Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[VasudeVa]

Oh man, I'm at L-1 at D1 again? This makes me a saaad panda

@Fish: Are you reading the same sentence as I am? That sentence reads to me as 'The discussion is doesn't matter yet', not 'The mechanics don't matter yet.'

@People asking the same question:

'Scummy use of the double vote'

-> If it disperses their wagon, yes. Although, I don't think that Jack had the foresight to do that but I still feel that whoever has the double vote should be investigated.

generally being anti-town

-> Self vote plus ignoring people who are trying to look into him (Zang). Plus he is being a bit vague, which is anti-town in my book.

[VasudeVa]

Tagfail D:

This makes me a saaad panda

[Zajnet]

I would bet that the DV is town because of money amounts. The scum were bidding on the NK and the pickpocket, so I doubt that they had $$ left over to bid on the DV.

[VasudeVa]

I disagree on pickpocket since it isn't as necessary as say, bulletproof/investigation immune/doctor.

You do have a point there though(albeit a minor one due to how inexpensive DV was).

##Vote: Fishy

[Zang]

I think Pickpocket is pretty much a third-party role because the person who has it is probably trying to get a money win.

[Fishythefish]

@Fish: Are you reading the same sentence as I am? That sentence reads to me as 'The discussion is doesn't matter yet', not 'The mechanics don't matter yet.'

Let's quote that sentence in full again:

I'm here. Not really interested in talking about mechanics that don't really matter/apply yet.

1) The word "that" refers to a noun. In this case, the only noun. Mechanics.
2) The word "don't" agrees with a plural noun. In this case, the only noun. Mechanics.
It's not like this sentence is wrong in any way. It's a perfectly grammatical sentence, with no ambiguity in it, which says that the mechanics don't really matter/apply yet.

Again, you defend yourself with points that just don't make any sense. And for me, that's a major scumtell - you clearly care far, far more about the defense than about the accuracy of your statements.

@VV: why is dispersing your own wagon scummy? What makes you think that was Jack's intention? Generally, you seem to be saying that Jack's wagon dispersal, his double vote and his self vote (perhaps?) are linked, and that some or all of these make him scummy. It would help if you could clarify your position - what exactly has Jack done that you think scum do more than town?

@Zajnet: "The scum were bidding on the NK and the pickpocket" - news to me. While I agree the scum very likely bought the NK, there's no particular reason to think they bough pickpocket. Have you got inside information here?

Either way, there are 4 scum, and they can all take out loans. Saying that they couldn't have bought the DV for 41 is a bit silly.

@Zang, SPS, SK, Flash, anyone I've missed: who is scum and why? This game needs more from you.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

I read the sentence the same way as Fishy reads it.

@Zang, SPS, SK, Flash, anyone I've missed: who is scum and why? This game needs more from you.

I believe it's Mafia A and Mafia B. You shouldn't expect much more than that from me on page 9. My gut needs more to work with.

[Zang]

Jack is scum.

He needs more votes.

[Jack]

Jack is scum.

He needs more votes.

I just bought a second one. Or are you offering to lend me yours?

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Nobody Special ( 1 ) Andrius,
farside22 ( 0 )
Zang ( 0 )
Jack ( 1 ) Zang,
SaintKerrigan ( 0 )
Zajnet ( 0 )
NavyCherub ( 0 )
VasudeVa ( 6 ) Jack, Fishythefish, Steam-Powered Shovel, Zajnet, farside22,
Andrius ( 0 )
Fishythefish ( 1 ) VasudeVa,
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 1 ) NavyCherub,
flashstorm ( 1 ) SaintKerrigan,
Not Voting ( 2 ) Nobody Special, flashstorm,
Total Votes ( 13 )
Deadline: June 14th at 23:00 EDT
With 13 total votes, 7 needed to lynch.

[Jack]

Flashstorm was really excited about his breaking strategy but has disappeared since.

SaintK was v/la I guess...?

Nobody special "thinks the game is hard" is lurking hardcore.

[Zang]

Jack is scum.

He needs more votes.

I just bought a second one. Or are you offering to lend me yours?

Now that your acknowledging me, are you going to respond to my accusations against you?

[Jack]

Jack is scum.

He needs more votes.

I just bought a second one. Or are you offering to lend me yours?

Now that your acknowledging me, are you going to respond to my accusations against you?

I don't understand them.

[Zang]

Do you actually read posts?

Are my posts invisible to you?

Zang why did you vote on Jack?

Not answering my questions.

Are you going to keep ignoring me?

ignoring people who are trying to look into him (Zang).

 

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, will be rereading this game (as well as others) today. Don't expect me to give my thoughts immediate presto, but I'll try hard to have something before the RL day ends.

[Zajnet]

@Zajnet: "The scum were bidding on the NK and the pickpocket" - news to me. While I agree the scum very likely bought the NK, there's no particular reason to think they bough pickpocket. Have you got inside information here?

Either way, there are 4 scum, and they can all take out loans. Saying that they couldn't have bought the DV for 41 is a bit silly.

I don't think people would risk taking out loans so big that they would be guaranteed to enter bankruptcy in 3 days. $251 is probably a scum who wired money to another scum and took out a small loan. For a town person to have taken out a loan that big would require them to get $50 per night off of the pickpocket, which is impossible (I think).

[Jack]

Perhaps later in the game we can work out a deal with one of the scum where we wire them a bit of extra money and they loan enough to get the money win. I don't care if scum get the money win--it takes them out of the game, and we can lynch a different scum. It is probably prone to abuse by lying scum though.

[Zang]

they loan enough to get the money win

1. Have at least $1000 in cash

minus debts

AND

Also Jack, do you still not understand?

[Jack]

That seems obviously impossible though...

[VasudeVa]

@Fish: "Talking about mechanics" is a gerund phrase, which makes it a noun, then the verb 'don't' refers to the discussion, not the mechanics.

If you read it this way:
Not really interested in

talking about

mechanics

that

don't really matter/apply yet.
Then what is the bolded part, hm?

So obviously it's meant to be read this way:
Not really interested in

talking about mechanics

that

don't

really matter/apply yet.
Red = Noun
Blue = Verb.

Not really super scummy, but I don't like self-votes in general as they are very anti town. I found it reason enough to (attempt to) wagon on him.

Also, note that I am no longer voting for him.

@People voting for me: Why?

[Zang]

That seems obviously impossible though...

Well, it's only one of the two ways to get a money win.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

Uh no, you need both 1000$ and 50%. Zoraster made it fairly clear it's not meant to be all that viable.

VV, the first reading totally works. One reads it as "talking about [mechanics that don't really matter/apply yet]".

P.S. I'm voting for you 'cause we'll never get anywhere without pressure.

[Zang]

Uh no, you need both 1000$ and 50%. Zoraster made it fairly clear it's not meant to be all that viable.

yes, but you can win with 50% if you don't have 1000.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

No.

1. Have at least $1000 in cash minus debts AND
2. Have at least 50% of total cash in the game (of those alive)

Note the "AND".

[Zang]

No.

1. Have at least $1000 in cash minus debts AND
2. Have at least 50% of total cash in the game (of those alive)

Note the "AND".

What I think it means is that you need 1000 and 50% but you don't need 50% and 1000.

For example, if there is only 800 you would only need 400 to win because you can't get 1000 because there is not that much cash in the game.