Mini 988 - Small Town Mafia GAME OVER

[Exilon]

lurkers are lurking too much << never have I been in a game with so many unresponsive players <<

[jasonT1981]

Nacho has been activly posting today on MS

Cuetlachtli last post on MS was last sunday in this game
Last post by y DavidParker » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:02 pm (prod needed in 4 hours - missed him)
Antonios last post on MS was his last post here

[Zachrulez]

Both Nacho and Parker seem to be avoiding this game while posting in others.

Most of the rest of the bad activity delinquency is coming from players who are not posting anywhere else on site. (I went and did a search on those who hadn't posted in more than 3 days.)

We do need prods.

[lobstermania]

Prods have been sent to Antonio, Cuetlachtli, foobert and Nachomamma8.
Several more will most likely go out tomorrow.

Due to this lack of involvement,

I am setting a deadline of one week

, starting today. You have until Noon (PST) on Saturday, June 26th to lynch someone, or else the first player to receive the highest number of votes by the deadline will by lynched.

[Concerned]

For the record I do stuff on weekends, particularly Friday's and Saturdays so don't expect much activity from me on those days.
Sunday once my hangover wears off is usually my first weekend post.
Just posted this from my phone without actually reading anything.

[0x1de]

Lobster's judgement seems a bit harsh, or is that just me?

Anyway, we have to make a decision. I've not had much joy identifying scum, but there are several people that I think are town. Out of the potential targets today,

I'm only interested in lynching David, Butters, or Nacho.

Townies:

• Zach - Knows what he's talking about. Fairly well-balanced. Open to reason.
• Jason - Too quick to jump to conclusions. Sound logic. Zach's apprentice (is that good or bad?)
• Exilion - Rattled me at first. Consistent scum hunting. Minor doubts about his spread of votes.
• Concerned - Realist. Def not scummy for holding off the hammer. Bit quiet

Maybe townie, but not sure of:

• Smash - Fairly good reasoning. Heavily against Butter's lynch but didn't unvote. Repeatedly pointed out Consistent's potential scumminess.

Possible scum:

• David - Probably guilty of lurking and wagonning.

The rest I don't have enough to go on. (Nacho is a gut feel).

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF, could you please show some evidence of this?

Gladly, now that ISO is back up and running again. Now I'll provide evidence of this:
June, 10, 2010 (1:35 PM CST):

However I'm going to assume he's fairly inexperienced and I can't count how many times both town and scum have jumped on the newbie early on simply because he/she isn't careful enough about what they say.

I just feel like I've gone down this road all to often with players like butterfly, and I'm not convinced he has any more chance of being scum than newb town.

June, 12, 2010 (5:49 AM CST):

Change of opinion: If I fail to find a better lynch I'm perfectly happy to vote butterfly simply because he's the type of player who will need to die eventually anyway, and we might as well get it over with on day 1.

I was hoping he'd improve and offer some content, but if he's just going to ride the noob train until the end of the game then why bother keeping him around.

These quotes were less then fourty-eight hours of each other.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho has been activly posting today on MS

Sir, where are you getting your information? Show proof, hun.

But yeah...

Unvote, Vote: Concerned

, pretty much for this:

As it is I agree with Nacho to a certain extent about the VI thing, but I think Zach put it aptly in post 241, I wanna see what everyone has to say about the butterfly lynch and then I'll place my vote.

I don't like that you had to ask everyone else's opinion before you decided to place a vote. If you're a townie that thinks he's found scum, you really shouldn't be worried about everyone else's opinions, should you?

I understood why Butterfly is an easy wagon, I think the question you are supposed to be answering here is "why isn't Zach an easy target?"

That question is obvious to me, but okay... Zach isn't an easy target because 1) he isn't a VI, 2) he doesn't have any votes on him, 3) he's a veteran of the game. Now, why did I have to point this out to you? Also, what do you mean I'm misrepping something here?

=Butterfly is scummy. If you thought otherwise, why the heck would you answer like that? To confuse us?

What, I can't have null reads on VIs?

You haven't said either way and your response is awfully defensive. Basically you've completely side-stepped the question by posing your own rhetorical one. What I want to know is: what is your opinion of Butterfly and, more importantly, why do you think that?

Butterfly is a null read. Why? Because he hasn't been on the site very long, because his logic doesn't make that much sense to me.

If he was town, he would never do this.

And what makes you think this?

By the way, Jason is town.

What makes you say this? Is it because he shares your views on most things?

Hmm... if we're a week from deadline, I'm definitely willing to hammer Butterfly. He isn't adding anything to the game whatsoever, he's active enough where he's not going to get replaced, and he's claimed VT.

[jasonT1981]

Nacho has been activly posting today on MS

Sir, where are you getting your information? Show proof, hun.

.

Sure

Can't link to them as they are on going, but if everyone goes to your profile, and view posts of Nacho they will see you were activly posting in

Mini 989 - Disgaea Mafia Episode 2 (day 1)
Open 203: C/9 night 4
Riddle Me This! NY111 (Day 4)
NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Night 2)
Mini 965 - Infection Mafia (Day 3)
Werewolf: Wisborg Asylum: (Day 7)

on Friday/Saturday morning...All after your last post here on Sunday 13th (sat 12th in US) and before that one you just posted... a day and a bit before your post here, so yes... there is proof you were active, hun.

[DavidParker]

Hi yeah, I'm not denying being somewhat of a lurker while actually posting in other games (The newby game I'm in) that's because I'm actually up to date and actively involved, this game requires me to re-read the thread before I can have a useful post containing my thoughts, I will get to it tonight (between the italy/nz match - WOHOO NZ WINNING 1-0 ATM and the 3rd match of the night). I can't really post much of value until I've read through the thread properly, whereas the newbie game I'm in I have a good read on everyone and just have to respond to recent posts.

[DavidParker]

Alright, here are my thoughts on happenings:

Exilon Wagon - Well, it wasn't really founded on much, but it was a good starting point. Ox1de started the wagon, it was during RVS so a lot of the bandwagoning was people's sort of RBWS (Random band wagoning stage). With that said, it was semi-serious although later disappeared a bit. If he does flip scum, butterfly looking good to be paired with him as a latecomer on the bandwagoner despite the fact he supported him. Also, makes me think butterfly is a bit dodgy.

Foobert - early on his first post where he uses ox1de's own reasoning to vote for him seemed kinda suss....

Nacho - VERY early scum claim. The fact is, his post sends signals flaring, and while I'm still reading the thread, this scum claim may receive my vote. It's too easy to be cleared as town and ignored for a while by doing a "joke" scum claim while sarcastically mentioning a bunch of scum things you will do. I don't like it. Why would a towny feel it necessarily to post that?

WAYYY TOO MUCH WIFOM going on in first few pages for my liking. Nacho and foobert to blame mostly....

Jason makes some funny reactions to posts, ie: attacks someone who makes a joke about a 3rd party for having extra info about the presence of a third party.

Then... THe Butterfly Wagon:
This wagon is actually quite justified.. STarts because he does a weak justification when bandwagoning an exilon vote then backs down saying "i could be wrong etc"

Anyways, at this poitn i got lazy, watching a bunch of peple lol @ butterfly's stupidity wasn't very enjoyable.

The main point of interest:

Zach vs Nacho - nacho attacks zach for pushing a lynch on an "easy" target, without even presenting his case. Zach presents a case against nacho and there we go. Fact is butterfly has been scummmy beyond all reason. With that said, I think you should have looked for other reasons to vote for zach as they were there if you wanted to pressure him.

Finally what exactly is a VI? From this game I can basically tell but a clarification would be nice.

At this point I think nacho is fighting a losing battle, a butterfly lynch seems almost necessary to me. He's done everything scummy and beyond scummy, sure not much of it makes sense and has to be explained by newbness, but to me he comes off more as a newb scum than a newb townie.

So, I'm not going to change my vote from butterfly ;/

[Exilon]

VI = Village Idiot, from what I know =)

[Nachomamma8]

@David, what makes scum claims (especially those in the RVS such huge scumtells to you? Do you agree with Zach's psychology point?

[quote=David]Why would a towny feel it necessarily to post that?[/qhote]
To promote discussion, to garner reactions, to do something different...

[quote=David]Zach vs Nacho - nacho attacks zach for pushing a lynch on an "easy" target, without even presenting his case. Zach presents a case against nacho and there we go. Fact is butterfly has been scummmy beyond all reason. With that said, I think you should have looked for other reasons to vote for zach as they were there if you wanted to pressure him.[/quote]
Do you disagree that ButterflyTown would be an easy target for scum to lynch? What about Zach's case on me do you agree with, iif any ? Why didn't you agree with my reasons?

[quote=David]but to me he comes off more as a newb scum than a newb townie. [/quote]
Why? What things has The Butterfly done here that you don't believe he would do as town?

[jasonT1981]

Nacho, any reason why you ask me to provide proof asking where I got my info... then completly ignore it without comment when I provide proof?

[Nachomamma8]

What kind of comment were you expecting? I just wanted to make sure you weren't pulling anything out of your ass.

[Zachrulez]

I'm still not liking how concerned seemed to be avoiding a hammer on Butterfly, and then was totally willing to throw his vote on him once he was taken off lynch -1.

I would be fine with a concerned, butterfly, davidparker, or nacho lynch. (Less so on a Nacho lynch though.)

I'm willing to hammer The Butterfly before the deadline becomes an issue. (Around a few days before.) Though personally, I'd like to see a lynch wagon form on either davidparker or Concerned a little more though.

[jasonT1981]

What kind of comment were you expecting? I just wanted to make sure you weren't pulling anything out of your ass.

Well, you would have already known I would not have been pulling it out of my ass

[DavidParker]

@nacho: Oh, I fully agree butterfly is an easy target if he is town. But the thing with those super easy targets, is if you have to take them somtimes. Almost as a policy lynch, because not lynching them is more dangerous than lynching them. I didn't actually see Zach's case on you. Your case on Zach was just focused around him band wagoning an easy target, I think it was a bit rash this early to bandwagon an easy target, we should be pressuring other people (ie myself/concerned) but when it comes down to it, unless we find a scum somehow, a butterfly lynch is the best thing for town as far as I can tell from his actions.

With regard to butterfly being more newb scum. Well, intially the scum claim, and then covering it up saying it was his brother. If it was his brother, I see it more likely his brother was telling the truth to "screw him over". If he's lying, well then it only really makes sense he may be scum... Else he woulda just played it as a joke/discussion starter like you. Following that, just his immature post style and "frantic" defence gave me a scummier vibe than a town one, regardless of his lack of grasp of the English language.

[Cuetlachtli]

Hey I am still here and I still think Butterfly is scum.

And if Butterfly does flip scum I think we should review DavidParker, Nacho, and Concerned first thing tomorrow.

[Cuetlachtli]

Case against DavidParker:

Please read his ISO and note how wish washy and contradictory he is concerning his opinions of Exilon and Butterfly.

THEN

Read pages 4-6 and 8-9 for context. (Themes: Chainsaw defense¹, buss, wish washyness) Also note that pages 4-9 occur during a three day span--Thurs - Fri.

---

Which brings me to my brand new theory:

There are 3 scum and their names are Butterfly, DavidParker, and Oxide.

Scum power roles:

Butterfly = newb scum
DavidParker = newb scum
Oxide = newb scum

So we are basically facing a newb scum team!

Case klosed.

---

_{1. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Version.29}

[Cuetlachtli]

Also, DavidParker and Oxide's recent publicized town reads of Zach and Jason look like good ole' fashion scum butt kissing. I interpret these proclamations as a scum-town buddy attempt with the town's two most aggressive players.

[Zachrulez]

^ Good posting. Cuet is town.

[Zachrulez]

In particular I agree that Parker is scum.

[DavidParker]

At what point did I post that I have a town read from zach and jason? If anything my gut is telling me Jason is scum.

Also, I've been voting for butterfly for a while when there's been plenty of other bandwagons started that I could have easily clinged onto, sure you could present some load of WIFOM saying oh but you did that to distance yourself from butterfly, but fact is I think he is scum and want him gone. I would gladly hammer him if it was nearing the very end of the deadline, and it was up to me. If I had to choose anyone, I would choose him.

[DavidParker]

ANd Cuet, as your "noob scum team" it seems kind of "unnoobish" of us to all be posting against each other. Well both ox1de and I have said we would gladly lynch butterfly, while ox1de has said he would gladly lynch me. Sure, this isn't really a case for my defence but just a point I think you should note if you haven't.

Finally, I'm not denying being guilty of lurking and to a small extend bandwagoning (I did read up the cases, and my "bandwagon" on butterfly, i've explained fully why I think he is scum and not town), my explanation for the lurking was falling 5-6 pages behind and struggling to catch up with my busy schedule, while my other game I was up to date and it was moving at a tempo with me so I could constantly post. Now that I am more up to date here (And I've been lynched in my other game), It wil be far easier to be active here.

Final question: @Cuet: What is your case against ox1de?