Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[Jack]

Explain to me why we should lynch Andrius over VV today?

He's scummier, see that totally fake bit I quoted. Totally fake scumhunting = mafia every time.

[SaintKerrigan]

Explain to me why we should lynch Andrius over VV today?

He's scummier, see that totally fake bit I quoted. Totally fake scumhunting = mafia every time.

Right. I guess VV can wait until tomorrow (as much as I'd still like to lynch him today).

##Unvote: VasudeVa
##Vote: Andrius

[Zajnet]

I have internet for about half an hour, just checking in. I'll post a catchup post in the next coupla days.

[Nobody Special]

@Mod: Votecount? (I'm feeling lazy today.)

@Andrius: Watch it again.

[zoraster]

@Mod: Votecount? (I'm feeling lazy today.)

@Andrius: Watch it again.

Asking for a vote count when neither a full page nor 24 hours has elapsed puts you dangerously close to violating Other Stuff: Rule 5.

Still, here it is:

Day 1 Vote Count

Nobody Special ( 1 ) Andrius,
farside22 ( 0 )
Zang ( 0 )
Jack ( 1 ) Zang,
SaintKerrigan ( 1 ) Steam-Powered Shovel,
Zajnet ( 0 )
NavyCherub ( 0 )
VasudeVa ( 2 ) Zajnet, farside22,
Andrius ( 5 ) Jack, Fishythefish, VasudeVa, SaintKerrigan,
Fishythefish ( 0 )
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 1 ) NavyCherub,
AlmasterGM ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 2 ) Nobody Special, AlmasterGM,
Total Votes ( 13 )
Deadline: June 14th at 23:00 EDT
With 13 total votes, 7 needed to lynch.

Marketplace

To place a bid, PM Zoraster with the highest price you would be willing to pay.

1 Mugger x 1

- This one-shot ability may be used at night against another player. This will steal all cash and abilities from that player, leaving that player with nothing. That player will retain any debt they had before. You may NOT mug yourself and if you are mafia you may not mug your teammate.
MB: 50 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

2 Banker

- This gives the ability to set the interest rate on debt. You may set it at 2%, 5%, 10%, or 15% . You must submit this before the night, and it will be in effect the night after you have submitted. So if you submit 5% on Day 2, it will become the interest rate for night 3. Players will be informed of the upcoming interest rate. Finally, this ability gives the Banker a 20% discount on all abilities being sold because of bankruptcy. For example, if Ability X is put on the market because of bankruptcy, and the Banker ends up purchasing that ability for $100, he will only have to pay $80.
MB: 10 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

3 Gunsmith

- This ability gives its owner the ability to investigate one person a night to see if they have a gun. Night Killers, Muggers, Cops will have guns. There are other abilities that may be purchased in the future that will also have a gun. If a player holds both a gun-role and the investigation immunity role, they will come up as not having a gun.
MB: 5 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

4 Promotion

- You receive a $75 wage increase (in addition to your current wage), but in order to receive this increase each night you must choose one player to promote under you. This player will receive a permanent $25 wage increase (in addition to their previous wage). You may only promote each person once.
MB: 75 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

5 World Cup Petty Better

- You may PM the mod with a full list of the result you believe will occur in each group stage World Cup match (who will win or draw). For every correct choice, you will receive $1. This PM must be received BEFORE the Mexico-South Africa match begins on 6/12. In the event this is stolen or sold, the new owner will get a chance to pick any games that come after the PM with selections is sent to the mod. The old owner will no longer receive money from future choices.
MB: 1 CB: 1 Deadline: SOLD 6/10/2010

Current bids may not be up-to-date. Current Bids and Deadlines will only be kept up-to-date by edit until the next vote count is posted.

Just a reminder that all actions must be in before nightfall or they will be counted as "no-action"

[Nobody Special]

@Mod: My apologies.

##Unvote

##Vote: Andrius

[AlmasterGM]

Page 4

I highly approve of Zajnet's move. The town has the power of more money on its side. We aren't going to win by sitting and let it collect interest. We should be using it as a weapon to deny scum the opportunity of purchasing anything.

Page 5

The breaking strategy is obvfail. I apologize on behalf of the previous person in my slot for that disaster.

Page 6

Jack rolefishes for the double voter, and then tries to make it look like it's Andrius's fault. Then it turns out he has the DV. I was going to say scum points for Jack, it turns out he has it, so nevermind. VV says he doesn't want to talk about the setup. In a game of this type, that makes no sense.

Page 7

Jack says VV is scummy for being quiet and contradicting himself. I strongly agree. VV suddenly has time to answer questions now that the wagon on him is building steam.

Page 8

NavyCherub compares VV to SPS and says SPS is contributing less. I don't like this read because even if SPS is contributing less, VV is still obviously scummier. Seems like an attempt to deflect.
Zajnet puts "pressure" on VV. Scum points for Zajnet.
VV is posting lots now, except none of it is goodposting. Scummy.

Page 9

Jack is scum.

He needs more votes.

I just bought a second one. Or are you offering to lend me yours?

Quoted because I LOL'd.

Page 10

NavyCherub points out that pickpocket is mostly a scum ability. I agree that it seems to attract scum, but keep in mind, if it hits scum from town, it pwns them. Remember, you take their NK that they blew all their money on OR you hit the team that probably wired all its money into one pool to try and buy NK but got outbit by the other team.

Page 12

VV gets right on the Farside counterwagon. The entire VV wagon goes away. Wtf. Farside needs to post moar, but I don't think she is intentionally trying to hide.

Page 13

Farside wagon dies. How predictable :eyeroll:. Andrius makes a really, really bad catchup post. People call him out for it. I agree it was bad, but I think VV is worse. I also don't like the people on the VV wagon at all. VV is getting on any wagon that isn't his, I don't like Jack's playstyle, and I don't know what fishy is contributing to this game but I can't really pick up on anything. The only person I don't mind is SK, but he seems to just be doing whatever Jack tells him.

##Vote: VV

Lots of setup spec in this game and not much breakage. At the point where it seems to also be happening at the expense of game-related content, I think it should slow or stop unless its absolutely relevant.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ AGM: Andrius is also one of my higher suspects. That's why I'm willing to lynch him now over VV and save VV for a later day.

[VasudeVa]

@Mod: How much money do we stand to gain with the world cup stuff anyhow?(Let's say I miraculously called all games right.)

---

In other news: Alm is town. That's all I have since my last post.

This game needs a shot in the arm.

[farside22]

AlMaster's post is nice and all. Can't say OMG town but better then flashstorm.
I need more then 10 minutes to come up with a more then half way case on a few people that I had a feel as scum besides VV.
I hope to have some time late tonight or early tomorrow.
God my life without MS at work is really hectic. Sorry I am trying.

[AlmasterGM]

@ AGM: Andrius is also one of my higher suspects. That's why I'm willing to lynch him now over VV and save VV for a later day.

Why do you think Andrius is scummier than VV?

[Andrius]

Why on earth would you be worried about that? You can't possibly be. No one has been asked to claim, and a claim can't clear anyone because scum can buy the abilities just like town can.

I'm not worried about it. You said so yourself. Moving along.

1. Asking an already OMGUSy player to become more OMGUSy.
2. On the farside wagon. Some fence sitting - the bad kind where you aren't undecided, just have no intention of doing anything until other people do.
3. A prediction that there is scum on the dispelled farside wagon. He doesn't give a reason for this (why is being on a fast dispelling wagon a scumtell?).
I dislike the comment on grammar - while it seems a silly thing to be arguing over, I think it's quite obvious here that the grammar of that sentence is hugely relevant to whether someone dropped an enormous scumtell. To dismiss that as irrelevant just because it's talking about grammar is both easy and wrong.

1) I asked someone to become more OMGUSy? Show me where.
2) Yeah, I'll just go ahead and follow Jack/VV/SK's lead and wagon whoever they vote because that's the right thing to do. /sarcasm Seriously. What do you expect, sheeple?
3) I was somehow convinced that SPS was on the farside wagon too. Ugh. IDK how that happened. I think it happened spontaneously, with SK and VV just jumping on the wagon with no good reason mentioned.
As for the grammar issue, its just a thing of mine. I don't care too overly much to look into how someone words their scentences unless there's something blatantly obvious with it like a breadcrumb. I don't care to get into debates over gerundial phrases in a mafiascum game. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I take that back. I'm not sorry to burst your bubble.

I am so sad that we are lynching Andrius today. . I wanted to see him do that thing he did in Greek Mythology(ie. Prance around the thread being confirmed scum. Also call out to your scumbuddies.).

Still, this feels staggeringly similar to his earlier D1 play at Greek Mythology(when I was still alive). (btw, Do other Greek Mythology alumni agree?)

##Vote: Andrius

Ok wow. I have 3 votes on me and you're already proclaiming me lynched? Jumping the gun a bit there, eh Vas?

If you're looking to see me prance around as confirmed scum swing by (censored for ongoing game) where I'm doing it right now, until I'm lynched. I won't do it here because I'm not scum.

"Staggeringly similar?" Personally, I feel that your vote on me was weak. You're basing my entire playstyle over your one experience with me where I was, yes, scumboss. Perhaps you should read into my town games as well, and see if I match. Odd. Since we're dwelling on Greek Mythology, you asked for like, half of the player's meta's in D1 of that game. Strange you're not doing it here.

##Vote: VasudeVa

And now you're willing to lynch anyone but yourself, to save your own hide. Be like Ooba in Greek Mythos D1, where he was willing to die to kill scum. You seem overly concerned with saving your own butt than hunting scum. You're hunting for a good lynch candidate that isn't you. Play pro-town or be lynched, Vas.

@ Andrius: We're lynching VV today (barring other epic claims of scumtastity), but don't worry, we'll come 'round for you tomorrow...

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll start paying off my debt now. lol Anyone want leftover dinner? I'll sell my dinner for cheap.

@Andrius: Watch it again.

What part are you talking about?!? I still don't get what you're trying to say.
And I take it you're just going to get away with voting me without reason? Why did you ask for a votecount before voting? Wanted to make sure you could fit on the wagon? Wanting to make sure your scumbuddy wasn't on it? Your vote is throwing yellow flags all over the place.

FoS: NobodySpecial

And yes, I figured out that the World Cup is for Soccer.

@ zor: Happy Scumday!

VV is getting on any wagon that isn't his, I don't like Jack's playstyle
...
The only person I don't mind is SK, but he seems to just be doing whatever Jack tells him.

Re-quoted for emphasis. VV's clearly out to survive D1 doing whatever it takes to do so. Jack's playstyle is odd indeed, especially the ignoring Zang earlier. And SK is following Jack alot lately.

Here SK votes farside after Jack does:

Vote: Farside22

I'll dig this for now.

SK adds the ##'s immediately after.
Here SK votes me after "convinced" by Jack:

Right. I guess VV can wait until tomorrow (as much as I'd still like to lynch him today).

##Unvote: VasudeVa
##Vote: Andrius

FoS: SaintKerrigan

Why do you think Andrius is scummier than VV?

This.

I'm also wondering what lurker_SPS and lurker_NC are up to.
I admit to using my crappy post for finding scum. So sue me.

[Fishythefish]

@Andrius: VV gave a some-of-these-are-scum list, which included precisely all the players on his wagon. SK wasn't there, and you asked why.
I'm not saying you should have followed the wagon blindly. Here's what you said:

Ok wow. The farside wagon jumped up out of nowhere. I agree with it to an extent. I just hope these wagons don't push us to what happened in a current game, where the town (before I replaced in) decided to wagon 3 people to L-1 and force claims. /bad idea

Ok wow. That farside22 wagon dispelled really fast. I'm willing to bet game money that there was a scum on that wagon (even if farside was scum herself. Nothing like bussing.)

So. What do you think of the farside wagon? You agree with it to an extent. Which is pretty much totally meaningless. What good points have been made against farside? We don't know. How likely is farside to be scum? We don't know. Are you likely to vote farside over other players? We don't know. This reads very much like scum who wants to be able to make their mind up when it becomes clearer whether this wagon is leading to a lynch.

I think you're very wrong about the grammar thing. If I say a sentence meaning "I'm scum", but I claim it has some other harmless interpretation, it's clearly important to work out whether that harmless interpretation is likely. Sounds like something you believe though.

Disliking VV's wagon hopping. Generally liking Andrius's response.

##vote: VV

[VasudeVa]

1. VV is wagon hopping!

While wagon hopping is in fact scummy, the fact that there is no other wagon(other than myself) is a little predicament. I'm mostly trying to make the most of my vote here, do you prefer that I withhold my vote and not give you any information?

2. VV is only interested in survival!

and is not the kamikazee bomb of protown play I once knew him to be!

Of course, I am interested in survival and there is no way I can BS to help town at this point given the semi-open nature of this game. Any self-respecting townie will not let themselves be mislynched.
And besides, I haven't lived long enough to fully play the unique mechanic of this game. So boo hoo, sorry if I want to have fun. But saying I'm scum for it is silly.

3. VV is not scumhunting!
Well. I'll admit that my scumhunt is very lax in this game. However do keep in mind that I am the one at question here. Any attempt of scumhunting that I am doing is blamed as 'wagoning'. Sooo, I'm like woah, wtf do I do here.
*and besides, doesn't suspecting your wagon count as scum hunting, hm? so after you flip/disperse the wagon, you know what to aim for?

---

@Fish 337: You are not making sense, again. You said that you think that because the sentence you thought I said did not make sense, therefore was a 'likely mistake'. However now you are bringing it up again and voting me. So reiterate: Did I make a mistake, or not?

@Alm: Well isn't this familiar. Replace in, and then tunnel. (Actually, that's why I think you're town(again(also parenthesis abuse)))


---

I think I am doing it wrong and I need another angle. Reread coming up whenever I feel like it.

[Fishythefish]

Actually, I was bringing up that sentence only in arguing with Andrius. It's still one of my reasons for voting you, certainly. I never said it was a "likely mistake" - I said that one particular piece of evidence made it

more

likely a mistake.

I don't understand your point on wagon hopping - why does there being only one wagon other than yours make you jump on it?

There's a difference between being interested in survival and

only

being interested in survival. From the way you hop on any wagon which might rival yours, it looks like you don't care who we lynch as long as it isn't you.

[VasudeVa]

@Fish: Okay then, let's get this straight once and for all:

Do you think I made a mistake there, or not?

[Fishythefish]

No, I don't think you made a mistake. I'm not 100% certain, but it's unlikely.

[VasudeVa]

YESSS! Thank you fish!

---
*Ahem*
Why Fish is Scum: A Qualitative Analysis of a Fishy Scumbag's Posts

ISO 31:
"I agree that the fact that what you said is pretty obviously a silly thing to say makes it more likely it was a genuine mistake. "

ISO 37:
"No, I don't think you made a mistake"

Saying that "I agree that the fact that what you said is pretty obviously a silly thing to say makes it more likely it was a genuine mistake. "
does not go with the sentiment
"I don't think you made a mistake"

Why say the first sentence

at all

when, in your mind, you are already thinking the second sentence.

There you have it, ladies and gentle men. Also, I would like to point out: ISO 37 is a classic example of cognitive dissonance.

##Vote: Fishy

---

Also, jumping around in wagons does not mean I'm

only

interested in survival. (How you guys managed to equate that with the other, I have no idea).

[Fishythefish]

There are some things that make me think it wasn't a mistake. There is one thing that makes me think it more likely to be a mistake. Why on earth shouldn't I consider both?

By your argument, if I think someone scum I should ignore all evidence to the contrary. You are saying precisely that it is wrong and scummy to consider both sides of the argument. Which is an extraordinarily horrible attack.

No access for ~24 hours.

[AlmasterGM]

I admit to using my crappy post for finding scum. So sue me.

I don't get it. How did making a crappy post help you find scum, specifically?

While wagon hopping is in fact scummy, the fact that there is no other wagon(other than myself) is a little predicament. I'm mostly trying to make the most of my vote here, do you prefer that I withhold my vote and not give you any information?

Vote hopping is what actually withholds information. We don't know who you'd prefer to lynch because it's clear you're just getting on whatever counterwagon you can find.

Of course, I am interested in survival and there is no way I can BS to help town at this point given the semi-open nature of this game. Any self-respecting townie will not let themselves be mislynched.

The point isn't that you can't defend yourself. Remember, though, that a vote is a dangerous tool. You are endorsing the lynch of pretty much anyone so long as it isn't you. This doesn't help the town and seems really scummy.

VV's last post has decent content, but for some reason I still get a gut scummy vibe from it - like he went out and made it specifically because he knew people were yelling at him for not scumhunting. idk, though.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

##Vote: VasudeVa

ISGMEOY: SaintKerrigan

[VasudeVa]

Vote hopping is what actually withholds information. We don't know who you'd prefer to lynch because it's clear you're just getting on whatever counterwagon you can find.

Point taken. But see here, there is a reason why I started vote-hopping all of a sudden~
*See cont.*

VV's last post has decent content, but for some reason I still get a gut scummy vibe from it - like he went out and made it specifically because he knew people were yelling at him for not scumhunting. idk, though.

How does that make me more likelier to be scum than others?

I agree that people did have to yell at me to look for scum, but see here that could also come from a townie survival mode. (IMO, Survival mode should not be considered a scumtell. I do not get how you people think that townies are suicidal lemmings who do not want to have fun.)

Okay if that's not convincing, what would a townie do if all of town suddenly starts yelling at him for not scumhunting?(Actually, if you haven't noticed, I made a case that I was/am scumhunting. Do you disagree?)

There are some things that make me think it wasn't a mistake. There is one thing that makes me think it more likely to be a mistake. Why on earth shouldn't I consider both?

By your argument, if I think someone scum I should ignore all evidence to the contrary. You are saying precisely that it is wrong and scummy to consider both sides of the argument. Which is an extraordinarily horrible attack.

Considering both sides is not why I think you're scum.

But the important thing here is WHY you posted the two statements in question.

Why post ISO 31 AT ALL if in your mind you already were thinking ISO 37?

There is simply no excuse for a townie to post BOTH when they clearly have contradictory

sentiments

(Not statements, sentiments mind you.).

A scumbag, however, has something to gain from that ie. If suddenly you need to change statements, you can.

[VasudeVa]

For the blind: Oh Joy, I'm at L-1 again.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Nobody Special ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
Zang ( 0 )
Jack ( 1 ) Zang,
SaintKerrigan ( 0 )
Zajnet ( 0 )
NavyCherub ( 0 )
VasudeVa ( 6 ) Zajnet, farside22, AlmasterGM, Andrius, Fishythefish, Steam-Powered Shovel,
Andrius ( 4 ) Jack, SaintKerrigan, Nobody Special, SaintKerrigan, Nobody Special,
Fishythefish ( 1 ) VasudeVa,
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 1 ) NavyCherub,
AlmasterGM ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 13 )
Deadline: June 14th at 23:00 EDT
With 13 total votes, 7 needed to lynch.

Marketplace

To place a bid, PM Zoraster with the highest price you would be willing to pay.

1 Mugger x 1

- This one-shot ability may be used at night against another player. This will steal all cash and abilities from that player, leaving that player with nothing. That player will retain any debt they had before. You may NOT mug yourself and if you are mafia you may not mug your teammate.
MB: 50 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

2 Banker

- This gives the ability to set the interest rate on debt. You may set it at 2%, 5%, 10%, or 15% . You must submit this before the night, and it will be in effect the night after you have submitted. So if you submit 5% on Day 2, it will become the interest rate for night 3. Players will be informed of the upcoming interest rate. Finally, this ability gives the Banker a 20% discount on all abilities being sold because of bankruptcy. For example, if Ability X is put on the market because of bankruptcy, and the Banker ends up purchasing that ability for $100, he will only have to pay $80.
MB: 10 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

3 Gunsmith

- This ability gives its owner the ability to investigate one person a night to see if they have a gun. Night Killers, Muggers, Cops will have guns. There are other abilities that may be purchased in the future that will also have a gun. If a player holds both a gun-role and the investigation immunity role, they will come up as not having a gun.
MB: 5 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

4 Promotion

- You receive a $75 wage increase (in addition to your current wage), but in order to receive this increase each night you must choose one player to promote under you. This player will receive a permanent $25 wage increase (in addition to their previous wage). You may only promote each person once.
MB: 75 CB: 0 Deadline: Not Yet Open - Opens 6/15

5 World Cup Petty Better

- You may PM the mod with a full list of the result you believe will occur in each group stage World Cup match (who will win or draw). For every correct choice, you will receive $1. This PM must be received BEFORE the Mexico-South Africa match begins on 6/12. In the event this is stolen or sold, the new owner will get a chance to pick any games that come after the PM with selections is sent to the mod. The old owner will no longer receive money from future choices.
MB: 1 CB: 1 Deadline: SOLD 6/10/2010

Current bids may not be up-to-date. Current Bids and Deadlines will only be kept up-to-date by edit until the next vote count is posted.

[Jack]

FoS: VV

I've only playing in one other game with him, so I'd have to meta him to see if he's like this when he's scum.

I'm not getting sucked into this ESL debate, since we had enough of that in the other game.

Irrelevant discussion, since I posted above VV:
Not in this game. lol
Nothing's wrong. IRL you? YOU EXIST IRL? We're all actual people? /sarcasm I was wondering what

he

you were holding. I thought it was a cookie. /hungry I like your hair, BTW. The only pic of me that I have on my comp is me in a tux.

OK WOW GUYS. We're arguing over a GRAMMER ERROR? Sheesh. I am not getting involved with an ESL discussion.

Andrius on VV at the time when VV was acting his scummiest. Ever do that meta read Andrius? Also can you explain the comment in that first quote? (the "I'd have to meta him to see if he's like this when he's scum" comment).

I am so sad that we are lynching Andrius today. . I wanted to see him do that thing he did in Greek Mythology(ie. Prance around the thread being confirmed scum. Also call out to your scumbuddies.).

Still, this feels staggeringly similar to his earlier D1 play at Greek Mythology(when I was still alive). (btw, Do other Greek Mythology alumni agree?)

##Vote: Andrius

Ok wow. I have 3 votes on me and you're already proclaiming me lynched? Jumping the gun a bit there, eh Vas?

If you're looking to see me prance around as confirmed scum swing by (censored for ongoing game) where I'm doing it right now, until I'm lynched. I won't do it here because I'm not scum.

"Staggeringly similar?" Personally, I feel that your vote on me was weak. You're basing my entire playstyle over your one experience with me where I was, yes, scumboss. Perhaps you should read into my town games as well, and see if I match. Odd. Since we're dwelling on Greek Mythology, you asked for like, half of the player's meta's in D1 of that game. Strange you're not doing it here.

##Vote: VasudeVa

And now you're willing to lynch anyone but yourself, to save your own hide. Be like Ooba in Greek Mythos D1, where he was willing to die to kill scum. You seem overly concerned with saving your own butt than hunting scum. You're hunting for a good lynch candidate that isn't you. Play pro-town or be lynched, Vas.

Andrius on VV after there are a bunch of votes on Andrius.