Star Wars Mafia (Game Over)

[Kdub]

Vote Count

d3x (4)

- bv310, danakillsu, Scott Brosius, Dragon Phoenix

wolframnhart (0)

-

ooba (0)

-

Kast (0)

-

Dragon Phoenix (4)

- Slicey, LynchMePls, d3x, Kthxbye

Slicey (0)

-

LynchMePls (0)

-

vezopiraka (0)

-

Scott Brosius (0)

-

danakillsu (0)

-

Kthxbye (0)

-

bv310 (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (4)

- wolframnhart, ooba, Kast, vezopiraka

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is July 4, ~ 8 pm PDT.

Due to the forum move, I have added 2 days to the deadline.

[danakillsu]

If anyone else joins the DP wagon, I will gladly switch. A DP lynch is way better than nothing. However, I still think d3x has more chance of being scum. Also, I will be V/LA the last Sunday of June through the first Friday of July. I think that's the 27th through the 2nd. So I will be back before the deadline hits.

[LimMePls]

"BTW, totally forgot to mention this earlier, but I have a pretty good reason to believe that Vezo is fakeclaiming." - you should share this info right now.

Agreed.

[Kthxbye]

Alright folks, here's what I've been thinking.

d3x claimed way early when he was at L-1. Assuming there are 3 scum/anti-town players left, they would have all claimed very recently. Discussion about d3x's claim being 'off' happened BEFORE the mass name claim. If I were scum, and d3x was indeed town, with all the debate surrounding d3x's claim, I sure as hell would claim a pilot or an officer of the republic. This would bring even more heat on the d3x claim. My suggestion for today would be to lynch DP. If he flips scum, then it lends some credit to my theory on this. If he flips what he claimed however, then I'd be all for a d3x lynch tomorrow. This is part WIFOM, I know, but it's a logical move for scum.

d3x: I'm very influential because I'm a powerful and highly respected politician. Because of this, I can call a Cease Fire (ie. Mass Roleblock) once in the game during the night phase. That's as close as I can get without quoting the role PM.

dana/LMP: Why do you need one other person to join the DP wagon before switching? Are you wanting to be the hammer? He'd be at L-1 if you both switched and then someone else could hammer. Is there a reason one of you would rather be the hammer than the person who puts him at L-2 and L-1? If so, what's the reason?

[Kthxbye]

My bad LMP. I forgot to read the quote in your post. Above question to dana only then.

[danakillsu]

Alright folks, here's what I've been thinking.

d3x claimed way early when he was at L-1. Assuming there are 3 scum/anti-town players left, they would have all claimed very recently. Discussion about d3x's claim being 'off' happened BEFORE the mass name claim. If I were scum, and d3x was indeed town, with all the debate surrounding d3x's claim, I sure as hell would claim a pilot or an officer of the republic. This would bring even more heat on the d3x claim. My suggestion for today would be to lynch DP. If he flips scum, then it lends some credit to my theory on this. If he flips what he claimed however, then I'd be all for a d3x lynch tomorrow. This is part WIFOM, I know, but it's a logical move for scum.

d3x: I'm very influential because I'm a powerful and highly respected politician. Because of this, I can call a Cease Fire (ie. Mass Roleblock) once in the game during the night phase. That's as close as I can get without quoting the role PM.

dana/LMP: Why do you need one other person to join the DP wagon before switching? Are you wanting to be the hammer? He'd be at L-1 if you both switched and then someone else could hammer. Is there a reason one of you would rather be the hammer than the person who puts him at L-2 and L-1? If so, what's the reason?

A) exactly. This is why I think DP could easily be scum. As I already said, he didn't have to use his fakeclaim and he definitely had some motivation not to.
B) I'm not sure what you're getting at. I don't care whether I put him at L-2, L-1, or hammer him. If more people want to lynch him, I'd be glad to help out. Not that we need to rush things, but I do think we have all the evidence we need for a lynch, and that we won't be getting much more today.

[Kthxbye]

Well, I guess I was getting at who do you think is MORE likely scum? d3x or DP. Decide that and leave or switch your vote. I'm not getting why you feel you need to wait for others to tip the scales one way or the other before you make this stance. If you think d3x is more likely scum, you should be convincing others that this is the case, not waiting for others to decide which way they are going to go. It's slightly scummy tbh.

FoS: dana

[d3x]

@dan- Why do you think we won't be getting 'much more' evidence for today? Are you assuming that Scum will largely shut up because the Lynches on the table {MisLynch in my case}? What about ooba's information on vezo? What about the players who have not even posting today yet {vezo's V/LA until the 17th, wolf}?

In fact, until we hear from ooba...

UnVote

[LimMePls]

Well, I guess I was getting at who do you think is MORE likely scum? d3x or DP. Decide that and leave or switch your vote. I'm not getting why you feel you need to wait for others to tip the scales one way or the other before you make this stance. If you think d3x is more likely scum, you should be convincing others that this is the case, not waiting for others to decide which way they are going to go. It's slightly scummy tbh.

FoS: dana

I agree. Coupled with his play yesterday, and now you see why I wanted to hear Kast's opinion on bv's investigate result. dana keeps seeming scummy to me, although Scott B has mentioned that he thinks dana always seems scummy. Thus I want a confirmed and smart pro-town player's read of the situation. I bought dana's claim at first, but something isn't adding up.

[ooba]

@dan- Why do you think we won't be getting 'much more' evidence for today? Are you assuming that Scum will largely shut up because the Lynches on the table {MisLynch in my case}? What about ooba's information on vezo? What about the players who have not even posting today yet {vezo's V/LA until the 17th, wolf}?

In fact, until we hear from ooba...

UnVote

Umm. It's actually Slicey's info on vezo.
But I'd rather you not lynch anyone until I have my say - I'll be wrapping my ISOs in about a day's time..

[d3x]

Meh. I got that from Lynch's MisQuote above.

[LimMePls]

Meh. I got that from Lynch's MisQuote above.

That's not a misquote, that is a direct quote of ooba. ooba wasn't clear on who the quote was from. Just sayin.

I'd also really like to hear from Kast before a lynch.

[d3x]

Whoever said it, I'd like the info to come out before we proceed to the Lynch.

[danakillsu]

Well, I guess I was getting at who do you think is MORE likely scum? d3x or DP. Decide that and leave or switch your vote. I'm not getting why you feel you need to wait for others to tip the scales one way or the other before you make this stance. If you think d3x is more likely scum, you should be convincing others that this is the case, not waiting for others to decide which way they are going to go. It's slightly scummy tbh.

FoS: dana

Wow. What a misrep. Seriously, all I'm saying is that I will lynch either d3x or DP, whichever one I CAN get lynched today. This is because I'm pretty darn sure they're both scum. I think d3x is more likely scum (I wonder if that's why I'm voting for him now) but will be happy to help lynch DP.

Well, I guess I was getting at who do you think is MORE likely scum? d3x or DP. Decide that and leave or switch your vote. I'm not getting why you feel you need to wait for others to tip the scales one way or the other before you make this stance. If you think d3x is more likely scum, you should be convincing others that this is the case, not waiting for others to decide which way they are going to go. It's slightly scummy tbh.

FoS: dana

I agree. Coupled with his play yesterday, and now you see why I wanted to hear Kast's opinion on bv's investigate result. dana keeps seeming scummy to me, although Scott B has mentioned that he thinks dana always seems scummy. Thus I want a confirmed and smart pro-town player's read of the situation. I bought dana's claim at first, but something isn't adding up.

What does this have to do with my claim? And I don't understand why you need someone else's opinion to establish your own. Isn't that what Kthxbye was just falsely accusing me of?

Hypocrisy=fos:Lynch

[danakillsu]

@dan- Why do you think we won't be getting 'much more' evidence for today? Are you assuming that Scum will largely shut up because the Lynches on the table {MisLynch in my case}? What about ooba's information on vezo? What about the players who have not even posting today yet {vezo's V/LA until the 17th, wolf}?

In fact, until we hear from ooba...

UnVote

It's just conjecture. It's my educated guess, based on the fact that we have squeezed past events dry. I think Slicey's info could possibly help, but probably won't. Just a guess, that's all. And I don't think wolf or vezo has ever really contributed much. And why do you even bother reiterating that you would be a MisLynch? It's not like that's going to change our minds.

[d3x]

A combination of subtle psycological reinforcement with a constant barrage of truthiness. Basically when I flip Wicket VT, I will hold you responsible and I can't tell you that until postgame. Thus when you read back over my posts, a little dagger will cut into you every time.

[LimMePls]

I think today's Lynch should be between myself, DP, and vezo. I'm putting myself out there because if I live through a few more Days, the practicality of me surviving into an EndGame scenario is really high. I think this would be

horribly

bad for the Town considering the amount of mistrust that's sitting out there on me atm. In fact, I might suggest that Scum are stalling my inevitable Lynch for this exact reason.

A combination of subtle psycological reinforcement with a constant barrage of truthiness. Basically when I flip Wicket VT, I will hold you responsible and I can't tell you that until postgame. Thus when you read back over my posts, a little dagger will cut into you every time.

These two statements are inconsistent. Either you think you should be a candidate for lynch today because you are being setup by scum for endgame, or you want us to feel bad if we lynch you and you flip VT. Why would you want us to feel "a little dagger" every time we read your posts, when you yourself say that maybe we should lynch you. I'm beginning to think you should be the lynch today over DP. You say so yourself that letting you live to endgame would be "horribly bad" for us.

What does this have to do with my claim? And I don't understand why you need someone else's opinion to establish your own. Isn't that what Kthxbye was just falsely accusing me of?

What it has to do with you claim is that I believed it, but ever since then you've been acting scummy, thus making me start to question it. I don't "need someone else's opinion to establish my own", I value another players opinion (specifically Kast) because they are confirmed town and they are smart. I stated my opinion earlier in this day that I'm not sure I trust bv's result on you. I want Kast's take specifically because he was suspicious of you and your claim for awhile. He was pretty sure you were the last Jabba scum, which means you wouldn't be a GF. So I'm wondering what he makes of the investigation result. I don't even understand your question about what Kthxbye was "falsely" accusing you of, could you please explain what you mean?

Hypocrisy=fos:Lynch

Please explain my "hypocrisy", cause I don't see it.

[LimMePls]

dana's hyper-defensiveness even after being investigated seems really scummy to me.

[d3x]

@Lynch

First- Let's not go around calling players Confirmed if they aren't. While I believe Kast is Town, he hasn't been Confirmed {unless I completely missed something}. He demonstrated an ability that he said he had. What guarantee is there that Scum or Other can't have that ability? Again, I believe Kast is Town, but he is not Confirmed. Hell, even the players that have been cleared through Sane investigations aren't Confirmed.

Second- There's no inconsistency there. I am saying that I'm a valid Lynch for today because I am. I'm a distraction largely due to the fact that I can't defend myself. The best case against me is between Kthx's gut and a Role that I have no control over. It doesn't help that when I was investigated, there was a Mass RB. I want the dagger felt because I've been completely truthful and there's nothing I can do to stop a Wagon on me due to bogus reasons. Also of note would be the smiley face, denoting a joke. Simmer down.

[danakillsu]

dana's hyper-defensiveness even after being investigated seems really scummy to me.

This is just wrong. It's so blatantly untrue. I have become "defensive" simply because I must defend myself. Why must I defend myself? BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE SAYING THE INVESTIGATION RESULT ISN'T ENOUGH. You're not letting me hide behind just an investigation result, but you still want me to try? That's patently ridiculous.
Also, you agreed with Kthxbye that I shouldn't be basing my vote on what other people think (which I'm really not), while waiting for Kast's opinion to make your decision on whom to vote for. You're the one who's really doing it, not me. Therefore I fos'ed you.

First- Let's not go around calling players Confirmed if they aren't. While I believe Kast is Town, he hasn't been Confirmed {unless I completely missed something}. He demonstrated an ability that he said he had. What guarantee is there that Scum or Other can't have that ability? Again, I believe Kast is Town, but he is not Confirmed. Hell, even the players that have been cleared through Sane investigations aren't Confirmed.

I quote this because it points out something very interesting. You call Kast confirmed just because he had a day-vig ability that he claimed to have. I agree that he is town, but that's not the point. I have an investigation result by a confirmed cop saying that I am a townie, but you're not buying it. Do you see the problem here? Lynch, I think you need to stop diverting the attention from the actual scum here to a truly confirmed townie, because what I see as possibly a town vs. town argument is not helping anything.

[Scott Brosius]

Alright folks, here's what I've been thinking.

d3x claimed way early when he was at L-1. Assuming there are 3 scum/anti-town players left, they would have all claimed very recently. Discussion about d3x's claim being 'off' happened BEFORE the mass name claim. If I were scum, and d3x was indeed town, with all the debate surrounding d3x's claim, I sure as hell would claim a pilot or an officer of the republic. This would bring even more heat on the d3x claim. My suggestion for today would be to lynch DP. If he flips scum, then it lends some credit to my theory on this. If he flips what he claimed however, then I'd be all for a d3x lynch tomorrow. This is part WIFOM, I know, but it's a logical move for scum.

This is not really part WIFOM, it's fully WIFOM. We most likely have a botched claim. Is it possible that some pilots/alliance fighters are fake claiming? Yes. But it is clear that the ewok does not fit in with the flavor of this game as at least most if not all of the VT/minor PR roles are going to be true. There aren't that many scum left that they could create this alliance pilot/fighter theme.

Tons of AtE in d3x's recent posts, much more than the last time he was at L-2 when he claimed. Not really sure what to make of it.

Let's see, I've been calling d3x town almost this entire game, and I really haven't seen him do anything scummy. His name claim seems a bit off. To me, that's not enough justification for a lynch, compared to DP and Vezo.

But what besides Vezo's claim is scummy? If it is just his claim, why are you for a vezo lynch yet not a d3x lynch? Also second ooba's request for your "knowledge" of his claim.

[LimMePls]

@dana Asking Kast for his opinion on the investigation results is not the same as being wishy washy about which of the two wagons you are going to be on based on who votes where. Once again, my opinion is already formed and I've put it out there, I'm simply asking another player what their take on the situation is. You say you'll vote on either one, once you see where others are voting. I'll even quote it so you can't claim I'm misrepping:

If more people want to lynch him, I'd be glad to help out.

That looks like blatant band wagonning. As Kthxbye pointed out, if you think one of them is scummier than the other, then vote that one. But saying you'll "help out" on another case you think isn't as solid seems scummy to me. The difference between that and me asking another player for their take on a position that I've already taken a firm stand on is pretty large.

As for Kast's towness, it isn't just that he has a confirmed ability, it is the totallity of his play all game plus his PR use that makes me call him confirmed. Apparently the players object to that, so fine, I won't call him confirmed, I'll call him "all but confirmed". You on the other hand have been scummy all game long. An investigation does not convince me you are town because of your play. We cannot dismiss the possibility that there is a scum PR that is messing with the investigation, and we have every reason to suspect another GF. Therefore, Kast's outstanding town play contrasted to your scummy play definitely weighs pretty heavy in my reads of the two of you. I also ask him the question because, as I've already pointed out, he was pretty sure you were scum, so I want to know how the investigation changes his opinion.

@d3x I still think there is an inconsistency. I don't get why you'd want us to "feel the dagger" if you admit you are a possible lynch, and you even say yourself that you surviving to end game would be horrible for us.

Tons of AtE in d3x's recent posts, much more than the last time he was at L-2 when he claimed. Not really sure what to make of it.

This was my point, it seemed like AtE to me, saying we'd be sorry if we lynched you, but you yourself said that you were a viable lynch candidate today. It seems inconsistent to me.

[Kthxbye]

...Is it possible that some pilots/alliance fighters are fake claiming?...

...uh no, it's not POSSIBLE...it's a FACT jack. We have 3 scum left and all claims are pilots and officers and an ewok in a pear tree. There are in FACT at least 2 officer/pilot claims that are fake. I'm saying I think due to part logic and part WIFOM that the chances are in favor of d3x's claim being true and the 3 scum have fake claimed pilot/officer vs 2 scum claimed officer/pilot and a scum claim ewok.

[ooba]

Regarding patterns of fake claims.
- Kdub's last game was Chronicles of Narnia Mafia
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=850
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/iNmhe77xA4dnT
None of the scum fake claims were related to each other. There was one major character fake claim (Edmund Pensive) and two minor character claims (Prof. Kirke and Tumnus).

Major:
Han Solo (Kast) ***
R2D2 (Wolf) ***
C-3PO (THC) ***
Luke Skywalker (bv) ***
Yoda (CMAR) ***

Lando - HP fake claim - Boba Fett
Chewwie - WS fake claim - Greedo
Obi wan - SoG fake claim - Darth Vader

Leia Organa (Kthxbye) ***

Pilots:
Wedge Antilles (DP) ***
Derek Kilvian (vezo)
Biggs Darklighter (dana) ***
Vanden Willard (TF)
Wes Janson (farside) ***
Jek Porkins (BlazeRb)

Officers:
Carlist Rieekan (Slicey)
Jan Dodonna (ooba)
Mon Mothma (LMP)
Admiral Akbar (Scott)
Crix Madine (TNM)

Others:
Wicket (d3x)

Unknown:
???? - RC fake claim - Jabba

- All three factions which were not town got a major fakeclaim like in the previous game.
- I would expect other fake claims to follow last game's pattern - not connected. So if one empire scum turns up in Pilots, I would concentrate in Officers for his partner.
- I am guessing symmetry of roles points to RC being an officer. (6 and 6) Therefore in case there is a last jabba scum, they should be in the pilots.

We know two facts:
- Scum have been given fakeclaims
- And based on Kdub's last game, he's taken care to make sure they are not connected and not probably auto-lynch

This is my biggest point for not lynching d3x today. Nearly done with my other post on who we should lynch.

[Slicey]

Goddamit Blaze, LVP forever. >_>

Hey dana, why doesn't DP need to claim, but everyone else who hasn't needs to? You couldn't have forgotten, you even said he was scummy. >_>

Okay, at least one of Scott and dana is town, which surprises the hell out of me.

I really think we should mass name claim. Hell, I'll start. My guy's name is Carlist Rieekan. He was Rebel commander in Hoth [/b](which is why I don't buy's vezo's claim, because I don't think there'd be two people involved in the Battle of Hoth in this game).[/b] Also, DP goes next.

Still think d3x is town, only disconcerting thing is the Ewok thing, wanna hear other name claims first.

Bolded on why I think vezo could be scum. Also applies to DP as well.

I'll try to go back and look for questions that were asked of me, the new forum is very weird and I don't like it. >_>