Newbie 962 (Game Over!)

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:54 pm

Post by Remy »

vrtra wrote:Hey all, sorry for an extended absence of my presence within the thread; as perviously stated in this thread it is a busy time of year for students- last week of school next week and only finding time to post late Friday night (I will try my hardest to post at least once a day now). This will be a catch-up post mostly.
Understood. I did see you answer that you don't want to lynch lurkers since they may just be busy with RL things, but I was not aware that you meant YOU were currently busy with RL things. And since you said yes to lynching liars I am going to assume you are telling the truth. Therefore my already weak reason for voting you is negated.
Unvote.


Not voting again yet because I still don't have a really strong feeling about anyone. Almost everyone is a "maybe" to me right now. Figuring out who is who is more difficult than I thought it would be. I hope there is more to work with on Day 2.
kindred_spirit wrote:oops sorry remy for saying him instead of her and anyone else. i know how much it pisses me off when people think i'm a guy
Thanks. It has been bugging me a (tiny) little bit but I'm fairly used to it. Happens all the time playing games online...everyone just assumes everyone else is a guy. I stopped correcting people a long time ago haha.
GroupThink wrote:I want to win the game. unvote; vote Remy
I don't understand the accusation. How did my post spark that reaction?
Robocopter87 wrote:What I'm about to do is an ISO. Its where I go to the bottom of the page in the little dropbox labeled "All users" and pick AKR and click go. that takes me to AKR's post only. Form there I go through each of his posts and anaylze them.
Ooooh I like that. Thanks for the tip. Being able to look at everything an individual has said without the distractions of the posts in between will be a valuable tool.
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Happy Scumday!

Post Post #126 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:53 pm

Post by Tidher »

So you all know:
V/LA until Wednesday
, or whenever I give up trying to pass these blasted exams. I approve of the overall comments since my last post.
If
I have a night action, I have already informed the mod via PM, though I'd rather you guys waited on a hammer until I got back (it's only a few days away, after all).
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:29 am

Post by AKnottedRope »

Good luck, Tidher.
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A moment of silence, please, for those who never get the chance. They show up to the party but are never asked to dance. The losers, the liars, the bastards, the thieves, the cynisists, the pessimists, and those who don't believe in nothing!

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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:35 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

AKnottedRope wrote:Ok, I'm not going to let this turn into a wall-o-text war, so I'm gonna try and make this short.
What? You don't have defenses to everything?


About power roles and voting: That IS what I said, go back and read it, please (Also quoted below for your viewing pleasure).
You call the quote a defense?


About letting meaningless stuff go and tunneling:First, please tell me how I've tunneled? Second, you're tunneling me right now, I'm just responding to the claims you're making about me. You're working yourself up into a frenzy and blinding yourself to what's going on around you. Furthermore, you tell me to "move on" yet you keep hounding me for THE SAME THINGS.
So now IM tunneling? No I'm not, I'm telling the truth. The claims were based off an ISO which is only proof. IM BLIND now? Dude, Your the stubborn Blabbermouth.


Stop just saying "X is wrong" or "Y is right" give me PROOF (In response to your claim that searching for tells in the RVS is "wrong")
Alright let me explain and acutally try to listen to me for once. Yes, you can find tells in RVS. You can do so by using the method I used. I asked questions. Now, Just because there was tells doesn't mean there true. You can't use RVS as valid proof it is not concrete. Its just a hunch. By voting and saying suspicions doesn't work. What you do and what I did was keep the tells to myself, and leet them grow. Watch the person, focuson them. Gather evidence, and when your case is solid, you strike them with undeniable evidence and catch them unawares. That is a valid scumhunt. now this doens't usually happen, people just spurt out there opinions and minor suspicions due to pressure from deadlines.


About words in my mouth: I went back and re-read every single one of my posts as I was responding to your case, and you've been misinterpreting a lot of what I've said.
Its not so much as intrepreting what you said. I didn't intrepret. I just said what it sounded like, so everything I said about your posts was the way you were acting. Simple as that. So if I misintrepreted anything it was because you didn't explain there and then.


About misinterpreting: I've misinterpreted ONE POST, that is not "misinterpreting too much." Klee's post wasn't exactly clear, and left some areas open to interpretation. Also @ ISO 17 in particular, that post was made before klee clarified his position. If you notice, the in the post AFTER he clarifies, I back off. Backing off because you realize you were wrong isn't scummy, and you need to do the same here.
Your asking me to back off? Because I have a case and valid points? Even if I was misintrepreting some things doesn't mean ther isn't plenty of other stuff that dings scum on my radar. So asking me to back off is just averting eyes. No I will not back off. The entire point of my case was to get you to shut up for five posts so other people can talk, you keep talking and talking and wasting valuable time. I just wanted you to let OTHER people discuss for once. I will backoff as soon as you agree to this.
Robo wrote:I spent almost an HOUR readin what you said, I don't recall you explaining this. So by all means, show me where you explained it.
Here it is. This is also one of the posts of mine that you have misread.
AKR Iso 28 wrote:Robo, asking me to tone it down is asking me to not scumhunt. How I get information is by looking for people's reactions, and it seems like it's working (my FoS on you got this reaction, did it not?). I think page four is definitely time enough to place a vote. Unless you're a PR, that's the only power we have, so we might as well use it to the fullest.
See especially "I think" to "the fullest".
I was just asking you to tone it done for christs sake. That doesn't mean don't scumhunt. Why can't you just sit back and observe and find scum silently and then jump in when you have a NICE BIG CASE with evidence!


Robo, please take your own advice here and back down. If you keep going, you're giving the scum a HUGE wall to lurk behind. You've made your argument and I've made my defense, now let's both shut up and let other people weigh in on it, k?
No, you shut up because I'm not the one clogging up this thread. You are. You haven't given anyone a chance to weigh on anything with your constant posting.
Overall, I just want you to be quiet for a while. I never said not to scumhunt. Just because your no talking doesn't mean your not scumhunting.

Now, will you agree to be quiet for a while?
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:53 am

Post by AKnottedRope »

You can't just make a case against me and keep hounding me about it and then turn around and expect me to be quiet, that's bs. So if you would stop tunneling me, I will.
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A moment of silence, please, for those who never get the chance. They show up to the party but are never asked to dance. The losers, the liars, the bastards, the thieves, the cynisists, the pessimists, and those who don't believe in nothing!

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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:55 am

Post by AKnottedRope »

also this:
robo wrote:Your asking me to back off? Because I have a case and valid points? Even if I was misintrepreting some things doesn't mean ther isn't plenty of other stuff that dings scum on my radar. So asking me to back off is just averting eyes. No I will not back off. The entire point of my case was to get you to shut up for five posts so other people can talk, you keep talking and talking and wasting valuable time. I just wanted you to let OTHER people discuss for once. I will backoff as soon as you agree to this.
Is hypocritical. You're drawing this out by creating longer and longer walls of text that people have to read through.
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A moment of silence, please, for those who never get the chance. They show up to the party but are never asked to dance. The losers, the liars, the bastards, the thieves, the cynisists, the pessimists, and those who don't believe in nothing!

Record on MS:
Town 2-3*
Scum 1-0
*Ocarina of Time Mafia... Yeah....
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:56 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

Fine, Though its not really tunneling, I agree to stop "Hounding" you.

Kindred, please talk.
Remy, I know you do but, please talk.
Kleed, I know you do but, please talk.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


"I am so totally obsessed with you. You caught me." - Tracy
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:58 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

And Vrtra and GT.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:00 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

AKR wrote: Is hypocritical. You're drawing this out by creating longer and longer walls of text that people have to read through.
Do we have an agreement or not? Thats hypocritical in itself by saying I;m dragging this out when thats all the wuote was doing.

Did you agree or did you not agree to toning it down after I stop "hounding" you?
I have stopeed and I will not discuss this any longer.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


"I am so totally obsessed with you. You caught me." - Tracy
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:01 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

wuote lol
*Quote
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:29 am

Post by AKnottedRope »

Yes, I will agree to tone it down as long as you don't keep breathing down my neck.

So, moving on, who else do you think is scum?
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A moment of silence, please, for those who never get the chance. They show up to the party but are never asked to dance. The losers, the liars, the bastards, the thieves, the cynisists, the pessimists, and those who don't believe in nothing!

Record on MS:
Town 2-3*
Scum 1-0
*Ocarina of Time Mafia... Yeah....
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:37 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

By toning it down I meant wait till everyone else says something before speaking. I'm going to not post till all the people I named have spoken.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


"I am so totally obsessed with you. You caught me." - Tracy
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:37 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

Starting Now.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:50 am

Post by Kleedrac »

@Robo
By toning it down I meant wait till everyone else says something before speaking. I'm going to not post till all the people I named have spoken.
You realize saying this and then asking for 5 people to talk is basically giving yourself license to lurk right? Also I'm pretty sure some of the people you mentioned are on V/LA or whatever you call it. Would you mind telling me your gut read on Cove? And with all the :words: in there how do you feel about AKR? You pick apart his posts but I'm not sure you've ever said if you think he's scummy or just needs Ritalin (TM)? And I'm hoping you answer my questions before everyone else checks in with the thread sir :)

@AKR:
How do you feel about Robo? Beyond him asking you to tone it down and you explaining your flamboyant scumhunt tactics that is. You get annoyed at his posts but does that mean he's scum or just has a different ideology from you? What's your gut read on Cove?

@Lurkers:
Start posting or get lynched guys, it really can be that simple!
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:00 am

Post by Remy »

I spent a long time last night looking through ISOs of everyone in the game and taking note of what each person thinks of each other person. But it was late and I was tired so I waited till today to share my observations with the rest of you.

Here is my current read on each player (in alphabetical order):

AKR:
I have to say from the very start I have found AKR to be the most annoying of all the players. But I know that being annoying doesn't make you scum. My observations are that he has said something negative about almost every other player already, and has at some point seriously suspected 5 players (GT, Cove, Kleed, Robo, vrtra). This can be interpreted to mean two different things. Either he is scum and he's trying really hard to point fingers at everyone else to keep suspicion off of himself, or he's town and is desperately trying to find scum tells from everyone. My current gut feeling is that he is probably just a confused townie.

Cove:
There seems to be some conflicting ideas between the more experienced players in this game over how voting should work on D1. Cove has been pushing people to vote from early on, even if they have no solid evidence. Robo on the other hand advocates gathering "real" evidence against someone before voting. This being my first game ever I can't say from experience which method is better for town on Day 1, but I'm hoping someone else can build on this and tell me if they think Cove's method is more of a town tell or scum tell. His interactions with others have included strong suspicion and voting against GT, as well as FOS's on AKR and AQUA (now Tidher). He hasn't really said much to indicate his opinion on the other 5 players. I am not counting his RVS vote against Robo. He could go either way in my mind, and I'd really like some other opinions on his pushing for votes.

GroupThink:
Robo had it right when he said this guy is naturally scummy. He has not posted very many times, and every brief post makes you like him less. But I suppose just because I don't like him doesn't mean he is scum. His interactions with others have mostly been fluff. He doesn't seem to like Cove, accusing him of overreacting and calling him a hypocrite. He recently voted for me without giving any real explanation and has yet to respond to my request for clarification. Aside from that he hasn't said enough about anyone to gauge his opinions on them. If he is town, he's not doing a very good job of contributing to the discussion or helping to determine who is scum. I would really like him to stop responding in one-sentence blips and start giving real reasons for his responses. I definitely have my eye on him, but not going to call him scum just yet.

kindred:
She hasn't been particularly active in the discussion but I think it is because she is like me and doesn't know quite what to make of anyone yet. She leans towards suspicion of GT and Kleed, seems supportive of Robo's efforts to lead the discussion, says she thinks Tidher is town based on his first posts, and (maybe kinda sorta) seems to defend some of AKR and Cove's actions. Based on her minor support and/or defense of four different players, my feeling is that she is probably town.

Kleedrac:
The only person that Kleed has really pointed any fingers at has been Cove. He dropped a number of RVS votes in the beginning, but they were all just joke votes. He argued with AKR, but the argument was defensive and he didn't accuse AKR of acting scummy. His FOS and then Vote against Cove was based on Cove's "trying too hard." He has said next-to-nothing about the other 6 players in the game so its hard to get a read on what he thinks of them. He doesn't feel scummy to me but I also have no real reason to think he is town. Could go either way.

Robo:
I liked Robo's posts a lot until he got into a big mudslinging contest with AKR. Out of all of those long quoted posts back and forth between the two of them I didn't get any insight into whether either of them were scum, I mostly couldn't stop thinking "When are they going to give this up?" Robo likes to build a case against someone before voting them, I understand that and I'd really like to be able to do that too but I'm having trouble coming up with anything real to use against someone. His case against AKR seemed mostly to be that he thinks AKR is annoying and talks too much and needs to shut up. Whether or not this is a valid scum tell I don't really know, I don't have enough experience. But Robo hasn't had a single negative thing to say about anyone else in the game. He also defends GT (who happens to be rather scummy-feeling to me) and calls him the most town focused player in the game. Robo is either a townie who is secretly gathering lots of wonderful data about everyone and is going to tell us more about what he thinks of them later...or he is scum and he has singled out AKR as the townie who annoys him the most and is trying to get us to lynch him so he doesn't have to deal with him anymore. What do you guys think?

Tidher (formerly AQUA):
This is a bit weird because whatever this role is has been played by two very different players. AQUA felt scummy, Tidher feels more like town but hasn't been around very long and is now going to be gone for a few days. Tidher suspected Kleed but retracted his vote when Kleed defended himself. Other than that he has been neutral towards everyone else. I am going to wait until we hear more from Tidher to make any real analysis of him.

vrtra:
He has also been busy with school so has not posted too much. He voted against me for acting like newbie scum then retracted (probably because he realized I am just newbie period). More recently he voted for AKR based on his posting style and arguments. He says he thinks Kleedrac comes across as town. Hasn't said much about the other 5 players but I suspect he will when he is through with exams. My gut feeling is that vrtra is town. He seems genuinely concerned about making good arguments and finding scum. I also like his posting style. But this opinion could certainly change when he starts talking more in the future.

So in summary...I still think anyone could be scum at this point. I am leaning towards town on AKR, kindred, and vrtra. I am leaning towards scum on GT. Everyone else I am sitting on or near the fence about.

I hope that is enough talking to satisfy you all. If I get called scum for "trying too hard" now or anything of the like, I'm not going to be very happy. As you can see I don't have strong cases for or against anyone which is why I'm not voting, but I do have thoughts and opinions on each person and I am actively trying to put the pieces together even when I'm not posting.

By the way, can we get an updated vote count? I haven't seen one in awhile.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:00 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

Alright, I have to say something.
Kleed, I made sure I didn't pick V/LA people and giving a few people the chance to speak isn't giving me license to lurk.

Remy, Great post, you really did a good job on all that. Oh, and I knew GT was naturally scummy from his Meta. Or past experiences with playing with him.

OK shutting up for a while now.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:49 pm

Post by vrtra »

Personally, I don't find any players in this game annoying, a lot of posting does not equate to annoyance unless they are one-line stupid posts.
It is quite a shame that people have resorted to "I'm not talking until these other people do."
One thing I would urge the town to do right now is very carefully examine that little back-and-forth Robo and AKR had.
Remy wrote:Robo is either a townie who is secretly gathering lots of wonderful data about everyone and is going to tell us more about what he thinks of them later...or he is scum and he has singled out AKR as the townie who annoys him the most and is trying to get us to lynch him so he doesn't have to deal with him anymore. What do you guys think?
Quite frankly, I don't think either of these situations is what's going on. They are either both sub-par town players or two scum bickering with each other (previously planned maybe). I'll have to look at both of their posts a little more in-depth and I'll follow up with a post on exactly that later tonight, but those are my current theories. One thing that is
for sure
however, is that this argument they had was VERY anti-town. If they are both scum this is a moot point, but this whole thing is drawing a lot of attention away from other people in the game;
Remy wrote: There seems to be some conflicting ideas between the more experienced players in this game over how voting should work on D1. Cove has been pushing people to vote from early on, even if they have no solid evidence. Robo on the other hand advocates gathering "real" evidence against someone before voting. This being my first game ever I can't say from experience which method is better for town on Day 1, but I'm hoping someone else can build on this and tell me if they think Cove's method is more of a town tell or scum tell.
From my experience, if a player knows what they're doing, voting someone for a reaction (or, reaction-hunting) can be very useful and can catch some scum. However, I would personally say overall, unless you know what you're doing, it is not wise to be throwing your vote around with "solid" accusations with nothing to back them up is negative as a whole.

As of right now I have a solid town-read on Remy; she is bringing the attention back to everyone in the game rather than allowing the primary tunneling-esque attention of this game at the moment between AKR and Robo to continue. Kleedrac is still feeling pretty townish to me, and I'll provide my opinions on the AKR/Robo conflict tonight as stated previously.
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:17 pm

Post by vrtra »

EBWOP:
Vrtra wrote: If they are both scum this is a moot point, but this whole thing is drawing a lot of attention away from other people in the game;
SHOULD be...
If they are both scum this is a moot point, but this whole thing is drawing a lot of attention away from other people in the game; allowing potential scum to be getting away with lurking and not doing anything.
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:52 pm

Post by Crazy »

Vote Count:


AKnottedRope
(2) - vrtra, Robocopter87
kindred_spirit
(0)
GroupThink
(2) - Cove, AKnottedRope
Kleedrac
(0)
Remy
(1) - GroupThink
Tidher
(0)
vrtra
(0)
Cove
(1) - Kleedrac
Robocopter87
(0)

Not voting
(3) - kindred_spirit, Remy, Tidher

With 9 alive, 5 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is
June 20th
.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:14 pm

Post by AKnottedRope »

@ Mod: is it too early for a prod on GT and Kindred?
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A moment of silence, please, for those who never get the chance. They show up to the party but are never asked to dance. The losers, the liars, the bastards, the thieves, the cynisists, the pessimists, and those who don't believe in nothing!

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*Ocarina of Time Mafia... Yeah....
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:23 pm

Post by Cove »

What have I come back to...

I'm going to try to get through the robo/AKR argument tonight, but from the looks of it, I might gouge my eyes out before I finish.

Reactions tomorrow at the latest.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:47 pm

Post by kindred_spirit »

ok so i don't know what to make of the AKR/Robo argument. it just confuses me.

i'm leaning towards GT being scum but that is more of a gut feeling. and his posting style really anoyes me but i'm not going to vote him just for that. i'll wait and see what he post in future to see if there is anything there

also so for the people but i'm going to be on V/LA for the next 4 days as i have to go on the primary school camp to supervise.
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Happy Scumday!

Post Post #147 (ISO) » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:07 am

Post by Tidher »

Apologies all, but I'm going to have to extend my relative absence by a day (i.e.
V/LA
until Thursday). Turns out I might need to do a tad more revision than I first thought.

In other news: I'm leaning towards GroupThink being scum due to the lack of general input on his part. 4 posts in over 5 pages? Not cool. I realise that in his second post he mentioned that he was here to learn a bit about the game, so effectively will be lurking a bit, but based entirely on the amount of requests for input going on (and lack of response), I second the need for a prod. Inactive town just hurt us, and inactive scum...well, obviously they need to be lynched anyway.
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AKnottedRope
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:39 am

Post by AKnottedRope »

Ok, if I wait for GT to post I'll be waiting forever, so here are my thoughts.

Klee
In response to your questions, I actually have a town read on robo. Half of it is a gut feeling, but the other half is because he got so emotionally tied to our argument, indicating to me that he actually thought I was scum. If he was scum, he would know I was town and wouldn't be able to get so emotionally attached to his cases on me. I also have a town read on Cove, and that's a purely gut read. Also, robo clearly stated that he had a scum read on me in his first case, go back and read it again.

Remy
You're leaning scum on GT but where is your vote? Yes, I know you said you don't like to vote without a strong case, but I don't think GT will come out from whatever hole he crawled in unless we give him reason to. Put pressure on him please, maybe he'll stop lurking.

Vrtra
What I don't like about your most recent post is here:
Vrtra wrote:One thing I would
urge the town to do
right now is very carefully examine that little back-and-forth Robo and AKR had.
Why would you "urge the town" to do something that you could just as easily do yourself? This doesn't sit right for me. It sounds like you're trying to give the appearance of scumhunting. I could see something like this coming from scum because it's harder to do an analysis of an argument like mine and robo's if you're not a part of the town and therefore know our alignments already. EGMEOY

Robo
You never answered my question about what "NFTOVABC" means.
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A moment of silence, please, for those who never get the chance. They show up to the party but are never asked to dance. The losers, the liars, the bastards, the thieves, the cynisists, the pessimists, and those who don't believe in nothing!

Record on MS:
Town 2-3*
Scum 1-0
*Ocarina of Time Mafia... Yeah....
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:42 am

Post by AKnottedRope »

Forgot to include kindred and Tidher...

Kindred
Most if not all of your posts this game have been fluff, give some more insight to the game, please.

Tidher
Can you do a more in-depth post on your thoughts on the game since page one? You've been here long enough to read it and think about it (even given your V/LA)
Show
A moment of silence, please, for those who never get the chance. They show up to the party but are never asked to dance. The losers, the liars, the bastards, the thieves, the cynisists, the pessimists, and those who don't believe in nothing!

Record on MS:
Town 2-3*
Scum 1-0
*Ocarina of Time Mafia... Yeah....

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