Newbie 962 (Game Over!)

[Kleedrac]

Evidently I had forgotten to unvote my joking vote on AKR earlier. And as a general rule I agree that FOS is situationally useful at best (closer to lylo and such) So given these two facts and Cove's pointing to a very late stage of an old game (when he said in his answering of Robo's questions is when his playstyle differs) I'm going to go ahead and;

Unvote
Vote Cove

And I'd also like to wish a happy birthday to Robo

[Tidher]

As I suppose it's only fair that I answer Robo's questions as well (my responses in

green

):

1. Where you from?

Portsmouth, UK (GMT+1, as we're in summer time now)

2. Coke or Pepsi?

Neither, but if pushed I'd choose Coca Cola (at least give it it's full name)

3. Are you nervous?

A little...AQUA seems to have been off to a bad, lurky start, which isn't a good thing in my mind for newbie games.

4. Whats your playstyle?And if you've never played before what would you do in a panicky situation?

Marginal lurker, and extreme loudmouth. I'll generally only post in response to people's questions or if I have something to add, rather than posting for the sake of it. I'll call people out, make obscure references to posts pages upon pages back if they contradict what someone just said, and generally be a pain in the arse. I've played two games of Mafia before (both themed, and on an entirely different forum), and it worked well (PR townie both times), the town had won by the end of Day 3 in both cases. Also, I'm involved in a number of games where being able to read a bit in to what people actually mean and make a strong argument is very handy.

5. Are you excited to play?

Very. Loved playing it way-back-when, so while I'm not overly enthused about

this

game (definitely prefer those with a bit more flavour), it's a stepping stone to better things. Naturally, I'll be giving it my all.

6. Lynch all lurkers?

To a point. Most people lurk at some point, whether due to real-life commitments or not having much to contribute. That said, if you're asked for an opinion and just give fluff or don't make an effort to stop lurking, it's a definite FoS from me.

7. Lynch all Liars?

Depends what they're lying about. Lying when being asked to roleclaim at L-1 is generally a bit pointless, and lying about why you said something in an earlier post is counter-productive, so while I wouldn't lynch based on it straight-off, it'd make me question everything said thereafter.

Bit vague on the extremes, I realise, but everything is situational and depends on exactly what's going on. Still...gives you some insight in to me.

[AKnottedRope]

generally be a pain in the arse

[/quote]

[Remy]

You can't build a solid case on anybody after 3 pages. The approach to mafia should be iterative:

-vote based on something (could be random, could be something weak, whatever is available when you first post)
-re-evaluate after you see a response (if you see a response)
-place vote on most likely target at that time (might be the same person, might not be)
-gauge reactions
-re-evaluate and vote
-keep doing this until you hit something solid

I don't see people jumping in and doing the first or second steps. I'm after going through 5 or 6 steps, and I'd be further if I could see a reaction from GroupThink.

Since I am new to the game, I am going to take this advice from one of the two SE's (the only one who seems to be doing much posting at all) and start at step 1.

Vote: vrtra

Because he has only posted twice so far in the whole thread, and hasn't contributed much of anything to the discussion despite being one of the more "experienced" players who is supposed to be helping us newbies learn how to play. Why lurk, unless you are scum?

[Remy]

Unvote, Vote: Remy
A newbie scum would be likely to be looking for things to jump out at people for, and this seems like a good case of it.

Coincidentally vrtra happens to be voting for me, and based on step 2 of Cove's list I guess I am supposed to respond to this? Though I already saw someone get called out for being "defensive." I am not quite sure how to defend myself without being defensive!

Anyway, I am simply looking for SOME reason to vote for a person at this point. Isn't that what we are all trying to do? Otherwise it is just a lengthy lottery. I don't see how looking for some evidence to use against a person when I place my vote (you called it "jump[ing] out at people") would point to me being scum. Townies are constantly looking for any bit of evidence to use in a conviction, if they want to lynch the right people and win the game.

[Tidher]

After re-reading the thread:

vote: Kleedrac

. My reasons are:

• Post #25
  : Entirely random (well...based on the fact that someone likes Pepsi) vote, when people are already making slightly more constructive comments. Not a huge issue, but a bit off for an SE.
  
  
• Post #48
  : Pointing out that vanilla townies haven't got anything to claim other than vanilla townie (pretty obvious), so basically fluff. Also, the flawed logic (at least in my mind) in the following:

  ...effectively just gives the scum on the block opportunity to claim doc/cop without too much fear as it's

  not a terrible gambit

  by any means.

  I'm hoping we won't take 3 weeks to come to an accord on who to lynch

  but at the same time setting a deadline that far away may as well be no deadline at all and certainly not as effective as a deadline a week away...

  Surely if scum are put at L-1 and they claim a townie PR (power role), if we
  do
  have the same townie power role then they've marked themselves as scum straight off. Sure, it's 50/50, but in such a situation I could imagine the following happening (assuming it's not LyLo):

  Person A (L-1 scum): Okay, so I'm being asked for a role-claim...I'm the doctor. Seems I'm going to die tonight now that I've said that, but at least you can lynch someone who's actually scum...
  Person B (doctor): I'm role-claiming the doctor, and there's only enough room for the one of us...*cue hammering*

  Worst case scenario for town at that point is that Person B is bussing (I believe that's the correct term?), but then they've got another problem of the
  actual
  doctor coming forwards...bit of a WIFOM moment (again, think that's the right term?), but it narrows it down to the scum being two out of three of the people who just role-claimed.
  
  Basically, scum claiming a town PR while at L-1 is risky, and not sure a 50/50 chance of death, albeit with the possible benefit of finding the PR who you claim for your surviving scumbuddy to kill that night, is worth it. I haven't got all that much Mafia experience under my belt (the game, not the role), but this sounds like a definite gambit if the scum try it.
  
  In reference to the second bolded point, discussion is always good, and a scum lynch on day 1 is an awesome benefit for the town. The more material we have to work with, the better.
  
  
• Post #76
  : In defence of AKR's mention of Post #48 (which I don't
  entirely
  agree with, but definitely a fan of promoting discussion), Klee makes two (in my mind) slip ups: first, see my comments on Post #48 for why backing up the logic is wrong; secondly: role-claiming vanilla townie, which does nothing to help the town (and possibly narrows down the PR targets for the scum, unless you're lying about it, which I wouldn't approve of anyway).
  
  
• Post #79
  : Possibly a typo, but also possibly a slip of the tongue when he writes "I'm vanilla scum" instead of "I'm vanilla townie".
  
  
• Post #83
  : Points FoS at Cove for "trying too danged hard". Putting pressure on people (as Cove mentioned in the previous post) is a definite way to get reactions at this stage in the game, so (as Cove was nowhere near a lynch), voting rather than FoSing would have been better.
  
  
• Post #100
  : Votes Cove. Doesn't mention why he changes to a vote rather than a FoS, which leads me to believe he's trying to conform to what the town want. As an SE, I can't really put that down as a "newbie error".

Earlier than planned, but revision gets boring after a while...hope that'll do nicely for a first analysis. Any comments on this, Klee?

[Tidher]

EBWOP: Just re-read what I wrote, and realise that I should clarify the second to last paragraph of my analysis of Post #48.

Basically, scum claiming a town PR while at L-1 is risky, and not sure a 50/50 chance of death, albeit with the possible benefit of finding the PR who you claim for your surviving scumbuddy to kill that night, is worth it. I haven't got all that much Mafia experience under my belt (the game,

though also

the role), but this sounds like a definite gambit if the scum try it.

Just realised that it could be read two ways. I initially meant it as a means of clarifying that I hadn't played that much Mafia. A possible interpretation of the bracketed bit was that although I didn't have much experience of playing Mafia, I

did

have experience of being scum. As pointed out in Post #101, I've only ever played town roles. Can't back that up with links, unfortunately, as the forums I played Mafia on have long gone...

Before you jump on this as being "defensive", I like to think of it as "clear".

[Kleedrac]

After re-reading the thread: vote: Kleedrac. My reasons are:

• Post #25
  : Entirely random (well...based on the fact that someone likes Pepsi) vote, when people are already making slightly more constructive comments. Not a huge issue, but a bit off for an SE.
  
  
• Post #48
  : Pointing out that vanilla townies haven't got anything to claim other than vanilla townie (pretty obvious), so basically fluff. Also, the flawed logic (at least in my mind) in the following:

  ...effectively just gives the scum on the block opportunity to claim doc/cop without too much fear as it's

  not a terrible gambit

  by any means.

  I'm hoping we won't take 3 weeks to come to an accord on who to lynch

  but at the same time setting a deadline that far away may as well be no deadline at all and certainly not as effective as a deadline a week away...

  Surely if scum are put at L-1 and they claim a townie PR (power role), if we
  do
  have the same townie power role then they've marked themselves as scum straight off. Sure, it's 50/50, but in such a situation I could imagine the following happening (assuming it's not LyLo):

  Person A (L-1 scum): Okay, so I'm being asked for a role-claim...I'm the doctor. Seems I'm going to die tonight now that I've said that, but at least you can lynch someone who's actually scum...
  Person B (doctor): I'm role-claiming the doctor, and there's only enough room for the one of us...*cue hammering*

  Worst case scenario for town at that point is that Person B is bussing (I believe that's the correct term?), but then they've got another problem of the
  actual
  doctor coming forwards...bit of a WIFOM moment (again, think that's the right term?), but it narrows it down to the scum being two out of three of the people who just role-claimed.
  
  Basically, scum claiming a town PR while at L-1 is risky, and not sure a 50/50 chance of death, albeit with the possible benefit of finding the PR who you claim for your surviving scumbuddy to kill that night, is worth it. I haven't got all that much Mafia experience under my belt (the game, not the role), but this sounds like a definite gambit if the scum try it.
  
  In reference to the second bolded point, discussion is always good, and a scum lynch on day 1 is an awesome benefit for the town. The more material we have to work with, the better.
  
  
• Post #76
  : In defence of AKR's mention of Post #48 (which I don't
  entirely
  agree with, but definitely a fan of promoting discussion), Klee makes two (in my mind) slip ups: first, see my comments on Post #48 for why backing up the logic is wrong; secondly: role-claiming vanilla townie, which does nothing to help the town (and possibly narrows down the PR targets for the scum, unless you're lying about it, which I wouldn't approve of anyway).
  
  
• Post #79
  : Possibly a typo, but also possibly a slip of the tongue when he writes "I'm vanilla scum" instead of "I'm vanilla townie".
  
  
• Post #83
  : Points FoS at Cove for "trying too danged hard". Putting pressure on people (as Cove mentioned in the previous post) is a definite way to get reactions at this stage in the game, so (as Cove was nowhere near a lynch), voting rather than FoSing would have been better.
  
  
• Post #100
  : Votes Cove. Doesn't mention why he changes to a vote rather than a FoS, which leads me to believe he's trying to conform to what the town want. As an SE, I can't really put that down as a "newbie error".

Earlier than planned, but revision gets boring after a while...hope that'll do nicely for a first analysis. Any comments on this, Klee?

Interesting. I suppose I can respond but I'm going to tell you right off not only are you on the wrong track but you're clearly over-analysing. In post #25 we were in the random or joke vote phase. If you look earlier I (jokingly) said in my survey that pepsi-lovers are obviously scum, this keeps with the joke.

In post 48 I'm trying to explain that due to the numbers game a fake claim on a townie power role is a 50/50 shot. I didn't then and still don't believe waiting at L-1 for a claim does anything but give the scum one last chance at a way out. I still won't hesitate to drop a hammer on anyone I feel is deserving. Not to mention the odds of a counter-claim work both ways! Should the scum feel its worth sacrificing one of their own numbers to get us to lynch our own doc/cop they can do it and we'll lose another member before we can even lynch the scum who did it! It's bad math and a bad play to allow a claim to be coerced like that and I stand by that position.

In #76 I try to clear up my logic and math so you can understand my position even if you don't want to adopt it. #79 was a typo clear and simple.

In #83 I explain why Cove has made me suspicious and I stand by it. I used FOS when I probably should have used a Vote in the first place. I don't like using FOS before end-game/LYLO but felt that as my suspicion is primarily based on gut-instinct and loose scumtells at best I didn't want to lay the vote right away. But when I found that the FOS was drawing suspicion I exchanged it for a Vote that I still feel confident in.

Should you like any further explanation, just ask.

[AKnottedRope]

I didn't then and still don't believe waiting at L-1 for a claim does anything but give the scum one last chance at a way out. I still won't hesitate to drop a hammer on anyone I feel is deserving.

No. Someone at L-1 should ALWAYS have the opportunity to claim. If not, you risk hitting a power role, especially early in the game. Scum can try to claim a power role, but only have a 50% chance of not being counterclaimed. Even then, after a bit more is known about the roles in the game (both town and scum), a scum's fakeclaim can be discovered.

Not to mention the odds of a counter-claim work both ways! Should the scum feel its worth sacrificing one of their own numbers to get us to lynch our own doc/cop they can do it and we'll lose another member before we can even lynch the scum who did it

Again, no. The lynch of a scum is generally a good trade for a pro-town power role especially early in the game. If one of the scumteam is L-1, claims a PR, and gets counterclaimed, they usually are lynched. If the opposite happens (a pro-town PR claims his role and scum counterclaims) they PR MAY get lynched, but the scum will get insta-lynched the next day. If this happens in Day 1, the ratio between scum and town goes from 2:7 to 1:5 (assuming that the scum don't get blocked N1). That vastly improves the town's chances not to mention demoralizing the scumteam.

At the moment, my read on Klee has shifted to town. He seems to be raising concerns (however fallacious they may be) about gameplay. Cove has moved off my suspect list and my top two suspects remain GT and Vrtra, with robo not far behind.

[vrtra]

Hey all, sorry for an extended absence of my presence within the thread; as perviously stated in this thread it is a busy time of year for students- last week of school next week and only finding time to post late Friday night (I will try my hardest to post at least once a day now). This will be a catch-up post mostly.

I'm liking the activity within the thread as well as the lack of deadweight players.

Kleedrac, your views are quite wrong about what is good for town, however you come across as town to me because of some genuine concern I sense from your posts and flawed arguments.

Vote: vrtra
Because he has only posted twice so far in the whole thread, and hasn't contributed much of anything to the discussion despite being one of the more "experienced" players who is supposed to be helping us newbies learn how to play. Why lurk, unless you are scum?

So, your whole basis for voting me is because I have been "lurking"? I understand (as stated in your next post) that you're looking for SOMETHING to vote SOMEONE for, but the vote seems a little rushed. As for a defense, the only one I can provide when you are purely voting me for lurking is that I will try to find time to post more until finals are done.

Tidher, welcome to the game. Tidher comes off as town for the moment.

AKR is looking pretty bad to me right now. Mainly, he places a FoS on Robo for not voting beyond the RVS stage on page 4. A mafia would try to incite a lot of voting around so it would be easier for him to slip through the cracks and provide vague defense for votes hastily put on him. It is a good way to gauge how the town is. While this isn't a lot of necessarily verifiable and textbook material, it's my own experience from what I've seen / read. Then, he overreacts to a point made by Robo asking him (AKR) and Cove to tone it down a little bit by saying "toning it down= not scumhunting" which isn't what he was saying at all.

Going back to Kleedrac, claiming VT so crazy early is nothing but anti-town, giving scum more potential PR targets; that was quite unwise, but you overall seem to come off as town because of reasons stated above.

I didn't then and still don't believe waiting at L-1 for a claim does anything but give the scum one last chance at a way out. I still won't hesitate to drop a hammer on anyone I feel is deserving.

However, while he may come off as town, this one quote bothers me quite a bit; I'll be keeping a sharp eye on your posting patterns.

Cove, and along with a few other people:
Trying not to sound like a commentator or narrator here, but it seems like a few people are trying to move out with votes/confirm votes and multiple FOS's very early. While your intentions could be different than what they seem, it is very important to consider how you come across towards the other people playing this game with you. Votes are valuable; the most valuable and precious tool town has during the day.

Unvote, Vote: AKnottedRope

AKR seems like the best vote right now, because of his interactions/reactions with Robo and posting style.

[kindred_spirit]

hi Tidher welcome
happy birthday robo

ok it took me a while but here you go

AKnottedRope - he is trying to get dicussion happening. his comment on the busing thing was pretty random tho why would mafia use this gambit so early? the only other game i've played the mafia waited till later in the game to use a gambit. could you explain and help me understand ur thinking please .

GroupThink - i'm abit iffy on GT at the moment. GT's answers to robo's question's were not cool. everyone else had the desency to answer them properly. but he comes along and makes a joke of it. that was his last post and he hasn't said anything since . i would really like for him to answer the questions properly as everyone else has. so i'm going to keep an eye on his future posts

Kleedrac - his claim of being VT this early in the game doesn't seem right. all that can do is help the scum. if he is town then now the scum have one less person to look at for a PR. but if he is in fact scum then who is there to say different. so he was either very smart or silly to make that claim.

Remy - remy voted vrtra for lurking. fair enough you wanted to pick someone but now he is back i'll be intersted in remy's reaction. hopefully i can get a read on his alinement as i'm not sure yet.

Tidher - from his couple of post not to sure but leaning toward town

vrtra - has been quiet but as he said above that is due to RL. i haven't formed ann opinon yet waiting to see if he will be more active and what his interaction with everyone will be like

Cove - like AKR he has been getting discussions happening. which is good for the town. i not to keen on his pushing for people to put votes tho.

for me voting is a serous thing so i would have to have or see that some one else has a pretty strong case before i voted

Robocopter87 - i liked how he got us talking and discussing things with his questions it is good to know where people stand on some issues (eg. lurkers, liars) i think it will help later in the game. other then that i'm not to sure.

[kindred_spirit]

oops sorry remy for saying him instead of her and anyone else. i know how much it pisses me off when people think i'm a guy

[GroupThink]

Anyway, I am simply looking for SOME reason to vote for a person at this point. Isn't that what we are all trying to do? Otherwise it is just a lengthy lottery. I don't see how looking for some evidence to use against a person when I place my vote (you called it "jump[ing] out at people") would point to me being scum. Townies are constantly looking for any bit of evidence to use in a conviction, if they want to lynch the right people and win the game.

I want to win the game.

unvote; vote Remy

---

6. Honestly no, unless the mafia is retarded and can't read, then they aren't going to lurk when a lot of people are saying "lynch lurkers".

They're also going to read everything else you post and adjust accordingly.

---

GT ur answers to robo's question's were not cool everyone else has answered properly. then you come along and makes a joke of it. i would really like for you answer the questions properly as everyone else has.

lol

In other words, I think your not being very wise with your voting power. Please provide a case on group.

"He didn't answer the questions right..!" "He's being shady and mysterious..!" "He doesn't drink Coke...!" It gets old.

[Cove]

mod: V/LA until Tuesday. If I'm lucky it won't be that long

[AKnottedRope]

AKR is looking pretty bad to me right now. Mainly, he places a FoS on Robo for not voting beyond the RVS stage on page 4

(1)

. A mafia would try to incite a lot of voting around so it would be easier for him to slip through the cracks and provide vague defense for votes hastily put on him

(2)

. It is a good way to gauge how the town is

(3)

. While this isn't a lot of necessarily verifiable and textbook material, it's my own experience from what I've seen / read

(4)

. Then, he overreacts to a point made by Robo asking him (AKR) and Cove to tone it down a little bit by saying "toning it down= not scumhunting" which isn't what he was saying at all

(5)

.

(Numbers correspond to the sentence preceding them)
1) Like I said before, the vote is our most powerful scumhunting tool. In my opinion, not using it is not helping the town. Like cove said, it gets reactions and moves the game along. Stagnant games help scum.
2) Uh... what?
3)Again, what?
4) Link, please
5) Two things: First, this is a severe misrepresentation of what I said. I never said that him saying to tone it down is asking us to not scumhunt, but that asking me to tone it down is AKIN to asking me not to scumhunt. Second: I didn't find him scummy for that comment, neither did I overreact to it, I was just explaining my position.

Now Vrtra, why did you feel the need to defend robo in such a way?

----

In other news, GroupThink is still scum. Please post a case against remy, and respond to all that I have asked/said about you (going all the way back to my post 12, which you have STILL ignored)

[AKnottedRope]

I never said that him saying to tone it down is asking us to not scumhunt, but that asking me to tone it down is AKIN to asking me not to scumhunt

Upon reading, this isn't very clear. I was trying to explain to robo that him asking me to tone down my usage of votes was like telling me not to scumhunt because that's my method. I use reactions to gauge others, and votes definitely get reactions. I think that's a little clearer.

[AKnottedRope]

. his comment on the busing thing was pretty random tho why would mafia use this gambit so early? the only other game i've played the mafia waited till later in the game to use a gambit. could you explain and help me understand ur thinking please .

Sorry, didn't see this. Bussing is possible D1 if one scum thinks his partner is too inexperienced or will otherwise be a detriment to their team, which I could have seen between Cove and GT.

[kindred_spirit]

ok cool that makes more sense now

[Tidher]

@Kleedrac: your responses have stopped you pinging on my scumdar for now, so

unvote

.

@kindred_spirit: not much actual content from your last real post, in my opinion. Mostly just re-iterating what others have mentioned. Likely due to inexperience more than anything, but care to make a bit more of a detailed analysis of anyone's posts? Who do you think is most likely to be scum at the moment?

@GroupThink: not liking your relative lack of detail, though kudos for changing your vote based on recent events. Combined with your seemingly lurking behaviour (may have missed mention of you being busy, so apologies if so). That said...quoting AQUA in your last main post was a bit pointless, as they've been replaced. Unless, of course, you were just discussing game logic?

All I've got for now, as I've got a metric tonne of revision to do for Monday (and Wednesday...and Thursday...and the Monday and Friday after...*sigh*). Will keep checking back, but no promises on me posting for the next day or three.

[Robocopter87]

Welcome Tidher

Groupthink is naturally scummy, his Meta shows it in bright colors, but I'm not saying he can't be scum.

Robo, asking me to tone it down is asking me to not scumhunt. How I get information is by looking for people's reactions, and it seems like it's working (my FoS on you got this reaction, did it not?). I think page four is definitely time enough to place a vote. Unless you're a PR, that's the only power we have, so we might as well use it to the fullest.

Some battles are won by retreating. You totally misintrepreted me. But I'lll let you figure out how you misinterpreted me.

I don't get what your talking about with the PR. PR means powerole. So unless I'm a powerrole, which is the only powerole we have is what I heard. How do you know we only have one powerole and why do you suggest I could be the powerole? And why are you rolefishing on Page four?


You know what?

Vote Aknottedrope

HERES MY CASE!(A few people have forgotten that cases are what makes this game go round')

What I'm about to do is an ISO. Its where I go to the bottom of the page in the little dropbox labeled "All users" and pick AKR and click go. that takes me to AKR's post only. Form there I go through each of his posts and anaylze them.

-ISO#0- Random Vote, though he does so jokely, he does put up the idea for a massclaim. But I can't say anything because I went along with it claiming Double tree stump duck firefighter backup flavor cop.
Null tell

-ISO#1 Already on the offensive, Calls groupthink out for reacting to a random vote. Which in reality Groupthink was just joking and placing a-OMG A JOKE VOTE, IN RVS, LIKE HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?
Scum tell

-ISO#2 Answers my questions.
Null tell

-ISO#3 Tells me to answer my questions, meaning he didn't completly read my post, which ironically I say in that post to read all posts, or he didn't care and felt he ought throw some pressure and suspicion upon me.
Either way, Scum tell-Scum usually don't feel the need to read everything but whatever applies to themselves, because then they might get suspicion. Or if it was option number two then it is naturally scummy.

ISO#4 Null fluff

-ISO#5 Says he looked me up and knows what I'm up to. Smart.
Town tell

-ISO#6 Asks a question on Kindred for a very short answer to my question.
Town tell

-ISO#7 Aks group to answer to his ISO#1 post. I can't believe he was being serious here.
Null, slightly scum tell

-ISO#8 Tells me newbie scum are inclined to active lurk, Lie I already don't know that from being in at least 8 games so far when his experience is textbook info. I was trying to get Kindred to speak but, and this is why I asked him to tone it down, he goes ahead and interrupts and answers for Kindred instead.
Then tells me I need a prime suspect from my case, which, No I don't.

AIMED AT AKR
I must say, AKR should really stop answering peoples question on setups and stuff, because some of it has been false info. Can't you just leave the info giving to the IC and the SE's? Thats kinda what we are here for.

ISO#9 Then when I tell him I don't need one he basically repeats himself saying I must have a suspect. Which I already told him I don't need on like Page 2 or 3.

ISO#10 States that maybe Group is bussing and tunneling. Or perhaps hes doing some good and making an arguement. Oh and group still hasn't responded to my wuestion on why he Joke voted in RVS.
I've stop saying wether or not I thought it was scummy or town or null, I think my opinions are pretty clear.

ISO#11 Though AKR was right about him not having "Settled" on the bussing thats pretty much what he said. It warrants an FoS because your acting scummy.

ISO#12Null

ISO#13 Says he hasn't thrown that much suspicion when he was throwing suspicion on GT and Cove. How do you even say that without having sound completly contraversial?

ISO#14 Says he could see how might have been a little overboard-BUT AQUA AND KINDRED ARE LURKING A LOT.

ISO#15 Rolefishes out Kleed. Says Kleed wouldn't know about wether theres a PR or not unless he was one of the scum and both the scum were goons. In reality, Kleed never said anything that meant he knew wether there was PR but rather he was taling about past experiences. So my "Thoughts on this" were that you were wrong and good at misintrepreting things to throw suspicion.

ISO#16Null

ISO#17 Keeps on going with the Kleed claiminbg to know wether or not there was PRs saying it was scummy. In other words, I still think that he looks scummy because I misntrepreted his quote.

ISO#18 Null

ISO#19Null

ISO#20 Random unvote. What, you just decided your "Gem" was merly a "rock" and tried to stray way from it? Oh and this is a rhetorical question, I don't feel like listening to some lame excuse.

ISO#21 FoS's are pointless, then a few posts later, FoS Robo. The irony.

ISO#22Null

ISO#23 There is some cases, i guess, im trying too but u kno... [/mockimitation]

ISO#24Null

ISO#25 Says that the three people he finds scummiest is GT Vrtra and Cove, GT and Vrtra for lurking and Cove for his confirm vote. O god, have mercy.

ISO#26 Wait! Robo only voted for Remy in RVS and then he unvoted and even though hes been giving a lot of analysis he still hasn't placed a vote ON PAGE FOUR. That deserves suspicion. CAN ANYONE TELL HIM WHATS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?

ISO#27Null

ISO#28 The quote at the top of my post.

The rest of his posts, are these three things
-Dumb
-Stupid
-Dumb

This guys is the most scummiest player by far in this game.
Seriously, most people are listening to him and actually agreeing with what hes saying.
Just because he posts and posts and posts doesn't mean he's town. His lack of an actual case for all his suspicions and most with the worst logic ever makes him scum.

I have to say the most townie focused player here is GT. This right here,

In other words, I think your not being very wise with your voting power. Please provide a case on group.

"He didn't answer the questions right..!" "He's being shady and mysterious..!" "He doesn't drink Coke...!" It gets old.

Is the frikkin truth.

This Is what I mean by a CASE. And I hope everyone comes to their senses and agrees soon.

[AKnottedRope]

Ty for making a case robo, now I get to refute it :3

About what you quoted up at the top: Aparently you misread what I said. I'm saying that unless you're a power role, voting is the only power we have as a town. This isn't rolefishing.

ISO 0:The massclaim was a joke, and doesn't deserve particular mention.

ISO 1:I was asking for clarification, as I wasn't sure if GT was serious about his vote or not, and I was wondering if he was being defensive. Apparently he was.

ISO 3: I did read your entire post, and I had seen you do your RQS in other games before this one even started (It took a while for mith to verify my acc, so I read through some noobie games while I waited). To say that me telling you to answer your own questions implies that I didn't read your entire post is a fallacy in its self. So yes, I was doing this to fish for reactions, is this scummy? I'm trying to get information on you.

ISO 5: Well thank you

ISO 7: I ask him a direct question, it would be nice for him to at least acknowledge it

ISO 8: I'm not entirely new to mafia. I've played 5-6 games outside this site on a private forum, and our games are modeled after this style of play. The questions I'm answering are a matter of opinion, and just because you've played more games does not mean that i'm not entitled to my own.

ISO 9: What I said is "you must at least have a slight read." To go through a RVS or a RQS and not have at least a tiny read on someone is pointless.

ISO 10: I'm just throwing bussing out as a suggestion, and I never said that he was "dong good and making an argument." Stop putting words in my mouth, that's scummy.

ISO 11: So you think that because I threw bussing out as a suggestion, that I'm now fixated on it being why cove and GT were arguing? Huge misrep here. Also, I just want a clarification on why Cove sees my suggestion as scummy.

ISO 12: How is this null? IMHO confirm votes are scummy and drilling someone about one is pro-town.

ISO 13: Well, let's see here. There are two scum in this game, and those were the people looking scummiest to me at that instant. That's how I say that without sounding controversial.

ISO 14: I want the lurkers to post. Your point?

ISO 15: I misinterpreted what he said, which he clarified. Unintentional misinterpretations aren't scummy.

ISO 17: I was still misinterpreting. I thought he said that he knew there was only one PR in the game, not that he was judging the probability of scum being able to fakeclaim.

ISO 20: I unvoted because he made it clear to me that I misinterpreted what he said, so it was not in the town's best interest for me to keep my vote there. Also, loaded rhetorical questions will get you nowhere, it's slinging mud.

ISO 21: Ok, let me clarify. FoSes are pointless if you're not already voting someone or if the person you want to vote is close to lynch.

ISO 23: Being rude doesn't help your case, just putting that out there.

ISO 25: Your point?

ISO 26: This has been explained. A lot. Please read what I've said.

The rest of his posts, are these three things
-Dumb
-Stupid
-Dumb

This is not a case. Why are they dumb/stupid/dumb?

I have to say the most townie focused player here is GT.

How, exactly? Especially when I've questioned him AND PLACED VOTES ON HIM, yet he has not directly addressed me all game. Is this exempt from your "Scum don't need to read every post" rule?

[AKnottedRope]

ISO 10: I'm just throwing bussing out as a suggestion, and I never said that he was "

dong

good and making an argument." Stop putting words in my mouth, that's scummy.

Should be "doing"

[Robocopter87]

Ragequit.

I don't even feel like talking to you anymore. Can't you just sit quietly for a few posts and let other people talk? but no, You must continue to blabber so I'll fight back still.

Ty for making a case robo, now I get to refute it :3

You call this sad attempt "Refuting".

About what you quoted up at the top: Aparently you misread what I said. I'm saying that unless you're a power role, voting is the only power we have as a town. This isn't rolefishing.

If thats what you meant, then why isn't that what you said? Hm?

ISO 0:The massclaim was a joke, and doesn't deserve particular mention.

So you can mention every little detail and tunnel and get away with it? Since when do you decide what deserves attention and merit?

ISO 1:I was asking for clarification, as I wasn't sure if GT was serious about his vote or not, and I was wondering if he was being defensive. Apparently he was.

Apparently, It was completly obv his vote was a joke. I don't understand why your still sticking to this. Stop being stubborn and listen.

ISO 3: I did read your entire post, and I had seen you do your RQS in other games before this one even started (It took a while for mith to verify my acc, so I read through some noobie games while I waited). To say that me telling you to answer your own questions implies that I didn't read your entire post is a fallacy in its self. So yes, I was doing this to fish for reactions, is this scummy? I'm trying to get information on you.

This is a lie. You were not searching for reactions. You just admitted to purposefully telling me to answer my own questions when I stated I would. Once again, your sticking to stuff you need to let go of.

ISO 5: Well thank you

Pfft.

ISO 7: I ask him a direct question, it would be nice for him to at least acknowledge it

Just shut up about your Second posts question on a joke vote! It was a JOKE! J-O-K-E! It doesn't matter it has no purpose and has long since been left alone. Why must you cling to such meaningless stuff?

ISO 8: I'm not entirely new to mafia. I've played 5-6 games outside this site on a private forum, and our games are modeled after this style of play. The questions I'm answering are a matter of opinion, and just because you've played more games does not mean that i'm not entitled to my own.

Sorry but you don't really act like you've played before. Some things aren't a matter of opinion, some are fact. And if you base every single suspicion off of opinion then you'll never have a solid arguement.

ISO 9: What I said is "you must at least have a slight read." To go through a RVS or a RQS and not have at least a tiny read on someone is pointless.

To gain suspicion from RVS(AkA jokealot stage) is pointless. What you just said is wrong.

ISO 10: I'm just throwing bussing out as a suggestion, and I never said that he was "dong good and making an argument." Stop putting words in my mouth, that's scummy.

Bussing and tunneling and RVS votes as serious and having good analysis deserves FoS's and Kleed could be a PR. Im not putting words in your mouth. Thats the beauty of ISOs those things REALLY happened. Why don't you just admit it and move on?

ISO 11: So you think that because I threw bussing out as a suggestion, that I'm now fixated on it being why cove and GT were arguing? Huge misrep here. Also, I just want a clarification on why Cove sees my suggestion as scummy.

Whatever.

ISO 12: How is this null? IMHO confirm votes are scummy and drilling someone about one is pro-town.

the confirm vote thing has already been discussed, moving on. This is my problem with you. Your not moving on. Your so focused on what has happened and possible hidden meanings that your paying attention and having and luck with finding scum. Scumhunting is using logical reasoning and FACT to provide a logical PROVABLE answer for who is scum. Simple as that.

ISO 13: Well, let's see here. There are two scum in this game, and those were the people looking scummiest to me at that instant. That's how I say that without sounding controversial.

The ISO specifically said that you were suspicious of GT and Cove, yet a light suspicion. But as I recall you tunneled pretty deep.

ISO 14: I want the lurkers to post. Your point?

My point? You mean the one that you just totally missed? Let me just tell you " My point". You had just said that you could see how you were being too aggresive, then you quickly change to how Aqua and Kindred are lurking. You averted eyes by calling out Aqua and Kindred for lurking. We already knew that they were lurking, its only totally obv.

ISO 15: I misinterpreted what he said, which he clarified. Unintentional misinterpretations aren't scummy.

I think that misintrepreting TOO MUCH is scummy. Which your doing.

ISO 17: I was still misinterpreting. I thought he said that he knew there was only one PR in the game, not that he was judging the probability of scum being able to fakeclaim.

My point proven, you were still running off of an misintrepretation.

ISO 20: I unvoted because he made it clear to me that I misinterpreted what he said, so it was not in the town's best interest for me to keep my vote there. Also, loaded rhetorical questions will get you nowhere, it's slinging mud.

Ya I remember, You backpeddled so bad it was funny. I made sure it was rhetorical because you keep slinging mud by answering them.

ISO 21: Ok, let me clarify. FoSes are pointless if you're not already voting someone or if the person you want to vote is close to lynch.

Hey, have I placed an FoS yet? i'm pretty sure you placed one after that ISO post. That was my point.

ISO 23: Being rude doesn't help your case, just putting that out there.

I wasn't being rude, thats what it sounded like in my mind.

ISO 25: Your point?

First of all, you find three people scummy in a two scum setup. Second, you name two of like 5 people who are lurking. Third, You placed your lurker votes before the one with some actual merit which is Coves Confirmvote. Fourth, you think that its all right.

ISO 26: This has been explained. A lot. Please read what I've said.

I spent almost an HOUR readin what you said, I don't recall you explaining this. So by all means, show me where you explained it.

The rest of his posts, are these three things
-Dumb
-Stupid
-Dumb

This is not a case. Why are they dumb/stupid/dumb?

Sorry I must admit I went a litte overboard with that. My apologies. I get a little worked up some times. Its just a game, meant for fun.

I have to say the most townie focused player here is GT.

How, exactly? Especially when I've questioned him AND PLACED VOTES ON HIM, yet he has not directly addressed me all game. Is this exempt from your "Scum don't need to read every post" rule?

Dude, are you seriously saying that your Lame xcuse for scumhunting in your second post on a joke vote is questioning? And who says that a single vote matters, If you voted me, I would giggle at the OMGUS of it but If I was in GT's shoes then I would just ignore you. I wish I didn't have to address you directly...

BTW, I don't actually quit. I was just mad at the beginning of this post.

NFTOVABC

[AKnottedRope]

Ok, I'm not going to let this turn into a wall-o-text war, so I'm gonna try and make this short.

About power roles and voting: That IS what I said, go back and read it, please (Also quoted below for your viewing pleasure).

About letting meaningless stuff go and tunneling:First, please tell me how I've tunneled? Second, you're tunneling me right now, I'm just responding to the claims you're making about me. You're working yourself up into a frenzy and blinding yourself to what's going on around you. Furthermore, you tell me to "move on" yet you keep hounding me for THE SAME THINGS.

Stop just saying "X is wrong" or "Y is right" give me PROOF (In response to your claim that searching for tells in the RVS is "wrong")

About words in my mouth: I went back and re-read every single one of my posts as I was responding to your case, and you've been misinterpreting a lot of what I've said.

About misinterpreting: I've misinterpreted ONE POST, that is not "misinterpreting too much." Klee's post wasn't exactly clear, and left some areas open to interpretation. Also @ ISO 17 in particular, that post was made before klee clarified his position. If you notice, the in the post AFTER he clarifies, I back off. Backing off because you realize you were wrong isn't scummy, and you need to do the same here.

I spent almost an HOUR readin what you said, I don't recall you explaining this. So by all means, show me where you explained it.

Here it is. This is also one of the posts of mine that you have misread.

Robo, asking me to tone it down is asking me to not scumhunt. How I get information is by looking for people's reactions, and it seems like it's working (my FoS on you got this reaction, did it not?). I think page four is definitely time enough to place a vote. Unless you're a PR, that's the only power we have, so we might as well use it to the fullest.

See especially "I think" to "the fullest".

Robo, please take your own advice here and back down. If you keep going, you're giving the scum a HUGE wall to lurk behind. You've made your argument and I've made my defense, now let's both shut up and let other people weigh in on it, k?

[AKnottedRope]

Also, what does "NFTOVABC" mean?