Star Wars Mafia (Game Over)

[d3x]

I'll try to respond to everything tomorrow.

[danakillsu]

I think I'm at L-1. I'll claim, then support my claim, then answer post 919. I'm Biggs Darklighter, Alliance Pilot (One-Shot Busdriver). I was able to switch any two players any one night so that the night actions that target one player instead target the other. (The reason it's one shot is because the Alliance is low on fuel, or so I am told). Anyhow, I didn't need to breadcrumb because SoG accidentally did it for me. He has a lot of posts on the subject, but mainly his iso post 31. He said he did not TARGET THC last night. Why did he put it this way even though we know for a fact that he did kill THC? Because that night, I switched THC and farside. I think anyone who believes it's between me and d3x should see clearly that he should be the one lynched, since all he has is a VT claim with no support.
And about post 919, it seems a bit ridiculous that you want me to say again that I was wrong. I was saying you calling my vote a blatant bandwagon vote wasn't backed up very well. I now think it was backed up well, although not well enough for it to be true.

[Kthxbye]

*kthxbye takes out his wallet and purchases dana's p1002*

Unvote

I'm at a loss of what to do next to be honest. I was gonna re-vote d3x and just go with my gut, but logic got in the way. My gut says d3x's posts aren't coming from honest d3x. My logic says both d3x and dana wagons happened rather too quickly for them to be fueled by townies. I do realize that we have approximately 3 scum left, but with a max of 2 on one side and 1 on the other, odds are the team with 2 aren't both on the 1 scum left from the other side's wagon. If all 3 happen to fueling one wagon, it would obviously mean that wagon was on a townie so.....

Next step I'm gonna take (and I'd suggest the rest of the townies do the same) is to go back and pick up the weakest reasons for joining either wagon. I also remember one person saying something to the effect that they didn't think either person was scum but I'm too tired to go back and look right now (just got off a 13 hour work shift...you understand). I'm thinking that comment might have been a slip up by scum who already knows neither is on him team. Anyway, that's all for now.

[Kthxbye]

Oh, and dana...

"I think anyone who believes it's between me and d3x should see clearly that he should be the one lynched, since all he has is a VT claim with no support."

That's just ridiculous. If your claim is true, and I believe it is for now, then you're just a VT now as well. This part gives me pause to be honest, but I'd like to hear what others think on the subject before I get back on either wagon (if I do at all).

[Kast]

@Dana-
Interesting claim. It is plausible, but I want to hear some answers.

He said he did not TARGET THC last night. Why did he put it this way even though we know for a fact that he did kill THC? Because that night, I switched THC and farside.

I thought he put it this way because admitting to targetting THC would be tantamount to admitting he is scum.

-Why did you target THC and FS?
--Your claim would mean that FS's bounty (probably via Scum mafia) was intended for THC. This seems a bit odd; why would Jabba's group place a bounty on a confirmed town?

-What is the flavor tie between your role and your ability?

[danakillsu]

That's just ridiculous. If your claim is true, and I believe it is for now, then you're just a VT now as well

Well of course, but I have something to back it up with because I made sure to have something ready as proof. I think d3x found out too late that he was going to have to claim to come up with anything other than VT.

Why did you target THC and FS?

I was thinking that Farside was just a VT, and so I thought it would be best if those who wanted THC (a mason) dead just killed Farside. Instead it ended up being the other way around. You might ask why I didn't switch THC with a scummy player, but I really had no scum candidates at the time.

Your claim would mean that FS's bounty (probably via Scum mafia) was intended for THC. This seems a bit odd; why would Jabba's group place a bounty on a confirmed town?

Two possibilites.
1) The bounty didn't count as a night action.
2) The bounty was placed on farside, switched to THC, and then switched back because THC died.
I don't really know how this happened, of course. All I did was choose my targets. If I claimed to know exactly what went wrong, I'd be lying scum.

[danakillsu]

-What is the flavor tie between your role and your ability?
_________________

Oh yeah, and this. I have enough fuel to fly to a nearby planet and return but that's it. So I draw the conclusion that the idea is that I'm transporting a player from my planet to a nearby one and returning with a different player that was on that planet. Is that what you were looking for?

[Kdub]

Vote Count

d3x (3)

- AlmasterGM, danakillsu, Dragon Phoenix

wolframnhart (0)

-

ooba (0)

-

Kast (0)

-

Toon Fighter (2)

- Scott Brosius, Slicey

Dragon Phoenix (0)

-

Slicey (0)

-

LynchMePls (0)

-

AlmasterGM (1)

- ooba

Scott Brosius (0)

-

danakillsu (6)

- Kast, d3x, bv310, wolframnhart, Toon Fighter, BlazezRb

BlazezRb (0)

-

Kthxbye (0)

-

bv310 (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- LynchMePls, Kthxbye

14 votes available, 8 votes needed to lynch

Deadline is June 3, ~ 7 pm PDT

[LimMePls]

This is likely my last post before V/LA. I'm buying the dana claim. Makes since both flavor wise and with the events of the game. I also think we have better targets, given recent analysis and events.

UnFOS: Toon Fighter
Vote: Toon Fighter
FOS: AGM

It looks like AGM will be replaced, so I'd prefer not to lynch without hearing something from him, particularly since I see TF as much scummier.

[bv310]

Back from V/LA. I don't think I believe Dana's claim, but it seems viable enough. Not sure why you'd choose to sacrifice Farside for THC instead of someone who wasn't contributing at that point. My vote feels better now.

[d3x]

Ok, responding to ooba's full breakdown...

Three (or Four if scott is not palpatine) confirmed town on scumdar which had four people.

And? Let's assume that we didn't get investigations on both GFs {if there is a 2nd one} and SB really is Town. What does that mean? Are you telling me that you've never been completely wrong on a Scum List before?

the last part of the post gives me the vibe that if he’s scum – he is empire scum.

I'm not following you. Can you be a bit more specific on what I'm supposed to have done?

Still don’t get how this is a scumslip. Could you explin this please?

It had to do with WS not knowing the Town WinCon. I had just finished a game where a very similar instance got me caught as Scum. I didn't realize that it was posted for all to see in the OP.

Do not understand the switch back to scott.

Someone {I believe it was farside} pointed out that the WinCon was in the OP, thus I returned to my original suspect. I did however, keep suspicion on him b/c I didn't fully like it and thought it may have been a Slip of some kind.

d3x ~ Scott – Based on him saying “Thank you scum” but not following up with any vote or pressure

I was already Voting him. I don't get this point.

Fos’s AGM for what I percieve to be lurking. Why ignore TF who had not posted for an even greater duration. Links to either TF or AlGm

I don't really remember specifically what that was about. The prod request was for VRK though, not AGM.

Very strong d3x ~ SoG. Wants to lynch Scott over SoG. I find the fact that he does not mention SoG at all to be most suspicious.

Mmkay. I felt Scott was more suspicious than sog.

“I'd be down for sog or Scott, but I'm not really for a QuickLynch here.“. Just think its relevant because of a little theory I have about Day three.

Something you'd like to share with the rest of us Amazing Larry? {Pee-Wee quote, couldn't help myself}

1) Why the need to comment on Kast’s one line?. Further pointing to the fact that if d3x is scum, he is empire scum.

Which one liner? The 'nice job' one? I think it was a valid question. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever got a response.

2) DP ~ d3x. Comments on DP’s ISOs but asks him why he choose that particular order instead of the more pertinent point – Town on dana, scott, toon, FCG, dana. Null on kthx. Scummy on nobody?

He hadn't done the other 1/2 of the player list.

3) “It should look like 'I don't want us to QuickLynch a potentially Town aligned PR considering he's been tracked performing a Night Action that he doesn't want to be outted'. “ – Hmm SoG just said he did not track anyone – could also point to VI (at that point before the claim).

I'm not following. sog didn't Claim tracker. Why would he then say that he Tracked someone?

4) Mentions AGM at the end without any previous mention

AGM had been active Lurking this entire game. Aside from the fact that I have mentioned him before, I don't see how stating my suspicion on someone who hasn't been posting is relevant.

My scum read is based on links with Slicey and day three play

You're building a case against me based on connections of a player that hasn't flipped and isn't even under suspicion? Weird.

I think the fact that FS suspected Almaster to be scum and dana to be town makes me think that AlGm has more chances of being the last Jabba scum than dana.

I don't get this at all. farside wasn't an investigative Role. Given we know that her opinion wasn't based on Scum motivations, but that doesn't mean her suspicions are on target. Also, she had RC as Town.

---------------------

I don't know that I buy dan's Claim outright, but I think we can let bv investigate him tonight and Lynch TF or AGM in his place.

UnVote/Vote:ToonFighter

Right now, the TF case is stronger than the AGM case, imo.

[Dragon Phoenix]

-What is the flavor tie between your role and your ability?
_________________

Oh yeah, and this. I have enough fuel to fly to a nearby planet and return but that's it. So I draw the conclusion that the idea is that I'm transporting a player from my planet to a nearby one and returning with a different player that was on that planet. Is that what you were looking for?

I don't like your reasoning about your choice (picking a confirmed town instead of any other player as potential kill target simply does not make sense).

But I really don't buy thiss flavour. Why would the other player be on that planet? It simply does not make sense, and I think you screwed up your claim.

Unvote, vote danakillsu

[Dragon Phoenix]

I know I am skipping some questions asked of me, I'll address those later.

[Dragon Phoenix]

@DP- Are you planning on answering my p965?

Not particularly, I though these were pretty strong accusations, and I try to get a gut feeling from the response in such a case. My gut did not suggest you were town.


I thought there was also a question somewhere about why I chose the sequence of my players' in iso review. There was not specific reasoning behind it, I started with a few easy ones, and got stuck due to time pressure before I finished.

[danakillsu]

I don't like your reasoning about your choice (picking a confirmed town instead of any other player as potential kill target simply does not make sense).

Look. I could have chosen another player, but they could very well have been someone better than farside, someone with an actual PR, which I was pretty sure farside didn't have. I thought I would be able to downgrade the mafia groups' choice of THC, a mason, to a VT.

But I really don't buy thiss flavour. Why would the other player be on that planet? It simply does not make sense, and I think you screwed up your claim.

This is stupid. Why wouldn't the other player be on the planet I'm flying to? That's just the idea behind my Night Action. It's not supposed to be something that would always happen in real life. That's the point of flavor. It's supposed to be coincidental. If you were to try to say that I screwed up my claim, this would not be a great way to try to prove it. This is just like asking why a busdriver is able to switch two players during the night.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Flavor should fit the flavor of the theme. This one does not IMO. Vote stays.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I don't like your reasoning about your choice (picking a confirmed town instead of any other player as potential kill target simply does not make sense).

Look. I could have chosen another player, but they could very well have been someone better than farside, someone with an actual PR, which I was pretty sure farside didn't have. I thought I would be able to downgrade the mafia groups' choice of THC, a mason, to a VT.

I don't like this either. It is lke a vig saying, you know what, I better kill a townie because I might hit a power role otherwise. That's simply awful play.

[danakillsu]

It is lke a vig saying, you know what, I better kill a townie because I might hit a power role otherwise. That's simply awful play.

Sort of, but not really. I wasn't actually planning on farside dying, although as I said in my claim post, I did want her dead instead of THC, if it came down to it. The difference is that if the scum tried to roleblock or do some sort of investigation on THC to see if he actually was a mason, they wouldn't accomplish anything. Also, I guess I didn't know for 100% sure that farside was a townie, since I didn't necessarily trust the investigation result. What all this is saying is that I didn't pull the trigger on farside, or even attempt to. I just realized that if worst came to worst, I didn't want THC dead, and I knew for sure that someone else would be better dead than THC: farside. Is it at all unclear what I'm saying, because it's obvious when you understand what I did that it had a very good chance of helping the town a lot. But the best laid plans of mice and men...

[danakillsu]

Wow, proofreading helps a lot.
EBWOP:The second-to-last sentence should read: Is it at all unclear what I'm saying? Because it's obvious that what I did had a very good chance of helping the town a lot when you understand what I was thinking.

[ooba]

@ooba: The reason you vote AGM over dana is farside's opinion? If so, then why doesn't Toon Fighter make a much better lynch? Toon Fighter has been on pretty much EVERYONE's scum list, including CMAR and farside (in fact, farside's scum, not just leaning scum), but he doesn't appear to even make your list. Why do you think TF isn't scum?

Two reasons for AGM over dana:
1) While I can see RC defending dana, I cannot see dana linking from his side to either WS or RC. AlGm's bv wagon vote without waiting for a CMAR reply is a strong defense.
2) The farside kill - I think Jabba group killed her because she caught all of em. If dana was in the team, I think they would have let her live.

I have TF pegged as a VI.

Regarding dana's claim:
- I believe it because I was expecting to see a town redirector in the game. (Primarily based on SoG and WS's comments on redirection). If you look at the exchange closely, you can see SoG was accusing WS of either being a redirector or having a redirector on their team. WS replies seem to indicate that he was just using apparent redirection or framer roles as a reason for bv to get a guilt on him; I do not get the vibe that he had a redirector on his team. Therefore, SoG had acted like he had been redirected and WS was acting like he had no clue - this can only mean a town redirector. (Or bus driver as in this case)
- I don't like the flavor part. Only point in favor here is that if the mod wanted to introduce a busdriver into the game, a fighterpilot makes more sense than other roles.

Point 1 and reasons mentioned at the start of the post make me think AGM is our best bet for Jabba scum.

[Kast]

SoG had acted like he had been redirected

This part I don't agree with. SoG acted like WS was full of it and making up completely random crap to stay alive. If he had acted like he was redirected, he would have given himself away.

@Dana-
-Speculating that the bounty was not a night action seems very counter-intuitive. That's like assuming the kills announced at the beginning of the day aren't night kills. It is possible (ie. delayed kills from previous time period), but without some evidence to suggest it, seems odd.

-I asked about flavor because I don't think yours fits perfectly. Biggs (as Ooba has pointed out) is a fighter pilot. More specifically, he was an X-Wing pilot. X-Wing's don't carry passengers.

It's possible that he could fly a shuttle or light transport craft, and I was expecting you to post something related to that.

@DP's switch to Dana-
The post strikes me as a bit odd. Gut says DP is trying to preempt a growing TF wagon. For now, I still think it is better to lynch Dana, but I would be very happy to see a TF flip and, if Imperial Scum, DP stands as a very probably potential buddy.

[danakillsu]

-Speculating that the bounty was not a night action seems very counter-intuitive. That's like assuming the kills announced at the beginning of the day aren't night kills. It is possible (ie. delayed kills from previous time period), but without some evidence to suggest it, seems odd.

That it is possible is all I'm saying. It does admittedly seem somewhat odd, but from my point of view, the evidence to suggest it is the same reason I realized it was possible.

I asked about flavor because I don't think yours fits perfectly. Biggs (as Ooba has pointed out) is a fighter pilot. More specifically, he was an X-Wing pilot. X-Wing's don't carry passengers.

It's true that they don't normally, but I'm sure they COULD...

It's possible that he could fly a shuttle or light transport craft, and I was expecting you to post something related to that.

I'm glad you thought about this, but I can't tell you any more than I have. Do you guys all have really complex flavor PM's? (It's rhetorical, don't answer if you don't want to) I sure don't. I'm not going to just make up something that's not in my PM and have it shot down by whatever people who know Star Wars better than I do.

[d3x]

Annoying count

AGM should be getting replaced, but there's been no confirmation
Blaze is all over the place and not making sense
Scott has become 'confirmed' and has since started coasting hardcore
Slicey hasn't posted since Saturday

Mod

- Prod Slicey plz?
TF was prodded Sunday and has posted since but is officially Active Lurking
wolf should've gotten back from V/LA Tuesday to my understanding

There's a lot of Lurking going on {I'm not saying I'm completely innocent in this} and some of it is pretty freaking blatant {TF, Scott, pre-replacement AGM}. We're down to a week until deadline, there's a holiday between now and then, and we have/will have 2 V/LA players between now and then.

TF should be our Lynch for the Day. The case against him is strong and his disappearing act should weigh heavily. We can deal with dan tomorrow {preferably after a bv investigation}.

Also of note

You can cry OMGUS if you want, but ooba has built circumstantial/connective cases against a few players {namely me and Slicey/k7} while prefering to Vote a Lurker. This doesn't make sense and doesn't sit well with me.

[wolframnhart]

Im here, sorry it's been a bad time for me getting with these games, F work is all i gotta say lOl.

I don't completely find dana's role claim truthful. So far every person we have been about to lynch has had a bad claim with flavor and each bad claim was a scum. Not once do i see him saying anything hint wise that he was a one shot bus driver, and he never questioned that i can see CMAR's claim that farside is innocent, which now she very well is up in the air because if he bussed THC and farside then CMAR's investigation was really on THC. The whole thing is just off putting.

[d3x]

So far every person we have been about to lynch has had a bad claim with flavor and each bad claim was a scum.

Are you including me in that batch?

I've said that I'm not sold on his Claim, but it's not really

that

hard to believe. We have a way to check it out and I say we use that, bv willing. What are your thoughts on the other candidates {myself included}?