Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[SaintKerrigan]

Why isn't it obvious that I'm town yet? (I would explain, but it would be better if you find out for yourselves.)

Because you're scum?

[VasudeVa]

Why isn't it obvious that I'm town yet? (I would explain, but it would be better if you find out for yourselves.)

Because you're scum?

This statement lacks a hammer vote.

FoS: Saint Kerrigan

[SaintKerrigan]

I already said I'm not voting you because I don't feel it's time for that yet. I'd rather have some discussion first. Nice try, though.

[farside22]

Why do you think both Fish and Vas could be scum? From the way they've butt heads I think it's one or the other; even with two scum teams, I just doubt we would get that lucky.

Maybe because of this:

The set-up will be 8 town, 2 Mafia A, 2 members of the "Anarcho-Syndicalist Mafia" (Mafia B

Why I'm voting for you:
Before your 228: I thought you were twisting my words.
But then 231 came. Read first partition.

Also humor me: Let's say I'm scum, who do you think is my scumbuddy?

This sound really familiar to me. oh that's because this was almost the same defense you used on me in another game.
*buzz*
And yes VV was scum in that game.

(And if you're worried about getting NKed and giving the ability right back to the scum, consider this: scum are very likely low on cash/in debt due to attempts to grab other items. If they haven't already borrowed their limit, they'll have to borrow more money to take the II ability, which will hinder them in paying off their other debts, and will most likely result in the scum going bankrupt, forcing a sale of II and giving us a very clear idea as to one of the scum. If you're just afraid of dying period, then that's being anti-town.)

Someone bought the NK thanks for playing scum.
Seriously outting the power role of a cop for what purpose exactly?

Also reading post 234 from SK who is voting for andrius but I never saw a case. Yeah I call SK scum at this point.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Farside: Pay attention. I said the person with Investigation Immunity should reveal themselves, not the Cop. Seriously, first you miss the post saying I'm V/LA and call me scummy for not posting, now for some reason you think I said the Cop should reveal himself when I never said that. What's going on here?

My vote is on Andrius because his posts feel scummy to me, but my top suspect is VV (who I'm not voting until a majority of us are ready to end the day).

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: I said "themselves" instead of "himself". Late night writing ftw.

[VasudeVa]

You are ignoring my post btw.

To reiterate:

Why would I say that the mechanics do not matter? Quite important if you're seriously considering that I'm lying.

##Vote: Saint Kerrigan

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Nobody Special ( 1 ) Andrius,
farside22 ( 0 )
Zang ( 0 )
Jack ( 1 ) Zang,
SaintKerrigan ( 1 ) VasudeVa,
Zajnet ( 0 )
NavyCherub ( 0 )
VasudeVa ( 6 ) Jack, Fishythefish, Steam-Powered Shovel, Zajnet, farside22,
Andrius ( 1 ) SaintKerrigan,
Fishythefish ( 0 )
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 1 ) NavyCherub,
flashstorm ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 2 ) Nobody Special, flashstorm,
Total Votes ( 13 )
Deadline: June 14th at 23:00 EDT
With 13 total votes, 7 needed to lynch.

[farside22]

Sorry SK I thought you were asking for a cop claim. I suspect already that the immunity was bought by scum.
As for the V/LA meh I missed it mostly because I saw you posting in the game your modding.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

"Anarcho-Syndicalist Mafia" (Mafia B

It appears the Mafia B have a name. Did no one else notice this? It seems obviously relevant.

SPS's vote hop is setting off my scumdar, especially when his first attempt was wrong and he corrected it by jumping on the actual larger bandwagon. Voting for bandwagoning's sake in RVS is one thing. Doing it post-RVS is something else entirely.

Bandwagonning is a valid early game (Day 1-2) strategy.

[farside22]

SPS: I have no clue about the relevants for naming one mafia group and not the other. Last time I modded a game I gave a name to both groups. I have seen a game where one group had a name and the other didn't. Game is still ongoing but I don't see the relevance in that game.

[SaintKerrigan]

You are ignoring my post btw.

To reiterate:

Why would I say that the mechanics do not matter? Quite important if you're seriously considering that I'm lying.

Because you'd been voted for being too quiet, so you had to say something. However, you were afraid that participating in the current discussion would give away your ulterior motives, so you simply dismissed the mechanics as "unimportant", in addition to saying a few other trivial things to appear like you weren't lurking scum.

And because I missed responding to this earlier:

1.That, or I could not have known the error I did until it was clearly pointed out to me. I don't disagree with you that it is good english. The main problem is it did not say what I wanted it to say.

How is it scummy that I was trying to make my point clear until the error of my ways have been pointed out? Of course, it's scummy to lie...but see here the message you have gotten from that sentence doesn't make sense (see cont.).

Because I don't believe you actually made an honest mistake.

2.That, or I could have just megalurked like you did(you're not getting away with that BTW.) until the wagon was actually threatening. But I chose to post.[/quote]

V/LA from playing games from today until early

Saturday

Sunday morning. I'll still be around for modding, but that's it.

And why would I post that the mechanics don't apply yet? It's just stupid to say that, since the mechanics DO apply.

Because you didn't realize how serious a goof it was until people called you out on it.

So, accdg. to you, because I was apparently being too quiet, I needed to post something that blatantly contradicts whatever is happening in the game? Makes no sense.

Scum trip up when they have to quick-post something to avoid the appearance of lurking.

[SaintKerrigan]

Failed tags...

2.That, or I could have just megalurked like you did(you're not getting away with that BTW.) until the wagon was actually threatening. But I chose to post.

V/LA from playing games from today until early Saturday Sunday morning. I'll still be around for modding, but that's it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Goddammit...

V/LA from playing games from today until early

Saturday

Sunday morning. I'll still be around for modding, but that's it.

[Fishythefish]

@VV: when commenting on why you thought Jack was scum, you were replying to farside's post which was above mine. I've got no desire to speculate on your scumbuddy right now; you haven't got any particular links that I have noticed. There are one or two players on your wagon I doubt are bussing you, but almost everyone would be reasonable for your buddy.

So, in 232 you thought I was scum because I was wrong about the post 191 was replying to? This is just a terrible reason.

Re: your mistake (or not). The reason I don't think it's a mistake is that it makes perfect sense as it stands, and isn't even a corruption of a similar sentence that pretty much makes sense and means what you are claiming. As for why you would have said it, I touched on this a while back - you'd been attacked for not talking about the mechanics during the auction. Wanting to defend yourself, you posted this, without thinking about how true it was.

@Zajnet: the line "we can't tell whether it was a mistake, so it's a nulltell" makes no sense. Compare with the line "we can't tell whether he's scum, so his play is a nulltell" - there's really no difference. You can look at his posts, and judge how likely the mistake he's claiming is. Here, for me at least, the answer is "very unlikely indeed".

Yeah, if a townie has II they should certainly claim so. There's no drawback - note in fact that you can't hand the ability back to scum, as nightkilled players' abilities don't go back on the market.

Re: mafia B having a name. In this game, the setup is sufficiently open that that can't mean anything.

FoS: SPS

for active lurking with lashings of IIoA. Who is scum and why?
@Zang: do you still think Jack is scum? I never really worked that one out - why is it exactly?
@Navy: who is scum?

@mod:

Please prod flashstorm and Nobody Special.

[zoraster]

Prods are out. I won't wait long before looking for replacements.

[Nobody Special]

Oh, look! A post.

I'm here. Not really interested in talking about mechanics that don't really matter/apply yet.

I cannot believe the shitstorm that has surrounded this phrase. I knew perfectly well what he meant.

I'm looking closer at those of you who were involved in that argument.

I, for one, am not convinced that farside is "so town." More on this later.

I doubt I'm able to get the wagon allll the way over onto farside today, but we'll work on tomorrow (if she's still here).

StK, it makes no sense that you are 'convinced' that Vas is scum yet you refuse to vote. Clarify, please? You also have a list of "other" scum. Please, which is most likely out of that list to be paired with VV?

[Fishythefish]

You knew what he meant?

1. "Talking" is not something that can "apply". What does the sentence "Talking about mechanics doesn't apply here" mean?
2. The word "don't" refers to the plural noun mechanics, not the singular noun "talking".

I can just about see how, at a stretch, you could claim this is a mistake - a corruption of "Not really interested in talking about mechanics that doesn't really matter/apply yet.". I think this second sentence is stilted, and I don't really believe it, but it's just about possible. But to claim the natural reading is that the talking about mechanics doesn't really matter yet is not credible.

Why are you particularly interested in who VV's scumbuddies might be? Do you think that he has few enough likely buddies that this makes him unlikely scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

StK, it makes no sense that you are 'convinced' that Vas is scum yet you refuse to vote. Clarify, please? You also have a list of "other" scum. Please, which is most likely out of that list to be paired with VV?

Dear. Fucking. God. I have only said this

at least

three times,

if

not more. How the hell did you miss this?

I AM NOT VOTING VASUDEVA BECAUSE HE IS AT L-1 AND I WOULD LIKE SOME MORE DISCUSSION BEFORE WE LYNCH HIM! HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS?!

Ok, now there should be absolutely

no

reason people should miss this now. Meaning: if I get asked this question again I am going to bust some skulls. Severely. Got it?/rant

Also, everyone who has commented on this issue so far has read that sentence differently from VV's claimed meaning, and they have all been in agreement on what they thought it meant. How is it that you read it like VV claimed it was supposed to be read? (Meaning: I'm wondering scumbuddy trying to derail the wagon/scum trying to look good if VV somehow flips town.)

Also, I don't particularly hunt buddies when we don't have flips. If I see something obvious I'll point it out, but lining up scumbuddies doesn't mean as much when we haven't had a scumflip yet. (That being said, you've made yourself rather conspicuous, defending VV and going against the grain on the grammar issue.)

[VasudeVa]

@Fish: Because, fishy, if I were scum and I had scumbuddies they would be going nutzos now, especially with daytalk(?). You cannot afford to lose 1 scumbuddy in this game, especially at D1, mainly because you would lose like 50% of your money/money gain and you cannot wire abilities to each other.

This, btw, should be why I'm obv town right about now. I've been at L-1 for a while you know.

---

@SK/Fish: Nice little theories on why I would say that! And yes, I did goof, but not in the way you theorize.

Still, the sentence that you think I said, does not make any fucking sense. The mechanics do apply and there is absolutely no reason why I should say that.

Okay let's say I did want to say that!
1. I do not gain town cred.
2. People will think I'm an idiot
3. I'll lose credibility
4. People will think I'm not paying attention to the game.
5. People will think I'm trying to discourage bidding etc.
6. Etc.

So, why would I say that? The only explanation left is that I made a mistake. Of course, I tried to defend my mistake because I did not know that I meant another thing and even suspected Fish for twisting my words. That should count for something.

[SaintKerrigan]

Of course, I tried to defend my mistake because

I did not know that I meant another thing

and even suspected Fish for twisting my words.

This, I can accept, is a grammar mistake. The other one, much less so.

Also, of course you'd say the mechanics apply now, after people have been harping on you about it.

This, btw, should be why I'm obv town right about now. I've been at L-1 for a while you know.

Only because I want some more discussion. You're living on borrowed time...

[VasudeVa]

Also, of course you'd say the mechanics apply now, after people have been harping on you about it.

Why would I say it in the first place then?

And don't BS me about being pressured. Jack was the only vote for me when I said that. Then this little shitstorm about my sentence happened, and people started voting.

[SaintKerrigan]

You didn't realize just how unpopular that opinion would be.

Jack specifically voted you for not posting. When scum get votes like that, they tend to want to post something to avoid drawing more lurkervotes.

[Nobody Special]

I've A) played with VV before, so I'm a little bit used to his idiomatic posting; and B) I'm not an idiot. English is a very difficult language to learn as a second language, I've interacted with enough people that I generally "translate" what they're saying into what I think they mean. (This may be a good thing or a bad thing.)

StK, I did NOT MISS YOUR HUGE BOLD SENTENCE. I just think that 'convinced' along with 'not voting' is suspicious. Period.

@Fish: I don't have much interest in who might be buddies with whom. I was asking StK what HE thought. I suspect you're not trying to misrep me, so I won't accuse you. But read me carefully next time.

Also, fish, I'm not arguing how I interpreted a sentence. I read it as I read it and that's all.

Also, I don't particularly hunt buddies when we don't have flips.

Good point. I guess. (grumble.)

[VasudeVa]

You didn't realize just how unpopular that opinion would be.

Jack specifically voted you for not posting. When scum get votes like that, they tend to want to post something to avoid drawing more lurkervotes.

The statement you think I said wasn't an opinion. It did not say anything along the lines of 'I don't think the mechanics apply yet' but it clearly, accdg. to you guys, says that 'the mechanics don't apply yet'.

That would be acceptable if I wanted to say something semi-bad but to want to say something that is real-fkn-bad-and-wagon-worthy(see above) is not.

If I wanted to say that, then it doesn't make sense with your second point on Jack's vote.