Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[Wickedestjr]

Sando, please stop ignoring my points against you.

[Wickedestjr]

Spyrex is lurking.

What's your point? Lurking =/= scum

all the time, but we could pressure vote him or something.

IMO lurkers are fine d1 lynches actually

...

So is it a pressure vote or is it a vote to lynch him? Also, the two bolded portions are very contradictory. Way to take two different stances twice.

Nopo's claim is balls-out as scum and I'm not seeing it. At all. Especially as a death miller. Its gonna take a lot more than ohh sigh lets lynch the claimed miller.

Seriously SpyreX? Have you completely forgotten Mafia 96: Murder in Emerald City? Ya'know, the game where Kublai Khan, Mafia, claimed miller in his first post and survived to the end and won. I find it very hard to believe that you would forget that game. It was only a year ago.

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX

Seriously? He's asking me why I find him scummy, when

I have never said that I find him scummy

.

That is a big fat lie:

I've merely said that I'm suspicious of you for your current play

. I haven't voted you, I haven't said you're scum, I haven't FOS'd you.

[Wickedestjr]

@llama and SSBF (who are both online) - What do you think about my points against Sando and SpyreX?

[llamaeatataco]

damn you wicked, I was going to do pretty much that exact same thing, but Italicizing that portion instead of bolding it. D:<

So is it a pressure vote or is it a vote to lynch him? Also, the two bolded portions are very contradictory. Way to take two different stances twice.

I was sort of thinking out loud... It's actually both. It's a pressure vote that is going to become a lynch vote if he doesn't do some stuff. Also, I'm not taking two different stances. They aren't contradictory if you think about it... Lurking isn't a 100% guaranteed scumtell, but it IS anti-town. Lurkers are good d1 lynches because they are anti-town, not necessarily scummy. Or, rather, not pro-town. And what do you mean by twice? If you're alluding to Sando's attempt to make my complex thoughts seem contradictory, I'm just going to ignore you about that particular issue.

[Wickedestjr]

damn you wicked, I was going to do pretty much that exact same thing, but Italicizing that portion instead of bolding it. D:<

So is it a pressure vote or is it a vote to lynch him? Also, the two bolded portions are very contradictory. Way to take two different stances twice.

I was sort of thinking out loud... It's actually both. It's a pressure vote that is going to become a lynch vote if he doesn't do some stuff. Also, I'm not taking two different stances. They aren't contradictory if you think about it... Lurking isn't a 100% guaranteed scumtell, but it IS anti-town. Lurkers are good d1 lynches because they are anti-town, not necessarily scummy. Or, rather, not pro-town. And what do you mean by twice? If you're alluding to Sando's attempt to make my complex thoughts seem contradictory, I'm just going to ignore you about that particular issue.

Alright, that makes sense. When I said 'twice' I was referring to you saying it was a pressure vote but a vote that could lead to a lynch and for saying it is not scummy, but lynchworthy.

[charter]

Ugh, catch up tomorrow.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Unvote

, as I don't think llamaeatataco is that scummy anymore.

Spyrex is lurking. What's your point? Lurking =/= scum all the time, but we could pressure vote him or something. IMO lurkers are fine d1 lynches actually...

unvote, vote:spyrex

What's the big difference between here? Perhaps its a crypto vote and hiphop prepping for a jump?

Whoosha

Unvote, Vote: Llama

This is an OMGUS reply and vote. I honestly don't see how that quote is scummy at all. Why was that quote scummy?

What exactly did you do to change your playstyle?

I tend to get more emotional then most people, so one thing I obviously want to stop doing is AtE. I'm known for my "jump before thinking" play over in Smash World Forums, so I want to get rid of that as well. Basically, I'm trying to find a solid game play that actually suits me well.

@llama and SSBF (who are both online) - What do you think about my points against Sando and SpyreX?

Sando: I actually like it. It's currently giving me a slight scum read on him. Need to focus more on him.

SpyreX: Agree with the case surrounding him (As a matter of fact,

Vote: SpyreX

). However, unless the case that's being thrown around has been influencing you, I'm not sure how meta reasons warrants a vote. Do you have anything else you don't like about him that no one else has pointed out?

[AlmasterGM]

Ugh, catch up tomorrow.

[llamaeatataco]

This is an OMGUS reply and vote. I honestly don't see how that quote is scummy at all. Why was that quote scummy?

Not quite straight up OMGUS, but the cover up for it was heinously flimsy.

Seriously SpyreX? Have you completely forgotten Mafia 96: Murder in Emerald City? Ya'know, the game where Kublai Khan, Mafia, claimed miller in his first post and survived to the end and won. I find it very hard to believe that you would forget that game. It was only a year ago. Unvote. Vote: SpyreX

This is the only one I don't agree with. Claiming miller is still a ballsy move as mafia. Either town thinks you're real miller or they think you're mafia trying to look like miller. Sure claiming miller saves you from the cop, but for that very reason it makes you more likely to get lynched. As scum, it's a wifom move as I sated before, and by very nature all wifom tactics are ballsy.

[SpyreX]

Seriously SpyreX? Have you completely forgotten Mafia 96: Murder in Emerald City? Ya'know, the game where Kublai Khan, Mafia, claimed miller in his first post and survived to the end and won. I find it very hard to believe that you would forget that game. It was only a year ago. Unvote. Vote: SpyreX

As awesome as meta is lets take a step back:

I remember that game. Well.

However, now like then it still holds true. He took a gamble and it payed off in spades. That doesn't change it was a gamble and the normal course of action isn't drastically changed.

However, how, HOW can you do this when you SEE EXACTLY what I'm saying with the twosided llama we hath here.

Lets take a look at the reply:

Actually Spyrex, there isn't really a difference. At that point in time I figured they were going for some sort of weird 'you played differently in this game where you were town, so you must be scum' things. Now you're just straight up not really saying anything of value, and active lurkers are good d1 lynches.

So there's no difference and it just happened to fit in with this awesome new lynch, lynch gojuice?

And yes this is totally 1000% OMGUS because my lord thats what I did right. I didn't actually, ya know, say that you're playing at that vote as a function of the general feel of the game or anything rite.

You know, like maybe, just maybe, it was a shameless bandwagon RITE.

[Sando]

That is a big fat lie:

How about you tell me in this, the actual comment I made about hiphop, where I said he was scummy:

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

How about you show me where, ever, I've said that I found hiphop scummy. Scummy, not 'suspicious'. I'll tell you when I find someone scummy.

You're putting words in my mouth, get over it.

And don't use 96 as an excuse to either vote spyrex or lynch the claimed miller. That was exceedingly exceptional circumstances, given he was investigated N0. Also, what do you expect a town-miller to do?

Your reasoning for voting Spyrex is extremely weak.

[hiphop]

Prehaps it's just me, but I really did not like nopointinactingup's early claim. I really don't see the benefit of claiming this early in the game when we still have plenty of time left (I guaratee you the exact same result would happen if he claimed closer to the end of the game).

Do you still feel this way? Is he scummy for it?

Nopoint- just to make things clear- Are you a death miller?

Yes, you're vote on Almaster was terrible, it was basically 'ahah! Scum has fallen into my devious trap'. Whether you still think he's scum, the initial vote was pretty bad. People following were just as bad.

Did you read this paragraph-

Truth be told, when I first saw the vote, I thought that you had somewhat of a legit reason for having a vote on me. I was thinking that to you obnoxious equals scummy. Not my idea of scummy, but everybody has their own views, but when you come back and say obnoxious does not equal scummy, then I think, now wait a minute, he is bwing me, for a non-scummy reason. Why? And the most logical answer is piling on and hoping to drive me towards a mis-lynch. Therefore you are scummy for the piling on for no reason whatsoever.

You did happen to notice how I posted after his vote, and did not comment on it, but after crypto asked his that questio, I was all over it.

Are we playing in hypothetical land now? I wouldn't believe you, you had to know you'd get at least 2-3 votes, you're not an idiot, and you jumped on the first person to BW you.

Well it is true. I guess I must be an idiot, but I am not stupid. I would not intentionally draw a bw on myself, just so there can be a bw. There are plenty of newbies to do that for me. And no i did not jump on the first person to bw on me. Truth be told charter placed the second vote on me, but as I saw it, it was rvs. Almaster as I believed did place the first real vote on me, and I did not find a problem with it until I found out that his reasons were not legit, as in, him saying obnoxious is not scummy. Then I had a problem with it.

Regarding the Miller claim, this isn't simply a Miller claim though, this is a Death Miller, which as far as I'm aware is a very rarely used role.

You know what, I missed this. In fact I must have read the two posts of his regarding his claim like 5 times before I saw it. If this is true and he does die, I don't know how I will take it. Whether to think he is scum and use his connections or to think he is town and ignore him. Either way, we should still follow the plan and lynch him if he is scummy. I also read that millers are put into the game to make the sides more even because the town side has the favor. So we do have the advantage either way.

Spyrex is lurking. What's your point? Lurking =/= scum all the time, but we could pressure vote him or something. IMO lurkers are fine d1 lynches actually...

unvote, vote:spyrex

Currently I am in no mood to lynch Spyrex. i have seen his town play, and if he is still that good, I want to at least keep him into day 2 if possible. If that is giving him a free pass than so be it.

Nopo's claim is balls-out as scum and I'm not seeing it. At all. Especially as a death miller. Its gonna take a lot more than ohh sigh lets lynch the claimed miller.

Right now I am agreeing. He basically gave the cop a free investigation, and that is pro-town to me.

hiphop prepping for a jump?

Only to be pushed back away from the ledge. But like I said, I had no intention to vote you at the moment.

Not sure what to think of nopoint's claim. I don't have a problem with early claims, but I don't see why he didn't just claim in his very first post instead of waiting until now.

Why should we talk about it the entire day 1, when we can talk about what is really important like who is scum? Imo it might have been better for him to wait even longer than he did.

posts right after each other-

Sando, please stop ignoring my points against you.

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX

Why the vote? You make a big deal about Sando ignoring your case, and yet you change your vote anyways. I agree with Spyrex, am I scummy for that? In fact, why is it scummy at all? If it was scummy, wouldn't you vote for nopoint instead? If you are saying Spyrex is scum for that, wouldn't that mean nopoint is scum too? What does Spyrex have to gain by saying such a thing?

And don't use 96 as an excuse to either vote spyrex or lynch the claimed miller. That was exceedingly exceptional circumstances, given he was investigated N0. Also, what do you expect a town-miller to do?

Your reasoning for voting Spyrex is extremely weak.

I agree with this 100%. I see no reason to place a vote on Spyrex for the reasons he gave.

fos wicked

Is it just me or does SSBF have follow the town stamped all over his posts. Let's take a look at his only 2 non-rvs votes.

I don't have a better target at the moment and

I do like Sando's case on llamaeatataco

, so

Unvote, Vote: llamaeatataco

.

SpyreX:

Agree with the case surrounding him

(As a matter of fact,

Vote: SpyreX

).

Hmm...Looks like it.

fos: ssbf

What exactly do you agree with on the case on Spyrex?

@podium- why don't you put your foot down, and tell us who you find scummy, instead of making comments here and there. And perhaps...I don't know...maybe...place a VOTE. Or at least tell us why you are not placing a vote.

[crypto]

Yeah,

unvote; vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

. Spyre is still fairly scummy but not as much as before his blistering riposte. SSBF's early posts gave me an impression of a cautious player who doesn't quickly throw his votes around based on other players' cases, especially this soon, and his recent behavior's contradicted that. Whoop-dee-doo.

[crypto]

Actually, I just think I know what you're doing and where it will hopefully go and I want to see if it works.

Yo.

[podium123456]

OK, i read the last 4 or so pages and got caught up.

wicked - nothing standing out so far. the spyrex vote makes him look better to me, upon first impression. null leaning town

Hiphop - Dont know if scum would be that obnoxious out of the gate. Null read.

charter - was early on the hiphop vote. Calls out (and votes) noactingup for lurking... while he lurks. Null leaning scum.

spyrex - seemed like active lurking until he got called out. bored townie? null leaning town.

noactingup - tricky. very tricky. i would have rather had seen the claim near the end of the day, after we had a chance to draw an opinion on your discussions/arguments. you will forever be a big question mark now. im not sure that i would be opposed to lynching him now... just to get rid of the question.

llama - meh. plays new at times, sloppy at others. null with a slight town lean.

ssbf - as someone pointed out, seems eager to follow town. havent seen anything that stands out too bad yet (besides my earlier criticism). null.

almaster - need to examine him closer. not sure that i believe his hiphop vote was pure random. gut feeling against him right now. scummy.

crypto - iso of him screams active lurker. seems verrry eager for a lynch on anyone ("more voting" "im up for a wagon on spyre"), lots of vote changing. scummy.

sando - dont like how he was pressuring llama earlier. REALLY like what wicked brought up here:

First he says that he thinks hiphop was looking "very good" until his vote or almasterg.

I don't see what exactly hiphop could've done to make him look very good this early in the game.

I thought he looked townish for attracting so much attention to himself, but

Sando even says that he feels hiphop's play was a bit labored

, so I don't think that's the reason for his town read.

Then there's an unusually strong town read on podium.

Sando what gave you a strong town read on me at that time?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Right now, i feel like i would be comfortable lynching crypto, sandro, or possibly noactingup.

VOTE: Sando

[Sando]

Hiphop looked pro-town (very good) because he was doing his best to act obnoxious and draw attention to himself. 'Very good' was probably a bad term to use, as I don't think it's good play, but I think it's townie play. I didn't like his vote on almaster, it made his buffoon play look less like drawing out scum, and more like jumping on someone who fell into his 'trap'. Just because I think it looked like a fairly obvious (labored) attempt doesn't change my view of the motivations behind it.

You were townie for reacting how you did to hiphop, and not getting drawn into silly arguments and attacking such an obvious target. Your view of hiphop made me think town, scum aren't likely to declare a 'buffoon' town in my opinion.

[crypto]

crypto - iso of him screams active lurker. seems verrry eager for a lynch on anyone ("more voting" "im up for a wagon on spyre"), lots of vote changing. scummy.

I think that you, sir, need an education.

Asking for more voting is not asking for a lynch. I don't know how you could possibly arrive at that conclusion. Don't construe the two as synonymous when they clearly are not.

I was in fact up for a wagon on Spyre because I found Spyre suspicious. Has it occurred to you that townies have an obligation to pressure players they find scummy? I think it's rather obvious that that is the point of the game.

What about "lots of vote changing" is scummy to you? How does shifting my vote around help my top-secret sinister scum agenda?

[llamaeatataco]

So there's no difference and it just happened to fit in with this awesome new lynch, lynch gojuice?

And yes this is totally 1000% OMGUS because my lord thats what I did right. I didn't actually, ya know, say that you're playing at that vote as a function of the general feel of the game or anything rite.

You know, like maybe, just maybe, it was a shameless bandwagon RITE.

Actually, there was a difference now that I think about it. You lurked moar. Your attempt to disguise it was pathetic. 'zomg you're just bandwagoning you must be scum!'

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

Now, the recently given interpretation of that post:

Hiphop looked pro-town (very good) because he was doing his best to act obnoxious and draw attention to himself. 'Very good' was probably a bad term to use, as I don't think it's good play, but I think it's townie play. I didn't like his vote on almaster, it made his buffoon play look less like drawing out scum, and more like jumping on someone who fell into his 'trap'. Just because I think it looked like a fairly obvious (labored) attempt doesn't change my view of the motivations behind it.

You were townie for reacting how you did to hiphop, and not getting drawn into silly arguments and attacking such an obvious target. Your view of hiphop made me think town, scum aren't likely to declare a 'buffoon' town in my opinion.

fits fairly well with the post taken in isolation. He thought hiphop was just town doing a cliche gambit and playing it out in a cliche way. Not suspicious at all, just not very well done. (hence, not liking it.)

However, when you add in some of the comments he made regarding that post earlier in the day... (ISO 2, assuming I'm right about what this abbreviation means):

Do I find you scummy? I said in my post why

I'm suspicious

of your game so far:

Well now, this is certainly a different interpretation. Note the bolded portion.


Now, read this:

Seriously? He's asking me why I find him scummy, when I have never said that I find him scummy.

How about you show me where, ever, I've said that I found hiphop scummy. Scummy, not 'suspicious'. I'll tell you when I find someone scummy.

Ahhh, that explains the discrepancy. Obviously Sando didn't mean scummy, he just meant suspicious. So there's absolutely no disconnect between Sando saying in Iso 2 that he finds him suspicious and then on this page that:

I didn't like his vote on almaster, it made his buffoon play look less like drawing out scum, and more like jumping on someone who fell into his 'trap'.

So now it's just that he didn't like it. We've gone from implying scum to saying 'suspicious, not scummy' to merely thinking it was a poor move with townie motivations.

Ehh, what the hell. I was trying to be all clever and sound superior while showing how Sando is backpedaling like crazy, but It's probably just going to confuse everyone. Just go read his ISO 1, 2 and then 15.


Sando, what exactly is the difference between suspicious and scummy? Is it just a semantics ploy to try and make your newest interpretation a little more believable?


Everyone else, I think I'm going to listen to hiphop and give spyrex a chance to find his powerhat 9000... But only because I can only vote one person at a time and I now have a much better target.

unvote, vote:Sando

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Do you still feel this way? Is he scummy for it?

1. Not anymore. After you explained why an early millar's claim is beneficial, my opinion on the claim changed for the better.

2. No as well. Even if I still felt the same way, all I would say that it was anti-town, because it puts you at a bigger risk for being killed. I do think it's pro-town now, thought.

What exactly do you agree with on the case on Spyrex?

1. His vote on llamaeatataco seems like bandwagoning and OMGUS to me. Maybe not clear cut, but as llamaeatataco said, his attempt to hide it was hideous.

2. Was dodging questions until you had to ask the questions to SpyreX again. Sando asked SpyreX a few questions in #103. SpyreX ended up not answering the question in his next post (#104).

[Hayker]

Vote count

Llamaeatataco 2-(AlmasterGM, SpyreX)

nopointinactingup 1-(charter)

Super Smash Bros. Fan 1-(crypto)

AlmasterGM 1-(hiphop)

Sando 1-(podium123456)

SpyreX 4-(Sando, llamaeatataco, Wickedestjr, Super Smash Bros. Fan)

Not Voting 1-(nopointinactingup)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch

[nopointinactingup]

@Hiphop: I'm a town miller is what's said in my role PM. But it describes me as, like podium said, a big question mark because I am guilty in both cop investigation and by lynch? So whether I'm dead or alive, you guys can't know my alignment till game ends

Right now I don't think we should have a Spyrex lynch. I thought Spyrex's behavior was not very scummy in comparision with Sando's or SSBF's. I suspect SSBF now because of his constant piggybacking and especially his post following Wickedestjr weak case on Spyrex. His play certainly resembles scumplay.

Vote:SSBF

[crypto]

This is extremely sexy.

[SpyreX]

1. His vote on llamaeatataco seems like bandwagoning and OMGUS to me. Maybe not clear cut, but as llamaeatataco said, his attempt to hide it was hideous.

2. Was dodging questions until you had to ask the questions to SpyreX again. Sando asked SpyreX a few questions in #103. SpyreX ended up not answering the question in his next post (#104).

Woooo

Bandwagoning AND OMGUS? Thats awesome. Totally space dreams but awesome nonetheless.

What questions is it I'm avoiding?

[crypto]

Please let's just hold hands and lynch SSBF.

[Sando]

Llama, who do you not think at this stage is town? In effect, who are you not prepared to say is town at this juncture? I'm willing to bet it's a long list, as would all of towns, and the reason for that is simple, you still suspect them. Actually, you don't need to answer that, just think about it.

I'm suspicious of anyone who I don't feel is town, do you not agree with this?

SSBF, who exactly are you 'agreeing' with regarding the points on Spyrex? Your 2 points are in answer to being asked what parts of the case on Spyrex you agree with, but those points seem to be your own, not someone you agree with.