Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[SaintKerrigan]

If you are scum, you clearly thought this play is the kind of thing you could justify doing as a town PR - and that explains your odd justifications to do with Andrius's alignment. Rolefishing when it looks plausibly townie is a good thing for scum to do, and I'm guessing that's what you thought here.

This is a sign that you're tunneled on me, Fish. This entire supposition of yours is WIFOM.

I've thought pretty hard about why you'd do what you did as town. I will do so again - perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but I can't see any way in which you had any information about Andrius's alignment.

Here's a hint: think outside the box.

I think it's extraordinary that most of the town seem unconcerned with SK's blatant outing of a PR with no reason to do so.

Y'know, I have said similar things as scum, when someone (town) did something that I thought was incredibly lynch-worthy, but when I tried to sell the case the rest of the town was like "meh". It's a sign of scum frustration.

FoS: Fishythefish

Oh, and I don't like this from SK:

I agree that the cop should claim his result and then sell. *waits for people to jump on him again*

This draws a totally false link between this statement and his play early today.

Here you demonstrate a complete fail at looking at things from someone else's point of view and continue to exhibit signs of tunneling.

In other news, SPS dislikes Spyrex calling my bandwagon lame. (This reason shall be used to explain his FoS until such time as he puts forth a better explanation.)

[Fishythefish]

Please explain how my argument is WIFOM. The only thing in this which approaches WIFOM is you saying that you wouldn't have done something as scum because you would be suspected for it. I simply said why I think your play is likely from scumSK.

Y'know, I have said similar things as scum, when someone (town) did something that I thought was incredibly lynch-worthy, but when I tried to sell the case the rest of the town was like "meh". It's a sign of scum frustration.

Here, you've done something I think is very scummy, and the rest of the town is like "meh". My post is born of town frustration.

How is my recent point a failure to look at things from your POV? What you've said there is that people are likely to jump on you for what is pretty clearly a bad reason. Implicitly, you are linking that to the other reason people are jumping on you, and so taking a totally unjustified dig at the case against you. It's effectively strawmanning the case against you into an argument that hasn't been made.

Is there any reason you think my point is tunneling other than that it's a point against you?

[SaintKerrigan]

Please explain how my argument is WIFOM. The only thing in this which approaches WIFOM is you saying that you wouldn't have done something as scum because you would be suspected for it. I simply said why I think your play is likely from scumSK.

Because your entire response to my claim that "My behavior is suicidal for scum" is "Well, clearly you-scum thought that you could justify it as a town power role" and "You thought you'd look plausibly townie while rolefishing." At least I backed up my statement by showing why it was suicidal for scum to do what I'm doing. You did no such thing. It's purely hypothetical. Thus, WIFOM.

Incidentally, where are you getting the idea that I was insinuating being a power role?

Here, you've done something I think is very scummy, and the rest of the town is like "meh". My post is born of town frustration.

I would be more sympathetic with this point of view, but I happen to know that I'm town (heard it from a reliable source). Thus, I also need to keep the scum frustration element in mind.

How is my recent point a failure to look at things from your POV? What you've said there is that people are likely to jump on you for what is pretty clearly a bad reason. Implicitly, you are linking that to the other reason people are jumping on you, and so taking a totally unjustified dig at the case against you. It's effectively strawmanning the case against you into an argument that hasn't been made.

So you haven't noticed all the other times I've insulted people (mainly SPS) on my wagon? Incidentally, you're the only one (to my knowledge) that is actively giving me reasons to respond to. Everyone else on my wagon is like "lol scummy behavior votevote" without showing why what I'm doing is scum-oriented. Personally, I feel justified in deriding them for this stance.

Hence, you're failing to look at it from my PoV.

Is there any reason you think my point is tunneling other than that it's a point against you?

To clear up the accidental misrepresentation that I'm sure you didn't mean to commit, the fact that it is a point against me in general has nothing to do with why I called it tunneling. The fact that you're firing missiles at caterpillars, is. (In other words, your spinning things that aren't actually scummy into things that look scummy. Hence, tunneling.)

[Fishythefish]

You've insinuated having information on Andrius's role; I've been making the assumption that this makes you a PR. You haven't said anything to confirm that specifically.

I'll comment on the rest of your post soon. It needs some rereading of parts of the thread which I don't have time to do right now. I'm getting a feeling that I'm wrong about some of this argument, and need to reexamine things. Expect more in the next 24 hours.

[AlmasterGM]

This guessing game is so stupid, I'm not going to try and speculate on what you are thinking so I can then speculate on Andrius. Either its too hard to figure out and your "speculate" point is stupid, or its easy, I'm stupid, and the scum have already figured it out, meaning your "speculate" point is stupid.

P.S Did I mention it was STUPID?

[Zang]

The winner in the "doing nothing" race by a tiny margin is NS. Zang is actively not paying attention and that bothers me but, of the three, he's my iffy one.

Are you accusing me of active lurking? 
Or just not paying attention and if so, why is that scummy?

I do agree with your vote though.

I need to reread NS and Zang, oh wait I'm done because they've been lurking hard (I know I'm one to talk right). I'm not just ready to vote yet, I need to mull it over.

FoS: Zajnet

This is very hypocritical considering that I've made more posts than you.

I agree that the cop should claim his result and then sell. *waits for people to jump on him again*

I think this is a good idea.

Zang never does anything, there is nothing new here.

At least I try.

[SaintKerrigan]

This guessing game is so stupid, I'm not going to try and speculate on what you are thinking so I can then speculate on Andrius. Either its too hard to figure out and your "speculate" point is stupid, or its easy, I'm stupid, and the scum have already figured it out, meaning your "speculate" point is stupid.

P.S Did I mention it was STUPID?

Good.

Now would you mind telling me why what I was doing is scummy?

And what are your thoughts on people other than me?

[Andrius]

I take it we're not getting a Cop claim.
Unless its easjo, who's being replaced.

[Fishythefish]

Hypotheticals about why scumSK and townSK would have done something aren't WIFOM. Scumhunting is deciding whether actions are more likely to come from scum or town, and thinking about why scumSK would have done what you did is crucial to that. Here, I think the aspect of giving the town your extra information would make it seem easier to get away with as scum.

As for town/scum frustration, your alignment really has nothing to do with it. I could be frustrated scum or frustrated town attacking scum or town. You seem to think I'm frustrated scum, and haven't said anything that says why I'm that over frustrated town.

So you haven't noticed all the other times I've insulted people (mainly SPS) on my wagon? Incidentally, you're the only one (to my knowledge) that is actively giving me reasons to respond to. Everyone else on my wagon is like "lol scummy behavior votevote" without showing why what I'm doing is scum-oriented. Personally, I feel justified in deriding them for this stance.

Hence, you're failing to look at it from my PoV.

While I'm sure I noticed them at the time, your insults weren't in my mind when I made that post. Your post was clearly a dig at something; I read it as a rather horrible dig against my case (probably because that's what I was thinking about at the time). As a dig against the wagon against you in general, I'm much more comfortable about it.

OK. I'm happy with SK's responses to me. I still think that rolefish is scummy, and it will remain a point against SK for me unless and until it's explained, but I'm happy to move on. It is certainly true that SK's play would have been a risky one as scum.

##vote: Nobody Special

See an earlier post of mine for a couple of things in his play I've found scummy. With the lack of contribution, I think this is a fine lynch.

That's L-1. If NS has something to claim, he should do so now.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

In other news, SPS dislikes Spyrex calling my bandwagon lame. (This reason shall be used to explain his FoS until such time as he puts forth a better explanation.)

I do dislike it (obviously). That's a very weak reason to be suspicious of someone though, whereas my actual reason is only sort of weak.

ISOing NS gives me a slight town read on the dude.

[SaintKerrigan]

I do dislike it (obviously). That's a very weak reason to be suspicious of someone though, whereas my actual reason is only sort of weak.

So what was your actual reason for FoSing Spyrex, then?

ISOing NS gives me a slight town read on the dude.

This needs to be explained.

[Andrius]

I'm willing to hammer Nobody Special.

[zoraster]

Day 2 Vote Count

Nobody Special ( 5 ) Zang, SpyreX, Andrius, SaintKerrigan, Fishythefish,
SpyreX ( 0 )
Zang ( 0 )
SaintKerrigan ( 2 ) Steam-Powered Shovel, AlmasterGM,
Zajnet ( 0 )
easjo682 ( 0 )
Andrius ( 2 ) Zajnet, Nobody Special,
Fishythefish ( 0 )
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 0 )
AlmasterGM ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 1 ) easjo682
Total Votes ( 10 )
Deadline: June 25th at 23:00 EDT
With 10 total votes, 6 needed to lynch.

Still trying to find a replacement for easjo.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

So what was your actual reason for FoSing Spyrex, then?

If I felt like saying, I would've said so initially.

This needs to be explained.

Explanation: my gut says so.

[Nobody Special]

Unfortunately, I have Nothing Special to claim. Just a vanilla townie here, no powers to speak of.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unfortunately, I have Nothing Special to claim. Just a vanilla townie here, no powers to speak of.

All right, then.

##Vote: Nobody Special

@ SPS: Your attempts at imitating me are failing miserably. Please stop it.

Also, gut-check time.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

I don't imitate.

[Andrius]

Gut-check?

[Zajnet]

Unfortunately, I have Nothing Special to claim. Just a vanilla townie here, no powers to speak of.

Har har I see what you did thar.

So now that it's twilight, are you scum?

[Andrius]

What did he do?
I noticed he didn't defend himself though. :/

[Zang]

He was active lurking.

[Andrius]

Ah.
Here's to hoping he's scum.

[Nobody Special]

I am truly vanilla. Sorry to disappoint!

[zoraster]

This is a public service announcement:

If you haven't already and you want to, make sure you sign up in the /in-vitational here. You certainly don't have to sign up for the game I've offered to run (Murder in the Dark), but there are a lot of good players and mods that you should take a look at.

[SaintKerrigan]

So while you're still alive, NS, care to make a last-minute effort to derail your bandwagon?