made before you had; how do you react to this? Which position on a vote do you feel is the scummiest (first vote, second vote, hammer, L-1, L-2 etc)?

I usually prefer to hold my vote until I have found definite scum - the person I'm FoS'ing can treat my FoS as a vote... (hence why I didn't vote at all other than UnLoved on day 1 to put pressure and shadow2222 because I was going to V/LA)

As for Karma, I'm not sure if he has his own reasons, but I could understand if he voted because I didn't.

The last question I will answer from a non-game biased point of view:

First vote may well be RV, null-tell.
Second vote probably gives some reason (or another RVS), once again null-tell.
L-2: It's once again a null-tell (I got to L-2 during RVS in this game...)
L-1: I think its rather scummy to put someone at L-1. You're basically begging for a claim from them, and unless you and many others are 100% sure the person is scum, L-1 is usually scummy.
Hammer: Slight scum-tell, because it would advantage scum more than town to hammer.

[Doubtful]

Doubtful is one of the two people (not counting me) I'm almost sure is town.

Quoi makes a great point about M=W and wagon hopping - in fact, he did it on this page.

But in his last post, UnLoved provides a huge pile of IIoA in his "wagon analysis" and answers to Doubtful's questions. IIoA is one of the best scumtells for newbie games - newbscumz don't know what to post, usually.

Who's the other person?

[Doubtful]

One town read usually means nothing other than an opinion of someone. Karma hasn't even provided reason that he has a town read on me other than talking about ONE of my posts.

[Doubtful]

Mod: I have V/LA from June 27 to August 3. I think you should replace me.