A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Benmage]

vote CryMeARiver

Raise Benmage
All should do this ^.

[Benmage]

oh sunofabitch

raise Benmage

[Benmage]

Whats point 5 there drip...?

[Benmage]

wait...none of those 5 things make sense..

[Benmage]

vote CryMeARiver

Raise Benmage
All should do this ^.

Hey, look, I already don't like you.

This makes me want to do a Fonz on you guys. So I will.
Please agree to the following contract or explain why you will not.
1) I will not claim VT unless I am at L1, I am the leading wagon with an impending deadline, or during a massclaim, or our claim can somehow shed light on someone elses (for example: someone claims to have tracked you going somewhere).
2) I will provide reasoning with each and every one of my votes.
3) I will not selfvote, barring the 2:1:1 endgame scenario.
4) I will not lie about my roles. Period.

Whats point 5 there drip...?

wait...none of those 5 things make sense..

Hey look Drip! I found more scum! Noob scum looking for an easy bandwagon!

Ahahaha...yes!

Alright boss, whats the point of the contract. Tell me a positive reason for it.

And those 5 points I thought were points against Deer, or why deer was scum which had no correlation to him, not that those 5 points would deem one scum (which in themselves i don't agree with) ... But oh puhlease go down the "i'm noob scum" road!!

[Benmage]

Also, I do not agree to the contract.

I'm sorry...but i chuckled reading this .

[Benmage]

Choo choo, i hate people who "declare the rvs over".

[Benmage]

The contract is meant because it supports town points CLEARLY.

So since you are CLEARLY such a brilliant player...explain the contracts awesomeness for us lesser minds.

[Benmage]

The contract is meant because it supports town points CLEARLY.

So since you are CLEARLY such a brilliant player...explain the contracts awesomeness for us lesser minds.

I never said I was a brilliant player.

I know i was being sarcastic...i'm thinking quite the opposite actually.

Numbers 1, 3, 4 are just pains on lynches. No one likes having all the WIFOM when it comes down to a serious lynch.

This is not sufficient reasoning for me to abide by it.

Number 2 is because I ABSOLUTELY HATE when people vote without providing reasoning. I really don't care if the reasoning is "I like so and so's case on so and so", but give me something. Also, it's an antitown thing to

bandwagon

vote someone without giving them something to defend themselves against, barring RVS,

which we are now out of.

This is true. I share a similar sentiment, and probably 99% give reasoning, or have given reason beforehand (and the 1% i'm sure had reason either not too, or came shortly after).

Because lengthy RVS's do not help the town in any way, so I am looking to start genuinely scumhunt.

There are other much better ways to exit a rvs, or to begin scumhunt rather than declaring the rvs over.

RVS for me doesn't end until day 2.

Soooo yeah CryMaR, further explanation defending the contract would be appreciated....Also while we're on it, what do you intend to do if people break said contract.

[Benmage]

Still, I do think that there are other people scummier.

Who, or...whom?

[Benmage]

I think the contract is great, but I'm not sure I understand the point of proposing people agree to it. If we're town, we should be doing all those things anyways, and it isn't like the scum aren't going to agree to it as well. I don't think proposing it does anything but distract us from actually scum hunting.

Cha-ching.... from what i've seen/heard about the contract is suppose to protect from retard(newb) play...I'm sure we are all capable of playing just fine without a contract, and if people suck, we can handle poor play ourselves.

[Benmage]

That thing is not useful. So we have to pick a double voter? on day 1.
If we target scum we have a double voter scum.
If we raise town we have a double voter dead.
If we raise town scum may create WIFOM and make us lynch him.

All cases equal bad for town. I still suggest raising the one we are lynching

Uhh this just doesn't read logically.... there can be a multitude of things to keep someone from dying, or to dissuade Nk's.

I'm thinking....we don't need to raise a hand on D1 do we?

[Benmage]

I hate the idea that you would lynch a certain player just because you dislike their play style.

A policy lynch could also be for a consistent VI...someone who is always a hindrance to the town regardless of alignment, take zewt, or zazier for example.

It might be their "play-style" but if it blows, they hang.

Enough the whole raising thing though, people who are just talking about it and just ignoring the two scums that have already been flushed out are scummy.

Would you be so kind as to rephrase, or highlight, or by any means you want to the case on said "two scum".

[Benmage]

Would you be so kind as to rephrase, or highlight, or by any means you want to the case on said "two scum".

It's now 3 scums. Just read our posts. They are short enough.

People always like to vote on "assummed" scummy behavior, or picky backing on others ideas...often i find i have to pull peoples teeth to get a few simple bullets, highlights, or rewording (maybe i want it in different words) and stupid ass people can be so obstinate...i have to ask my self why? And 2 options come to mine, stubborn scum, or dumbasses...you pick which you want to be in your next post.

And is this "oh 3 now" suppose to scare me...like asking you to rephrase scummy positions could possibly be interpreted as scummy, give me a fucking break, play better.

[Benmage]

Benmage, thats the obstructionist attitude that gets you scumpoints in my book. Are you analyzing the thread posts? If you are why could you have questions as to why some players are scummy?

I'm an obstructionists?? Do tell....how is asking someone to highlight, or restate a case at all bad?

I don't like vez's softclaim...he's either claiming tommen the little chubby lannister? Stannis or Renely.

unvote vote Drippereth

[Benmage]

@Benmage does that vote come with any reason at all?

And why do you feel the need to worsen his soft claim by pinning down who he was referring to?

FOS: Benmage

For those who are less book oriented as I am....and clearly the reason for voting him where in my last post .

[Benmage]

^^You didn't think CMaR was being serious when he declared the rvs over?

[Benmage]

Would you be so kind as to rephrase, or highlight, or by any means you want to the case on said "two scum".

People always like to vote on "assummed" scummy behavior, or picky backing on others ideas...often i find i have to pull peoples teeth to get a few simple bullets, highlights, or rewording (maybe i want it in different words) and stupid ass people can be so obstinate...i have to ask my self why? And 2 options come to mine, stubborn scum, or dumbasses...you pick which you want to be in your next post.

And is this "oh 3 now" suppose to scare me...like asking you to rephrase scummy positions could possibly be interpreted as scummy, give me a fucking break, play better.

I'm an obstructionists?? Do tell....how is asking someone to highlight, or restate a case at all bad?

First quote. 1)Hard to read this as anything but challenging the scumstate of those two players. 2)Second quote, you add to this by saying only scum or dumbasses could think this...which especially feels like your lawyering for others. 3)Third quote, i didnt call you an obstructionist, i said it was an obstructionist attitude.

4)It looks like your calling people out to layout their entire reasoning so you can proceed to discredit it instead of directly defending those players as not scummy, when they clearly are scummy.

5)Finally your vote on drip is less than worthless.

1. And your point? I wanted concrete evidence from Drip, and received nothing but stubbornness.
2. Lawyering for others? Not exactly sure what you mean there unless your suggesting I'm defending others?? Can you explain what you meant here.
3) ? You're not retarded...you just sound retarded...?? <<< something like that.
4) Fuck ya i want people to be able to explain why they think xxx is scummy...shittttt. All i'm doing is asking a case to be clearer so I, and everyone else can see if it holds worth, or has any value.

Surely if someone truly believes another to be scummy they can off the top of their head probably name a few things, or at very least know their own wording better to be able to highlight some of their own quotes in their own iso much more easily. They should be overjoyed and eager to help someone inquiring unto said scummy player for the person, if true in their beliefs is going to want to convince that person and others of why player xxx is scummy...as it takes more than 1 to lynch.

5) Do explain.

[Benmage]

4) I agree with this:

And is this "oh 3 now" suppose to scare me...like asking you to rephrase scummy positions could possibly be interpreted as scummy, give me a fucking break, play better.

¯\(°_o)/¯

By "oh 3 now" I didn't mean

you

... Why did you assume I meant YOU? I was referring to vez.

But your feeling targeted is a slight scumtell.

Benmage has been rubbing me the wrong way all game. He comes across opportunistic in his CMAR attacks (if you reread him in ISO, he makes fun of CMAR for his "contract" and attacks it as a bad idea, but doesn't seem to really believe that CMAR is scum) and overdefensive to the slightest bit of criticism.

Explain this "opportunistic" attack you speak...please quote my words that you feel were opportunistic.

I disagree with danakillsu and Rivka on raising. I'd rather give a double-vote to a mediocre townie than smart scum. Smart scum is the kind most likely to stay alive to LYLO/MYLO and lose the town a lynch. IMO, we should raise players who are most likely to be town, not players who sound reasonable.

I disagree, raising the best town person is going to that much more detrimental to the scum.

I'm just saying we shouldn't be going, "This guy made a reasonable post about theory on page 2! Raise him!"

Fair enough...I didn't really see the reasoning behind the axel support.

[Benmage]

@MOD

would we have D2 to try and get a Hand raised (in the event of a tie) or would we succumb to no hand?

Mod ~ Today the people of Westeros have an opportunity to name a new Hand of the King. If they choose not to take that opportunity, the land will be without a Hand for the time being.

Translation - I'm not going to tell you, but don't count on it

.

[Benmage]

I refer to the process of raising the expectation of evidence to an unreasonable level early in the game. Its the extended version of a player getting caught in the RVS and defending himself using the argument ''you cant catch scum in the RVS''. Why would you even use the word ''concrete'' in that context?

Unreasonable evidence?? Drip said it was in his iso, I was asking for him to highlight it or rephrase it for me...how is that unreasonable?

Im sure you have played mafia offsite. Perhaps you have played in a game heavy with roles, where the players spend more time explaining why the scum cant be caught and this that and the next thing are null cause they do it to. Then they no lynch and wait for cops and vigs to bail them out. This attitude pisses me off. We can find scum, we probably already have and several people need to be gunned down

This is just a retarded ramble...if anything I think cops/investigative roles take away from games and players using skill to play. Moreover I could never be construed as a "fence-sitter" or idle person waiting for someone else to do my job for me. And whats this offsite reference? I'm one of if not the, most experienced and best player in this game (from this site).

Then ill reverse the question;how does your vote on drip find lynch scum? You think drip should be lynched?

1) Tis a work in progress.
2) Yes.

[Benmage]

You trying to troll me, benmage?

Just catchin up in the bit I'm behind in...you made a post regarding me, should I not of responded...

[Benmage]

Drippereth (2) -

Benmage

I haven't been raised to hand yet.

[Benmage]

Post 158 - Benmage: GAH! Don't point it out. Ugh. AAAAAH! And why drippereth?

He's voting someone who I feel is showing some pretty obvious town-tells. He's also being obstinate which is either poor town play or scum.

1)

Benmage

, do you think CMAR is scum, or do you just think his contract is a stupid idea?

Initially…probably just the contract being stupid…I didn’t like the whole “rvs” over things..a quick iso read and I’d say he could be scum, so yes to both.

9)

Super Smash Bros. Fan

, I'd have felt much better about you if you'd stood your ground when Dripp asked you why you had no read on Richard. Instead you quickly tried to appease them, by saying "Yes, now that you mention it, I've just seen the light on that scummy scumbag!" Furthermore, you copied

vezopiraka

's reasoning for suddenly suspecting Richard. If anything, I read that Richard post as mildly townish. (It reminds me of a time a town VI-ish player I was hounding snapped back with "can you just leave me alone and find actual scum?")

Agreed, SSBF's sudden epiphany was interesting to follow.

Sooo… I hate Post 229 by CMaR…

I'll admit axel seems to be a very good player and I'll likely take his advice into consideration when using a double vote. Just putting it out there.

*puke*

Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.

I'm against it...you have illustrated anti-town characteristics.

[Benmage]

Raise: Drippereth

Best town read atm, and if Doc's often protect Dripp anyways, makes sense. We're at L-2, so those not raising should really do so.

Quote me some of his town-tells, or feel free to just explain why you think he's the best town read atm.

Just in case I'm wrong does anyone have a descent case on Richard? I read him and didn't find him scummy so much as dumb-town. Am I wrong? All of the cases against him lack substance beyond-the-meta.

If Richard flips town, or has a credible claim, we lynch Kleedrac.

If Richard flips scum, Kleedrac is 100% not his buddy.

This doesn't make sense...

[Benmage]

In contrast to Dripp's post about people being against raising him...can those raising him or willing to raise him share why other than "they're for it".

[Benmage]

Richard, does getting lynched count as dying?

My PM didn't specify, but I would assume so, yes.

Get mod clarification. And get back to us ASAP.

People People...the scum last game had safeclaims, unless provable claims, nameclaims really shouldn't dissuade scummness.

[Benmage]

People People...the scum last game had safeclaims, unless provable claims, nameclaims really shouldn't dissuade scummness.

He didn't just name claim though. He also gave a credible ability that fits the name claim flavor wise.

I agree, I was talking more in generalities.

Also its faction vs faction in the book, but pretty certain we'd all be vs the Lannisters/casterly rock...

I was trying to think of what an SK, or other scum team bookwise could look like... Melisandra? Tyrion n Bronn....I don't know.

[Benmage]

One thing that struck me as odd about the claim is that Ser Loras does the veng killing....I would've imagined Brienne doing that, but perhaps Brienne isn't in the game and this is how things had to work...ahh headache

[Benmage]

One thing that struck me as odd about the claim is that Ser Loras does the veng killing....I would've imagined Brienne doing that, but perhaps Brienne isn't in the game and this is how things had to work...ahh headache

When Renly dies Loras gets so pissed he kills two or his rainbow guards who were supposed to protect him. It makes perfect sense fluff wise.

Ah must've forgotten this part, been awhile since I read book 2...then yes that would make sense.

[Benmage]

I'm happily convinced. Will have to analyze the wagon later...disliking that softclaim even moreso now.

[Benmage]

unraise raise: Drippereth

because they're the best realistic option.

Why?

[Benmage]

Why?

I have already discussed this. I believe Drippereth is town, definitely have no reason to call them scum, and know they can handle a double vote well. Besides the fact that others are willing to raise them.

So your reasoning for raising drip is:
1)You can't find anything scummy about them.
2) Know they can handle a double vote well. (Sounds subjective, care to embellish on this one)
3) And the fact that others are willing to raise them....not like theres scum amongst us **sarcasm**

So depending on some comment on #2, i'm sure points 1/3 could be made for others...so unless you have more to say here, I'm rather unimpressed.

Also, it'll be worth you mentioning about the fact that I, for one am quite against Drip getting the dbl vote, and others share this opinion. What is your opinion on that?

[Benmage]

@Benmage

: Why you gotta hate on Melisandre, Tyrion and Bran? Speculation like this makes me . At the very least, you're telling the bad guys what names they should avoid claiming.
(Also, why do you think there is an SK?)

Bronn, not Bran....The bad guys will have safe claims...I was just thinking, out loud. (Must be more than one anti-town faction)

[Benmage]

@SSBF

you stick CMaR in your "townie" section for the wagon breakdown, and then have him in your notable 5 suspects...(rich as well) Whats up with that?

[Benmage]

They can handle a dbl vote well because there are two of them and they are both very experienced.

The fact that theres 2 of them makes it worse. (too many chefs in the kitchen) Conflicting mentalities.

It's your vote, your call. I'm not going to try to prove that Dripp is town, because that is impossible at this point in time.

I'm not asking you to prove it, just show me

anything

that gave you town vibes.

And you failed to comment on the fact that the other (more)experienced players are against Drip gaining the double vote. Is that meaningless to you?

[Benmage]

Bronn, not Bran....The bad guys will have safe claims...I was just thinking, out loud.

(Must be more than one anti-town faction)

Italiced for emphasis … where does your feeling about this come from? Is it based on the source material?

Large themed game...5 faction world...the books had constant backstabbing of sorts. Tyrion in the mini I believe, although a Lannister was town-aligned...there could be countless characters or factions used in the series as anti-town people/factions in this game.

You believe there is one giganto scum team?

[Benmage]

Post 327 rocks!

You believe there is one giganto scum team?

Personally I have no clue. I’m not versed at all in the source material and don’t see anything in the flavor to lead me to think anything regarding the possible make-up of Scum in this game. We have the name “War of the 5 Kings” which indicates possible multiple factions. On the opposing side we have the line “Following Ned's death fragile alliances were made as an effort to make sure a rightful King sat on the Iron Throne started” which indicates banding together, which alludes to a solo scum faction.

Granted, flavor is flavor who cares I was just thinking out loud...but let me ask you this, have you been in a large game of this size(on this site) with 1 anti-town faction. If so please tell me which one or link.

Benmage: Looking at his posts in ISO, it's a whole load of setup speculation, role fishing and discussion about raising, plus other fluff posts, but very little scumhunting. Who's scum besides Drippereth?

I’m gonna give you the opportunity here to tuck your tail between your legs and walk away…do not talk to me again, unless I talk to you first.

[Benmage]

Hrmm gonna need to look into kleedrac after lunch.

[Benmage]

I will add that Benmage's in-game persona is not, erm, likable.

Wait what.... I have this terrible pet peeve against stupidity.

The brain module that stops him from making scummy post is not functional, possibly much like RichardGHP's

Pffttbb baddd association. Arrogant, fine. Dick...sure. Scummy, now thats where I draw the line!

*Sigh, I warned him... i'll be back later to deal.

[Benmage]

Errr internets being a bitch all day *headdesk* *headdesk*

[Benmage]

Internets finally back...here's the post i had in action when everything went fubar, i know i'm a few pages back:


@I doubt it First are you an alt? If you are not, here’s some initial sincere advice: this game is out of your league and you should seek to be replaced asap and join a newbie game. Moreover regardless of alignment you are probably going to be lynched soon because Oh My God U Suck, pissing off whichever people/side you are on.

Also it’s just generally wise to not call someone out when you basically are guilty of ….sucking. Now then:

I’m gonna give you the opportunity here to tuck your tail between your legs and walk away…do not talk to me again, unless I talk to you first.

Unvote
Vote: Benmage

Well we can start with that this is an emotional response. Which more than likely has no logical foundation, therefore is a poor move and makes you look bad.

Plus, what reason would he have to threaten me like that when all I did was ask a simple question? He's scum.

There was no threat chief...there was sound advice.

Just want to make this clear to everyone. I am not defending Benmage, I am just trying to find faults with I doubt it's case on Benmage.

Pffftbb...you defending me. Don't listen to those cup-cakes that cry when one person defends another...We should all be on a Crusade against stupidity.

Your case on Benmage is overall, poorly executed. There are good cases and bad cases and you've just made a bad one. Scummy one even.

QFT (btw loved the color scheme)

Allrighty then..let’s go see what spawned this

Benmage: Looking at his posts in ISO, it's a whole load of 1)setup speculation, 2)role fishing and 3)discussion about raising, plus other 4)fluff posts, but 5)very little scumhunting. 6)Who's scum besides Drippereth?

I wish there was an emoticon that hangs your head into your hand-half covering your eyes with a slight shake of the head and an exasperating sigh. (Doing it now).
1. And how is this scummy? Link or quote me one thing about “setup-speculation” I did that could be construed as scummy….Even if its subjective and your opinion please show me.
2. Where did I openly role-fish? After Vez’s softclaim? Or for clarity with Rich’s claim…Again where is the scumminess. How do I make your list but Vez the culprit, or CMaR with his “breadcrumb” go unnoticed.
3. What?? This must be false, unless you are referring to my iso 0/1…where I raise myself…?? Anything more to this amazing point *sarcasm*.
4. Uhhh sure I can yield this. (See conclusion)
5. See Conclusion
6. Yes to Drip…I also answer a question by Mina where I state CMaR is scum. I really don’t see a problem anyway we get to lynch one a day. (see conclusion)
Conclusion:
In contrast to point 4/5 and some of 6 I have been one of the more active participants in this game. Which for me is a subjective (soon to be objective) town tell as scum as the less active players. ***Here’s what I have been doing all game. I have been forcing people to explain themselves. I did so with CMaR, Dripp(although he never did, hence the vote) Rifa, Mina and dana…I have not allowed people to make bold persuasive statements (much like the one you just made about me) without explanation. There is no way this forced discussion can be interpreted as “fluff” and has been scum-hunting. This is day 1, there isn’t anything to go on other than discussion, that I, as town, must force. Discussion which I have analyzed and gained in knowledge and scumreads. You are too inexperienced and bad to understand such things.

Note for what it’s worth, I had a town-read on Rich from the get-go(granted I know this can be argued as wifom)...My next move was to analysis the wagon and eye up the lurkers, but have been busy with distractions like yourself, rl, and other games.

Again, please replace out. I’d usually hate to advocate such things as replacing out itself hinders a game and can be a pain for the mod…but the mod should’ve had stricter restrictions on those allowed to sign up. It is in your best and the games best interest. Despite other peoples excessive PTW mentality I enjoy a challenge and beating talent, not a cast of VI’s. If you don’t I’ll probably be forced to do a massive(sarcasm) 5(6) post PBPA of you to get your worthless ass lynched and out of the way.

[Benmage]

^^^Some of thats prolly out of date...gonna do all that catchup too

[Benmage]

@I doubt it First are you an alt? If you are not, here’s some initial sincere advice: this game is out of your league and you should seek to be replaced asap and join a newbie game. Moreover regardless of alignment you are probably going to be lynched soon because Oh My God U Suck, pissing off whichever people/side you are on

Question 1 – Why does it matter if he is an alt? Would your criticism be invalid if he was one?
Question 2 – You pick I doubt it as someone way out of their league but don’t address any number of other players who have made less than stellar contributions. Why shouldn’t the presumption be made that this is solely because he chose to attack your play?

1- If he is an alt, perhaps this game isn't beyond his scope...if this is his first game on this site, he really should've joined a newbie game first. That's why they are here. Which criticism? Him sucking? Alt or not he sucks. Is it newb suckage or just suckage is what I was getting at...And by him...i mean his posts .
2- I'm sure there are a multitude of guilty parties I haven't been able to analyze...of course I'm going to counter the one accusing me.

[Benmage]

Percy made me google Loras...fuckina! Definitely is a homosexual.

[Benmage]

---
Benmage: I see you responded to MagnaofIllusion's questions to you. I understand that my post #486 was huge and you might have missed that I also mentioned you, but could I get a little reaction to point #5?

Off the top of my head I can't recall when i began suspecting CMaR, readin my own iso or his would probably remind me...buttt i'd say a multitude of things including his sucking up to axel, the contract, discussion with him and his general play thus far.

Was there something else you wanted me to comment on?

[Benmage]

tl;dr: Benmage's reaction is a scumtell for me, but not a strong one.

IGMEOY

, waiting for Benmage catchup.

I more or less answered Mina's statements with my response to Magna, about my post towards I doubt it.

I'm caught up.

I'm not attempting to shift conversation. What do you think of I doubt it's "case" on me...and what do you think of him overrall, town-scum-neutral, which?

[Benmage]

@MOD

I doubt it's last post is the 10th can we get a prod?

[Benmage]

Need to catch up on the last page in half...no post count and a tough way to iso blows.

[Benmage]

Damn...well I blew for this deadline, town fail...I failed...A few pages behind(to crazy a weekend/last whatever of rl), I'll read up the few pages during night...butttt meanwhile I'll iso up the two wagons.

[Benmage]

Wow, those 2 iso were incredibly easy...both bring absolutely nothing to the table, both have people on their wagons I like and dislike. (His cancer's in some sort of

tie

) So to ensure we get a lynch:

unvote vote Raivannn

[Benmage]

Oh, did not realize deadline had been pushed back.

[Benmage]

Pretty sure I like this movement against dana, gonna drop a post later tonight.

[Benmage]

Okay I lied. No post from me tonight boys, but I did pick up this hot bartender. Post tomorrow for sure.

How hot?

[Benmage]

Workin on a catchup/reread from my last post on pg 23...hence the delay.

[Benmage]

Wow rereadin this thread is painful...everyone writes so much and says so little...hopefully no more replacements.

Soooo how long can I keep this lurking/active lurking going?? How have I not been lynched yet ....I just finished catchinup the end of D1...what a mess...

That puts me on pg 37... I know I'm not done catchin up yet... however where there any lingering D1 questions that people wanted me to address??

[Benmage]

Hey benmage, how about you give us some ideas of your thoughts of what you've reread so far?

Mmmmm nah, after I get caught up to present, and do some analyzing I'll comment on things I found pertinent.

[Benmage]

Benmage is lurkerscum, by the way.

Do explain.

[Benmage]

Thor's post seems scummy to me as well, he is making sure not to offend.

Who's this Thor person, I didn't know he existed, how did Raivann notice him unless they're buddies?

Pretty sure he replaced in, and Raiv was commenting on his summary post....its something to considering looking in to...

And, your doing your vote analysis wrong....also side note, why is LmPls green?

[Benmage]

LynchMePls is town. Read his posts. Shining beacon of townie-ness, every single one of them.

I'll look again, but its going to be easy for scum to look town when they have the luxury of actually scum hunting.

[Benmage]

Phew, caught up.

I'd be down for a vezo, or dana lynch. I think the vig should kill dripp.

vote danakillsu

I believe thats L-3 claim time soon.

[Benmage]

@Benmage
Anything interesting to say, or are you just going to blindly follow the town?

I'll take blindly follow for 400 Trebek

[Benmage]

@Dana

could you also directly state your ability's name....if it isn't a modkillable offense...

[Benmage]

B-Tully is no SK.

I think its going to be tough to fit the flavor of roles so perfectly into a mafia game...I think B-Tully flavor wise could be a JK...that said, I'm not convinced of Dana, believing this could be another safeclaim like raiv's.

[Benmage]

And how do you feel about Dana, or vezo Unsight?

[Benmage]

All this is rather erroneous talk because I'm sure scum have safeclaims. So let flavor be, and let dana hang.

What flavor dana offers is true. B-Tully was Knight of the Bloddy Gate, which protects the Vale, and has never been breached.

[Benmage]

I cannot confirm dana's ability, I am not be able to observe an effect of a jailkeep/roleblock.

Sorry.

Interesting that you claim not to have been jk/rb'd and choose not to vote dana.

[Benmage]

Mmm true.

[Benmage]

Let's get a votecount, and then those not voting dana can explain why.

[Benmage]

^Yep

@Cow

what do you think about dana?

@Dripp

what do you think about dana?

[Benmage]

I didn't stab CSL... I believed his claim. Nor dana, cause he should be lynched.

[Benmage]

Percy's note that danakillsu was attempting to derail the Raivann wagon the most is spot-on.
------------------------------------------
Again no reasoning. Why is Benmage voting dana?
------------------------------
I will support a danakillsu lynch, but not until the last 3 people explain what they're doing and why. Also, LMP is still scum.

I'll take some of that "spot-on" from Percy, reworded and added with some fluff... Does that suffice?

[Benmage]

I'll be away today and most of tomorrow.

[Benmage]

I'm back...Probably won't work on my readup till tomorrow.

[Benmage]

Oh can you confuse role pm so badly...

[Benmage]

I just read my name.

I assumed that because I am a girl I am also a princess.

You know kings ...princesses?

You didnt read your whole role pm. *sigh*

[Benmage]

@Benmage

- we understand that Vezo is anti-town and/or VI, I'm actually pretty sure every player here has said as much. Are you going anywhere with this? It feels more like white noise then scumhunting.

White noise.

[Benmage]

@Benmage

- we understand that Vezo is anti-town and/or VI, I'm actually pretty sure every player here has said as much. Are you going anywhere with this? It feels more like white noise then scumhunting.

White noise.

Perhaps it is - my white noise also included a specific question, do you have a reply to that question or are you planning to ignore it?

What question did I miss?

[Benmage]

What question did I miss?

WHO DID YOU STAB?

I don't think thats relevant right now.

@Benmage

- we understand that Vezo is anti-town and/or VI, I'm actually pretty sure every player here has said as much.

Are you going anywhere with this?

It feels more like white noise then scumhunting.

What question did I miss?

To be more explicit - you noted twice that you thought vezo was dumb about his role PM and all those posts contained was that information. Unless you think nobody in town thinks of Vezo as the VI I really didn't see the purpose nor the scumhunting in your postings. Please explain that purpose.

Haven't there been several people talking about his VI-ness..why are you only asking me? But to be more helpful, I thought I said it was just white noise...hence no purpose...for if there was a purpose, than it wouldn't of been white noise.

[Benmage]

Well we can only do so much...I'm happy where my vote is and seeing dana lynched today. Might look into vezo at a later date, got more people in mind and more things on my plate atm.

[Benmage]

@MagnaofIllusion

: You say Benmage is playing out of character. What kind of character does he usually have? Links?

Take a look at the following game KOL Mafia. It is a large theme game like this one. Benmage was Town. Read his ISO. There is much more depth to his comments and observations in that game than in this one. Especially in Day 2 here.

Also take note of his professed feelings about lurking and Mafia correlation in KOL Mafia. Compare it with his play here Day 2, especially his comments regarding "how long can I get away with active lurking".

Uhhh no 2 games will ever be identical. Go look at some more games of mine.

And there was irony in that statement because if someone else had done what I was doing, I'd of been all over them. (Potentially)

[Benmage]

1)So have you lurked like this in other games as town, or not?
2)Also, when you say "what I was doing", do you mean "what I am doing"?
3)Why have you chosen to adopt this playstyle for this game?
4)I'm not liking Benmage at all. Put together with his violent outburst (link to full, archived version) against I doubt it on D1 and I'm leaning scum.

1) I don't think so. Nor would I agree I lurked in this one.
2) huh?, grab context.
3) What play style?
4) The feelings mutual, I never voted you to be hand.

[Benmage]

Oh I see #2...yeah sure, there are things I wanted to go back and revist since CSL stabbed and read and comment on. Lets bring this up tomorrow, I'm not gonna make any headway tonight.

Too many things on my plate atm.

[Benmage]

Right right right, well the reading part since the stabbing that I wanted to go back and look at is finally occurring. Days almost over.

My current lynch desire, in order, is dana, CSL, SSBF. There is a general cloud of scumminess after that and I'm currently feeling MacavityLock and Benmage near the top there. I still feel a lot of difficulty reading some players but suspect that's still me getting used to the size of these games.

Benmage’s play Day 2 really seems more and more out of character for him from my personal experience. Posts like 1802 really don’t scream “I’m Town”.

Pfftb than you don't know me well enough. Noones openly as dick as I am..Not even scum me is as dick as town me. Because scum me needs to watch to avoid some eggshells, town me...not so much.

After Raivann’s fake-claim as a normally operating Vig and CMAR’s flip showing limits to his BP status I’m inclined to think Dana’s claim is false. Every other Town Power so far has been limited or dependant.

Dana’s ‘choice’ of Jailkeeping Drip on Night 1 reads to me like a last ditch effort at role-fishing as he goes down.

Perhaps

That doesnt even make sense...

If you thought CSL is a mafia PR

, wouldnt you prefer he be dead?

Did you not read the massive please read, and how the wound worked? Reverse backtracking attack if I ever seen. Strong catch xvart.

Also, I stabbed dana.

Ok, I have a proposal then.

We kill dana today, you can have at me tomorrow.

But you will still be wrong.

Also, I stabbed dana.

You're actually that willing to let yourself be lynched Tomorrow in favor of a danakillsu's lynch? Saying you'll sacerfice yourself is not a pro-town statement.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

Weakass vote

Post 1169 is interesting.

2) I've withheld a vote as town for a goodly while. In fact, a large amount of discussion in the predecessor AGoT game centered around me having withheld voting for a while, and yes, I flipped town. Not voting is not a scumtell.

I don't like the way this reads...its like hey I did this as town, and I'm doing it again, I must be town.

If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.

Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then? You go out of your way to bring him up, describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently not finding him scummy, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. I

f there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?

Anti-town and scummy are not synonymous. Also, perhaps if you read my ISO you would be able to answer your own questions. So far I've indicated SSBF with MacCavityLock based on the flip

as well as dana,

drip, and LMP based on reactions to the Raivann wagon yesterday.

If you want dana lynched, and he's the leading wagon...why the hell aren't ya voting him?

Also, perhaps if you read my ISO you would be able to answer your own questions. So far I've indicated SSBF with MacCavityLock based on the flip as well as dana, drip, and LMP based on reactions to the Raivann wagon yesterday.

I see no problem with me asking you to restate your suspicions from time to time for my personal clarity's sake. Why do you find it unreasonable?

Word, people trip up when they have to restate/rephrase things. Make scum sweat...I hate the "Oh go find it yourself crap".

In addition, active lurker is highly inaccurate. That means posting but not saying anything, doing things such as "hey guys, I'm here". What I'm doing is known as "not posting all the time". So do you have any good reasons?

So regular lurking...check.

Id be interested in hearing your argument why a person could get stabbed 10-20 times and only lose his ability\vote for the day. It looked like a free lynch until i kept reading.

This makes me laugh. You are arguing that the Mob Action doesn’t make sense when it was made abundantly clear HERE. Including oversize letters from the Mod saying “Read this very closely”. And you would have to have read it before the thread was reopened.

So you are basically griping at the Mod because you don’t like how it turned out. Again, a fluff statement for active lurking.

Well done magna (wish I had been more active during this)

Drippereth last post jul 5th...your posting elsewhere, why?

Was a few day break.

Okay well I’m here:

I'm back...Probably won't work on my readup till tomorrow.

Which puts me at pg49. And I think My scanning since this post has kept me more uptodate…gonna keep working, but didn’t want 1 giganto post.

[Benmage]

I'll ask again for clarity: What made you vote for dana? Specifically, your vote was over a week after the first vote on dana so what convinced you dana was scum in between Percy's first vote and yours?

I answered this. But as for the timeframe, I'd have to go back and look at my own iso or thoughts for dana was my vote of the day. So the long gap of no voting could've been me catching up.

And now that the deadline approaches, you gonna vote dana?

[Benmage]

I'm looking over Dana's posts today. And I find myself mostly ambivilent about them. They are not overtly scummy per se, but at the same time, don't have that "townie shining through" quality about them either. Dana is clearly disgruntled, but whether disgruntled town or scum is kind of up in the air. I'm not moving my vote because I'd still be satisfied with this lynch today, I don't like the claim much and Dana's play around the Raivann lynch still looks bad, but I'm also going to try and see if there's anyone who I'd really like to lynch more before the deadline hits.

Kinda feeling similar sentiment with re-readin since the stabbing...But I'm uncertain.

Anyhoo, if he's town, he'll be dead soon enough.

I would agree here, didn't you also say something about you dying soon?

@Benmage

: What exactly made you believe CSL's claim?

Call it gut. The way he claimed sounded like a hot-heated newb claim who didn’t care to early claim cause he’s a VT, sorta like my claim in mafia 91(?).

Is it just me, or is vezo at this point obv-Joffery from a Lannister-type scum group or Stannis from a Melisandre-type scum group? Claims "next in line to throne", then retracts the following day with a character so far from next in line, it's laughable. As much as I was reading vezo as super VI, this whole claim-and-retract business makes me think that a scum buddy slapped him down overnight and he got stuck with a crappy fake claim.

Unvote. Vote: vezo.

Ooo decent...but it would be tommen, not joff right.

After I pushed him for leaving his vote on CMAR so long.

You must’ve dreamt this part, because My vote sat on Dripp the whole D1, until going to Raivann.

Benmage says that he suspects him, but then Benmage votes Raivann for totally no reason and uses the "we need to get a lynch" excuse.

Wouldn't that of been a good thing, I was busy towards end o' D1, but my vote remained on Raivann....

And his play today has been very sheepy and passive. He also committed one of my favourite scumtells: positively salivating at the mouth to get a claim out of dana.

Come now, my scum is too good for that and dana will likely die anyways.

I'm not liking Benmage at all. Put together with his violent outburst (link to full, archived version) against I doubt it on D1 and I'm leaning scum.

Do you often see scum commit violent outbursts, or

hard

cases shooting down others like mine vs idoubtit...if yes to any please show where.

. And Unisght has avoided my question so many times I'm not going to bother asking anymore.

Just reask it instead of asking for it to be answered..this way the question post is fresh and he won't have to cipher back for it.

and I am unclear of the relation with Benmage on my list, so I'll blob them together and call them equally scummy to me.

wtf?
Anddddd onto pg 52.

[Benmage]

K

[Benmage]

Right now my scum reads would be:
Benmage

For what reasoning?

[Benmage]

I did not stab CSL.

Same question I asked Benmage on the subject (which was never answered) – who did you stab?

I did too answer this, so don't act like I'm ignoring you, it just wasn't an answer to your liking.

[Benmage]

I've already mentioned on Day One that I hate it when a townie explodes or reacts in an emotional and genuine manner and someone uses "AtE" as an excuse to ignore any towntells he's making.

Any relevance to dana’s situation?

Yes, I'm aware of the irony that although I've been complaining about the sheepy "Vote: dana/FOS: SSBF" and "Vote: SSBF/FOS: dana" posts, at least two of my three top lynch choices (CSL,

Benmage

, and vezo) are

"easy targets

." (That said, there's someone else I'd like to draw some attention to if I have time.)

Uhhhh what?

But you didn't think there was

something

weird about every single person in the game going after the same two easy targets?

Weird that everyones targeting them....you do know that towns the majority here.

They're all over the place, they post a lot of noise (making them hard to read), and they commit a lot of "misplays" (for example, SSBF defending Benmage for no reason).

What SSBF did in regards to me was no misplay.

but I feel as though Benmage's and CSL's inconsistencies were more cut-and-dry instances of "I'm making up scumreads as I go along because I don't care who we lynch as long as it's not me," whereas I could see dana's flip-flop coming from poor town.

See I hate having to s.p.e.l.l. everything out. But simply put I'm too good for something as poor play as this, so don't lump me in with this bad logic/play.

Either way, although I'm uneasy about I doubt it, I agree with him that I'd rather leave dana alive to eat a nightkill. Hey, scum! The protown jailkeeper just revealed. Even better, if you're being sincere about your opinions in the thread, at least 75% of you think dana is scum. And if you're a Greyjoy and dana isn't one of your buddies...well, don't you want the Lannister roleblocker flip to distract everyone from looking for Raivann's buddies? Of course, it's probably too late for this plan to work, since everyone in the game has vocally declared how much they want to lynch him.

Too many 'ifs' here. But I'm not as closed to others being lynched as say Rich is...but the deadline is approaching fast and I don't foresee a successful wagon switch.

dana and SSBF have both committed scumtells (although they've also made a couple of towntells), but I just don't get that feeling of naked opportunism I get with CSL or Benmage.

Explain or restate this naked opportunism please.

For those who are leaning Vezo scum, I'd like to call your attention to the three people voting him:

Vezipiraka (3) -

Danakillsu, Drippereth, MacavityLock

Pretty sure 2 of those 3 are scum, and the other very well could be too. Just saying. Of course they could be on different scum teams, but I was just rereading the day when I noticed this.

Yeah I was thinking Vezo as an alternative to dana, but I do not like those voting him.

[Benmage]

@Benmage

:

Nor would I agree I lurked in this one.

You already did

.

What play style?

The one you've adopted for this game. I can't imagine the Benmage of WoT-mafia fame posting things like

this

, for example.

What was so good about WoT-mafia anyways? The game was ages ago. The town lost. I was modkilled, and the mechanics of the game should've been a bastard setting. We didn't play mafia in that game we tried to figure out an unfigureoutable puzzle thats sole purpose was to distract us. It was pretty shitty.

And whats wrong with the post? Its got chutzpah in it if you ask me.

The strongest read of Benmage I have at the moment is "trying to avoid attention". Not just in his overall lack of posting, but in what he says when he posts - very aggressive "look elsewhere, why are you asking me" posts and the like. I am liking Benmage for scum more and more.

Somewhat fair assessment, I haven't been quite as ballier in this game. But I think second half of this is a stretch.

I'd support a dana, SSBF, and Benmage lynch and in that order.

How did I jump to 3rd on your scum list?

2. Dana survives the Night. Now what? Are we going to end up repeating the arguments and voting of today with a heaping topping of WIFOM to boot?

Good point.

And that concludes my more detailed reading since the stabbing.

My #1 is still dana. Vezo, too. I don't like Rifka, Unsight, Locke, Dripp, or ML..but I need to look into some of these some more.

I don't wanna lynch CSL, and I'd have to review SSBF before committing there.

(Oh and Mina...I don't think the word "passive" fits at all with my statement at i doubt it.)

[Benmage]

I'd support a dana, SSBF, and Benmage lynch and in that order.

How did I jump to 3rd on your scum list?

Mostly some of the interaction with Percy and myself from today. You seem to be going out of your way to be obtuse in all your replies. Being dodgy around questions always wiggles the needle on my scumdar. Also, just to clarify, you're only really making a shift of one spot on my scum list, and I'd still put CSL higher on the list then you but the list you quoted is a lynch list and I've explained why CSL isn't currently on it (stabbing).

Whose spot did I change lanes with again?

And what question from Percy did I dodge, and what question of yours did I dodge?

[Benmage]

You "changed lanes" with Drip (before you were in a scum cloud tied with Drip)

I didn't say you dodged anything, I said you were obtuse. Specifically off the top of my head I can recall the playstyle question Percy asked you, to which your reply was 'which playstyle?' You actually did this to a couple of Percy's points, basically asking for re-phrasing or clarification of questions prior to answering them. I recall similar energy from you in an exchange we had earlier in the day (I don't honestly remember the exchange topic - if it's really important to you I can go dig it up) The issue I had with it though, was again, this feeling of obtuseness with a required need for needing questions restated and clarified before you would answer them.

You said I was being 'dodgy'. I don't see anything wrong with clarification. Yeah If you got the time, rehighlight our exchange that was unsettling for you.

[Benmage]

And in re-reading my commentary I see where you took dodgy to mean dodging. To clarify, dodgy is not synonymous with 'dodge'.

Did you not use it in the context of elusive? That I was in some sense avoiding questions? If I am incorrect here, choose a better word to replace "dodgy" that I can better grasp your intent/meaning.

[Benmage]

It's just been a general uneasiness since the start of the game

The start... I thought I started strong.

just small things adding up. You had some exchanges with Rifka and Mina that I thought you came off the worse in

Can you be a bit more specific than just small things, please. Also what aspects of my exchange with Rifka did you like about Rifka and dislike about me.

you admit to lurking

In jest, do you believe I am guilty of the crime?

you don't stab CSL but you refuse to answer the question of who you did stab.

In what ways do you think there is an anti-town motive in not stating who I stabbed? Surely as scum to avoid unnecessary confrontation I could’ve named anyone or even simply CSL. What anti-town reasoning do I have to hide it? Or do you think I have to hide it?

[Benmage]

As noted, I explained specifically what part of your clarification attitude towards questions pinged me as scummy.

Right the interplay with Percy and asking him about my playstyle...Does his question even make sense.."adopt playstyle"...Who willfully thinks of adopting playstyles per game...I just play the game and various thinks affect it. RL and others actions specifically. What playstyle you using thor? What playstyle is anyone using...dumb question if you ask me. Dumb questions get dumb answers...the clarification was giving Percy the benefit of the doubt to clarify, which doesn't seem apparent.

[Benmage]

Probably an expansion of my negative feelings towards the vezo wagon and those who I thought were soft selling it, which I do think you were doing there to an odd amount.

Soft selling the vezo case...hmm. Odd amount (2 mid convo comments)…hmm… I suppose that could be assumed. But I don’t think I’ve hidden my dislike for Vezo, I just haven’t thrown out a spiffy campaigning case. I’m more interested with dana and don’t have the time for this side thing that at the moment I’m not as interested in.

To be honest I'd forgotten some of our interchange afterwards which weakens the case

Do I still maintian my 4thclass 3rd lynch class rank?

[Benmage]

hey guys, remember how we started out looking at SSBF? Notice how now that nobody's talking about him, he's vanished?

No I don't remember. And seeing as your vote:

The fact that we managed to get rid of a Mafia Godfather is fantastic news for the town.

HI THERE MR SCUM HOW IS YOUR BLATANT SCUMTELL TODAY?

vote: SSBF

Doesn't scream case...you mind bulleting the case for me.

[Benmage]

Oh and cow, if SSBF is scum and you want to switch the wagon train....Time is of the essence.

[Benmage]

Doesn't scream case...you mind bulleting the case for me.

1) he's scum
2) since we've been focusing on dana, he's disappeared
3) he's trying too hard to look town
4) he's scum
5) he decided to point out how good it was that a godfather died, when it's really obvious that it's good and pointing it out is only trying to get town points
6) he didn't vote for Raivann right away, instead choosing to FoS and HoS him before a vote
7) he's scum

that enough bulleting for you?

Pretty bad actually. 3 zeros and (2) doesn't fit into chronology. (3) is a bad statement...I mean explain more or highlight...Come on man its campaign time the hour is near! (5) is a weakass point I've seen town do this all the time. (6) Intent to vote, followed by (vote?) ...seems meh. I don't like FoS's or HoS's to begin with, do you?

Anything more concrete?

[Benmage]

ISO him and tell me you can't see it and I can give you more.

The time is near, you'd think if you thought him scum you could be more convincing. Why must I iso him if the information is readily available in your mind. I could walk away from the computer going meh and you'd be no closer to lynching someone you believe to be scum with a rapidly approaching deadline. This is some obstinate behavior I dislike. Do you even think SSBF is scummy?

What happened to this energy:

SSBF is just so incredibly scummy right now it's insane.

I suppose I could iso him, but I think I'm gonna analyze this SSBF wagon first to see if the voters hold the key or if the wagon has merit... for I am trying to campaign voters onto dana.

[Benmage]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

[Benmage]

I don't really see how I have to be his scumbuddy just because I didn't say much about him, and then said he was scummy. That just happens all the time.

This almost looks like the ''you caught me for the wrong reasons rant'' tell.

Ill put down a

vote:SSBF

as per earlier reasons

Per earlier reasons…hmm isoing you I see little talk about SSBF save his defense of me. Is that your sole scum suspicion and reasoning for voting him? If there’s more can you please requote it or refer to your iso numbers or simply restate it.

Later you call it more gut:

@thor. there are logical cases against both SSBF and dana, but i have a scum gut read on SSBF, so he gets the nod.

Does this mean you’d be for and would eventually vote dana if need be?


I doubt it is atleast showing some consistent pursuit in his dislike for SSBF. A few things I’m concerned with:

Alright, finally got time to look at the case on dana.*************case************** I still think SSBF is scummier than dana but he's not looking like a bad lynch either.

In other news, SSBF is still scum and dana looks like Raivann's scumbuddy.

Has

anyone

read my case on CSL? Anyone at all? It's not just a lurker lynch. It's a lot like the case on danakillsu, except my wagon has butterflies and rainbows!

I forgot about it as it was late in the day 1, but I've looked into it now. Unless I'm missing something, the crux is his inconsistencies in who is scummier, Raivann or CMAR, yes? It doesn't seem to be as damning as the case on dana.

Lynch preference: SSBF > vezopiraka > CSL

Soo my point is….what happened to dana? Why did he fall off your lynch list. Are you no longer willing to lynch him?

Unfortunately it Friday and I’m going out now to eat dinner with buddies and then goin out, so no more content for tonight…and who knows about the rest of the weekend.

I implore those not on the dana wagon to ask themselves whynot, and if their wagon is any better… if so they need to f’ing get the fire goin.

Also for lack of time, I cannot analyze diddin's breakdown and vote of SSBF sorry.

[Benmage]

just small things adding up. You had some exchanges with Rifka and Mina that I thought you came off the worse in

Can you be a bit more specific than just small things, please. Also what aspects of my exchange with Rifka did you like about Rifka and dislike about me.

If I have the time I'd be happy to. I'm not doing that now. I just have in my notes that you were arguing and I sided more with Mina/Rifka. I'd have to go back and re-read the exchange.

Whenever you get the time will be fine.

When you said it you were just coming back from

a bit of lurking

, yes. You have since improved, but it doesn't change the fact that for

awhile you were lurking

, and you even admitted to it. That is my recollection of events.

Was I guilty of a bit of lurking, or did I lurk for awhile?

Is there anyone else guilty in this game of lurking?

you don't stab CSL but you refuse to answer the question of who you did stab.

In what ways do you think there is an anti-town motive in not stating who I stabbed? Surely as scum to avoid unnecessary confrontation I could’ve named anyone or even simply CSL. What anti-town reasoning do I have to hide it? Or do you think I have to hide it?

I think holding information back from the town is scummy. I also happen to know that you agree with that view. I see no reason why you shouldn't share this information. You said you didn't stab CSL. The natural follow-up question is "who did you stab", and rather than provide that information, you refuse. Presumably the players we stabbed are people we have scum reads on. So you are essentially refusing to state who you saw scummy enough to stab. Your refusal to answer seems scummy to me. As for the fact that you could lie about it, that is true, but if you have "nothing to hide" as you claim, why be so "obstinate" (see I can use that word too).

The only reason I can see for refusing to answer the question is so that you don't get locked into a scum read on someone.

The last line is all we need to concern ourselves with. This is true. I thought I said something along these lines or hinted at it, if not mybad. It's someone I feel is scummy, potentially not as flagrant or as believed by others to be scummy but a work in progress for me. I don't feel like showing my hand without first stacking the deck.

Since we can now agree that the reason is to hide a potential scum read of mine. How scummy of a move by me to withhold this do you think it is?

Your exchange with Cow is reinforcing my scum read Benmage.

In what ways! lol...do explain please. Asking someone to state their reasoning for voting someone....yeah shame on me! (sarcasm)...HMMMM asking someone to campaign for someone they believe to be scum...Blasphemy! Straight to the gallows for me!!!

I think you might be due for an iso LMP.

You really don't think SSBF is scummy?

Off top of my head I forget. I seem to recall things that made me go 'hmmmm'...but I also remember things others thought as scummy, or very scummy that I didn't find scummy. I'm pretty sure I said something along the lines of I'd had to analyze him further prior to any lynching.

Right the interplay with Percy and asking him about my playstyle...Does his question even make sense.."adopt playstyle"...Who willfully thinks of adopting playstyles per game...I just play the game and various thinks affect it. RL and others actions specifically. What playstyle you using thor? What playstyle is anyone using...dumb question if you ask me. Dumb questions get dumb answers...the clarification was giving Percy the benefit of the doubt to clarify, which doesn't seem apparent.

I've known a couple of players (Fate and RayFrost come immediately to mind as probably the most well known) who have and do adopt different playstyles for different games. I do not drastically switch playstyles but I am aware that my current playstyle is quite different from my playstyle a few months ago and can discuss that shift intelligently (I'm waaaaay more gut now and faaaar less 'logic case is only case' then when I first started playing)

So, from my perspective - yes, it is odd that you seemed to find the question so bizarre. I'll consider your current tack on answering it though.

Yeah you didn't one day wake up and go "oh heyyyyyy new playstyle".....it just evolves and various a bit from game to game. Thats my point. And using to bums like Fate and Ray to make a point strong....is......

Probably on a pure scum list you're back to being tied with Drip at the moment in my mind. You're more scummy then Macavity and less so then dana, CSL, and SSBF.

Thats fine. And the reasons for my scummieness was my obtuseness, and vezo piggybacking. Potential a period of "lurky-ness" (I forget if you mention that as a strike against me)
Alas I want to conclude (and maybe in a redundant way, forgive me) that my game in its entirety from a perspective of you is scummier than all these current players:

Xvart
Mina
LynchMePls
MacavityLock
Unsight
Axelrod
Percy
Vezopiraka

animorpherv1

Locke Lamora
Mikujin
I doubt it

Migwelloni Kinetic

diddin
Rifka Viveka
RichardGHP

DrModem

hasdgfas
MagnaOfIllusion

[Benmage]

even if it is a bit hyper spam

Hi, I’m Benmage, nice to meet you.

[Benmage]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority,

and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise

.

So you don't like Percy's case?

[Benmage]

I don't like Benmage much though, he's been posting a lot recently and what I mainly don't like throughout this flurry of posting, is that there still seems like relatively little scum-hunting going on in all that.

You gonna fault me for a few catch-up posts. Scum hunting...its been done, now I'm campaigning to get the scum lynched. Thats bad?

He's mostly defending himself and/or criticizing the cases of others.

I'm attacking others votes/cases. That sounds like a fantastic way to scum-hunt if you ask me.

He's being snarky and self-depricating (like, he wouldn't play as bad as this if he was scum?).

Would you agree that I have some level of competence in these games? (Or mafia as a whole)

I saw him give a list in one post of who he thinks is scummy without saying anything more about any of them.

OHHH nO He DiDnT. Is this a bad thing Axel?

His big stand is that he's against a CSL lynch, and the reason for that is..."gut."

Really...thats all I've contributed...dang.

[Benmage]

Weakass vote.

Mind explaining why my vote on CSL on ISO: 71 is a weak vote?

Especially since you only quoted part of my post.

Was there a strong aspect of your statements that I missed? If so please requote it for me, because I did not see it, and when you state the part I just underlined I get the impression that you get the impression or are hinting at that I had some ulterior motive in hiding this full information.

I'll be happy to answer the weakass part once I know if I did or didn't miss anything important.

[Benmage]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority,

and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise

.

So you don't like Percy's case?

what a great strawman. I said SSBF is a higher priority,

not

that dana isn't scummy.

Mmm my mistake. So why do you think dana is scummy(Percy reasoning?), and why not as a high a priority as SSBF?

[Benmage]

You completely ignore the fact that withholding information is IN YOUR OWN OPINION scummy.

So you find it scummy only insofar as I find it scummy and am committing the act? Is this correct?

Your continued dodging of the issue is scummy.

How am I dodging the issue when we are talking about it right now....

As I said before, the chief scum motivation for not saying this is to keep from locking yourself down. This happens to also be the reason you want to not share this information. That is scummy.

I disagree that it is to keep me from locking down. I do not fear a change of opinions. This one however is a more subtle approach that I'm certain will come to fruition. I also do not think what I am doing is scummy.

Your nit-picking my words "awhile" and "a bit" is really lame.

Those have two very different meanings...Which am I guilty of?

And your "you're due for an ISO" doesn't scare me, feel free.

That was not my intent, I just came to the realization that I haven't been paying enough attention to you.

[Benmage]

Yes, in general I feel you are scummier then all of those other players. Why, do you think I'm drastically overlooking something here?

Well naturally. Moving past the self knowledge of being town I would without a doubt believe my self to be far more town-telling in totality of game play when compared to others.

I'm satisfied with where we have come with this for now, no need to go nuts with the short deadline approaching, but we may re-analyze this later.

[Benmage]

Post Counts Just to see where were at:
1)Xvart -----33
2) Mina-----55
3) LynchMePls----128
4) MacavityLock----28
6) Unsight-----34
7) Paranoia Thor665----2/38
8) Benmage----111
9) Axelrod-----43
10) Super Smash Bros. Fan-----75
11) Percy - The Hand of the King-----33
13) Vezopiraka----apparently theres 2 here??? 57 total?
14) animorpherv1 Locke Lamora -----7/13
15) Mikujin------40
16) I doubt it-----27
18) Migwelloni Kinetic diddin -----2/8/9
19) Hayker CSL -----4/34
20) Rifka Viveka-----62
22) dannakillsu-----70
23) RichardGHP-----52
24) DrModem hasdgfas-----10/49
25) MagnaOfIllusion-----28
26) Drippereth----135

@Thor

does seeing this mean anything to you?

[Benmage]

(or, I guess, scum for over posting)

Where have you seen scum over post?

I'm surprised that Drip is one of the highest posters here (the bulk of that posting is most assuredly not concurrent with my time here).

I hope that doesn't mean you were haphazard in your read through when you replaced in.

Macavity is certainly not posting as often as I'd sort of thought, which might be some of the basis for the scummy feeling I have on him

So you find lurky-ness a scumtell?

(though I don't particularly have as strong of one on the other two even bigger lurkers so there's got to be more to it then just this).

Which 2, Locke n diddin?

[Benmage]

@Benmage (#1351): I'm not sure how that post is really suppose to benefit town. It isn't even a proper gauge of activity, only shows how many people posted.

No it is not a proper gauge. For example people like Percy whose count is relatively low tends to say a lot when he posts. Tho I think the post and people viewing it still has worth. Somethings for example struck Thor as peculiar.

This vote stinks. I now feel much worse about you than I did at the end of D1.

I like this.

Macavity is certainly not posting as often as I'd sort of thought, which might be some of the basis for the scummy feeling I have on him

So you find lurky-ness a scumtell?

To a degree. Depends how active/strategic I feel it is.

So it would be fair to say it ranges? Varying from instance to instance and being slight scummy?-To very scummy?

(though I don't particularly have as strong of one on the other two even bigger lurkers so there's got to be more to it then just this).

Which 2, Locke n diddin?

Yes.

Would you yield some scum points for Locke and diddin's lurkerness?

well, to be exacting, I have,

Well what occurred with this over posting scum? Were they flooding the game with small fluffy posts, were they of the top post counts, were they simply the most or more active people in game etc etc, some more details if you could.

but why are you quoting random sentences out of context in Thor's posts and trying to come up with a snappy reply to it?

Where did I do this?

Can you please stop it?

Lol! Stop being me. I get complained about not being me. You awake the dragon and complain. Listen if you're gonna play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

Why did you feel the need to bring up that Thor was surprised Dripp was one of the highest posters, or ask if he's seen scum overpost

when he wasn't even making a case on you for overposting

, or ask him if he considers lurking a scumtell? You're just filling the thread with noise.

You are incorrect. You do not know my reasoning for this question, so don't attempt to assume. It is not white noise. I'll yield to your inexperience on this one.

Also, randomly bringing up the post counts just to say, "SEE! SEE! Look at my post count! It's high!" was pathetically pathetic.

Your questions aren't even helping find scum.

You don't know this. You don't know where I might be going with anything I've said. Making a comment like this just makes you look foolish. And I feel like I am getting better reads on people. So as to put it in “Benmage WoT” terms Go fuck yourself.

[Benmage]

You still didn't say why it was important for me specifically to comment on your post counts.

I didn't want to narrow your scope. Had I given direction you may have missed your suspicions on ML, or failed to confirm your locke/diddin sentiment. You also have new(or recollected) insight on dripp.

[Benmage]

(in a nutshell, I agree with Axelrod's and Thor's assessments of your play, and think your sudden boost in content and overaggressive defence looks a lot like arrogant scum who overestimates his abilities and thinks he can scare people away from attacking him by throwing words at them),

Could you in your own words describe Axel's and Thor's assessment of my play. As for the boost in content, what scum motivation for doing so have you concluded?

[Benmage]

For the record, I'd move to SSBF now if it's a choice between him and dana, because I hate his most recent posts.

Whats so bad about his recent posts?

[Benmage]

Vezo is for vigging. There is 0 chance vezo makes it to end game. Vezo is CLEARLY not today's lynch. I honestly can't think of a single worst place for your vote right now.

Hasn't there been some discussion that we might no longer have vigging powers left in the game? No one countered Raiv's Beric claim, and the Assassin is dead. So, why are you trusting to a maybe non-existent vig?

While I can agree that I don't think leaving anything to the hands of a vig is smart. We also can’t assume a vig exists. But Raiv did die last night. I know if I was a vig, and someone else claimed vig I wouldn’t CC but rather see to their demise.

Since when is 30 hours to deadline "breathing down our necks"?

Since days last weeks...I'd say 30 hours is a time crunch and that theres no time for a wagon switch. Noones even attempting to be persuasive enough. Everyones heard people's pieces on Vezo, SSBF, Dana, and CSL...and look where the votes are. Noone promoting the alternative lynches is going out of their way to pick at peoples cases/votes, so nothings going to change. Dana will hang.

[Benmage]

How is that so hard to believe? I'd vote for dana to get a lynch near deadline, but I'd prefer an SSBF lynch.

Yes, I'm tired of beating this dead horse for now. My inquiries were largely because of the crappy bulleted case I was presented with. But we can move on.

[Benmage]

How is that so hard to believe? I'd vote for dana to get a lynch near deadline, but I'd prefer an SSBF lynch.

Yes, I'm tired of beating this dead horse for now. My inquiries were largely because of the crappy bulleted case I was presented with. But we can move on.

you asked for bullets

3 of which were nothing! And others weren't overly convincing.

[Benmage]

1) That doesn't actually reflect back on it being a functional post for you, nor does it explain why I was the player asked to comment upon the post 2)(unless your inference is I'm muddled and lost and need help with organizing my scumreads)

1The post was not solely for you.
2Yes (to a degree)

And don't listen to slow ones like Mina, you have been a contrasting epitome of the all too often obstinate behavior I come in contact with. So kudos.

Here’s taken from that post of mine the people you find suspicious.
dannakillsu-----70
Hayker CSL -----4/34
Super Smash Bros. Fan-----75
Benmage----111
Drippereth----135
MacavityLock----28
Granted content is quite key here as well.

Now if you want feel free to rethink about who and why you find these people scummy, and how and why you even measure "scummyness"

Concluding, there were points to this interplay. I have successfully gotten a good read on you. So I have since wanted to move to two further steps. That is one to make you come to an epiphany, and 2 is more for me (and that is to measure your capacity as a scum-hunter). Our discussion for now can be complete, because I don’t want to open the pandora’s box yet(the list of those people less scummy than me). That said if at any moment you have an epiphany, please let me know.

[Benmage]

We can do this one of two ways. Percy, or someone we think is scum.

I think Percy should nominate himself to step forward.

(

@MOD

does everyone vote for most worthy or only those who step forward get to also vote?)

[Benmage]

Re-reading I doubt it, I find it nearly impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.

[Benmage]

Moving right along. Here's the list of people soon be further examined, iso'd, and maybe even pbpa. Order decending in importance based on read(or lack thereof) as well as scumminess...Also gonna look into the lynches, wagons, and deaths yada yad etc etc.
MacavityLock
Locke Lamora
Rifka Viveka
Mina
Xvart
Axelrod
Unsight
Mikujin

In the meantime we can start wagoning up vezo.

Vote Vezopiraka

[Benmage]

Re-reading I doubt it, I find it nearly impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.

I think he's a Greyjoy, as shown by his reluctance to vote Raivann and just his overall scumminess.

Oooooo see, I didn't reread SSBF yet and I do recall oddness with this(people talking about it). Good point.

Step Forward

[Benmage]

I always thought SSBF was more like a greyjoy mafia(=raivann buddy).

Who said he was lannister?

Did you forget in the following 2 posts that you had to read that it was me?

I feel percy is a strong town read right now, so its sorta a waste to use it on him.

I would like to know benmage

or magnaofillusion alignments personally

definitly up for a vezo lynch here. he got caught in the cookie jar yesterday

Ah nope, just trying to circumnavigate there. Gotchya.

[Benmage]

Did you forget in the following 2 posts that you had to read that it was me?

I KNEW you would spout this. Im asking YOU where you got that from

I just ruled it out as an option. Since people we're calling him scum, and I was unconvinced. Although in double light of ruling him out as being a Lannister I will revisit his potential Greyjoy connection.

[Benmage]

This, incidentally, fits with the theory that SSBF is a Greyjoy.

Vote: SSBF

I'm very happy to start the day here.

You just said the Lannisters killed jvw, and you're linking it to SSBF wanting him dead, and now being a Greyjoy....

[Benmage]

Also, I appreciate your most recent contribution; I only hope that expecting that level of play will continue throughout this day?

One post of nothingness...yeah all bow to richard's excellent play(sarcasm).

His activity wasn't the question. It was his content. But whatever, he's a non issue.

[Benmage]

Macav I like post 1435 posts…More or less agree with those rush reads, except for CSL’s.

Mina is totally right. Cop 101 is dont investigate total obv town or total VI at the bottom of the scuminess barrel thats an obv lynch. So its suspicious when experienced player like benmage advocates wasting it on percy

Use my experience to your benefit and trust me.
Just because Percy has you guys groveling at him doesn’t make me convinced. He certainly has the capacity to play this way and be scum. I never voted for him to be hand. I’m not in the same boat as you guys all are. Having him confirmed will make his double vote during the day much more trusted. Also more likely for him to draw night protection if you ask me.

There are basically 2 options. Percy, or someone we think is scummy.
Confirming Percy puts a smart, experienced, double voter confirmed town. It’s like having 2 townies instead of 1 confirmed.
This would in my book yield Rich, Thor, Percyx2, Me. As town, which is pretty damn powerful.

Well Nobody listens to me.
If you do then the scums should be SSBF ,

Mina and someone else who I can't seem to find

.
If you promise to keep me alive I will make cases about them.

I'm tempted with this alone.

No, thank you, Mina. You too, Rifka.

Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.

Thor: I would advise you hold off from vigging anyone until this plays out.

*Insert Middle finger* You wanted Benmage WoT he’s warming up baby. (Faraday keep me in check prior to modkilling thx)

Why are you not voting someone who appears on your list of suspects? Secondly, why the hell would you have Percy step forward as opposed to someone who is of a less clear alignment? That doesn't make much sense.

The list is people I want to reanalyze. I don't need to re-look at Vezo. I have a full grasp there.

Do my other comments to Percy suffice?

I'm officially saying it now, anyone pushing for percy to be investigated gets scum points in my book. First, Percy is not impossible to read, so I don't know why people feel that way. He may be more difficult, but I think if you look closely at his play it is easy to see if there is consistency or not. That's the key to percy-town vs. percy-scum. From what I have read so far, we're looking at Percy town here. The game would be much better served by investigating someone of a murkier (or lurkier!) alignment.

I'm super glad it is ML's spot buddying Percy so vehemently.

No, thank you, Mina. You too, Rifka.

Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.

Hmm, ok. I reserve my earlier judgement (only about Locke mind you). Let's hear this now, Percy. Hold that Vig thor.

Love the stubborness, and you trying to hold a last bit of pride, rather than admitting you were wrong. It's admirable.

Sometimes a player can post in such a way I get such a strong town read that I feel it's unnecassary, but Percy certainly wasn't there yet.

QFT

@Mina

I'd be more than happy to put you in your place as well. So far what you got against me? 1)Not acting like myself(WoT Benmage) But when I do you complain I spam . 2) As a subtext of 1 you don't like my questions. Well they for me confirmed Thor's alignment prior to his claim. So back off, let me do my thing. I am better than you. Period. Do not question my methods. 3) I was "drooling" at dana's claim. Look how that turned out. 4) I want Percy to step forward. (Said my peace on this, and Oooo Look at what Locke might have)

More to come gal. Don't you worry.

[Benmage]

Particularly not with someone who can barely form complete sentences.)

I'm not interested in a spelling bee or English lessons. You'll find my logic much more sound than any dribble you will put forth. And that's what will matter, F-grammar. Not these long over drawn paragraphs you seem so fond of.

[Benmage]

Again, in regards to Percy having him a confirmed skilled veteran player. With a double vote is a good thing. And will draw doc protections or whatnot. In this scenario, we don’t want scum killing him, and we have a strong confirmed(hopefully protected) PR.

I'm super glad it is ML's spot buddying Percy so vehemently.

lol, so? We could both very easily be town. I really get sick of people calling buddying without seeing alignment flips. Here's a hint: THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. If Percy flips scum, then you'd have an argument (though I would never be so blatant unnecessarily as scum).

People use the word maybe without its exact correct definition. Just like chainsaw. Both yes are reliant on flips. But you can still say buddying. You are backing him up. Thats buddy in my book. What word would you use to describe it?

Love the stubborness, and you trying to hold a last bit of pride, rather than admitting you were wrong. It's admirable.

This makes about zero sense. Locke apparently has a legitimate reason for wanting Percy investigated. I can understand why he said what he said and therefore, I am willing to back off of him until that is sorted out. You and Axelrod, however, had no reason to say what you said other than protecting your own skins or that of hypo-scumbuddies. Let's say you and Percy were of opposing scum factions. By and large, you'd probably think he is town because he's played a pro-town game. Therefore, he's a safe place for you to plunk the investigation because it's a guaranteed result that 1) doesn't threaten you or your scumbuddies and 2) prevents anyone else from potentially becoming confirmed town. On the other hand, the flimsy argument being proposed of "I can't read Percy boohoo" is a terrible reason to spend a free investigation.

You may find this bullying helpful against noobs benny, but you should know by now that it doesn't work on me. You tried it in Last Man Standing and it just got you shot. If you're town here, it's best not to approach me like that. If you expect me to take you seriously, then speak logic and not bullying.

I tend to be nothing but logical. I have given my reasons for wanting Percy. If you are too wrapped up and aren't taking any moments to breathe and read what I'm saying I'd be happy to bullet them for you once more. But after that we should move on.

There are people I have neutral reads on, whats wrong with that? Percy is not an auto-town read that you guys have. But getting a 100% read on an experienced player with a known PR is something I'd like. This way people can protect him.

Why do you want his identity to be decided with death, and by scum?? This sounds like a terrible idea. If he's town I want him to live. Under your logic scum would be smarter to let him live, and have us ina few days going wtf, wtf, wtf the hand lives, and maybe mislynch him in lylo. No, lets find out his identity and protect the PR.

Much like axel said. Confirm the experienced neutral read, and attack the poor scummy players.

[Benmage]

People use the word maybe without its exact correct definition. Just like chainsaw. Both yes are reliant on flips. But you can still say buddying.

You are backing him up. Thats buddy in my book.

What word would you use to describe it?

More importantly, and not cleanly addressed by you, what meaning did you intend for the word to have when you used it?

Buddying. In this sense as a scum might do to a town person to get said town persons support. Or as a scum might do with a fellow scum to make the other person, me, feel as I am alone in my beliefs.

[Benmage]

Post 1394 - Benmage: What a bizarre twosome. Why those two?
Post 1396 - Benmage: I thought the same thing, but why specifically rereading him?

1. A confirmed town power role, or a free lynch essentially confirming or finding a scum in some scummy player.(As pretty much said a lot by now)
2. He died and flipped scum...

Post 1405 - Benmage: I said this yesterday and you dismissed it. Why the change of heart?

I don't even recall. But I can lookup what occurred and guesstimate if you like.

[Benmage]

@Benmage and Axel

– If you both are so worried about players who are viewed as Pro-Town why are you not also suggesting Mina be the Worship investigation target?

Who said Mina is town?

This would in my book yield Rich, Thor, Percyx2, Me. As town, which is pretty damn powerful.

You are including Rich who you earlier basically called a waste in your Power group? Funny, just because you have started actually providing content please don’t assume everyone thinks you are Town. Your Day 1 and most of Day 2 was horrible.

Yeah Rich is confirmed. So I don't need to bother scrutinizing him. I thought my first 20 pages, or most of D1 rocked. I just got caught up in shit towards the end. Now horrible is an overstatement unless by horrible you mean better than most people in this game, than sure. Look at my play in it's totality. Yes I'm town. And yes most people who are also town, probably think this by now.

[Benmage]

At some point you have to stop relying on PRs to win the game and do some actual scum/town hunting.

Tssssss pointless jab statement that moves this discussion and game no where near forward. I'd play mountainous only setups if that was the norm.

I mean, this discussion is starting to deteriorate into theory because we now have a new part of the equation in Locke Lamora to help clear things up, but I stand by my statement that what you're proposing is sub-optimal play.

Agree in the pointless-ness of this discussion. Disagree that my play was incorrect.

FWIW, I called the SSBF/MacCavityLock shenanigans on day 1:

So did jvw if I recall.

[Benmage]

7. Benmage

I never voted for him to be hand.

This is the second time you've said this. Why is it important for you to establish this?

People's memories are like goldfish. Nothing wrong with repetition, is there?

I'm looking over Dana's posts today. And I find myself mostly ambivilent about them. They are not overtly scummy per se, but at the same time, don't have that "townie shining through" quality about them either. Dana is clearly disgruntled, but whether disgruntled town or scum is kind of up in the air. I'm not moving my vote because I'd still be satisfied with this lynch today, I don't like the claim much and Dana's play around the Raivann lynch still looks bad, but I'm also going to try and see if there's anyone who I'd really like to lynch more before the deadline hits.

Kinda feeling similar sentiment with re-readin since the stabbing...But I'm uncertain.

Hmm. I have a stronger gut-scum read of Benmage than Axelrod in this exchange, but scum on both.

Why so long to comment here, cause of dana's flip? You think I'm a lannister...Lol, did anyone campaign dan's lynching more than I did? WOW, so glad you're hand and probably not getting confirmed (insert massive sarcasm)

Since we can now agree that the reason is

to hide a potential scum read of mine

. How scummy of a move by me to withhold this do you think it is?

Just wanted to point out that this wasn't the point of the question LMP was asking you. It was that, as scum, not claiming who you stabbed prevents you from locking into a scumread, which is a good thing for scum - not that you might have a motive to hide an existant scumread.

Thanks for reitierating what was already known .. I was asking how scummy of a move that is.

I'm running out of time. I have to get back to my research, and this post is long enough. I'm going to re-read Benmage ASAP and get on the wagon analysis I was talking about.

Please do come back, and talk more about me, maybe with some substance this time. Because I'm tired of seeing my name under suspicion. Or now just a point of interest.

[Benmage]

FYI Melisandre the killer of Renly, does not scream town to me.

[Benmage]

TL/DR BOOOOOM

Seriously, am I confirmed yet? VPB read, this is real. I opened today asking for Percy to be the one to step forward. I've never declared him his glorious town as many others did.(Does that count as scum hunting?) I voted Raivan when it was him or CMaR. I clashed with I doubt it, and I campaigned against dana.

You were so die hard against anyone thinking of bringing Percy forward. I don't think I'll be able to get my head past this without confirming you.

I think Macavitar should be the most worthy one.

[Benmage]

Oh now that we have a flip, is my usage of buddying correct

[Benmage]

2. He died and flipped scum...

I know he died and flipped scum, but why did his interactions with i doubt it specifically make you think he wasn't Lannister?

It was idoubtits interactions with him. Basically tunneled him all day.

@Mina

, I wouldn't mind a cow case, and think it necessary to get a majority on him.

[Benmage]

You guys have never left mafia on and left your computer

[Benmage]

@Cow

Did you want me to go back and look at when you gave me that meager bullet list of why SSBF is scummy. Yeah sure that one point on going back and forth on Raivain is the one decent point there. I'll look in to it. Which is more or less what I replied to when it was suggested he was a Greyjoy, it might have even been your comment which I was thinking of when I said others named him scummy for those actions.

But looking at your iso and how you hold dana on the sideline calling him scummy but refuse to take action there and pursue SSBF makes me think you are a Lannister. It looks very similar to the way I doubt it also acted. Keeping dana on the backburner calling him scum, but not acting on it.

I'd be happy with Macav, Mina, or Cow stepping forward. Cow mostly now.

[Benmage]

Benmage, it worries me that I agree with you.

Why, I've had good reads this game.

I'm sad I wasn't thought to join the kings guard damn hippies.

[Benmage]

But looking at your iso and how you hold dana on the sideline calling him scummy but refuse to take action there and pursue SSBF makes me think you are a Lannister. It looks very similar to the way I doubt it also acted. Keeping dana on the backburner calling him scum, but not acting on it.

I've been on SSBF all game. I'm not going to move from my top suspicion without good reason.

I'm not sold. The bullet case was nothing special. And I felt like I had to pull teeth to get you to campaign for someone your so convinced is scum. I want you to step forward. If you check out, I'd probably be fine with letting thor blow him away tomorrow.

[Benmage]

I meant I want us to vote you for the cop thing.

[Benmage]

Yeah I think we might as well just dayvig vezo tomorrow.

[Benmage]

Why aren't you stepping forward Locke? The quicker everyone steps forward, the quicker we can get our free cop scan, which makes this game less likely to die between now and the time of the scan.

Locke's pretty damn confirmed right now. We're not gonna make him most worthy so this is really null, but I see no reason why he can't step forwrd.

That said I think most of us will rest more easily with Cow stepping forward. He seems fine with it, and yes it may add more credit to his reads.

Assuming we have no juicy interactions tomorrow we should leave Vezo to be dayvigged tomorrow by Thor, who seems to want this guy dead, so win win.

Continuing, we now need to come up with a likely lynch for today. It's the weekend, so not sure how much I can accomplish, but I'll get cracking into this asap.

[Benmage]

NO MORE LIGHTING CANDLES WE NEED 9 TOTAL FOR THIS TO WORK

[Benmage]

Wait can we switch candles?

MOD

??

[Benmage]

Let's investigate cow.

This is where is should go.

Let me hear people count off so we can get nine in favor of this:

I want to light a candle for Cow....1

[Benmage]

I can't really say the whole LARGE CAP POSTING in panic when the answer was plain in the original post makes me confident that you are really paying close attention Ben.

I appreciate the unnecessary sarcasm Magna, but douse almost seems like "no lynch" rather than unvote, but you are probably right.

[Benmage]

I also just rolled outta bed after a couple hours of sleep and a hard night of boozing to skim and see it going on and to see 2 different candle lightings, so ya I panic'd for a second...Sue me I'm more confirmed than rich over there.

[Benmage]

Counting Vezo, thats 3. Moar Willing

[Benmage]

I'm willing to reveal hascow as well, but I wanna wait for a paraphrase of the N2 Kingsquard discussion before we do this.

Didn't Mina do this?

Thats 5 for cow.

[Benmage]

Light Candle for Cow

Lets do this.

[Benmage]

List of People Who Didn't Step Forward Immediately

:

• Benmage
• diddin
• SSBF
• Rifka
• RichardGHP (acceptable, IMO)
• Myself
• Locke
• Macavitar

It's worth noting that most people mentioned in there

did

Step Forward, between 2-4 posts into the day. Just throwing that out there in case you want to jump to some more stupid conclusions.

I dislike what this may suggest for it is out of context. Once it was said for all to step forward I know I atleast did not hesitate, which one may infer by reading this post. Just cause you showed up late to the party and followed the trend doesn't make us go "yayyyy mikujin."

I appreciate the unnecessary sarcasm Magna, but douse almost seems like "no lynch" rather than unvote, but you are probably right.

I don’t think the sarcasm was unnecessary. You’ve made several statements today along the lines that your experience and thoughts were superior to other players’. I think the implication of douse candle (indicating snuffing a previously lit candle) was crystal clear. Your reaction struck me as not what I would expect from Town who wanted to be a leading voice in steering the Town.

This seems like unnecessary undermining for I said, which I’ll just take as you not caring about or ignoring, that I had just woken up and was still hazy. I rushed my thoughts there and tried to stop what I thought was a bad thing happening. I often scan for highlights of things I missed. Bolds, Mod stuff, mentioning’s about me…Then I go back for a more thorough read. When I saw the lightings for the wrong people I got overly nervoused and acted, but came to my own senses a post later.

I will lead this town. It looks like the cow thing is going to plan. That’ll yield him lock, thor, rich, myself and Mina as town (Yeah My read on Mina has been a rollercoaster, but right now with the Kingsguard released info I believe her to be town). With a few other decent reads our pool is greatly narrowed.

Tomorrow, Thor will kill Vezo and hopefully locke will be doc’d/not rb’d and have something juicy for us.


As for the remainder of today I too will look into a few things for who will be our most advantageous lynch.

You actually don’t seem to be playing to your meta, which is ironic for its something you’ve called me out on. If it wasn’t for the fact that I like most of your reads I might be more worried. Although as I’ve said scum have the luxury in this game of doing real scumhunting to look town. So you haven’t/won’t go completely unnoticed. (That said I do think you’re town I just don’t see the effort of scum-hunting/cases making I’ve seen elsewhere)

[Benmage]

EBWOP: Miku put himself in his list. Still dislike the context.

[Benmage]

Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?

Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)

[Benmage]

Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?

Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)

Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.

I said I have to go back and read him several times. You wait until someone dies? So you have perfect reads of everyone living? Oh wait, than why would you have to go back and read them when they die...conundrum. I've been meaning to look at him for awhile, but I keep putting my attention elsewhere. With the growing wagon on him he seems to be a boosted priority.

[Benmage]

Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?

Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)

Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.

I said I have to go back and read him several times. You wait until someone dies? So you have perfect reads of everyone living? Oh wait, than why would you have to go back and read them when they die...conundrum. I've been meaning to look at him for awhile, but I keep putting my attention elsewhere. With the growing wagon on him he seems to be a boosted priority.

Where do you feel you've spent the majority of your attention?

Finding out who is scum, and who is not. What have you done with your time?

[Benmage]

@Unsight

, do you iso living players?

[Benmage]

@Unsight,

You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?

[Benmage]

@Unsight,

You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?

In smaller games, definitely.

In larger games, I ISO the dead, followed by my suspects, followed by whoever else I can fit in. Time is the only limiting factor. Sometimes I can do everyone, sometimes it's only the first six people. No reason not to if I have the opportunity.

Ah yes time is always the problem.

Let us review: You complain about me going to iso SSBF, simply because you as a subjective person prefer to iso at the start of the day, giving time constraints. And would in an ideal situation iso everyone. Starting with dead to prime suspects and so on and so forth.

Now I said my attention has been elsewhere, but that I have been meaning to/wanting to iso SSBF. Sounds like a time issue on my side, no?

Now as we, who are constrained by time, finally get free moments we must choose how to best use our time to be most advantageous. Would not a rolling wagon on someone one has desired to refer to be a good use of this time?

[Benmage]

The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.

(Note this is part of a grand process)

SSBF's opening game and commitment in simple activity/substance gives me indications of town alignment.

Iso 28 speaks wonders to SSBF being town/not Lannister (I doubt it, dana scum list)

Interactions with Percy seem null.

Defends me vs I dobut it, iso post 36. It is now impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.

Post 39 scumlist dangerous indicator of Greyjoy.

Raise of Percy iso 51…. a little too lovey dovey to be a scum partner?

FoS Raivain iso 52. (Note accusation) Continued accusation iso 53. Iso 54 HoS.

Iso 56 further nails in coffin with SSBF not being Lannister.

Iso 57 Votes Raivann over CMaR as an option. Doesn’t seem like a Greyjoy move if you ask me.

Iso 60 is start of next day.

(Pausing to look at Percy iso)
Percy iso 7 calling out SSBF defense of me referencing the defender as the scum person. Would Percy of called out his partner in this fashion?

iso 8 further negativity towards SSBF
iso 13 commentary.

Now Percy bussed Raivann enough to say maybe he’d act similarly with SSBF, but the SSBF interactions read differently than the Raivann ones if you ask me. Let’s look further:
Opening Reasoning as to why I am doubtful SSBF will be todays lynch. (Note this is a grand work in progress)

iso 20 next day, working with SSBF vs dana. Flip floppy with a scum partner hes trying to bus?

Iso 23 reads aggressive towards SSBF. Is this busing like that with Raivann….maybe.

Iso 24 Percy breaksdown the SSBF vezo case. Concludes in SSBF section that he is getting scummier and scummier. Now there’s bussing, and crusading. Would Percy be a forerunner in pushing his partners scumminess. He’s already lost his GF does he think he can win this one alone?

Iso 29 comes back in from a relative v/la with guns still blazing in the SSBF direction.

Percy Iso 34 Section 3 Wagon Analysis (see I love isoing people…you learn so much) He calls out the people on SSBF wagon for likely being Lannisters to save their GF….Oh and look where I doubt it was. Let’s not ignore the others on it for future Lannister connections.

Prior to death SSBF is still in his camp for being a Greyjoy.

[Benmage]

What is the purpose of addressing Mina specifically here?

She was addressing him.... These side questions of yours Unsight seem without purpose.

[Benmage]

If it we were just starting Day 2. Midway through Day 3, not so much. It's reasonable that you would have a read on SSBF that doesn't require an immediate ISO. That's what makes it problematic.

Saying "gonna go iso him" now sounds like you were ignoring him up until now.

More or less the underlined is true.

As for where attention was also elsewhere today was getting through the whole lighting ceremony, and as we mentioned; time, which I am now using and maybe done with atm with SSBF.

[Benmage]

He was talking to Miku and pointing it out to Mina.

He quotes Mina.

[Benmage]

The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.

(Note this is part of a grand process)

The person you paid so little attention to that you had to go ISO them only because they're now the main wagon, you don't want to lynch. Shocking.

Let's not play Cat n Mouse Unsight. What is shocking? Do not be subtle in your next post.

Where do you think my motives are?

What alignment do you believe me to be?

[Benmage]

Time is of the essence young one. The longer you wait the worse you look.

[Benmage]

I see a pattern of you pushing against lynching him

and of saying you haven't read him. That's why I pressed regarding your ISO post. A week later and you still haven't read him? Really?

Yes, because I didn't have a scum read on him whereas others did. My lack of scum read gave me little desire to review him before the many other things I've been doing/want to do. So a week is null if hes low on my priority list. But he was nonetheless always on my agenda and now being the leading wagon (and me without concrete direction(although this is changing)) he moved up in priority.

As for your motives and alignment, I haven't had a scum read on you but your treatment of him looks a lot like Scum/Scum or Scum/Town.

In the second am I the scum or am I the town?

[Benmage]

You're the scum

. Defending someone while not having read them is a knowing-too-much tell regardless of the defendee's alignment.

Ahhh so let's embellish this.

Surely you have an amazing read on me. You must've iso'd me twice now, or at the very least once.

Please state the case on me being scum. Feel free to rehighlight the wishy washy SSBF stuff, but I'm look at/for the other things you provide. Also feel free to name anything that might cause you pause to think I'm town. If of course you stumble onto any of that, or I mean simply state what you already know seeing as you don't need to iso. Thank you.

[Benmage]

So regardless of how many others had a scum read on him, it still took you this long to get around to rereading him?

Quite true. After all I am the best here.

[Benmage]

Benmage can lay off the attitude anytime. Maybe that's fun for him, but it's not really fun for anyone else. (or, I suppose I don't know, maybe everyone else thinks it's great and it's just me).

Alright so I throw in an unnecessary quip here and there, see 2nd sentence 1663. But what do you think of my dealings with unsight?

What is your impression on Unsight?

[Benmage]

Hacked to pieces does not sound like Arya Stark.

[Benmage]

The killing of Raivann makes sense as a CC to a claimed Vig.

Dayvig, Night vig....I can't help but think theres an SK in the two. And Hacked to pieces sounds so brutal.

[Benmage]

Hired to kill himself...suicide? That makes no sense. SBBF is saying nothing about that. Hrmmmmm

[Benmage]

I agree that the claim looks bogus. I get the feeling he copy pasted his SK flavour and changed the name to town vig. Thats why the mod was pissed at him, or he copied a fake claim

Vote SSBF

Sooo you think Arya would be an SK?

I think he could've copied a fake claim. Although when dana and raiv fake claimed they made sure to say innocent alinged, thor and locke did not. (Granted neither did percy). SSBF doesn't either.

As far as SSBF is so scummy...I thought the lead scum check against him was his wierd relation to Raiv, which now is null if we believe him to be the SK. I'm so torn, but Hacked to pieces sounds impossible for Arya.

unvote vote SSBF

[Benmage]

Attention there is no need to rush this day early. If more people pile on SSBF please bring him to L-1, but don't rush the hammer.

Still want to do a few things in life, for I fear this may be my last day .

[Benmage]

No one likes pet SK?
No one believes possibility of Vig?

I am so torn here....We going to kill a guy whose NK'd 2 scum?? I almost think we should give him another night.

[Benmage]

Sooo you think Arya would be an SK?

I had her pegged as a possible SK character from my initial read through on SOIAF wiki.

Having her aligned against Robb Stark, Jon Snow. Yeah right.

[Benmage]

Arya used Needle, a tiny little dagger that couldn't hack anything to pieces. She's 9 yrs old for cryin out load. It's a fakeclaim.

[Benmage]

@SSBF

if we are to let this claim unravel and see if you continue to act town-y are you willing to kill from a short list including people like:

#1Vezo.....CSL....etc etc?

[Benmage]

@miku - I'll come to you later today when I get some time. Apparently my ginormous ego isn't finished with you yet.

The town aint big enough for two giganto egos!

[Benmage]

I guess 4-4 with one SK?

This is what I was thinking.

[Benmage]

right now id say atleast 5 scum alive.

So 2-2-1 left?

[Benmage]

I like post 1725.

Unvote

I'm leaning Vezo myself because the claim shenanigans is too much. But you do what you gotta do.

[Benmage]

About the kill choices, I can kill whoever I want to kill, it is my own choice. That said, I am willing to kill either vezokpiraka or CSL, leaning toward CSL.

No, you won't. You'll kill who town tells you to kill or you'll be lynched. Plain and simple.

Easy buddy, aggression where aggression is due. Follow my lead . SSBF already agreed to the list of choices, and cow in the mix dependent on cop thing makes sense.

[Benmage]

Terrible idea to have locke on vezo who will die tonight by SSBF or tomorrow by thor.

Macav or Magna are much better options. But lets let Locke do his thing. (Who will most likely be RB'd regardless, and who I'm hoping is alive tomorrow, gogo doc!)

[Benmage]

3-3-3 Doubtful. Who, Stannis? Doubtful with a Melisandra fakeclaim. Loras flip rules out Highgarden/Renly.

The NK's also don't hint to this. Plus than a scum team could technically be knocked out D2 with all the killing possibilities.

I think 4-4-1 (Maybe 4-4 if we believe SSBF) is right because even tho the anti-town roles may be a bit heavy it is balanced with many evident town PR's and the chance of crosskilling.

[Benmage]

Arya Stark is a 10-year-old girl. But yes, I suppose calling her aggressive is fair. It's just really, really hard to picture her hacking anyone to pieces.

None of her kills in the books are hacked to pieces. There is only one I think she stabs a couple times with her dagger.

Someone said this sounded more like the Mountain that Moves...and I'd believe that.

But flavors flavor, I'm not gonna get hung up on it. Mines not the best. SSBF has killed two scum and is willing to kill those undesirable players.

[Benmage]

My counter is I don't want to lynch him today if who he's going to kill is vezo or CSL tonight. Does that make sense as well? Neither slot is very helpful to town right now, and removing them will be a boon in my opinion - third kill or no.

This, because we'd potentially be wasting day lynches on these people. So if they can be NK'd, than good.

[Benmage]

I'll try and throw some more love this way. Deadline is the 11th, a ways away. But we don't wanna rush. So expect some direction in the next few days.

[Benmage]

EBWOP: I mean have a rushed lynch too close to deadline. We have time, but we can't waste it.

[Benmage]

Lot of work to do in this thread. And this day may be more crucial than we think. I'm still in the impression its 4-4 (1?) which leaves 2-2-(1?) left in my book. More to come with this. I kinda want to do a lot here. I'm look at worse case scenarios for town. Thats is both CSL/Vezo turn out to be VI's when Night/dayviged. I'm thinking myself and one of the other more confirmed townies could also likely bite it. So I'm gonna see if we can nail a scum and not leave anything unaccounted for before nights on us.

I iso'd Magna in Harry Potter KoL and here. To try and get some mini meta reads...I'm not sure I see links to both scum and town play which is probably normal considering people dont have drastic shifts in playstyle. I'm not sold on either. There are some things in her play that has concerned me, but overall I just don't like the fact that she doesn't scream town to me, and I've got a poor gut read on her. (Hence all the isoing) I think she could be Greyjoy. But who knows...lots more to look at today.

Here's some minor notes I took on MoI:

MoI iso 11. The breakdown puts her vote on CMaR. Leaves it open-ended to be down with a Raivann lynch to ensure a days lynch. It’s a gut read here, but I don’t like this post.

Also I don’t like this additional defense in her next post:

I have a Q for everyone wagoning CMAR. That is, have you done a sitewide ISO on this player especially in games like ''go play in traffic''? This is looking suspiciously like a policy lynch. How are you distinguishing scum-CMAR from town-CMAR in this situation?

Why does a player’s behaviour in this particular game warrant the need to Meta him? Scummy behaviour is scummy behaviour. Your defence of CMAR invoking tainted phrases like “policy lynch” is worth noting for the future.

Connection with Percy reads like Harry Potters game with RC.


Unnecessary undermining of me, iso 28/32



That said I think the course of today will be Unsight

Vote Unsight

Moar to come.

[Benmage]

I appreciate you made the effort to purposely screw with my gender in an attempt to provoke a reaction. Nice touch.

I didn't know you were a guy noted.

[Benmage]

Miku is next, coming relatively shortly, I gotta go do some errands. After him/rest of weekend don't expect much.

[Benmage]

Mikujin iso, rough pbpa:
0-rvs(selfraise)
1-fluff
2-Votes rich unraises to scan missing pages. (But is good to vote?)
3- fluff 4-fluff
5- Catch up post after falling some 15 pages behind. unvotes, unraises,….Goes on to state why Percy makes best hand candidate. Follows with a case on Vezo.
6- defends his Vezo case.
7- ML calls out miku for tunneling. Miku defends himself not wanting to make his catchup post unnecessarily long (weak reasoning imo) Goes on to accuse danakillsu(nothing special here).
8- fluff… fluff –top town in order Percy, Dripp, ML.
9- Defends attack by Cow for naming town people. Deflects to Percy’s play. Ad hom fluff. 3. Talks about fakeclaims, not believing Rich. (Maybe he has a fake claim)
10- fluff
11- Called out by xvart for vezo case. Shows 180/inconsistency with Raivann and votes him.
12- Highlights Kleedrac/Raiv cases.
13- Continues to hound Raivann.
14- fluff 15-fluff 16-fluff 17-fluff
18- active lurking? Still prefers Raiv over CMaR.
19- fluff
20- unvotes following Raiv’s claim, votes CMaR.
21-fluff-22-fluff-fluff-24-fluff
25- further R-hate.
26- Likes Percy’s case on dana, votes dana.
27- Semi-strong/semi-weak call out on Dripp.
28- fluff 29- fluff
30- calls out Drip some more, thinks Mina is town.
31-fluff 32-fluff
33- anti SSBF fluff
34- Answer to ML about bussing that hard in her early Mafia career.
35- Mini V/La(4 day post break)/fluff
36- Anti-CSL/dana
37- fluff 38- fluff 39-fluff 40-fluff
41-***9 day post break (over night phase too) wants to light candle for SSBF
42- Vig SSBF, lynch Vezo pending Percy result
43- fluff
44- Steps forward
45- Foolish post. Lights candle cow.
46- fluff 47-fluff 48-fluff
49- votes SSBF
50- Doesn’t like SSBF’s claim nor using him as an SK
51- meh 52- fluff 53-fluff 54-fluff

Conclusion: Buddies Percy

+1 Greyjoy

(Everyone buddied Percy ). Early Attacks Raivann -1 Greyjoy. Early Attacks danakillsu -1 Lannister. Never mentions anything about I doubt it +.5 Lannister.

Barely talks with xvart. Barely talks with diddin. Barely talks with Axelrod. Barely talks with Magna. Could be interesting to see distancing if any of these people flip baddd. Goes after the VI’s a lot.

Started game slow. Picked it up…has trailed off again.

Nothing glaring scummy, nor glaring town.

Anyone got something more juicy on Miku that I missed? Right now it looks like we're better looking elsewhere.

[Benmage]

Benmage, did you do one on Unsight?

If not, I suggest you do one.

Why can't you...I didn't do anything brilliant there, my weekends about to go ludicrous speed.

[Benmage]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't LynchMePls' vote hammer CMAR? Aren't we supposed to stop with the banter?

@Lock:

All you're doing is saying you have "results" that indicate Percy is "anti-town." Forgive my skepticism, but are you softclaiming cop? And if you are/are not, to what extent is Percy anti-town (scum/third-party)? I only make the inquiry because you seem to be holding your tongue, which hasn't exactly been your style in the past. (For instance: in the past you've usually made your case and voted right away, but not this time.)

What about these two benmage? All you said was ''25- further R-hate.'' and ''42- Vig SSBF, lynch Vezo pending Percy result''. Plus his iso 1 and attacking drippereth scum hunting. You didnt even mention #23?

I don't see whats so special about what you quoted? 23 must've gotten backspaced but it was fluff.