Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[Zang]

##Vote: Fishythefish

[Fishythefish]

It's not the rule misunderstanding; it's the way you reacted to what you would have perceived as a total disaster for the town. If you thought that several players had cast votes they couldn't take back, why on earth were you so calm about it?

Self voting during the early game is clearly not claiming scum.

Re: posting during the auction; I was thinking that people who didn't comment much on the auction itself were more likely scum. But reading better, that's really most people. I withdraw that point.

Why are you voting for me?

[Andrius]

Self voting should be discouraged. I don't see how it can actually help the town, or the player at all.
I self-voted my first game and was lynched. I don't self-vote anymore.

I can't tell if flashstorm's big attempt at breaking the game is scum trying to look town or town trying to be all cool. :/

I'm waiting on farside to see what she wanted to say after bidding was done.

[Zang]

It's not the rule misunderstanding; it's the way you reacted to what you would have perceived as a total disaster for the town. If you thought that several players had cast votes they couldn't take back, why on earth were you so calm about it?

because I knew something was wrong.

Self voting during the early game is clearly not claiming scum.

well, not in the RVS but I wasn't sure If there was an actual RVS in this game or if the votes were based on what happened pre-game.

Why are you voting for me?

because your reasons are quickly and badly thought through.

[farside22]

andrius>my big idea failed thanks to computer issues.
Since a player is not claiming to have bought the NK I assume scum.
Fishy why would you assume scum would buy the double vote ability. That is strong but I think scum was focas on those that sold for much higher.
Zang: Why is fishy worthy of a vote?

[Andrius]

Oh. That sucks. Computer issues suck.
I think its safe to assume that, unless they simply haven't been online yet. :/
Can we say that a scum has Cop too?
Unless scum have the Doctor.
Gah. This is a bit more complicated than I thought. lol

[Jack]

What's more complicated than you thought Andrius? What were you thinking before?

[farside22]

Andrius: I not going to WIFOM all the roles that were bought. Some where bought relatively cheap.
I don't want to see a cop or doc outted at this point.

[Andrius]

The concept that roles can go both ways.
I was clearly not looking at this with enough depth. The scum could very well have Doc, Vig, Cop, which would throw a big wrench into the town, especially if we just assume that we have one of those powers, etc.

And claiming doesn't do much good anymore. If scummy_player claims Doc, we lynch him and someone else gets the Doc power. We never really lose PRs, so that's something else to mull over, especially when we're approaching a lynch.

[Andrius]

/ninja'd by farside

@ farside: Outing a Doc is bad strategy, regardless of the game.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Nobody Special ( 2 ) Andrius, Steam-Powered Shovel,
farside22 ( 0 )
Zang ( 1 ) Fishythefish,
Jack ( 1 ) VasudeVa,
SaintKerrigan ( 1 ) farside22,
Zajnet ( 0 )
NavyCherub ( 0 )
VasudeVa ( 0 )
Andrius ( 0 )
Fishythefish ( 4 ) NavyCherub, Jack, Zang,
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 0 )
flashstorm ( 1 ) SaintKerrigan,
Not Voting ( 3 ) Nobody Special, Zajnet, flashstorm,
Total Votes ( 13 )
Deadline: June 14th at 23:00 EDT
With 13 total votes, 7 needed to lynch.

[Jack]

So Zang is the double voter...that seems like a VERY scummy choice for him, knowing Zang.

[Andrius]

Really, Jack? I'd have to look at the votecounts.

[Andrius]

Jack ( 5 ) VasudeVa, Jack, SaintKerrigan, Fishythefish,

Zang can't be Doublevoter. He's not voting for you.

[Jack]

Did you just remember that or did you have some reason for thinking he wasn't the double voter? You sound pretty sure in the first post.

[Andrius]

Nope, I wanted to see what you'd do after I dismissed Zang as x2 Voter.

I think I know who it is though. Just look at the votecounts.

[Jack]

Nope, I wanted to see what you'd do after I dismissed Zang as x2 Voter.

That doesn't make sense. You are saying you checked the vote counts and saw that he wasn't, then pretend like you hadn't and checked to see what I'd say? Why?

[Andrius]

Because I don't know if the Doublevoter is asking to be outed, so.

I don't really want to out him, but its not that hard to see, so.

[Jack]

You're zang's scumbuddy, and that's why you instantly knew he wasn't the double voter.

[Nobody Special]

I think the breaking-plan is a bad idea (and, it's moot now anyway).

I still don';t like Jack.

I've got suspicions about Zang.

This game is hard.

[Zajnet]

Yeah it's pretty obvious who's got the doublevote.

Man I'm getting drunk off this game, so damn much WIFOM. I mean sheesh with 2 mafia groups, abilities that we can't lose and that the scum could have, and only one scum group having a NK.

So... how the hell do we scumhunt? I guess just like normal, but I've never played a game this mechanically different from normal >.>

[Andrius]

Jack, I'm not scum.

I can prove who the Doublevoter is, but I don't really want to out the PR.
Or I can just tell you to go look at the votecounts and find better deductive skills.

[Jack]

Vas is much too quiet this game.

##vote:Vas

[VasudeVa]

I'm here. Not really interested in talking about mechanics that don't really matter/apply yet.

Don't like Jack 136. Vote stays. Could also sway towards an NS vote when I feel like it.

Looking at the vote counts, one of Zang/Jack is the DV. It'll be kind of silly for Jack to lie about being the double voter, but that'll be easily apparent soon enough.

@Jack/Zang: Why buy double voter?

@SPS: Why NS?

[Fishythefish]

Since a player is not claiming to have bought the NK I assume scum.
Fishy why would you assume scum would buy the double vote ability. That is strong but I think scum was focas on those that sold for much higher.

I agree re: NK. Obviously there's still time for a town killer to claim, but if we don't get a claim pretty soon it's safe to assume they are scum.

I think several abilities here are scumtells. Most obviously investigation immunity and the unclaimed NK, but also double vote. The reason for my focus on that is that we can find out who they are.

@Zang: I don't see what you mean by "because you knew something was wrong", in the context of your post about unvoting. Could you try to rephrase that?

Double voter is Jack, being the crossover between the two votecount anomalies. Why did you buy it, Jack?

FoS: VV

. Not talking about the mechanics isn't a problem. But being so desperate to defend yourself that you say the mechanic which just sold some extremely strong abilities doesn't really matter/apply yet is really off.

@Zajnet: in my experience, you don't want to drown in the setup. Scumhunting isn't affected much by all these abilities in unknown places - and it's not really inherently any more confusing than a closed setup. There'll almost certainly be some points where the game mechanic is critical, but until then you'd be well advised not to think too much about it.