A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

1. And why does buying him more time to claim and save himself seem scummy to you?

2. You're acting like you wish I hadn't given him time to claim, and that he had been lynched without doing so. That's extremely scummy. And he had to claim to save his own butt anyway, as evidenced by the fact that he DID.

3. unvote vote: SSBF Still up for a Migwelloni lynch, but SSBF saying I shouldn't have taken my vote away seems really wrong.

1. If RichardGHP were to flip scum, that would establish a connection between you and RichardGHP because you unvoted him just so he could claim.

2. Even if RichardGHP was kept at L-1, people would be smart to look at the latest vote count anyway and he would have probably claimed anyway. Thus, we would have gotten the exact same result. He did not need your help by taking him off L-1.

3. That sounds like a nice big OMGUS vote on me. Your case on me is not very good and you're voting me based off disagreements, not on scummy behavior.

[vezopiraka]

unvote

Seems a legit claim to me. I guess the one who gets the extra kill is town. Vengeance for a scum is pretty weird.

[Rifka Viveka]

The New York Lurker Report

1)Xvart=4
2)Mina=11
3)LynchMePls=21
4)MacavityLock=10
5)CryMeARiver=12
6)Unsight=4
7) Paranoia=1
8)Benmage=37
9)Axelrod=8
10)Super Smash Bros. Fan=34
11)Percy=6
12) CCARaven4=3
13) Vezopiraka=20
14) animorpherv1=6
15) Mikujin=3
16) I doubt it=3
17) Kleedrac=5
18) Migwelloni=2
19) Hayker=4
20) Rifka Viveka=12
21) Deer=7
22) dannakillsu=15
23) RichardGHP=25
24) DrModemhasdgfas=10+5
25) MagnaOfIllusion=4
26) Drippereth=42

So in a 26 player game the top 3 posters have roughly 35% of the total vote count in roughly 6 days. 9 players have 4 posts or less, or roughly 13% of the vote count.

[MagnaofIllusion]

They use their vote to scum hunt, and pretty effectively from what I've seen so far, so how is giving them twice the vote bad? They may not be twice the effective scumhunter, but I think it would definitely improve their play. At the least they could use one vote to push their top suspect and the other to probe at people like they regularly do.

My point is that DripHydra can still continue to probe at players with a single vote while highlighting their top suspect as above. If the style is effective with one vote (which the concensus is that it tends to be so) then adding a second vote doesn’t necessarily increase the effectiveness in my mind. A declarative player who builds cases can thus build two strong cases and utilize their vote to back them, or to build a single strong case and support it twice.

Note please that DripHydra currently has an inactive vote but is still managing to place pressure on players.

You believe there is one giganto scum team?

Personally I have no clue. I’m not versed at all in the source material and don’t see anything in the flavor to lead me to think anything regarding the possible make-up of Scum in this game. We have the name “War of the 5 Kings” which indicates possible multiple factions. On the opposing side we have the line “Following Ned's death fragile alliances were made as an effort to make sure a rightful King sat on the Iron Throne started” which indicates banding together, which alludes to a solo scum faction.

@Rifka re: 327 – Please indicate whether you think post volume is the only measurable for activity in a game. Are 5 short posts (ala Deer) worth more than a single post like Cow’s? Please explain how that post is not IoA? Having reviewed your ISO I see a first post vote for Deer, some jousting with Benmage and little actual scum-hunting. Who are your top scum-reads at the moment? Do you think Deer is still scum? ISO 8 seems to say you would be willing to hammer Richard yet you barely address his play at all to that point (only in ISO 2). Why?

[LimMePls]

My point is that DripHydra can still continue to probe at players with a single vote while highlighting their top suspect as above. If the style is effective with one vote (which the concensus is that it tends to be so) then adding a second vote doesn’t necessarily increase the effectiveness in my mind. A declarative player who builds cases can thus build two strong cases and utilize their vote to back them, or to build a single strong case and support it twice.

Note please that DripHydra currently has an inactive vote but is still managing to place pressure on players.

This point is well taken. So well taken in fact:

Unraise
Raise: MagnaofIllusion

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Rifka Viveka: I'm going to agree with MagnaofIllusion here, I don't see what this is suppose to accomplish. Out of those who have posted less then five times in the game as of that post, I have a town read in some form on these people who had less then five posts at the time:

Xvart
Unsight
MagnaofIllusion

While they lack in quantity, they make up for that in quality. Now granted, I don't denide that a lack of posting is dangerous to the game and some of these lurkers are scummy (Migwelloni is an example), but a lack of post isn't really a scum tell.

Personally, I like quality over quantity and that this post has accomplished little.

[Rifka Viveka]

@Rifka re: 327 – Please indicate whether you think post volume is the only measurable for activity in a game. Are 5 short posts (ala Deer) worth more than a single post like Cow’s? Please explain how that post is not IoA? Having reviewed your ISO I see a first post vote for Deer, some jousting with Benmage and little actual scum-hunting. Who are your top scum-reads at the moment? Do you think Deer is still scum? ISO 8 seems to say you would be willing to hammer Richard yet you barely address his play at all to that point (only in ISO 2). Why?

Its definitely information over analysis. This kind of breakdown isnt available automatically, is it?

As to your other Q, half the game is scum right now. I like SSBF and deer particularly. Deer hasnt done anything to even justify moving the vote. As for being willing to hammer richard at the time, ill suffice myself with referring his contradiction of calling out CMAR then using even earlier evidence to justify a vote.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.9: The '

"I will hear you say it. She was Elia of Dorne."

' votecount

.

Lynch Count

Deer (1) -

Rifka Viveka

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

CCARaven4, Unsight, Danakillsu

RichardGHP (7) -

MacavityLock, xvart, MagnaOfIllusion, Deer, Animopherv1, Mikujin, migewelloni

CryMeARiver (3) -

RichardGHP, Hasdgfas, Kleedrac

Drippereth (1) -

Benmage

Migwelloni (2) -

Mina,Super Smash Bros. Fan

Vezopiraka (1) -

Hayker

Hayker (1) -

Percy

Not voting to Lynch (7) - Paranoia, I doubt it, CryMeARiver, Drippereth, Axelrod, LynchMePls, vezopiraka.

Hand of the King Count

Kleedrac (1) -

Kleedrac

xvart (2) -

Percy, xvart

MacavityLock (1) -

MacavityLock

CryMeARiver (1) -

CryMeARiver

RichardGHP (1)-

RichardGHP

Axelrod (2) -

vezopiraka, MagnaOfIllusion

Benmage (1) -

Benmage

I doubt it (1) -

I doubt it

Drippereth (2) -

Rifka Viveka, Danakillsu

Mina (1) -

Super Smash Bros. Fan

MagnaofIllusion -

LynchMePls

Not voting to Raise (12) - Unsight, Paranoia, animorpherv1, Migwelloni, Hayker, Drippereth, Mina, CCARaven4, hasdgfas, Deer, Mikujin, Axelrod

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to lynch and raise.

The deadline for today's lynch is

10:00pm EST on Tuesday the 22nd of June

. You can view a countdown to the deadline

here

.

Prod stick will be going out later.

[xvart]

unvote

vote: richardhgb

I like a good bandwagon

Weaksauce... The bandwagon had been good for quite a while.

Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.

I am not in favor of you being Hand of the King. Your (hydra) playstyle can be, at times, erratic. I also think that if you two are scum, you could be more dangerous with a double vote than anyone else in the game.

2. I'd like for you to explain why I parroted Vezopiraka. I haven't seen my reasons for suspecting RichardGHP being explained by anyone else really.

Why would you want Mina to explain why you did something?

People People...the scum last game had safeclaims, unless provable claims, nameclaims really shouldn't dissuade scummness.

This is why we should have asked everyone how familiar they were with the books in the RVS stage of the game.

Okay, I will get caught up soon, but to those voting to raise axelrod, I would just like to say that whoever gets the double vote will likely die quickly and axelrod already endorsed me getting the double vote. I'm willing to take that sacrifice for town. I'll admit axel seems to be a very good player and I'll likely take his advice into consideration when using a double vote. Just putting it out there.

This could be the single scummiest post of the game.

I'm most concerned about the people that unvoted prior to the claim: danakillsu and I Doubt It.

Starting to look more like VI to me as well.

Unvote

I'm not convinced Richard's the best lynch any more, and I

really

don't like the last three votes on the wagon.

FoS: animorpherv1, Mikujin, Migwelloni

More thoughts tomorrow, dead tired now.

IDI - at what point to Richad become VI as opposed to scummy like you originally thought?

And why would you unvote now, pre-claim, after we all put Richard to L-1?

Why do you find it scummy that I ensured RichardGHP would not be quicklynched? LOOK WHO HE TURNED OUT TO BE! We also hadn't decided who to raise as Hand yet. I help town a lot and it's scummy. Go figure. I will do this again next time I have the opportunity, despite what others might think.

Quicklynched? Seriously? This wagon had been building for quite a while now. Are you routinely worried about people sitting at L-1? It's fairly common practice to only claim at L-1. And for the all caps statment, what was the point? Are you trying to justify your premature unvote by the claim that came after your unvote?

@xvart
Yes. You misrepped me. I said that it was stupid to raise onesself and then say others are scummy. I didn't say that making others look scummy was the reason they were doing it. That is the second part of my case. Mainly my vote was a protest, and there's a lot more information to go on now, so

unvote

But that's not what you said at all. Here's your post. Show me the conditional "then" part. I would've accepted your part about not saying that making others look scummy was the reason they were doing it (the whole semantics thing) if it weren't for you dodging my follow up question and now your contradiction the quoted post. My original post wasn't even accusatory nor did I say what you originally said was scummy. You appear pretty defensive about it.

Unvote
Vote: danakillsu

xvart.

[Ellibereth]

@Magna - I refer to both my personal history (DGB) and that of the Hydra. It may refer to Elli too, individually, I would need to check with him.

Yes it does. (Elli)

Vote: Kleedrac

[I doubt it]

Tell me how you are distinguishing scum from extreme VI.

It's mostly a gut feeling. I've seen townies crack like that under pressure several times in games I played. He could easily flip either way, although his claim fits the books remarkably well.

More importantly than that, I was unnerved by the sudden lurker bandwagoning and wanted to make sure I had time to take another look at the game.

Explain why he doesn't need to claim at this juncture.

I wasn't explicitly against a claim, and it's not like my unvote would (and didn't) stop him from claiming.

In retrospect the unvote and whole post was unnecessary. I was planning on making a bigger post on Monday when the whole graduation ordeal was over, but my drunk self apparently decided to post instead. Sorry if you think I'm flipflopping here, that's the truth.

On to the scumlist:

Lurkers (animorpherv1, CCARaven4, Deer, Hayker, Migwelloni, Mikujin, Paranoia): Way too many lurkers to seriously consider any single one for a lynch, unfortunately. Worst of the bunch are animorpherv1, Mikujin and especially Migwelloni, for opportunistic bandwagon jumping with little to no reasoning.

Benmage: Looking at his posts in ISO, it's a whole load of setup speculation, role fishing and discussion about raising, plus other fluff posts, but very little scumhunting. Who's scum besides Drippereth?

vezopiraka: Really erratic play and hasn't told why he suspects the people he does. I'm waiting for a case.

Kleedrac: His whole argument against CMAR is a mess. Most of it is about the contract, which I agree was pointless, but I don't think it was scum-motivated. On the other points, he's either massively misinterpreting CMAR or is just being really obstinate. Seems like he's pretending to scumhunt.

Vote: Kleedrac

Unraise

I'd be in favor of raising either Percy or Cow to Hand. Both seem pro-town, as well as articulate and well-reasoned in their arguments. There are some others I could support, for the same reasons, but these two in particular.

[hasdgfas]

unvote

Seems a legit claim to me. I guess the one who gets the extra kill is town. Vengeance for a scum is pretty weird.

Even though the role is basically exactly the same as Vengeful Godfather in Vengeful 5?

Calling for a claim at L-2 is poor form. Claims are for when a player is at L-1 and another player has declared their willingness to hammer them, not before.

I'm going to have to disagree here. It completely depends on game size. In a game this size, L-2 is fine, especially when it's 14 to lynch. That's

double

the usual mini. Claims at L-2 lower the chance of an accidental lynch in a big game.



Also, Why is nobody else amazed at the fact that CMAR

said

he was breadcrumbing? Why would you ever say that at a point where you're not going to claim? That's just such a scum move. I just don't think that town would act like that, pointing out their breadcrumb, because if it was true, that would bring the scum on them. If they're scum, they can just say it and know they'll probably be around to explain it later.

Raise: Percy

I've been impressed with his posts so far and would be more happy with him having two votes than anyone else here.

[LimMePls]

What exactly is the case on Kleedrac? I just ISO'd him, and he just seems lurky to me. Is that it?

I thought this post was strange:

What the hell does this mean and why are two of you saying it word-for-word?

Because Finkle is Einhorn, and Einhorn is Finkle. We've covered this already. The thread isn't that long.

And to answer the question, Drippereth is a hydra, an account played by two players. DrippingGoofball forgot to log off his other account. Which is hysterical, considering vezo pre-emptively asking them not to do that.

[Drippereth]

oops

@Magna - I refer to both my personal history (DGB) and that of the Hydra. It may refer to Elli too, individually, I would need to check with him.

Yes it does. (Elli)

Vote: Kleedrac

In case that doesn't count:

Vote: Kleedrac

[vezopiraka]

Just in case I'm wrong does anyone have a descent case on Richard? I read him and didn't find him scummy so much as dumb-town. Am I wrong? All of the cases against him lack substance beyond-the-meta.

Well it was this post but I consider CMAR being scumier that this.

vote CryMeARiver

[Drippereth]

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

1. And why does buying him more time to claim and save himself seem scummy to you?

2. You're acting like you wish I hadn't given him time to claim, and that he had been lynched without doing so. That's extremely scummy. And he had to claim to save his own butt anyway, as evidenced by the fact that he DID.

3. unvote vote: SSBF Still up for a Migwelloni lynch, but SSBF saying I shouldn't have taken my vote away seems really wrong.

1. If RichardGHP were to flip scum, that would establish a connection between you and RichardGHP because you unvoted him just so he could claim.

Townies do that ALL THE TIME. I've done it as town. Probably more as town than scum. WIFOM and all, this is not a scumtell. The both of you are probably town. Please try to harass the scum instead of each other.

[Drippereth]

Just in case I'm wrong does anyone have a descent case on Richard? I read him and didn't find him scummy so much as dumb-town. Am I wrong? All of the cases against him lack substance beyond-the-meta.

Well it was this post

Exactly. Kleedrac is a horrible, horrible lurker and needs to die for the lurking alone. However, to pop up his head late in the wagon and declare a pretty strong town read on Richard, when he hasn't taken a stand on anything, smells like a scum that wants to evade detection, AND wash his hands of a townie lynch. He's not looking for scum at all, but he's showing up to announce his staying off the wagon. That's easy and safe when you know you the townies are.

DIE SCUM DIE

[Benmage]

Post 327 rocks!

You believe there is one giganto scum team?

Personally I have no clue. I’m not versed at all in the source material and don’t see anything in the flavor to lead me to think anything regarding the possible make-up of Scum in this game. We have the name “War of the 5 Kings” which indicates possible multiple factions. On the opposing side we have the line “Following Ned's death fragile alliances were made as an effort to make sure a rightful King sat on the Iron Throne started” which indicates banding together, which alludes to a solo scum faction.

Granted, flavor is flavor who cares I was just thinking out loud...but let me ask you this, have you been in a large game of this size(on this site) with 1 anti-town faction. If so please tell me which one or link.

Benmage: Looking at his posts in ISO, it's a whole load of setup speculation, role fishing and discussion about raising, plus other fluff posts, but very little scumhunting. Who's scum besides Drippereth?

I’m gonna give you the opportunity here to tuck your tail between your legs and walk away…do not talk to me again, unless I talk to you first.

[Axelrod]

I'm going to go ahead and /barn Percy at least as far as Hayker goes.

Hayker made This intoductory post in which he purported to do an analysis of Vez (perhaps one of the softest targets in the game). And also says:

Note:I have read the thread and have more thoughts then this. I think keep one post to one topic is simple though...and I'm working on being simple.(walks away with a chain rattling)

These further thoughts remain, as yet, unrevealed. Instead, all Hayker's subsequent posts have been extremely short, two questions to other players and a sarcastic comment. Look, here they are:

One - why was this post needed indeed?

Two - criticizing a bandwaggoner, in the least helpful way.

Three - odd question to 1/2 the Hydra head. Wants DGB's opinion on his play so far. Why? And why specifically DGB?

Vote: Hayker

Mainly I want these other thoughts Hayker supposedly had/has, but has yet to share with us.

[Benmage]

Hrmm gonna need to look into kleedrac after lunch.

[Drippereth]

They use their vote to scum hunt, and pretty effectively from what I've seen so far, so how is giving them twice the vote bad? They may not be twice the effective scumhunter, but I think it would definitely improve their play. At the least they could use one vote to push their top suspect and the other to probe at people like they regularly do.

My point is that DripHydra can still continue to probe at players with a single vote while highlighting their top suspect as above. If the style is effective with one vote (which the concensus is that it tends to be so) then adding a second vote doesn’t necessarily increase the effectiveness in my mind. A declarative player who builds cases can thus build two strong cases and utilize their vote to back them, or to build a single strong case and support it twice.?

ILLOGICAL
ILLOGICAL
ILLOGICAL

SYSTEM FAILURE

Why on Earth does this apply to Drippereth, but not other players? It's only a generality. You're moving down on the town/scum list.

[Drippereth]

Yeah, Hayker is scum too.

[Drippereth]

Percy, we've played together?
Or are you basing the hard-to-read thing for me on the games you've modded.

[Drippereth]

Oh wait nevermind, I forgot about ongoing Liar game.

[Drippereth]

TOWN

Drippereth
LynchMePls
Unsight
Benmage
Percy
Vezopiraka
DrModem hasdgfas
danakillsu
Super Smash Bros. Fan
RichardGHP

NEUTRAL

MagnaOfIllusion
Mina
MacavityLock
CryMeARiver
Axelrod
Rifka Viveka
animorpherv1

SCUM

Kleedrac (conditional on Richard flip) *** very scummy now
I doubt it
Deer

LURKERSCUM

Xvart
Paranoia
CCARaven4
Mikujin
Migwelloni
Hayker (active lurker)