Newbie 960 - Game Over

[Ren]

ok im gonna answer the questions:

the lies are considered good by myself because i had something to hide- my experience

How is lieing about your experience a good thing?

in other games, i notice the most pro ppl get pwned first and 2nd nights, so im not wanting to be too pro.

[sarcasm]If the people who do the best get pwned then maybe we should all act like noobs and not do anything. That will help us find scum.[/end sarcasm]

cops and doctors and vigiliantes lie about their role

No PRs should ever lie about their role in newbie games. It would throw off the towns info and would make it hard for us to believe them if they need to claim for real later on. If you are a PR and someone asks your role you don't lie to them just don't tell them you are a PR. Just because some townies need to keep secrets does not mean they need to lie.

and i believe the truth is that im experienced?

Could you please answer truthfully how many games you have played online?

---

Vote Count

Day 1; 9 alive, 5 to lynch

andrew94 (2) - Titiboo, Memnon
Titiboo (2) - NomDePlume, mb53

Yet to vote (5) - andrew94, Equinox, Kenman, Ren, wolframnhart

[Equinox]

he lies are considered good by myself because i had something to hide- my experience
in other games, i notice the most pro ppl get pwned first and 2nd nights, so im not wanting to be too pro.

Now I see what you mean by "pwned." Dying on this site isn't really a bad thing as long as you leave information for the other townies. Find who you think is scum, say why you think they're scum, and push for their lynch. Accuse multiple people if you believe more than one player is suspicious. That way, if you die, we will be able to use your analysis to get scum.

cops and doctors and vigiliantes lie about their role

It's true that cops and doctors don't just say what they are when anybody asks, but they shouldn't lie. You don't have to answer questions about your role if they are sudden, mainly because we don't have reasons to ask you unless you are about to be lynched.

im just thinking its sus that that guy had to go to work, so making discussion

People have lives. What's so suspicious about it?

[andrew94]

if i dont answer someones question, they gonna be like 'LURKER, anti town guy etc pls answer question or we lynch u etc'.

i was just trying to get some discussion going on,.


@ ren ur 1st question is already answered by my second quote

and ur 3rd thing is conflicting ' you dont saty ur role, but u dont lie' i find it hard to accomplise this unless i dont answer, then ur gonna be like 'oi dont skim through pages, anti town'


following ur advice, i am not answering the last question

[inHimshallibe]

I will replace wolframnhart; Kenman has also asked to be replaced when he picked up my prod. The replacements should be in the thread by the end of the weekend. Vote count coming.

[Ren]

if i dont answer someones question, they gonna be like 'LURKER, anti town guy etc pls answer question or we lynch u etc'.

Most questions should be answered and they should be answered truthfully. The only secret you should keep as town is your role. You don't need to hide your experience level, your age, or your time zone.

@ ren ur 1st question is already answered by my second quote

We read your entire post before replying and still don't understand how lying about your role is in any way, shape, or form a good thing. Especially in your case hiding your exp and "acting" like a noob you haven't contributed much on your own SURE there is no way that scum is going to nightkill you but is that really such a good thing? All that means is that we get left with an unhelpful townie while all the decent players get killed off. Another thing is if we don't lynch you and you don't step up your game we have to constantly think about possibly wasting a lynch on you. Survival of the town as a whole is more important than any of us individually.

So.. are you trying to say that your lie is "good" cause it will help you to survive while the town rots because of it? So far the only useful thing you have done is inadvertedly stirred up conversation around you.

and ur 3rd thing is conflicting ' you dont saty ur role, but u dont lie' i find it hard to accomplise this unless i dont answer, then ur gonna be like 'oi dont skim through pages, anti town'

It's very easy to not say your role and not lie.. Do you remember when you asked me what my role is?

following ur advice, i am not answering the last question

We never advized you to not answer the question. Just because townies need to keep their role a secret doesn't mean they have to lie and keep a lot of secrets. It only makes you look shady and untrustworthy.

[Ren]

EBWOP:
"We read your entire post before replying and still don't understand how lying about your

EXPERIENCE

is in any way, shape, or form a good thing."

Sry about that kind of in a hurry cause we have to go to work now.

[andrew94]

it only makes me shady and untrustworthy is because the only questions are directed at me.

i played 5 games, happy?

[Equinox]

andrew94, you're being very defensive. Are the questions offending you? If they are, how are they offending you? What kinds of questions would you rather answer?

if i dont answer someones question, they gonna be like 'LURKER, anti town guy etc pls answer question or we lynch u etc'.

It's not just answering questions. As townie, you will also need to read other people's posts carefully and look for inconsistencies, slips, etc. Your #1 job is to find the mafia. Answering questions is secondary (but still important).

and ur 3rd thing is conflicting ' you dont saty ur role, but u dont lie' i find it hard to accomplise this unless i dont answer, then ur gonna be like 'oi dont skim through pages, anti town'

We rarely ask you for your role, so there is no need to lie. When somebody does ask and you feel there is no reason to, you can ask them why they're asking you for your role. Also, if someone just asked you for your role, and there's no reason to do so, other people will jump in and ask them as well (like what mb53 did when you demanded Ren's role).

I accused you of skimming because you could not have missed the questions we were asking you unless you weren't reading. There were too many; you should have seen at least one. When you asked me to post the questions again, I knew that you skimmed through the thread, and you weren't going to read through the thread to look for the questions. That tells me you're not paying attention, which is anti-town.

it only makes me shady and untrustworthy is because the only questions are directed at me.

If we were happy with your responses, we would have stopped asking the questions. We keep asking you because we feel you're being "shady and untrustworthy," and we want you to show us we can trust you.

The questions are a way to show us you are town. No matter how aggressive we're being with them, we are asking you because we want to be able to trust you and move on with the game.

i played 5 games, happy?

See? That wasn't so bad.

i was just trying to get some discussion going on,.

So you did not find him suspicious; you just wanted to generate discussion? Were you trying to get the questions away from you?

---

andrew94: I will not ask you any more questions after this post, so please answer the ones I've asked you in this post to the best of your ability. I want you to show me you are town.

Game-wise, I feel this serial questioning of andrew94 is distracting, and given the level of participation, it's alienating other players. We can always lynch him later if we feel he's acting like scum. In the meantime, I'd like to move on. We'll get better results faster that way.

Ren: Leaving andrew94 aside, who else do you think is acting scummy?

Memnon: What do you think of NomDePlume's case against Titiboo?

[NomDePlume]

Game-wise, I feel this serial questioning of andrew94 is distracting, and given the level of participation, it's alienating other players. We can always lynch him later if we feel he's acting like scum. In the meantime, I'd like to move on. We'll get better results faster that way.

I was going to post something along these lines, I agree with this. If you all continue to bombard Andrew with questions to the exclusion of looking at anyone else we'll end up lynching Andrew simply because we don't have another option - not because he's the best choice.

It seems like the game is played differently on the other sites Andrew has frequented, you have pointed out the difference but further pressing the issue seems pointless to me.

[Memnon]

Memnon: What do you think of NomDePlume's case against Titiboo?

I think it is pretty weak, seeing as Titiboo has posted a total of 5 times, and never more than 2 lines or so, but therein lies the problem. He is lurking a LOT. Or is he just not coming back? I hope not. Then we will need three replacements.

Still, NDP's case on Titiboo is better than the one on andrew. I guess I have to admit that.

I was gonna say we need more activity, but if three people have to be replaced, I guess it can't be helped.

[andrew94]

equinox said: It's not just answering questions. As townie, you will also need to read other people's posts carefully and look for inconsistencies, slips, etc. Your #1 job is to find the mafia. Answering questions is secondary (but still important).

errr every1 is just questioning me there are NO SLIPS.
and i thought he was suspicious but not anymore because he actually asked for a replacement?

[Equinox]

errr every1 is just questioning me there are NO SLIPS.

Of course you would say there are no slips. However, whether or not you have made any slips is not for you to determine; it's for everyone else to find.

I think it is pretty weak, seeing as Titiboo has posted a total of 5 times, and never more than 2 lines or so, but therein lies the problem. He is lurking a LOT. Or is he just not coming back? I hope not. Then we will need three replacements.

Titiboo has been lurking up until his last post. It might be a newb tell, though, since it could just be that the game is overwhelming and he's trying to get his bearings before jumping into the fray.

If you all continue to bombard Andrew with questions to the exclusion of looking at anyone else we'll end up lynching Andrew simply because we don't have another option - not because he's the best choice.

Heh. I've been tunneling him with the questions because I wanted to get some detailed responses out of him, but he's getting more and more defensive and guarded with his answers. Those responses are interesting. Now that you've mentioned it, it might be the other site's meta. He's mentioned that "everyone lies," so there would be reason to hide things. On the other hand, he could just be perceiving all the questions as harassment and is therefore giving us an emotional response in return. Either way, I agree, no more questions.

Logically speaking, his responses are a null tell, but my gut keeps saying there's something wrong with the defensiveness. I think I need to take a step back and let it all settle before I finally make a determination.

I still find andrew suspicious, and will be watching him like I would watch someone I am voting for.

What do you think of his latest responses? Has all the questioning been helpful or harmful to our main objective of getting scum?

---

Okay, so I finally got around to putting all the RQS responses together and then looking at them. I should have done this first thing instead of going off on a wild

scum

goose chase. xD

I suck at writing open-ended questions, so assume all the yes/no questions have an accompanying tag question.

6. What do you think about fence-sitters, the people who don't have a position either way? Is it an anti-town thing to do? Why or why not?

6. Yes, it is anti-town. They don't help discussion along very much. I tend to watch those people a bit more.

I agree here, though sometimes it can move discussion along pretty well. If other players start talking about the fence-sitting itself, then fingers can point and votes can fly... or at least I can dream of such a scenario happening.

Do you think fence-sitting is more of a play style or more a newb/null/scum tell?

5. What is your preferred method of scum hunting? Why?

Our favorite method of scumhunting is at the end of the game when there is more information to work with such as in our last game scum got caught because of a combination of scum fakeclaiming cop and a massclaim won the game for town due to setup analysis.

Hmm... massclaim. When do you think is the right time to massclaim? When it's time to claim, should it be done in a particular order, or should everyone just claim as they go?

5. I jump around a lot (as you can already see by the spread sheet). That is just how I find scum. I also look for contradictions a lot.

Do you feel more scum are caught through pressure (voting, FoSes), or through questioning and analyses?

[andrew94]

what i meant was because all you are asking is questions, it is very hard to find YOUR slips

[Equinox]

what i meant was because all you are asking is questions, it is very hard to find YOUR slips

It's true that if all I'm doing is asking questions, then it's very difficult to find slips. It's not impossible, though. Look at the kinds of questions I'm asking and ask yourself if it's something the mafia might ask. Remember, the mafia need to confuse the town, so the questions scum will ask are different than those town will ask.

Hmm... since there's nobody else here, I'll ask you one so we can get some discussion going.

Who do you think is mafia?

[Memnon]

@Everyone

Name your thoughts on the most likely scum pair in your mind. We need something to talk about. Even if it's a big stretch, tell us.

Equinox, because she is leading the entire thread, and I'm uncomfortable having to rely on one person.

Titiboo because he has been the most lurkerish.

These are very very weak, so take them with a grain of salt.

[NomDePlume]

I agree we need to kick start this somehow but until replacements for three positions arrive it's going to be difficult. Some players just haven't contributed enough for any sort of read: Wolf for instance has done some IC duty but really hasn't given us any clues one way or the other.

My case against Titiboo looks a bit thinner with him being replaced: a lack of activity due to him flaking is just as likely as scummy lurking. I still don't like how he used his RVS to lazily stick on Andrew whilst not contributing anything, I think that really scummy - an attempt to get early position on an easy lynch.

My other suspect would be Ren. The whole tunneling on Andrew to the exclusion of everyone else has been hampering us, when I asked for an explanation of Andrew's scummy intentions he unvoted without explaining them but then continued the one-dimensional attack.

[mb53]

Sorry, have to replace out, have real life stuff going on

[Equinox]

It looks like we might need four replacements now. If Titiboo comes back, we'll need three.

I think we have at least one scum somewhere in the sea of replacements. I don't like picking out likely scum when we have only half a game to work with, so no specific suspects.

Equinox, because she is leading the entire thread, and I'm uncomfortable having to rely on one person.

I'm uncomfortable with watching activity level drop, though it looks like we're getting somewhere now. Do you think it would be better for town if I stepped back and let someone else take the stand?

My other suspect would be Ren. The whole tunneling on Andrew to the exclusion of everyone else has been hampering us, when I asked for an explanation of Andrew's scummy intentions he unvoted without explaining them but then continued the one-dimensional attack.

I think Ren is attacking andrew94 for the same reason I've been doing it. Judging from Ren's response to RQS, they like to probe for information, and andrew94 hasn't been providing any despite answering the questions. I'd like to hear from them directly on this point, though, particularly the unvote.

...you know, it would be hilarious if it turned out andrew94 + Ren were a scum team.

Just a thought.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

I hope everything works out for you, mb53. Good luck!

[Memnon]

It looks like we might need four replacements now. If Titiboo comes back, we'll need three.

I think we have at least one scum somewhere in the sea of replacements. I don't like picking out likely scum when we have only half a game to work with, so no specific suspects.

Yeah...this is getting ridiculous. I don't think we can make any real progress until some replacements get here.

Equinox, because she is leading the entire thread, and I'm uncomfortable having to rely on one person.

I'm uncomfortable with watching activity level drop, though it looks like we're getting somewhere now. Do you think it would be better for town if I stepped back and let someone else take the stand?

No not at all. You were active so I actually expected you to defend yourself. I can't attack say Kenman for instance.

My other suspect would be Ren. The whole tunneling on Andrew to the exclusion of everyone else has been hampering us, when I asked for an explanation of Andrew's scummy intentions he unvoted without explaining them but then continued the one-dimensional attack.

I think Ren is attacking andrew94 for the same reason I've been doing it. Judging from Ren's response to RQS, they like to probe for information, and andrew94 hasn't been providing any despite answering the questions. I'd like to hear from them directly on this point, though, particularly the unvote.

...you know, it would be hilarious if it turned out andrew94 + Ren were a scum team.

Just a thought.

This.

[inHimshallibe]

Please welcome our stupendous replacements, I Am Innocent (for Kenman) and Sotty7 (for wolframnhart)!

I have posted need for replacement for mb53. We'll get this sorted out yet, folks.

Now, about that vote count... I laid it down here somewhere...

[Memnon]

Thank God. Dude, you're my hero.

[inHimshallibe]

Vote Count

Day 1; 9 alive, 5 to lynch

andrew94 (2) - Titiboo, Memnon
Titiboo (2) - NomDePlume, mb53

Yet to vote (5) - andrew94, Equinox, I Am Innocent, Ren, Sotty7


Titiboo has until noon CST tomorrow, and then will also be replaced.

[Equinox]

Welcome, I Am Innocent and Sotty7. Let's get this game back up and running.

[Sotty7]

Hey all. The thread isn't too long so I should be caught up before I head off BBQing on this holiday. Good stuff.