Newbie 965 (Game Over)

[DavidParker]

@AGar: If you were my scum partner, since scum are allowed to discuss at night, what would you tell me to claim regarding my detective check today? I mean it seems pretty obvious what the safe option to avoid suspicion is... But i'd like to hear what you would tell me to claim if you were my scum partner.

[Nobody Special]

For whatever reason, I was willing to believe DP and his RAGE!CLAIM yesterday. Now, not so much.

I think that DP, right now, is falling into one of two categories:

1) New to this site, frustrated cop and flailing; or
2) Brilliant scum, setting up the rage-claim thing to get us to buy into his towniness.

I'm leaning toward 2 at the moment. That being said, there is a case to be made for scum to have left DP alive and unblocked, just so he could dig himself deeper. (They're probably enjoying this far too much.) HOWEVER, there's also the case that there is a roleblocker (thus DP so focused on that) AND no doc or cop. Remember, scum (if there is a Roleblocker) is playing the same guessing game we as Town are (as far as setup goes).

I really need to look at a couple of particular things in iso; my understanding is that we will have that by Saturday or perhaps Sunday. Until then, there's not a lot I can comment on. (And I've tried the sorting by Author; it's klunky and irritating.) As we still have almost three weeks, I don't feel that waiting for the iso feature will hurt us any.

AGar. What to say about AGar? I like his analysis, but I could see that he and DP could be pulling some huge kind of gambit here. (I'm not saying it's likely, just possible.) That's something else I want to look into.

[DavidParker]

How/When (if at all) should I reveal the town player I investigated??

If I'm being lynched it seems kind of foolish, as the mafia will just target him. This is obviously, assuming I show up as the detective. And if I show up as the detective, it should be very obvious there's no roleblocker (As why wouldn't he have role blocked me?), meaning there is no doctor to protect this player who I clear as town-aligned.

[AGar]

@AGar: If you were my scum partner, since scum are allowed to discuss at night, what would you tell me to claim regarding my detective check today? I mean it seems pretty obvious what the safe option to avoid suspicion is... But i'd like to hear what you would tell me to claim if you were my scum partner.

Sorry, I don't usually deny answering questions, but I don't want to get into this line of thinking. I'm gonna refrain from answering this one.

WIFOM -

W

ine

I

n

F

ront

O

f

M

e - The wiki overcomplicates it and I'm trying to not over simplify it. It's a guessing game inside of a guessing game (mafia). It's the the concept that Scum commits action A, and Town thinks "Well, scum would never commit action A so foolishly. But maybe he wants me to think that. Or maybe he wants me to think that that's what he wants me to think" and it continues in an endless circle of guessing and second-guessing yourself.

The video does it the best justice (except for the end where it's just lolz).

WIFOM Video

[Beefster]

I'm gonna be gone most of next week. I need to be replaced.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 2.2:

DavidParker (2): silverbullet999, AGar
silverbullet999 (1): DavidParker

Not Voting (4): quadz08, Wraith, Beefster, Nobody Special

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Seeking replacement for Beefster.

[Wraith]

Okay, DP's latest posts are just screaming "Scum!" at me, and he's pushing some pretty convoluted logic/theorems/whatever to keep us from pinpointing his actual alignment. I think he's lying through his teeth.

Vote: DavidParker

[Nobody Special]

I just want to note that that's L-1.

I'd like an opportunity to re-read some things in iso before anyone hammers, please.

[AGar]

UNVOTE: DavidParker

Just to prevent an accidental hammer while NS re-reads. Want him dead, but with fair analysis options. Also, I'd like to see us hold off on a lynch until Beefster is replaced (that slot is cursed, I swear).

[DavidParker]

Ugh, wait, so someone wanna sum up the case on me? Kinda annoying not being able to read people in iso atm!

And, I have info you prob won't want to lynch me based on, although you can still lynch me, to prove you trust me, then go off my info.

[DavidParker]

Btw, you guys are all talking about hammering and what not, without thinking of the consequences. You will go into tomorrow in a lynch of lose situation. (assuming I'm town, so since it's my post I'm telling you I am). And you will have gotten very little from today.

Here is my case to defend myself and explain my actions:

1. I came in here all confident and acting like a jackass because that's what I do best. I knew I was new around here and didn't want to be just another newby in the game, I wanted to stamp my own hand on the game with my own mafia style whether it's the optimal/most efficient mafia strat, maybe not, but that's how I play.

2. Have I lied in this game? Hell yes, that's how I play, I lie as much when I'm town as I do when I'm mafia. If you don't believe me go back a few pages where I linked you to EVERY mafia game I've ever played. Countless of those games involve me lying (and pretty much all of them I'm town, except 1 or 2) I have nothing to hide, I posted those games there so if you want to see how I play as scum and as town you can see. So yes, I've lied in this game. If you want to uphold your "lynch all liars" policy go ahead. I've only lied with regard to aspects regarding this specific game to try help the town. I haven't lied about other stuff (I really do like coke more than pepsi).

3. My rage claim.. Was it genuine? Yeah... I was pissed off the game wasn't "playing into my hand" like I had hoped. I was about to be lynched a 5-6 pages into day 1 for my attitude alone. Two players admitted they would hammer me if they could. So I raged.. Once I realized people here wouldn't just foolishly hammer me (I'm new to this site, where I'm from, once a band wagon starts, it doesn't stop, that person gets lynched haha) I calmed down realizing the day was still young. If you don't believe me, go check those mafia games on forums.boredaussie.com, people get bandwagoned and lynched for no reason haha. You'll also notice many an interesting characters who may not always do what's in the town's best interests even when they are on town.

4. Am I the detective? I'm telling you I am. Obviously the majority here feel that's not true. It's still early into day 2 so I felt I could get the most information out of people by claiming that I checked someone who was revealed as town, seems this led to everyone thinking I'm scum. That may or may not be true. Until we are at a point where discussion has occurred in day 2 and I feel my information is entirely necessary I was choosing not to reveal it in it's entirety. Problem is right now, it's hard for me to differentiate between mafia urging a mislynch on the town's detective, and townies who genuinely think I'm scum and don't believe my detective claim, which is making it hard to scum-hunt. (Even harder since I can't read people in iso).


So now, onto you guys, putting last night's check aside:

@Quadz: A new town feel from you for pointing out Agar's possible association with me. Do you feel I should have revealed my entire check then and who it was on, even though AGaR asked for me just to reveal whether I got a check on townie/mafia/roleblocked but not say who? IF i confirmed a townie last night, do you think I should reveal him? If yes, at what point should I reveal him?

@ NS: You seem potential scum playing the "oh I don't want to hammer until I've reread everything" card! Okay, I don't really think that, but if you're scum that is what you've done. How do you think I should deal with the information I obtained last night? Is it worth revealing with all the suspicion on me? What if I found a scum last night? If I told you player X (say Wraith/SB was scum according to my last night's check) would you believe that?

@ Wraith: Why do you just seem to be the scummiest of all on the DP bandwagon? Okay, jokes aside (well it's not a joke, that's honestly how I sorta perceive it). 1) Would you hammer if right now if you could AND 2) If i'm lynched and show up as town, who would be your main suspects of the remaining 6? What likely scum pairings do you see?

@ Quadz: Same question, what possible scum pairings do you see as likely or just individuals who you would be fairly sure are scum if I'm lynched and revealed as town? Also, why did you only FoS me rather than vote for me?

@ SB: Would you have roleblocked me if you were scum last night? What makes me the most scummy today compared to other suspects such as wraith/quadz from yesterday? It seems quite possible the mafia chose not to roleblock me for the very purpose of turning me into a HUGE target today (as has happened)

@Beefster: Why must you leave us?

@Agar: Umm, seeing as you dodged my last question, I'll just give you the same as others. If I'm lynched and show up as town today, who would you see as likely scum for tomorrow when it is lynch or lose. Possible pairings? Final fun, but serious, question: Have you considered the possibility that I am neither scum nor the cop?

[silverbullet999]

Would you have roleblocked me if you were scum last night? What makes me the most scummy today compared to other suspects such as wraith/quadz from yesterday? It seems quite possible the mafia chose not to roleblock me for the very purpose of turning me into a HUGE target today (as has happened)

1. In my all of 2 games I haven't been scum. I think I would if I were, but I'd listen to my partner and see what they said.
2. Your hammer I didn't like at all. I wasn't very convinced of mallow being scum. I don't believe your cop claim much at all anymore. I would also not like at ALL if we ended up mislynching someone else (not you) and entering lylo with you as you are WAY to reckless for it in my eyes.
3. Why would mafia not roleblock you? Unless they couldn't... which is possible I think, but if they could, WHY would they let you try to get a read. That seems like such a bet, when they could have simply blocked you. You still would have been in the same predicament either way in my eyes (blocked or townie read). The only way it would have changed was if you had a scum read. Then I would have been either willing to lynch them or you. Either way one of you ends up as scum, less your just a vanilla townie.

[quadz08]

@Quadz: A new town feel from you for pointing out Agar's possible association with me. Do you feel I should have revealed my entire check then and who it was on, even though AGaR asked for me just to reveal whether I got a check on townie/mafia/roleblocked but not say who? IF i confirmed a townie last night, do you think I should reveal him? If yes, at what point should I reveal him?

Honestly, I don't think you should reveal your whole check. I do think what AGar said was a wise idea. Also, I would say that you reveal if somebody is townie if it looks like they're going to get lynched, or in twilight, after you're lynched.

@ Quadz: Same question, what possible scum pairings do you see as likely or just individuals who you would be fairly sure are scum if I'm lynched and revealed as town? Also, why did you only FoS me rather than vote for me?

I'd be looking mostly at AGar and beefster's replacement. Honestly, that's pretty much based on post count, though; I have a vaguely scummy reading on AGar, and I've got mostly nothing on beefster/whoever, unfortunate though it may be. And, as I said when I FoS'ed you, I would have voted you, had I tuned in earlier. However, I didn't want to risk an accidental hammer so quickly in the day.

[Nobody Special]

We now have the iso functionality.

Unfortunately, I got an entire truckload of work dumped on me earlier today, and I will be away from my computer most all day tomorrow, so I won't be able to post anything meaningful until at least Saturday morning (about 30 hours from now).

I trust you can all wait that long?

[Jeffcole1]

Thor665 replaces Beefster.

[silverbullet999]

THOR!!! ahahahahaha

[DavidParker]

FoS: NS

Avoiding my questions! Sure it's great you can't go through the thread with people in iso etc, but there's a tiny paragraph in my post with your name on it that could have easily been answered!

[Wraith]

@ Wraith: Why do you just seem to be the scummiest of all on the DP bandwagon? Okay, jokes aside (well it's not a joke, that's honestly how I sorta perceive it). 1) Would you hammer if right now if you could AND 2) If i'm lynched and show up as town, who would be your main suspects of the remaining 6? What likely scum pairings do you see?

1. I wouldn't hammer now because Thor hasn't said anything, and NS wants to post something big.
2. I'm not entirely sure at the moment, but quadz and maybe NS are up there.

[Thor665]

Greetings,

I just replaced in and have officially read the most recent five or so posts, I will gurantee you that there will be no more replacing of this slot for the rest of the game. I'm happy to see silverbullet and AGar both of whom I've played with before and enjoyed games with.

Apparently we're at a L-1 situation, since this is day 2 and Page 14 that suggests this game has been moving awfully fast if we're at a serious L-1. Are we near a deadline? If not I'd certainly support there not being a lynch at least until I can read up and offer some views. When I replace in I like to read from the beginning and make some giant walls o' text of my opinions on the "ongoing" game - this will hopefully help all of you get a read on my playstyle and opinions of what has gone before and will perhaps also help remind you of earlier actions you may have forgotten (not that I expect much of that in 14 pages). I should finish this read through sometime no later then tomorrow.

Also, as a word of warning I'll be very busy next week so (for me) there will probably be a lack of commentary (which translates to probably no more then one post a day or so). After that week I should return to my usual methods which will be high activity (certain) and hopefully highly functional scumhunting (not so certain).

I'll start my read now and will either finish it today or tomorrow.

Regards,
Thor.

[Thor665]

EBWOP - also, Nobody Special is here, so a call out to him so he doesn't feel I'm dissing him. Why haven't we lynched him yet though?

[AGar]

Btw, you guys are all talking about hammering and what not, without thinking of the consequences. You will go into tomorrow in a lynch of lose situation. (assuming I'm town, so since it's my post I'm telling you I am). And you will have gotten very little from today.

Here is my case to defend myself and explain my actions:

1. I came in here all confident and acting like a jackass because that's what I do best. I knew I was new around here and didn't want to be just another newby in the game, I wanted to stamp my own hand on the game with my own mafia style whether it's the optimal/most efficient mafia strat, maybe not, but that's how I play.

Ok, so you were confident and arrogant. I don't believe that anyone intends on lynching you for that.

2. Have I lied in this game? Hell yes, that's how I play, I lie as much when I'm town as I do when I'm mafia. If you don't believe me go back a few pages where I linked you to EVERY mafia game I've ever played. Countless of those games involve me lying (and pretty much all of them I'm town, except 1 or 2) I have nothing to hide, I posted those games there so if you want to see how I play as scum and as town you can see. So yes, I've lied in this game. If you want to uphold your "lynch all liars" policy go ahead. I've only lied with regard to aspects regarding this specific game to try help the town. I haven't lied about other stuff (I really do like coke more than pepsi).

I believe if you reference my first post where I answered NS's questions, I do support Lynch-All-Liars. I'd like to know specifically where you lied however (since you're likely to be lynched) and why you lied about things. If you're town, this only helps clear up the confusion.

3. My rage claim.. Was it genuine? Yeah... I was pissed off the game wasn't "playing into my hand" like I had hoped. I was about to be lynched a 5-6 pages into day 1 for my attitude alone. Two players admitted they would hammer me if they could. So I raged.. Once I realized people here wouldn't just foolishly hammer me (I'm new to this site, where I'm from, once a band wagon starts, it doesn't stop, that person gets lynched haha) I calmed down realizing the day was still young. If you don't believe me, go check those mafia games on forums.boredaussie.com, people get bandwagoned and lynched for no reason haha. You'll also notice many an interesting characters who may not always do what's in the town's best interests even when they are on town.

AtE

4. Am I the detective? I'm telling you I am. Obviously the majority here feel that's not true. It's still early into day 2 so I felt I could get the most information out of people by claiming that I checked someone who was revealed as town, seems this led to everyone thinking I'm scum. That may or may not be true. Until we are at a point where discussion has occurred in day 2 and I feel my information is entirely necessary I was choosing not to reveal it in it's entirety. Problem is right now, it's hard for me to differentiate between mafia urging a mislynch on the town's detective, and townies who genuinely think I'm scum and don't believe my detective claim, which is making it hard to scum-hunt. (Even harder since I can't read people in iso).

This whole paragraph is "Well, I could be telling the truth, but I could be lying to you. Or I could be telling the truth! You'll just have to trust me."

@Agar: Umm, seeing as you dodged my last question, I'll just give you the same as others. If I'm lynched and show up as town today, who would you see as likely scum for tomorrow when it is lynch or lose. Possible pairings? Final fun, but serious, question: Have you considered the possibility that I am neither scum nor the cop?

All of my actions for D3 will be reliant on my actions for D2. I'd need to know who was on your wagon, who didn't vote. Who voted how quickly and with what intentions, and then obviously the NK flip also takes things into account. And yes, I have, but that's something I will instantaneously lead a policy lynch on if I find out you aren't the cop and claim to be just a townie.

My case against you is as follows:

1. Contradictory statements throughout Day 1; specifically your claims to Mallow being town, but then hammering him needlessly.
2. Over-aggressive behavior without producing results that made sense. Half of your claims seemed ridiculous and unbelievable yesterday.
3. Claiming cop, then surviving the night with a positive result. *
4. Stating openly that you have lied to the town.

* - I realize that you could be the cop, and this could be a scum gambit in the two goon, 1 cop setup; I've made the same gambit myself before as scum. But from the scum POV, the positive to that was that the town left the cop around long enough to generate D3 confusion as well. I am not prepared to let the same mistake happen. While I realize the potential implications of leading a lynch on an un-counter-claimed cop claim, I also have seen first-hand the devastating effects of the scenario that could cause major confusion tomorrow.

Here's my thought-process: DP could very well be the cop. But if we lynch a VT today, we go into LYLO tomorrow with still no clue if he's the cop, and then we have to decide on whether to buy the claim or not, causing more confusion in LYLO. At least with him gone, we avoid any potential LYLO confusion if he is the cop. But I still don't buy the claim and believe it was a desperate ploy to save his skin.

HI THOR!!

[AGar]

EBWOP:

All of my actions for D3 will be reliant on my actions for D2.

Should read

All of my actions for D3 will be reliant on

my actions for

the outcome of D2.

[DavidParker]

Well, I'm in a position where I know a lot more than other townies because of the "lies" and other actions of mine (ie: the cop thing), however, having noone trust me makes this information not all that useful. THe problem is I can either reveal my information so town are aided, but it helps the mafia just as much (imo what I know, it helps them more), so not revealing at all if I'm going to be lynched means you go into day 3 lynch or lose in a position where you can look at everything a fresh, and I haven't further helped the town, but haven't further helped the mafia.

Anyways,

To Everyone: Last night I was roleblocked. I lied about that thinking people would still believe I am the actual cop, and hoping to convince the mafia that maybe I am just a VanillaTownie, so I wouldn't be roleblocked during Night 2. However, with my imminent lynch it seems I have to reveal I was roleblocked. Also, by revealing I checked someone mafia may have slipped up during the day as that would have confused them since they believe I was roleblocked and they may have reacted differently. It seemed like a lie that would benefit the town, but if you believe I should be lynched for it, I won't stop you.

[quadz08]

... Wow, DP. That was an awfully quick turnaround. IF you're telling the truth, that's... quite the gamble, I think. But changing your story so quickly is just flashing all sorts of blinking lights and loud noises in my head, sooooo... I'm thinking you're not telling the truth.

Something like this overcomes my earlier caution about putting us at L-1. I think this just yells scum, honestly, and so:

VOTE: DavidParker

[quadz08]

Also: Hello, Thor! Welcome to the craziness. I look forward to your reactions!