NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Unsight]

I'm wary of how nhammen left the Socrates wagon. That was a little too easy. The wagon was fine for nhammen until SGR is replaced by someone who actually talks back. Next thing we see is nhammen shaking his hand and wandering away.

I'm also wondering what the odds of both nhammen and Socrates being on the same scum team are right now. nhammen jumps on the wagon and jumps off at the first available point. If nhammen flips scum down the line, it looks good for Socrates that nhammen was pushing for his lynch. If Socrates gets lynched, flipping scum makes nhammen look good on some level for having started the wagon today. This just seems like a golden situation to make them both look good if the other gets lynched.

[foilist13]

vote: foilist

Post 627 is terrible.

If he flips werewolf, Nhammen DIES!

If there is a cop, he should investigate Serial tonight. (Cop specifically, not Seer. Seer should investigate Nhammen if foilist doesn't flip werewolf, I'm not sure where else if Foilist does flip werewolf. Probably Timeater.)

I rarely insult players, and I don't think I'll start now. However I strongly suggest you read Parama's play before taking anything he says seriously.

As far as my post, if you think it is terrible you need to refute it. I could just as easily say one of your posts was terrible and vote you on that basis. The problem with you voting me without providing any real content is that it gives me, and everyone else, no way to judge you, which is inherently anti-town.

Further, you haven't said my post was scummy, you just said it was terrible. Does that mean scum post or bad play post? In either case, do my other posts follow that pattern? You need to read the thread my friend.

So now you need to explain to me why, based on post 627, I am somehow a better lynch than MS or you for starters.

Something else you should note is that Parama didn't have a single bad thing to say about me until I attacked his nhammen case. Then he jumps on me and has been calling me obvscum since. Oddly, no one else seems to share this sentiment except leafsnail who has been unable to provide any reasons why I should be lynched that I have not refuted to his admission. I will point the posts out to you if you so wish.

Please don't make me take apart Parama's case on me again. If you have one of your own to post, please do, but if you are taking his seriously and going off of it then we can't have a conversation.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Like others, I find it suspicious that animorpherv1 said "I can't keep up, I'm replacing out!", which is a relatively crappy excuse for not playing. I want to suspect him but I'll get attacked maliciously by other people because Seraphim claimed Mason and apprently, we can't suspect Masons and Monks.

Someone give me the right to suspect claimed monks and masons and I will look at vezopiraka, Seraphim/animorpherv1, LynchMePls, and daniel/Faraday more.

@foilist13: What order are you planning on analysis on other people?

Animorpherv1 hasn't contributed anything yet.

@SSBF: If you're concerned about parroting you should add Animorpherv1 to your scum list.

Except one problem. If we suspect the claimed Masons/Monks, we'll be attacked with the "I AM A MASON/MONK, I AM TOWNIE!" excuse that I don't want to hear again.

You know what? Screw that excuse. I need to look at these players that claimed masons/monks more.

[Leafsnail]

Foilist's last post makes me completely comfortable with a foilist bandwagon.

Vote: Foilist

. Look how he never does anything except write long posts about how he's refuted all accusations of being overdefensive. Heck, he completely forgot about me after I unvoted him. And a lovely bit of deflection in the middle there.

I haven't forgotten about you, Midnight's Sorrow.

But we're still left with someone claiming to have roleblocked someone else and in the process leaving us with waaaaay fewer NKs than standard in a game this size. Right? I'm not willing to watch the socrates wagon die down. His is the only lynch that makes sense.

Lowell is a good alternative lynch. This definately looks like scum trying to force a lynch through... or possibly rolefishing for a vig.

In any case, Socrates is holding up well. I don't see any real reason to lynch him.

[Socrates]

Foilist, post 627 is terrible because you spent an entire page calling Parama scummy/stupid and then you avoid voting him and instead vote for the Mislynch Of The Day(tm), a classic scumtell. You have repeatedly waffled between calling Parama scum and calling him dumb and refuse to take a hard stance on him in any way. Even now you decline to meet him head on and instead try to take him out at the knees and discredit him by calling into question his competence while simultaneously suggesting (but not outright saying) that he is scum. You are not interested in Parama's actual alignment, only in making that yapping dog go away.

(For the record, I have experience playing with parama before and he is far from a VI. He has an antagonistic attitude to his posts which make it hard for him to ingratiate himself to others, let alone lead a lynch on another player, but he is a very solid scum hunter.)

I went back and checked who you were voting before this, and it turns out you were voting the previous MOTD (Vez) until it came to light that he was confirmed town, and then at the start of the day today you vote for the next MOTD (my predecessor).

Another interesting thing about you, and this was pretty much the crux of Parama's initial push on you, is that when pressed, you pretty much avoided calling Nhammen scum at all costs, even going so far as to admit to what Nhammen was calling you scum for and then rush to his defense against Parama's case against him, which is an interesting thing for another player to do for another player if they don't have an explicit scum read on the attacker. Yes, defending a town read is an good thing to do, but you explicitly waffle on Nhammen's alignment at the very start of your defense of him (post 597) :

nhammen is throwing his weight around at whatever points he can think of to get himself off the hook. Pro-town behavior? Maybe yes, maybe no.

You are probably scum. You are probably Nhammen's scumbuddy. You should probably be lynched today.

[Socrates]

I'm wary of how nhammen left the Socrates wagon. That was a little too easy. The wagon was fine for nhammen until SGR is replaced by someone who actually talks back. Next thing we see is nhammen shaking his hand and wandering away.

I'm also wondering what the odds of both nhammen and Socrates being on the same scum team are right now. nhammen jumps on the wagon and jumps off at the first available point. If nhammen flips scum down the line, it looks good for Socrates that nhammen was pushing for his lynch. If Socrates gets lynched, flipping scum makes nhammen look good on some level for having started the wagon today. This just seems like a golden situation to make them both look good if the other gets lynched.

I'd like you to do something other than post just enough to justify your current position.

I want your thoughts on these three players:

SerialClergyman
Foilist
Timeater

I want more than "Town" or "Scum". Everything good and bad that you can think of from all three of these players.

[Unsight]

Guys, the NK could easily be an attempt to frame Sevis, though I admit he's pretty scummy.

I would say MS is probably town because of the quick bandwagon but in a 2-faction game who knows?

However SSBF is looking mighty scummy again, trying to push the lynch without giving any real good reasons.

Vote: SSBF

. Why you guys made me change my vote D1, I will never know.

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

What read do you get on MS from his ISO?

What are your thoughts on SGR from his ISO?

And who made your change your vote on Day 1?

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

I don't follow much.
1. I started the SSBF wagon
2. I started the nhammen wagon
3. I had already expressed suspicion of Chrono prior to my vote on him

I'm not a sheep. If you haven't figured this out by now then you're not paying attention.

Just noticed, but Parama never returned to answer the rest of my questions. Way to dodge Parama.

FoS: Parama

[Unsight]

Because a Sevis lynch is

better

right now, IMO.

If he's such a

better

lynch then shouldn't you be pushing it harder than with a tiny 3 line post? It seems more like you're just avoiding the wagons if that's all you're going to say about it.

Still waiting for Pom to answer this one.

[foilist13]

@Leafsnail: Please direct me to any points I haven't answered to your satisfaction.

@SSBF: I'm pretty much taking them as they stand out to me on the list. I'm trying to be sure to get everyone, but obviously that isn't an issue yet.

There is nothing wrong with attacking the masons or monks, they simply have a lower probability of being scum than everyone else. Only vezopiraka is confirmed townie.

@Socrates: Thank you for posting something relevant.

RE: Parama: My experience with him thus far in this game is that he tunnels like no other. He calls people obvscum and stops playing, and insists that his previous cases are the final word on any matter and refuses to refute responses to them. I don't know what experience you've had with him, but mine has been very different.

Now let me explain my positions on the relevant players.

1) Read through the vezo incident and my posts regarding the matter. If you have ANY dispute as to the invalidity of any of what I was saying please bring it to light. You cannot call me scum because I voted for someone who turned out to be town. That is simply not a scum tell.

2) Parama was tunneling nhammen. I thought his case on nhammen was ridiculous, and at the time thought it was scummy. I went through and analyzed it as you saw and found it didn't amount to much of anything. Between that post and my next, I read over his play and found it consistent in his absolute conviction that he had found scum.

/caught scum already

We should be lynching SSBF D1 anyways, I don't see why it's important.

We're lynching you Day 1 but I never said it had to happen quickly. Though if it takes too long I'll be pretty mad.

Guys, I've caught scumbuddies here, can we lynch them?
unvote
Vote: Nhammen
Super Mega HoS: Chronopie
HoS: SGRaaize
HoS: SSBF
FoS: Dr. Robotnik

If there is not a nhammen lynch in the next 24 hours I'm going to scream. Nhammen's post has caught 2 scum.

I'm not changing my vote and I'm not going to because nhammen is scum and letting him off with a claim (which could easily be a scum PR) is weak.

Epic scumslip, Time.

BUT I STILL WANT NHAMMEN LYNCHED.

unvote, vote: nhammen

I think we're forgetting why we're here, guys.
Less pointless talk, more lynching of obvious scum please.

Y'know what. Screw it. unvote, vote: Chronopie
Guys I think he scumslipped right here.

Wait, so foilist, you're saying nhammen's accusations against you are completely valid?

unvote, vote: foilist13
Straight from the horse's mouth, foilist admits to being scum.

Guys, we have a nhammen/foilist scumteam. GG.

nhammen/foilist/chrono scumteam, I already told you guys this

SSBF, your tone is terrible.
The MS-Chrono link you're suggesting is complete nonsense.
And Chrono didn't self-hammer, he was more than dead by then.

SSBF is whatever scum faction that Chrono isn't IMO.

I've already found certain scum, so I won't be doing much of that right now.

This is the pattern of behavior he's exhibited. So when he jumps on me and suddenly I'm the confirmed scum I wasn't all that surprised. That

could

be scum, but I find it unlikely scum would be so aggressive and call so much attention to themselves in such a blatant way. That is WIFOM though, which means he is

either a poor town player or scum

. I can go on about his poor town play if you still aren't convinced. I don't know what his alignment is, nor do I have anyway of interpreting his behavior as to me his behavior is illogical. With that conclusion in mind, what exactly am I supposed to do other than to get the yapping dog to go away?

Another interesting thing about you, and this was pretty much the crux of Parama's initial push on you, is that when pressed, you pretty much avoided calling Nhammen scum at all costs, even going so far as to admit to what Nhammen was calling you scum for and then rush to his defense against Parama's case against him, which is an interesting thing for another player to do for another player if they don't have an explicit scum read on the attacker. Yes, defending a town read is an good thing to do, but you explicitly waffle on Nhammen's alignment at the very start of your defense of him (post 597) :

nhammen is throwing his weight around at whatever points he can think of to get himself off the hook. Pro-town behavior? Maybe yes, maybe no.

You are probably scum. You are probably Nhammen's scumbuddy. You should probably be lynched today.

nhammen is throwing his weight around at whatever points he can think of to get himself off the hook. Pro-town behavior? Maybe yes, maybe no.

Is Parama's case on him actually good? Not a chance in hell.

Now look at that quote you posted in actual context. I've seen plenty of townies exhibit exactly the same behavior I described in nhamen. I looked at Parama's case and found it unsatisfactory as my quote testifies. So do you expect me to think nhammen is scum here? He attacked me based on a misassumption. That is equally poor town play as scum play, and not any more likely to be one or the other. So where exactly am I supposed to think he is scummy?

Now let me clarify something else. At that stage of the game I had a distinctly neutral read on nhammen. I was not defending a town read at all, I was attacking a poor case. The focus was on Parama, not nhammen. There is never a reason to leave a case alone if it is flawed. To do so is starkly anti-town. I don't care at all who the case is on, nor should I. Should I look and say "Oh, Parama is attacking nhammen for his case on me. Sweet, now I'm off the hook. I better leave Parama's case alone so no one pays attention to me?" How is that in any way pro-town?

[Parama]

Unsight, I didn't see your questions in the first place.
First: I didn't ISO MS and I don't plan on it.
Second: I didn't ISO SGR and I don't plan on it.
Third: Chrono was on my scumlist, the wagons for the more obvious scum just never picked up.

[Timeater]

unvote

Ray of Hope: As certain peolple tend to be grouping together, I think once we lynch a scummer it should be fairly easy tracking down the rest of their gang. My opinion at least, from what I've observed so far about how this game has been played. /preempts blase accusations about this being a scummy thing to say

I'm wary of how nhammen left the Socrates wagon. That was a little too easy. The wagon was fine for nhammen until SGR is replaced by someone who actually talks back. Next thing we see is nhammen shaking his hand and wandering away.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

RE: Parama: My experience with him thus far in this game is that he tunnels like no other. He calls people obvscum and stops playing, and insists that his previous cases are the final word on any matter and refuses to refute responses to them. I don't know what experience you've had with him, but mine has been very different.

Can you elaborate further on Parama's character and playstyle?

Foilist, post 627 is terrible because you spent an entire page calling Parama scummy/stupid and then you avoid voting him and instead vote for the Mislynch Of The Day(tm), a classic scumtell. You have repeatedly waffled between calling Parama scum and calling him dumb and refuse to take a hard stance on him in any way. Even now you decline to meet him head on and instead try to take him out at the knees and discredit him by calling into question his competence while simultaneously suggesting (but not outright saying) that he is scum. You are not interested in Parama's actual alignment, only in making that yapping dog go away.

How is mislynching in a gigantic game a "classic scumtell", sir? Do you assign the same scumtell to all the other people who voted Chronopie? Do you assign that tell to me as well?

If he's lying about being town, there's a good chance he lied about blocking SGR, yes? And thus your case would crumble to nothing.

Why would a scummer claim and go for such a brutal gambit early on in a game this big? Is that really a tactically sound decision? What do you feel nhammen's motivations are?

[Unsight]

I'm wary of how nhammen left the Socrates wagon. That was a little too easy. The wagon was fine for nhammen until SGR is replaced by someone who actually talks back. Next thing we see is nhammen shaking his hand and wandering away.

I'm also wondering what the odds of both nhammen and Socrates being on the same scum team are right now. nhammen jumps on the wagon and jumps off at the first available point. If nhammen flips scum down the line, it looks good for Socrates that nhammen was pushing for his lynch. If Socrates gets lynched, flipping scum makes nhammen look good on some level for having started the wagon today. This just seems like a golden situation to make them both look good if the other gets lynched.

I'd like you to do something other than post just enough to justify your current position.

I want your thoughts on these three players:

SerialClergyman
Foilist
Timeater

I want more than "Town" or "Scum". Everything good and bad that you can think of from all three of these players.

SerialClergyman - Good at supporting wagons, bad at starting/finding them. I like his observations and would have a town read on him if not for the nagging feeling that he's doing more tunneling than scumhunting at times.

foilist13 - Put up or shut up style player. I like these kind of players because they typically are a lot of fun to play with. That said, foilist13... lacks teeth. Maybe it was early suspicion on him yesterday as part of the rolefishing nhammen called out, but it feels like someone with his style would be on the offensive more than he is.

Speaking of the rolefishing, I still think it's horrendously bad that Parama was able to tell me that that one post foilist13 I quoted was just "rhetorical questioning" and not blatant rolefishing. I think there's a connection in there somewhere but Parama's pushing of his lynch today just makes it weird. Both strike me as more scummy than towny though.

Timeater - He's a porcupine. You poke him, he pokes you. The reactions to his posts are interesting. It seems some people are more interested in FoS'ing or voting a convenient target than actually asking questions (ie scum hunting). He's a neutral read, but his posts have been more useful than people realize.

[Unsight]

Unsight, I didn't see your questions in the first place.

First: I didn't ISO MS and I don't plan on it.
Second: I didn't ISO SGR and I don't plan on it.
Third: Chrono was on my scumlist, the wagons for the more obvious scum just never picked up.

This is a lie.

Here is my post:

Guys, the NK could easily be an attempt to frame Sevis, though I admit he's pretty scummy.

I would say MS is probably town because of the quick bandwagon but in a 2-faction game who knows?

However SSBF is looking mighty scummy again, trying to push the lynch without giving any real good reasons.

Vote: SSBF

. Why you guys made me change my vote D1, I will never know.

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

What read do you get on MS from his ISO?

What are your thoughts on SGR from his ISO?

And who made your change your vote on Day 1?

You quoted this post here:

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

I don't follow much.
1. I started the SSBF wagon
2. I started the nhammen wagon
3. I had already expressed suspicion of Chrono prior to my vote on him

I'm not a sheep. If you haven't figured this out by now then you're not paying attention.

Do you see what's missing here? The questions.

You saw them and you deleted them before you responded. There is no "I didn't see your questions" because you clearly did.

vote: Parama

[Parama]

No, I didn't see them. I quoted the same post, so what? I am a selective reader. And I answered them now. Your argument is completely ridiculous.

[Parama]

Really, how could you know what I do or don't read? <_<

[LimMePls]

Completely back from V/LA. I haven't seen anything to change my FOS or vote. I'll check in tomorrow.

[Pomegranate]

V/LA until Friday, meant to say this last night.

[foilist13]

Can you elaborate further on Parama's character and playstyle?

I'll do a full player analysis on him. I needed to get to him anyway.

As I see it, Parama is as he would say, a "brickwall." He has an amazing ability to convince himself entirely of whatever is convenient at the moment. Actually, writing that, he seems a lot more scummy that I previously found him

Ok, this is how he responds to criticism, or questions about his arguments.

Oh God Leaf you're really going to make me explain something so obvious? Why are you so concerned with it anyways? For all you know I'm RVSing (I'm not but still <_<)

Read the thread.

If you would read carefully, you'd see the question has already been answered.

LOL chainsaw attacks.

Read the thread.

One decent one:

Seraphim wrote:
Why are the posts you link to scummy?

Nervousness - if you can't see it then you're not reading OH WAIT

Seraphim wrote:
Who cares that his posts were "pointless info about himself that nobody cares about"? It was the pre-confirm stage, how is that scummy?

Trying to detract from the nervousness in his posting - something factual is easier to talk about.

Seraphim wrote:
How is OMGUS scummy?

The reason for one player voting another is that the other player voted for the first. That exclusively = OMGUS = no reason to vote.

His next post is a good response to questioning, but it is too long to post here. It should be noted that I acknowledge it however.

By the way something I realized right after making this post but couldn't get a chance to post:
He builds half his case on me based on pre-game stuff, and then he says that pre-game content isn't very useful.
Hello, contradiction much? Also chalk up hypocrisy because you're accusing me of contradicting myself while you contradict yourself within your case on me. Yay!

I think vez is lying tbqh. The claim doesn't seem genuine at all.

My arguments make perfect sense .-. If you don't see why then you don't understand them.

If it doesn't look like rolefishing, then it isn't. If you think it looks like rolefishing, you're lying.

Also, by your definition of townieness, every power role should claim immediately.

Then he goes into telling everyone that I'm not actually asking for Vezo's role info, which I've spoken to already.

The problem with Nhammen's posting now is that he hasn't done anything to disprove my main points.

This is called caught scum.

^This is not a defense^

TBQH I don't give a damn about your claim, since that's equally likely a scum role as it is town, and I believe you to be scum aside from it.

Because I make valid points that you cannot deny, I'm scum? Sorry for scumhunting then.
Note that your argument is even weaker since there are two scumteams thus scum would want to find each other. I'm sure there's scum on the wagon, but it could be one scumgroup riding the wagon of another. And tbh that's fine, since it leads to a scumlynch. The goal of this game is to get the scum to lynch each other more than anything.
So obviously, you're just disguising OMGUS-esque logic as something that's certain not true. You call me scum for no reason, call my case crap for no reason, and you're just not even trying at all. I don't see how you can't be scum.

While there ARE town roleblockers, they're fairly uncommon, especially compared to scum roleblockers. But I'm going to say that you hit the nail on the head here because nhammen is so blatantly scum that a claim is near irrelevant.

Midnight is missing the point.

My original reasons =/= BS
My original reasons = easy logic to follow that damns Nhammen because he knows he's caught

Your blatant defense of Nhammen by calling the logic crap without disproving any of it is noted.

Then you don't understand my reasons which means you probably aren't reading my posts since I spelled them out pretty clearly.

READ THE THREAD.

Lol Nhammen is going to use meta.
unvote, vote nhammen

I don't like Chrono's explanation and his post is a total WTF but Nhammen is getting even worse.

Nhammen, I can't be a VI if I'm right.

You're sour that I made a good case against you and that you're going to get lynched because of it. I'm not a VI by any standards.

This is the most genius one yet:

By the way, logic: If foilist agrees with nhammen's points against him, then they are in fact valid and my case against nhammen is invalid because foilist himself has said nhammen's words are true.

So foilist says that the main reason nhammen is calling him scum is indeed the truth. Basically, admitting to being scum. Good job mate.

Post 604 would be an individual analysis in itself and would require references to my own case as well as his against nhammen. I'm going to skip it for now, but I strongly feel that it follows the same pattern as the other ones I have posted. However, in this one he does actually answer questions. My complaint is that none of them are logical responses, and most of them miss the point.

You have until your next post to vote me or die a horrible death.

I stopped reading your post here because if you're going to misrepresent me like that then I have no reason to read a word of the BS your posting.

I am not a bad player. If I am a bad player, then everyone who voted nhammen after my case is a bad player as well.

YOU HAVE NOT DISPROVED ANY OF MY LOGIC. ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS CALL IT CRAP WITHOUT GIVING ANY EVIDENCE.

^This one is a blatant lie.^

I'm making myself look bad because foilist is lacking any sort of logic in his posts and instead seems satisfied with calling me a VI and calling my points crap without giving reasons. Right. You're a terrible scumhunter then, sorry to tell you.

Fine, there is no sense in foilist's attacks on me and my case, happy now?

there is no sense in foilist's attacks on me and my case

Oh yeah.
I am right and you are wrong. That's what I forgot to add.

Seriously sometimes I feel like you guys aren't even hearing a word I'm saying because I make the scum obvious and you guys decide to ignore my cases anyways.

He's incriminating himself while defending nhammen by calling my case crap - he admitted to what nhammen accused him of under the assumption that nhammen was accusing him of a lesser offense.

foilist get your head out of your *** please

Your definition of OMGUS implies you're voting 4 people at once.

If "doing okay" is defined as "completely missing the point" then sure. Also partly stems from an earlier game but that's meta so it's not important.

SC has done plenty more than you have in this game, hypocrite. Besides, you're useless because you're scum and therefore anti-town, so we should lynch you anyways.

I'll leave it there for now.

My view of this play is tunneling, aggression, crap-logic, and having so many suspects he can wagon hop and have suspected everybody long term. It's ridiculous, and it's scummy.

vote:Parama

I've convinced myself lol.

[foilist13]

@Mod: Think you can fix those quote tags in there? Thanks.

If anyone, probably Parama, wants more I've got it.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

There is nothing wrong with attacking the masons or monks, they simply have a lower probability of being scum than everyone else. Only vezopiraka is confirmed townie.

Oh good God! Yes! Please, let's!

Let not their claims of Holy Mary-hood keep them from being exempt from the watchful eye of suspicion! T'would be most unwise!

If nary a soul hasn't the fortitude to do so, I shall! Just give me the word and I'll be on it like speeding bullet.~

Several people have stated that they find Sevis scummy, why are they not voting him, ect ect ect...

Sevis has yet to refute the case against him, and likely wont. So what are people waiting for ect ect ect...

Why has Sevis not had more votes ect ect ect

I could go on and on, but I really don't want to yadda yadda yadda..

Why is Sevis being passed by again, ect ect ect...

[SerialClergyman]

Parama is town. This wagon and the walls accompanying it are stupid.

nhammen - this is the game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Am I missing something or did you just get all weasely up in here, SC?

Socrates - Yep, it was me and my team, and I was one of the main orchestraters. I'm not sure what you think is weasley about it. My point wasn't to make some kind of 'these two games must be the same', it was to show that there are really obvious symmetries between the two claims. Here is what I think.

a) nhammen is a scum roleblocker, or on a team with a scum roleblocker.
b) nhammen's team genuinely blocked your (Socrates) slot - PS this is the answer to nhammen's 'Why would I target SGRAize? Because you were genuinely looking for scum.
c) nhammen feels like if we lynch Socrates slot and find scum, then good times, he'll look great. If not - meh, he can blame any other reason of failed kill.

I would have liked to explain this a little earlier but I didn't exactly want to scream how likely a roleblocker claim was to be false when I was in an ongoing game with a scummate roleblocker claim.

As it turns out, I shouldn't have to because he's done this claimed result, and drawn a whole wagonful of hopeful scum.

I'm not falling for my own play. I'm not supporting a blocker and lynching based on his claimed results. Even if all the role info and choices and mechanics were all correct, and SGRAise genuinely was blocked last night, the chances are STILL very much in the favour that nhammen is scum.

Besides - in that Dirty South mafia I had the scum roleblocker target his scummate (me) one night specifically on the off chance that he'd be tracked by the claimed tracker and that would be the perfect way to distance us. I'm a sneaky-as scum player and I don't doubt you kids are the same. So even if I'd thought you were particularly town-aligned (I don't - I continue to think that nhammen is serious in his desire to lynch you after his block hoping he hit opposite scum) I still wouldn't be letting you off the hook.

I'm not quite in a mood to just lynch anyone yet, but I'm rapidly approaching it. I think we could cut abou 8 people and hit a decent amount of scum in the bunch, but I still want this nhammen stuff sorted. Then, preferably, the people on the SGRaise wagon to follow.

[SerialClergyman]

Parama is town. This wagon and the walls accompanying it are stupid.

nhammen - this is the game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Am I missing something or did you just get all weasely up in here, SC?

Socrates - Yep, it was me and my team, and I was one of the main orchestraters. I'm not sure what you think is weasley about it. My point wasn't to make some kind of 'these two games must be the same', it was to show that there are really obvious symmetries between the two claims. Here is what I think.

a) nhammen is a scum roleblocker, or on a team with a scum roleblocker.
b) nhammen's team genuinely blocked your (Socrates) slot - PS this is the answer to nhammen's 'Why would I target SGRAize? Because you were genuinely looking for scum.
c) nhammen feels like if we lynch Socrates slot and find scum, then good times, he'll look great. If not - meh, he can blame any other reason of failed kill.

I would have liked to explain this a little earlier but I didn't exactly want to scream how likely a roleblocker claim was to be false when I was in an ongoing game with a scummate roleblocker claim.

As it turns out, I shouldn't have to because he's done this claimed result, and drawn a whole wagonful of hopeful scum.

I'm not falling for my own play. I'm not supporting a blocker and lynching based on his claimed results. Even if all the role info and choices and mechanics were all correct, and SGRAise genuinely was blocked last night, the chances are STILL very much in the favour that nhammen is scum.

Besides - in that Dirty South mafia I had the scum roleblocker target his scummate (me) one night specifically on the off chance that he'd be tracked by the claimed tracker and that would be the perfect way to distance us. I'm a sneaky-as scum player and I don't doubt you kids are the same. So even if I'd thought you were particularly town-aligned (I don't - I continue to think that nhammen is serious in his desire to lynch you after his block hoping he hit opposite scum) I still wouldn't be letting you off the hook.

I'm not quite in a mood to just lynch anyone yet, but I'm rapidly approaching it. I think we could cut abou 8 people and hit a decent amount of scum in the bunch, but I still want this nhammen stuff sorted. Then, preferably, the people on the SGRaise wagon to follow.

[MichelSableheart]

Sixth vote count of day 2.

animorpherv1 (0):
askbob (2):

Super Smash Bros. Fan, nhammen

Dr. Robotnik (1):

Dry-fit

Dry-fit (0):
Faraday (0):
foilist13 (3):

Parama, Socrates, Leafsnail

Leafsnail (0):
Lowell (0):
LynchMePls (0):
Midnight's Sorrow (1):

LynchMePls

nhammen (1):

SerialClergyman

Parama (2):

Unsight, foilist13

pman5595 (0):
Pomegranate (0):
SerialClergyman (0):
Sevis (2):

Midnight's Sorrow, Pomegranate

Socrates (5):

Faraday, askbob, vezopiraka, animorpherv1, Lowell

Super Smash Bros. Fan (0):
The Goat (0):
Timeater (1):

Dr. Robotnik

Unsight (0):
vezopiraka (0):

Not Voting (4):

Sevis, The Goat, pman5595, Timeater

With 22 players alive, it takes 12 votes to lynch someone.

---

Sevis did not respond to his prod, so he will be replaced.

Animorpherv requested replacement.

Looking for replacements for pman5595, The Goat, Sevis and animorpherv.

That's quite a bit of replacements, and the requests I'm sending out are getting negative responses. It will probably be a while before we have a full game again.

Faraday has announced limited access.

Pomegranate has announced limited access till friday.

[MichelSableheart]

Dry-fit didn't post since monday evening, and will be prodded.

[vezopiraka]

This game is dying let's lynch lowell.