Mini #73: Prosaic Mafia (The End)

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For story purposes, I believe, our noble mod is starting with day rather than night, and the NPC death is his way of doing so. We still have eleven people left, in any case.

With MeMe's absence in this game, I shall continue her time-honored tradition and

vote Primoris

Welcome to mafiascum!

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Well, the tradition is to vote for someone in their first game at mafiascum as a sort of welcome present. I wasn't paying any attention to who Phoebus had voted for, I was back looking at the queue to remember who I had seen with only 4 posts.

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Yeah, only because I haven't figured out what you have to do to get custom tags, or else mine would say "King of Monsters" or something.

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Well, in the interest of actually sparking some real direction, I'm going to

unvote Primoris

vote Phoebus

His immediate "jump off the bandwagon" vote almost seemed like he was trying TOO hard to be dis-associated with whatever bandwagon happened to form. It could even have been that Phoebus voted for his scummy buddy Primoris to start with, and then had to leap off the bandwagon before lynching one of his team members.

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Man, Primoris, you and Phoebus are all about defending each other, aren't you?

No Mafia would put votes four, five, and six on a player to lynch them. Not quickly, anyways, or without discussion. It would be too blatant a move for them. The last thing Mafia want to do is be seen as acting as a group. I would think Phoebus would know that. If it happened in a game that he played in recently, I would hope that the town would see how blatant a move that really is, and mop up in short order.

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Maybe so, bigbenwd ... maybe so. That's probably because I try hard to get Mafia scum in EVERY game I play. If you don't think that Phoebus's defensiveness (and then RE-voting of Primoris) is suspicious, there's nothing I can do to help you.

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All right. For starters, Phoebus, I would suggest you not killing ANYONE until we figure out who is nasty and who isn't. We don't know how many killing parties we have, so we don't have any way to judge what you're telling us if you kill someone tonight.

I am, however, sad to admit that I agree with Phoebus. Bigbenwd is all OVER the page. With three votes on him already,

unvote Phoebus
vote bigbenwd

will give him four. The "I'm a new player argument" isn't holding water; what's your REAL deal? Even new players know that voting no lynch is only good for the Mafia.

Let him talk.

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What I said earlier, Stewie. There's no way to prove OR disprove Phoebus's claim currently, because we have no idea of the real pattern of killers. Thus, the best play is to have Phoebus not kill anyone. It allows us to determine how many killing parties we have; once we do that, we can determine how best to use Phoebus if we have to at all.

Right now, I'm leaning towards believing Phoebus. Again, it'll depend on how many killing parties we have. If it's just Mafia and no SK, then a one-shot vigilante makes sense. If it's Mafia and SK, then we'd most likely have a real vigilante that would come out and dispute Phoebus's claim.

I'd personally hate to see someone waste an investigation on Phoebus, though. Just wanted to put that out there.

(And if you ever want to see how bigbenwd got to 131 posts with this being his first game, search all his posts. *giggle* It's ... enlightening?)

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OK, who wants to be top dog and put the last vote on bigbenwd? Yeesh.

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Um, I truly believe that if you were "pro-town" and "powerless" that a mod would have no problem confirming, in fact, that you are a vanilla townie, and would not continue to say that you were a powerless, pro-town role with an unknown name. And since no one has bothered to unvote you, that says to me that none of the people voting you currently are willing to confirm that there are actually pro-town, powerless non-townies in this game.

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Stewie: Was there anything in your PM that might have required you to send Norinel a PM asking if you were really just a townie?

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Yes, it's true, I am not a normal townie.

I wish I knew what the makeup of the killing parties was.

The thing about bigbenwd's claim, and subsequent apologizing for his claim, is that, even if this is your first Mafia game EVER, you should know what a townie is. Whether it says, "You're Joe Schmo, you're pro-town but you have no extra abilities" or "You're a townie", generic townies are the bread and butter of these games. They are FAR from the un-understandable role that bigbenwd is making it out to be.

In any case, I feel like I'm the only one making any accusations. Who else do you people find suspicious, then, if you don't think bigbenwd is?

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OK, tehgood just moved directly to the top of my "acting suspicious" pile. It seems AWFULLY convenient that, now that Stewie has come out proclaiming a similar role description, an entire day of discussion passes and THEN tehgood announces his role description is ALSO similar. Seems like an awful easy way to slip into the "innocent" ranks. Lemme look over the thread and I'll probably move on tehgood tomorrow morning.

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Yes, yes, I'm suspicious, bla bla, yes, yes, hunting people down, bla bla, yes, yes.

Of COURSE I'm picking up on every little suspicious thing. The rest of you would be content to sit on your thumbs all day long, randomly voting people, if I wasn't making some waves. So sue me. At least I'm trying, and I'm putting forth my real suspicions, unlike the rest of you who are either OMGUS voting or riding my coattails.

There's no attention on me for me to divert, bigbenwd. The only attention is the attention that YOU are trying to put on ME.

tehgood is attempting the same thing. Seeing a chance to clear himself and move suspicion onto someone else, he came in to agree with Stewie about the role, cites four people getting the same general PM format when it was actually three (bigbenwd, Stewie, and himself), and then votes for Dutchman for reasons related to his "clearing" of bigbenwd, when Dutchman is voting for apparently completely different reasons.

I think you're all scum. And I still think bigbenwd is scum, and now I think that tehgood is his partner-in-crime.

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[Talitha mode]

Oh, AND!

Breakdown: I've given reasons for every one of my votes that are legitimate suspicions. For you to claim that I'm "throwin around suspicions with no backing" is patently ridiculous.

Oh AND again!

Yes, bigbenwd, we know you think I'm suspicious, I mean, you DID vote for me ... there's no reason to continually post and JUST say you're suspicious of me. We get it.

[/Talitha]

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i went with massive when he voted pheobus, but then after the next few people he decided to lynch withought much evidence [...]

The next person I "decided to lynch", as you say, was YOU! So of course you're going to claim it was "without much evidence." And I've been still voting you while examining what I think of tehgood, and I'm becoming more and more happy with my vote.

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My major issue with lynching Phoebus right now is this: If he IS a one-shot vigilante, then there may come a time in the future when we need his ability in order to have a shot at winning the game. The Mafia, of course, know this - I believe vigilante is one of the most dangerous roles to Mafia because it alters the symmetry of the game and essentially gives the town a second "lynch". Allowing the Mafia (possibly) to railroad us into lynching our vigilante is just going to make them happy and us miserable down the road.

As for bigbenwd, he's caught a stroke of luck and managed to get himself away from being low man on the totem pole, putting the fourth vote on Phoebus. So, bigbenwd, when exactly did Breakdown start making sense to you, enough for you to vote Phoebus? Was it at the top of page 4 where Breakdown first went back to his vote for Phoebus? Or did you have to work through your suspicion of me before you realized that you believed what Breakdown was saying?

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The thing is, it's near impossible to tell about bigbenwd. He votes in random patterns, he interjects accusations against people with no reasons attached to them ... Sure, you COULD say that he's not doing anything out of the ordinary, but WE DON'T KNOW. This is his first game here; everything else outside this thread is just window-dressing and doesn't really apply.

Let me just say this: for 90% of the players here, if they were doing what bigbenwd is doing, I'd vote for them.

I've already said I think that tehgood's "agreement" of bigbenwd's role-claim was suspicious. Problem is ... everyone is suspicious. I can go either way; if a substantial bandwagon moves against tehgood and there's no good roleclaim associated with it, then I could be persuaded to switch. But until then, I'm on bigbenwd all the way.

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Hrm. I'm considering possibly switching my vote to tehgood. He confirm-voted in big bold letters in two posts within a post of each other. Maybe now would be a good time to give people a better reason not to vote for you?

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Why the heck would anyone kill Breakdown? That seems arbitrary.

Right now, and I hate to say this, but Talitha seems most suspicious to me. I did a re-read, and when she joined the game, it seemed like she just jumped on a reason, ANY reason to stay away from the bigbenwd bandwagon and move on tehgood. The problem is, I also find tehgood suspicious (and I think I was the one who outlined the whole "my PM too" reason for tehgood's suspiciosity in the first place), so I'm in "one or the other" mode now.

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I wasn't trying to point fingers at you, really. I was just looking to see what tehgood would say in response to me giving him an outlet. Hook, line, and sinker, as they say? I'd vote tehgood but I think he's close enough (three by my count).

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Then why hint about how it was just your role PM that was similar to bigbenwd's, and not your role? (Top of this page for those interested.)

vote tehgood

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Well, I know no one will follow me on this one, but

vote Talitha

You are very lackadaisical this game. On day one, you picked up on a suggested "guilty" reason for someone not under the gun and stayed away from the lynch of bigbenwd. Then you picked up the same reason on day two and we put away tehgood based on it and his overacting. Now you're saying you have NO suspicious parties? I know you're smarter than to have NO suspicious parties - even if it was ME, at least I'd think you were paying attention. But you're just not working at all at this game.

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I just went and looked at the front page, and realized this is the endgame. There are 8 people left, and if you assume normal set-up, there should be three Mafia. Since there haven't been any SK kills as of yet (and NO multiple-kill nights), there's no reason to assume there is an SK at all.

If we lynch a townie today, the Mafia win tomorrow morning.

It's a near-impossible win situation, but we really need to think this through and lynch three scum in a row to win. Yikes. I think it's getting close to mass-reveal time and let's figure out who's left. What does everyone else think?

Meanwhile, everyone look at your votes and seriously re-think your suspicions. Anyone with even ONE vote could be subject to a Mafia pile-on. That being said

unvote Talitha

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Yoko: Did you make last night's night-choice, or did gashlycrumb?

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Well, we know Yoko's not switched (because he (?) got bigbenwd as innocent, which we know as true) and we know he's not paranoid since he's gotten innocents.

You know, if Phoebus had come on and said "obviously this is a Mafia ploy, they can seal the game here by 'being a cop'," then I would have had serious doubts. But his defense of "he's obviously paranoid, a real cop needs to check him out" just doesn't ring as something that a real townie would want.

Let me re-iterate. We are in the endgame. If we screw this up, we lose. Period. And there's still too much unknown.

There's no way for me to refute gashly/Yoko's claim and information. Checking bigbenwd on night one seems random, but checking me night two makes sense (I was a big proponent of the bigbenwd bandwagon, who gashly knew was innocent) and Yoko's explained night three. The only question I'd have (and I don't think it will be answered) is: Why didn't gashly take a more active part in defending bigbenwd? All gashly did was say that "the role claim was believable" and move on to something else - no hints about being the cop, no indication that there was other info involved in the decision.

It looks like it's either "lynch Phoebus" or "lynch Yoko" to me ... I just can't decide which is which.

ewp: Yoko's insinuation that the sanity was spelled out in the role PM now makes me more suspicious of Yoko ... it's almost as if he's attempting any last-ditch effort to get to the lynch as quick as possible.

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I'm just not sure about any of this. If I believe Yoko, then I essentially have four people that I think are innocent. The game can't have shifted from "I can't pick out anyone that's innocent" to "It's three of these four people" just by Yoko revealing one guilty person. (That's the only criteria I have, since we all know now that bigbenwd was innocent, and I've known I was innocent the whole time.)

There's still five other people in the game that we know ZERO about: Talitha, Darkblade, Stewie, Primoris, and Dutchman. Six, if you want to count me. There's not enough information for me to say that Yoko isn't pulling a Lepton.

Think about it: If the Mafia gets us to lynch an innocent, then they win.

Now, granted, no one's come along and popped Phoebus. He's sat at four for at least a day. That means either all three Mafia are on the bandwagon already (if he's innocent), or they're resisting in the hopes that Phoebus can be saved (if he's guilty). The most likely of those two is the former, because the first means that not only is Yoko guilty, but so are two of Darkblade, Stewie, and Dutchman (if I had to guess, I'd say Darkblade and Stewie) have to be guilty as well. Add in to the fact that Phoebus didn't get indignant when a cop came out and pointed fingers, didn't vote for Yoko, and tried WAY too hard to explain it off as a sanity issue.

I think the more likely situation is that Phoebus is scum ... I'm just not near enough sure to actually vote.

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Or you can ignore all that.