Mini 988 - Small Town Mafia GAME OVER

[Cuetlachtli]

Man in the games I have played in on this site, it has usually taken a whole week to get to 8-10 pages. Sigh...

here is my token RVS vote:

vote: Zach

hi Zach

unvote

I think Butterfly is scum and I have thought so since Pg1, Post 23 where Butterfly seems to take the Exilon wagon too seriously, saying that Exilon is prob town, yet he votes him anyways.

Butterfly continues to be scummy for reasons already stated by other players.

There is one thing that hasn't been said about Butter that I spotted on Page 6, Post 163. Butter says he doesn't have a read on anybody. Newb scum might have trouble manufacturing scum reads. Also, after he retracts his "no read" statement in ISO 15 on Friday, he waits until noon on Saturday to give his reads. One of his reads is OMGUS on Jason and the other is on an inactive player, Antonio.

I am going to vote Butter at the end of this post.

If Butter flips scum, the two players most likely to be his scum buddies are DavidParker and Nacho, and Concerned to a lesser extent.

Posts 83, 108, 168 all instances of possible chainsaw defense/smoke screen, whatever you want to call it, if Butter flips scum.

Post 206 is possible buss.

vote: The Butterfly

I will be around the rest of today. Tomorrow I am working late so I won't be around. I should be available the rest of the week after Monday.

[0x1de]

@0x: Where did I say Butterfly was scummy, again?

You haven't said either way and your response is awfully defensive. Basically you've completely side-stepped the question by posing your own rhetorical one. What I want to know is: what is your opinion of Butterfly and, more importantly,

why

do you think that?

[0x1de]

My position on Butterfly: Neutral.

None of the arguments for his scumminess are compelling. It looks like a policy lynch to me.

Zach has come up with some good reasons why we should lynch him anyway, but they don't convince me. In fact he's annoying me because he goes too far. You shouldn't provide ammunition for scum, and

always

leave enough rope so they can hang themselves.

DavidParker is the only one on the Butterfly wagon who hasn't really given a reason why. In fact he's hardly contributed anything much. Classic bandwagonning and lurking, I'd say.

Vote: David Parker.

[0x1de]

I am scum.

Now, Smash and Jason, explain

why

that makes me mafia. I'd appreciate the rest of you keeping your opinions to yourselves until they have both responded. Thanks.

[jasonT1981]

You realize how bloody anti-town that makes you right now?

Ox and Butterfly = scum

[jasonT1981]

you do also realize how much bloody WIFOM you just intentionally created also with that? that in its self is scummy as hell..

2 scum claims.

Lynch Butterfly now, Ox tomorrow. We have 2 people posted scum claims now...

[DavidParker]

Hey ox1de you're right, so thanks for voting for me to force me to be more active. I was just late to get into the discussion (was page 8 when I got here after my random vote) and have struggled to catch up and get involved with the discussion.

If you want I could tell you who I find scummy or not, but I've yet to build up any cases due to lack of time, because I've become nocturnal while the World Cup is on (I live in Australia), so I'd rather not post accusations at people and call them scummy when I've yet to build a proper case.

[0x1de]

You realize how bloody anti-town that makes you right now?

Yet you cannot, or will not, explain why. And it's three scum claims, by the way.

[Cuetlachtli]

honestly...

Butterfly's play in general > "I am scum" claim

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@jasonT1981: Nachomamma8's and 0x1de's claim were not serious. Nachomamma8's scum claim was used to start up a discussion that gave us more then normal to work on within the period. 0x1de's scum claim was to bring up a good question.

I am scum.

Now, Smash and Jason, explain

why

that makes me mafia. I'd appreciate the rest of you keeping your opinions to yourselves until they have both responded. Thanks.

Given that you clearly weren't serious about that, I won't hold you against it (Applies to Nachomamma8 as well, as he clearly had a good reason for it, giving us a fast start to discussions, as for you, you're trying to bring up a point). But I'll answer your question.

Claiming scum indicates that you yourself have given up and admits to being scum. Most newbies would not be that stupid to claim scum, let alone be serious about it. The Butterfly's claim was certainly a lot more serious then your scum claim or Nachomamma8's claim, as unlike these two claims, he's basically throwing up a sign saying "I AM SCUM, KILL ME!". Then he attempts to hide that fact by blaming his brother, making him look extremely bad and make one hell of an embarrassment out of himself. If he was town,

he would never do this

.

[jasonT1981]

I am warey of ANYONE who claims scum... it creates so much WIFOM regardless of it being serious or not and that is a bad thing for town.

His claim may not have been 'serious' but how are we to know if there is any truth behind it or not.. hence the WIFOM it introduces... and hence why it is scummy. regardless of being serious or not.

[Exilon]

Yeah.. you guys still seem to be ignoring my point. Of course Butterfly himself wouldn't have done it. His brother, on the other hand, would.
Thanks SSBF and everyone else for pointing that out. /sarcasm

On to interesting things.

Butterfly's play in general > "I am scum" claim

Perfect.

---

Jason's pushing for both lynches doesn't rub me in the right way. Also his answer for "why lynch Butter now" wasn't very satisfying.

[DavidParker]

Yes, I also hate seeing scum claims. It's basically like a scummy way of not claiming, but doesn't necessarily make you scum.

I think pushing for BOTH of their lynches is scummy as well. I mean, it's very plausible neither are scum, and the fact you are deadset on lynching both (when could easily be 2 mis lynches) sent signals flying!

[DavidParker]

Also, it is important we look at how the scum claims differ greatly.

Butterfly's: If it was his brother: Well then we don't know what to make of it. IT could be his brother trying to get him killed when he's a VT or PR. Or it could be his brother trying to ruin his game for him as scum.

If it's not his brother: Well then he's probably scum... I'm not sure why he'd claim it was his brother if he was actually scum and did it on purpose.. Regardless, he's dealt with the pressure on him very poorly.

Other scum claims: Well nothing can be made of them, they were more just "jokes" and to "prove a point" (look at ox1de) than anything. These players may be scum, but I don't think their scum claims are really signs of scumminess here, whereas butterfly's claim and how he dealt with it afterwards is definitely scummy.

[Concerned]

Waiting on Antonio's thoughts before hammering...

If anyone is heavily agaisnt this, speak now, it may or may not stop me from hammering but I'd like to know either way.

[Antonio]

Apologies for lack of participation. Drinking and world cup kept me busy during weekend.

Halfway through reading, let me just point out I found the "rolefishing" argument against butterfly to be pretty meritless. His reactions to the pressure, however, was highly sketchy.

While at this point I'm getting comfortable with Butterfly lynch, is there a big rush? More discussion couldn't hurt, and wouldn't mind finish reading.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Reading through Concerned ISO's, I realize that Concerned was distancing from The Butterfly. Some of his earlier post included him defending him. Later on, he shows willingness to hammer The Butterfly.

@Concerned: I'm heavily against lynching now. We haven't used nearly enough time in this game to analyze other players. We should lynch when it gets close to the deadline. That way, we'll be a lot more certain on a lynch, plus we'll get more information out of it, even if it's on the same person.

But if you're going to hammer early, at least let Antonio finish his reading.

[Zachrulez]

@Concerned: I'm heavily against lynching now. We haven't used nearly enough time in this game to analyze other players. We should lynch when it gets close to the deadline. That way, we'll be a lot more certain on a lynch, plus we'll get more information out of it, even if it's on the same person.

Disagree. Just because there's time to deadline doesn't mean that we have to use it all. There is a such thing as too much discussion. Also, scrambling for lynches at deadline tends to result in weaker lynches.

[The Butterfly]

You realize how bloody anti-town that makes you right now?

Ox and Butterfly = scum

im sorry for bringing this up again, but why did you jump on Ox so quickly?
he was very sacasticly saying that he was scum and makeing a question with it... so why did you say he was scum? all he did was ask a question.

[Zachrulez]

By the way, Jason is town.

[jasonT1981]

You realize how bloody anti-town that makes you right now?

Ox and Butterfly = scum

im sorry for bringing this up again, but why did you jump on Ox so quickly?
he was very sacasticly saying that he was scum and makeing a question with it... so why did you say he was scum? all he did was ask a question.

you seem to not be paying attention, I already had suspicions of Ox dating back to this post

Where / When do Zach and Concerned show eagerness for a quicklynch?

They didn't' ok.

It's just that Zach and Concerned both jumped on your wagon real quick.

but you clearly said they did...

Zach and Concerned seem eager for an early lynch

.

now your saying they didn't? why the backpeddling?

backpeddling - scumtell

And I followed that post up with a vote

[Zachrulez]

Jason, Ox was saying that he thought we seemed eager for an early lynch. That was his opinion.

He never said that we actually stated that we wanted a quick lynch.

I really don't see him twisting facts. I just see him coming to a different conclusion that I obviously don't agree with.

[jasonT1981]

Fair enough, I was making the point though to Buttterfly that I had suspicion on him earlier on in the game and not just from that one post. And I actually had not jumped on him quickly as Butterfly was saying.

the point of my post was that I wanted to show him, I was not jumping on like he said and had earlier voiced concern towards Ox

[Zachrulez]

Oh, you mean because he tried to make it sound as though it appeared out of thin air?

[jasonT1981]

basically yes. His post suggested, at least to me that I just jumped on it with no mention of.... or suspicion of Ox before hand.