Newbie 961 - Game Over - Town Victory

[shadow2222]

also,now a more useful question.What time-zone are you in ?

[Doubtful]

Sorry, by "lurking" I meant taking a few minutes to read through all the posts you have missed if you were inactive, BEFORE you just go ahead and make a post.

I don't see that I have backed off of my lurking comment.

And I'm not a big fan of randomly voting without stating an equally random reason.

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason. If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

Ah, I think we might have differing definitions of "random." In an RVS, I never completely vote randomly. I might vote someone for their username (that I can transform into some sort of joke), or for their vote on someone else.

For example, if Person X votes "Toast," I would then vote Person X because

I LOVE TOAST

. In short, I believe that logical fallacies shouldn't be taken so seriously in RVS's.

And in non-random voting situations, I don't think voting someone for being inactive is that bad of a policy lynch. But yes, not a valid reason at this time. But that wasn't really the reason I voted Me=Weird. >.>

Wait... UnLoved and Zajnet, are you talking about the same "THE GAME" I'm thinking about right now?

Yes

I really don't get why you're attacking UnLoved for the reason behind his random vote. It's called random for a reason.

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

, just as UnLoved unvoted Me=Weird when he confirmed. You're making a mountain out of not even a molehill.

I just noticed something...

If UnLoved were to quit making me lose the game, I would unvote him

Its called random for a reason. Random =/= obscure and pointless reasons.

Tiny FoS: Zajnet

And if you haven't noticed, I unvoted Zajnet when I saw that there was nothing suspicious about him, compared to others. Now I FoS because something feels wrong about Zajnet's interpretation of RVS.

Are you saying that Mafia can be unvoted by just complying with the NON-RANDOM reason stated by the supposedly RV'er? I'm looking at a Mafia win on day 3 with Zajnet's strategies... you've taken a step back and failed to participate in the RVS as well. At this rate solution = no lynch = mafia get a lynch = we lose ground and gain no info. True, RVS is supposed to be fun, but if you're voting for a bad reason, its worse than voting for no reason.

I'm sorry if you're used to rolling a D12 and voting for that person, but on the site where I've been playing mafia our random votes are for stupid, yet somewhat actual, reasons. For example, someone voted me and FoS'd someone else because we were both from Texas and therefore must be a cult. This isn't "random," and its also not serious.

So in my mafia experience, random == obscure and pointless reasons.

Understandable points...

The flaw I still see in your argument is:

The "unvoting" part. WHY WHY WHY would you unvote when that reason is refuted? RVS is for a purpose, and I don't see you two fulfilling that purpose. You won't get any information from unvoting an obscure and pointless reason.

Though it might just be nature of play... which I have not taken into consideration yet.

As for the lurking thing, sorry for the misinterpretation.

I conclude:

Unvote, UnFoS:Zajnet

Also, shadow, I'm just pointing out things in posts to get this game going. Do you have exact quotes of where I displayed scummy behaviour?

In addition, I have no reason to be ashamed. I asked two questions, awaited a response, and gave reasons that these are serious points.

[Doubtful]

EBWOP: Sorry, I didn't see the last question.

[nonsarcasm]I'm in Eastern Time Zone[/nonsarcasm]

[UnLoved]

Understandable points...

The flaw I still see in your argument is:

The "unvoting" part. WHY WHY WHY would you unvote when that reason is refuted? RVS is for a purpose, and I don't see you two fulfilling that purpose. You won't get any information from unvoting an obscure and pointless reason.

Though it might just be nature of play... which I have not taken into consideration yet.

The only purpose I see in RVS is generating healthy discussion like this.

As for the lurking thing, sorry for the misinterpretation.

Nah, I think it was my misinterpretation of lurking.

I live on the west coast of the US. That is, GMT -8.

And is waaaaay to aggressive with girls.Shame on you.

Hehe, thanks. ^_^

[Doubtful]

Understandable points...

The flaw I still see in your argument is:

The "unvoting" part. WHY WHY WHY would you unvote when that reason is refuted? RVS is for a purpose, and I don't see you two fulfilling that purpose. You won't get any information from unvoting an obscure and pointless reason.

Though it might just be nature of play... which I have not taken into consideration yet.

The only purpose I see in RVS is generating healthy discussion like this.

As for the lurking thing, sorry for the misinterpretation.

Nah, I think it was my misinterpretation of lurking.

I live on the west coast of the US. That is, GMT -8.

And is waaaaay to aggressive with girls.Shame on you.

Hehe, thanks. ^_^

Is it just me, or have I posted double of any other person... (not including my fail double / triple posts because of not reading the thread)

I'm just trying to get the discussion going. I know because I post so much there's a higher chance of me accidentally dropping a scum-tell even if I'm town.

Since there's not much to say, and I'm still waiting for shadow to give his response to my question (on where I displayed scummy behavior)

In addition, I'm at L-2...

If you have any objections to my logic speak up. Just don't vote me for no reason other than random and reasons you won't state.

[shadow2222]

is someone over-sensitive ?My time-zone is GMT+2 as about my reasons.
Its easy.You are way too aggressive.You should chill out.Drink some water or something.If one is too sensitive or aggressive then i might think its a scum trying to become a village leader

[Doubtful]

shadow2222, I know what you're saying. I know I had been sensitive about some things, but I hoped that that sensitivity will start a discussion, which it has. Even you wanted some discussion... and the only reason discussion was born was because of my rants on different people.

I will be aggressive when I press for an answer to a question. I will press for an answer for a question when I feel something isn't right. And when I get the answer, I analyze and determine reaction (unvote, continue to argue, etc.)

Yes, scum can do what I'm doing right now. Yes, town can do what I'm doing now. Where does that get us? Scum can play in this game. Town can play in this game. Are you going to vote someone for playing in this game? Scum can answer startransmission's questions. Town can answer startransmission's questions. Are you going to vote someone for answering / not answering startransmission's questions? So are you going to vote someone for asking many questions and pointing out flaws in answers and wanting elaboration?

I'm not saying that leaders can't be scum. I'm saying that your reason is a null-tell.

[startransmission]

Conclusion:

Throughout the posting, startransmission emphasized activity. However, he never did make a random vote, while in his last post he stated that he has. His only vote (against me) was based on gut instinct, and not randomness.

That's not entirely true. My vote for you was random in that I had no clue as to your alignment, and I had no reason to vote for you specifically. However, I did find one thing you said a bit off, and wanting to avoid the voting order that had formed I chose to vote for you. So yes, not entirely random, but for all intents and purposes...random.

If there's no activity, one of Me=Weird, UnLoved, or Doubtful would be lynched (depending on last second votes to save oneself) However, the two votes on all three people are random (except startransmission's gut instinct which he claims to be random). Scum want a random vote... so by wanting activity he is less likely to be scum.

While I appreciate that you feel that my wanting more town discussion makes me likelier to be town, that's not always the case. And I can almost guarantee you (and certainly hope) that by deadline/lynch the votes that are placed will be not at all random.

In addition, scum normally do not make votes based on gut instinct, because people might do the same to them. Scum want no-lynch or random lynch, so they'll vote randomly. I think startransmission's mistake with the RV vs. Gut Instinct might just be a small one, and I cannot see scum making that mistake, for fear of someone pointing it out. Scum would recheck their last vote and explanation, and try to be similar to town. Town would want, in contrast, to act differently.

I hate to cover this again, but what mistake did I make? As I said earlier, when I voted for you I had no clue as to what your alignment was. I did not vote for you because I thought that you were scum.

For the previous reasons, I personally think startransmission is a VT. He wants to pick out the scum by eccentricity.

I'm going to try to pick out the scum by using tried and true methods of questioning, pressuring, and discussing.

i have new random question .Please answer honestly.
Are you mafia in this game ?

I'm not sure what to make of this question. It's fluff, and rather useless.

I don't have time at the moment to get into post 66 and beyond, but I will this evening. In the meantime...

I would like to see more activity, especially out of Me=Wierd.

[CSL]

The Fourth Vote Count of Day One

Doubtful (3) stillawesome, startransmission, shadow2222
startransmission (1) RealityFan
UnLoved (2) skunkape, Zajnet
skunkape (1) Me=Weird
Not Voting: Doubtful, UnLoved

With 9 alive, the quota is 5

If deadline were to hit now, Doubtful would be executed. The deadline is currently set for Wednesday, June 16th @ 9:00pm EST.

Doubtful is V/LA from June 3rd thru June 11th

No one is prod-eligible as of this post.

~Doubtful is at L-2

[Me=Weird]

Sorry, should have said V/LA. STM, you call post 19 a IC post? It's not very...ICish. Will do a detailed reread later today.

[UnLoved]

I

unvoted

, CSL.

[Doubtful]

Just a quick note: I won't be here from June 3 to June 11 or at least have limited access. Sorry for short notice of this absence.

Noted

[UnLoved]

So in my mafia experience, random == obscure and pointless reasons.

This is the same for me.

Unvote

Vote : Doubtful

Best lead right now.He tries to make a case out of nothing.

He deemed my vote on Me=Weird unorthodox for RVS. I'm not saying that this is a completely reasonable reason to vote for me; I'm just letting you know that Doubtful didn't state no reason for voting for me. Maybe you hadn't read his post.

About the discussion on Doubtful's aggressiveness, let's make the definition of "defensive" clear. Defending yourself is alright. Being overly defensive can be a scum-tell. There's a difference.

I'm saying this because in a mafia game I had played a long time ago, we got into a MAJOR discussion about what defensiveness meant. There were many misunderstandings, and time was wasted. I think that discussing Doubtful's aggressiveness could go in this direction, so I'm talking about defensiveness now to avoid a waste of time.

also,now a more useful question.What time-zone are you in ?

Hm, how is this useful? Maybe you want to know where we live?

Quote tags fixed

[UnLoved]

EBWOP: Thanks, mod!

[Zajnet]

I'm just trying to get the discussion going. I know because I post so much there's a higher chance of me accidentally dropping a scum-tell even if I'm town.

There's also a higher chance of you accidentally dropping a scum-tell if you're scum. But discussing post counts is usually WIFOM unless you can back it up with meta-evidence, which none of us really have enough finished games to us. What I mean by that is something along the lines of:
Person A posted 20%, 15%, and 22% of the game's posts the three times he has been scum, but only 4%, 4%, 6%, 10%, and 7% the five times he has been town, all in 9p games.

also,now a more useful question.What time-zone are you in ?

US Central (GMT-6)

[Skunkape]

I'm Eastern (GMT-5).

I think the defensiveness and aggressiveness is neither here nor there, as it's mainly random votes and attempts to lure out scumtells, and I think that overactivity is not necessarily a sign of scummishness, however by putting an individual in the spotlight, it is natural they will come under more scrutiny.

Some of shadow2222's posts and actions seem strange to me, not to the point of being convinced, but they do not sit well in my gut. Starting with the joke about whether someone is mafia, and then the vote to put Doubtful at L-2 (without any more accurate explanation than over-aggressiveness and a joke about being brash), followed immediately by a seemingly idle question about timezones, I have a general bad feeling about him.

For these reasons, I'm going to

Unvote, Vote shadow2222

[stillawesome]

I spent the whole weekend plumbing and doing stupid videogame crap. Oops. Will make a nice, juicy post tonight.

[shadow2222]

its not idle.....it allows us to know exactly when one is usually busy

[Doubtful]

shadow2222, since you contribute *so* much information to the discussion, why don't I ask you some questions. Who (other than me) do you find most suspicious? And why?

Do you have any gut instincts? If so, on who?

And finally, how exactly is trying to be a leader a scum-tell?

Yes, scum can do what I'm doing right now. Yes, town can do what I'm doing now. Where does that get us? Scum can play in this game. Town can play in this game. Are you going to vote someone for playing in this game? Scum can answer startransmission's questions. Town can answer startransmission's questions. Are you going to vote someone for answering / not answering startransmission's questions? So are you going to vote someone for asking many questions and pointing out flaws in answers and wanting elaboration?

I'm not saying that leaders can't be scum. I'm saying that your reason is a null-tell.

Sorry if I'm singling you out by any means, but I just want to get some activity going.

[Me=Weird]

I usually get to post after this site says it's 5 o'clock. Sometimes not for longer, and sometimes in the morning. More coming later, probably.

[CSL]

How was everyone's Memorial Day weekend?

Checked for prods this morning, and I'm happy to report that everyone's last post was within 72 hours ago. Good job! Keep it up!

Doubtful is exempt from prods until the 11th. (72 hour period drags into V/LA timetable for him)

[shadow2222]

Doubtful i will answer.
Nobody,there's not enough ''evidence'' and i have no gut instincts

[Zajnet]

So in my mafia experience, random == obscure and pointless reasons.

This is the same for me.

Unvote

Vote : Doubtful

Best lead right now.He tries to make a case out of nothing.

He deemed my vote on Me=Weird unorthodox for RVS. I'm not saying that this is a completely reasonable reason to vote for me; I'm just letting you know that Doubtful didn't state no reason for voting for me. Maybe you hadn't read his post.

About the discussion on Doubtful's aggressiveness, let's make the definition of "defensive" clear. Defending yourself is alright. Being overly defensive can be a scum-tell. There's a difference.

I'm saying this because in a mafia game I had played a long time ago, we got into a MAJOR discussion about what defensiveness meant. There were many misunderstandings, and time was wasted. I think that discussing Doubtful's aggressiveness could go in this direction, so I'm talking about defensiveness now to avoid a waste of time.

also,now a more useful question.What time-zone are you in ?

Hm, how is this useful? Maybe you want to know where we live?

Quote tags fixed

This post makes me think UnLoved is town.

Doubtful idk about, he could just be town with a confused view of RVS, or he could be scum trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. I feel good with an

Unvote, Vote: Doubtful

for now. I'm also going to

FoS: shadow2222

because's been lurking in plain sight, that is, making no active contributions despite posting often enough.

[startransmission]

Hey guys, just got off work and have the day off tomorrow, so I'll have more time to get into things. Let me relax a bit and I'll throw up a post tonight.

[Doubtful]

It's L-1. Let me make a quick comment before my Long Absence starts.

Not saying that this post is a "Give up" post, but I expect a lot of questions (pressure = questions can give clues as to whether I'm scum or not)

I'm VT (well anyone can say that...)

I don't see any other way to defend myself. If this delays the game, erm... I can't do anything about that. I am pretty sure many of you think of me as scum... because of the RVS thing and other questions I asked to get more activity. Unfortunately, I'll be the one with less activity.

Let me give you a list of most to least suspicious though... before I leave.

1. (Most) shadow2222... doesn't answer my questions directly.
2. Zajnet... idk = half-random vote. You don't RV to put someone at L-1. You FoS with your reason.
3. stillawesome (LAL...? He said he'll make a post 2 days ago, and he never did)

1. (Least) UnLoved
2. startransmission
3. idk...

Is it just me, or haven't RealityFan and Me=Weird contributed any logic?

Well once again, if you want to speed this up, hammer at will.

I'll

Vote: shadow2222

as I don't want a random lynch, however this is pure gut instinct.

Ok see you all... gl finding the scum.