Mini 964: Another Story - Over!

[Chevre]

Vanilla, though not as flashy

I want to choose Red_Star, but I'm not sure if we should wait for a reply/replacement. Opinions on this?

PE: I reread the game. That means I read everybody thoughts, and everybody had posted, so everyone had some sort of read.

[Chevre]

Plus I don't need to scumhunt when my town reads (you Pie, and Deerguy) will do it for me. I'll just piggy back off your reasoning for today until I get a guilty.

First point: EVERY TOWN MEMBER scumhunts.

Second point: If you really were a tracker, you'd be concerned about even living into tomorrow now that you've claimed, and because we have no certainty of a doctor, I have a feeling you are scum who isn't concerned about being killed.

Re-

Vote: Thief

[Azelf]

ZeroFang

replaces

MrSandman

, effective immediately.

I HAVE VOTECOUNT!

Chevre

- PaltryExcuse, Thief (

L-3

)

Thief

- Unsight, Chevre (

L-3

)

Vibebox

- Pie_is_good, yabbaguy (

L-3

)

Not voting

- Red Star, Vibebox, ZeroFang

[ZeroFang]

/confirm

I've only read half the game so far, but I'm going to read the rest tonight. I'll probably post my conclusions along with my vote.

[Unsight]

Thief - Tracker
Vibebox - Vanilla Townsfolk
yabbaguy - Vanilla Townsfolk
Chevre - Vanilla Townsfolk
Red Star -
ZeroFang -
PaltryExcuse -
Pie_is_good -
Unsight -

@Chevre - Would you elaborate on your second point? What do you feel Thief should be doing to "be concerned about evening living into tomorrow" that he isn't?

@yabbaguy - What do you think of the Chevre wagon PaltryExcuse and Thief are pushing? That is, do you agree/disagree with their reasons for voting Chevre?

UNVOTE: Thief

[ZeroFang]

*whew* that was a long read.

Of course my play is awful. I can't go getting night killed as a tracker now can I?

Just as an FYI, you can't go getting yourself lynched either. I really doubt the mafia will kill you because you're so suspicious, but right now you're in serious danger of being lynched. That's not good either. As a side note, you can stop playing awfully now that you've claimed. Feel free to actually contribute. Your lack of contribution after your claim (in which you apparently had to play badly) makes me suspect you even more.

Here's my analysis page 5 after Red Star's wall of text.

ARF = After Reading Fully

By this point I'm suspecting Empking heavily due to random votes, faulty logic, being very defensive, bandwagoning, and suggesting bandwagoning.
ARF: I'm actually quite surprised many people were so sure that he was pro town. I found his blind bandwagons quite anti-town.

I think Jag was just new and didn't understand what was going on. No real reason to suspect him as a couple players did.
ARF: While SSBF used faulty logic to defend himself (i.e. saying the previous person's actions are irrelevant), he was still fairly pro town. I'm disappointed that you guys lynched him when there were a couple obviously better choices (Thief, yabba, Vibe (at the time))

Thief lurked a bit and hardly posted anything useful.
ARF: I don't quite believe his claim because it's a small game and he tracked deer, a relatively unimportant player who nobody is paying attention to anyway. He could easily say deer was doing nothing.

VibeBox - I suspected him at first due to random voting and very aggressive play, but he cooled down post RV. I still suspect him a bit though. He was willing to hang sora (mr. sandman, now filled by me) solely based on inactivity. He also said he wanted pro town points, which I found odd.
ARF: His disappointment in the game and overall concern for the town leads me to believe his claim of vanilla townie.

yabbaguy - He seems like he's just a very aggressive player in general and so I think a lot of his aggression is just his play style. However, he did slip up and use quite a bit of false logic to try and lynch people, so I'm not sure what to think.
ARF: He was quick to try and hammer people with little evidence/reasoning, and seems to be over-enthusiastic about this game. The latter is just an observation.

Red Star posted some strikingly good conclusions at the end of page five, and continued that through page six. It's worth another look or two.
[/end of page five conclusions]

I think Chevre's "scum-like tendencies" are nothing more than bad play. I'm in another game with her. This is a cross-game phenomena.

More later, I'm quite tired.

[yabbaguy]

@yabbaguy - What do you think of the Chevre wagon PaltryExcuse and Thief are pushing? That is, do you agree/disagree with their reasons for voting Chevre?

Wagon pushing, to me, means contriving cases. Is that what you meant?

Thief is contriving, seeing as he called Chevre's L-1 vote rubbish, and that's it. It could be a bus (can't tell entirely), so it's null to Chevre and more scumminess to Thief.

PaltryExcuse has points I agree with more, in the fact that Chevre hadn't taken one single clear stance throughout her reread. It still doesn't make me very, very confident in her scumminess, so it's a weak scumread, but I think Paltry has Town motives nevertheless.

@ZeroFang: Quotes or nothing happened. How was SSBF pro-Town, considering he laid out every anti-Town theory in the book? How did I slip, considering I can't? What do YOU perceive as useless for Thief?

[PaltryExcuse]

@yabbaguy - What do you think of the Chevre wagon PaltryExcuse and Thief are pushing? That is, do you agree/disagree with their reasons for voting Chevre?

What do you think about it, Unsight?

MrSandman- blank read. I'd like to think he's pro-Town,

esp. with sorasgoof's flake-out

, but really, I haven't any idea

??? for the bolded part. What does sorasgoof's flake-out have to do with anything?

[PaltryExcuse]

I want to choose Red_Star, but I'm not sure if we should wait for a reply/replacement. Opinions on this?

I kinda feel like this game will stagnate until we get claims from everyone... so I want it to continue. I vote you choose someone else. You're number 3 scum read maybe?

[PaltryExcuse]

EBWOP:

I want to choose Red_Star, but I'm not sure if we should wait for a reply/replacement. Opinions on this?

I kinda feel like this game will stagnate until we get claims from everyone... so I want it to continue. I vote you choose someone else.

Your

number 3 scum read maybe?

Good god I'm ridiculously ashamed of myself.

[yabbaguy]

Flaking out is a speculative towntell because I'd imagine Town would be more liable to get bored and lose the motivation to post. But scum can flake out for any reason such as inactivity or busy lives, so that's why it's hardly accurate.

Indeed, it isn't terribly relevant.

[Chevre]

@Chevre - Would you elaborate on your second point? What do you feel Thief should be doing to "be concerned about evening living into tomorrow" that he isn't?

What I meant is that Thief wants us to wait until he gets a guilty result. We aren't entirely sure we have a doctor, so how would Thief know he would be alive to give us any guilty results he gets?

I will choose Unsight next to claim. This may not sound serious, but there something about how she put herself at the end of her claim chart that bugs me.

[Thief]

He could easily say deer was doing nothing.

How would it be easy? What if he was a Powerrole? (You're assuming my tracker claim is fake)

FoS: ZeroSand

Chevre is still earning my vote though. She's a good earner, I hate to see her go.

[Thief]

Yabba calling Soras' slot town is scummy as well, but this has already been pointed.

Chevre-Zero-Chevre

[Thief]

Yabba should be in there instead of double Chevre

[Pie_is_good]

Blargh.

Yabba is just wrong about flaking being a towntell. I'm not necessarily sure that that makes Yabba scummy. It just makes him wrong.

I get the feeling that ZeroSand is reading this game with 20/20 hindsight.

We are in desperate need of a replacement for RedStar; he was the correct next choice for claiming.

Speaking of which, does anyone else find it odd that Chevre chose Unsight over ZeroSand? ZeroSand seemed like the obvious choice to me after RedStar. Accordingly, sustained FoS: Chevre, and bigger FoS: ZeroSand if Chevre flips scum.

[ZeroFang]

It's Zero

Fang

, thank you very much. I also haven't hardly done anything in this thread yet, so I really don't understand why I'd be connected to Chevre (besides the fact that I'm in another game with her).

I've been avoiding posting here because I really want to do my research before I post anything, and I've been asked a couple questions. I'm digging through the thread to find the quotes I need, so I'll post later. How long depends on how long it takes. If it takes all night so be it

If any of the rest of you have questions I'll be glad to answer them. Do you all still want me to answer Red Star's questions or no?

[Chevre]

pie_is_good: I chose Unsight over ZeroFang because I knew ZeroFang hadn't read yet, and wanted to give him a chance to read the whole game.

[ZeroFang]

@ZeroFang: Quotes or nothing happened. How was SSBF pro-Town, considering he laid out every anti-Town theory in the book?

Here's how.

I find it quite suspicious that yabbaguy seemed so bent on calling me scum, yet to this day, he still hasn't really provided further argument. yabbaguy, if you think so much of me as a scum, then prove it. Right now, your case on me (Not refering to Jag Johan) is not very impressive.

While he believed Jag's previous actions and words had no bearing on him (it did), he also pointed out that you didn't really have a case against him. Voting without a case is scummy, and he believed you didn't have a case against him. You can agree or disagree with his reasoning, but this is a clear attempt at him trying to figure out if you were just trying to get him lynched or actually had a reason.

-I'm defensive because people are pushing crap cases. Like you.

I do find you slightly scummy, but it's not enough to push a full-blown case on.

Here he kind of blew off the fact that you were defending yourself (which cuts down on scum-hunting time) and said

I want to focus more on my bigger suspects.

See, if he had just said that you were slightly scummy, you could accuse him on being on the fence. He clearly shows how he's trying to rid the town of scum and he's not going to accuse you because he doesn't have enough evidence and he has bigger suspects. He was actively seeking scum out.

Bottom line: you cop out of scumhunting by going for a quantifiable statistic, activity/lurking, and apply that to most of your scumlist (exception: me, and my case is still ridiculous). If lurking is a scumtell, I've just caught 8 scum.

The reason why I focused relatively a lot on activity is because the game is so inactive that I want to get people posting. With the currently no deadline restriction. we should be taking advantage of it. Also, that big post wasn't made in just two minutes. I put forth genuine efforts toward that post, which required a reading of the thread and I did this all before replacing Jag Johan.

Oh and while lurking isn't really a scum tell, let me ask you a question.

Let's say that we were ten minutes toward the deadline. You had no suspect and nothing was done on that Day. However, you had your eye on a lurker who hasn't really posted much. Then that lurker got put at L-1. What would you rather do? Lynch the lurker or do a no lynch?

This shows clearly how he attempted to get people active and use our time effectively. The scum want you to waste time dilly dallying so you don't get any clear view of who's mafia. SSBF wanted us to use our time wisely and hunt scum instead of loping around, essentially waiting for the scum to kill us all off. The more we talk, the more text we have to work with, and the better our chances of outting scum will be.

So you see, he was quite clearly pro town. I don't see how he pulled every anti-town theory in the book (if you could elaborate on this, that would be great). If you still believe he did, than perhaps you should reconsider your anti-town theories because he was solid town. This is further confirmed by his death, in which he flipped town.

[ZeroFang]

He could easily say deer was doing nothing.

How would it be easy? What if he was a Powerrole? (You're assuming my tracker claim is fake)

I believe you also wanted me to claim a page or two ago, so here it is. I claim vanilla townie.

May 18 was the last time Deer posted in this thread.
Jun 12 was when you claimed tracker.
Deer was replaced just after you claimed.

At the time, you didn't know when Deer was going to be replaced. Also, on pure statistics, you could reasonably guess that whoever you pick might not actually have a power role. In other words, you had a pretty good chance of getting lucky, and even if you got unlucky, the person in question was highly inactive and might not be replaced for a while. That's why it was easy to say Deer wasn't doing anything. I could have done the same just with my knowledge as a townie.

Also to note, why would you track Deer of all people? It would make a lot more sense (if you're actually the tracker) to track someone who actually might do something. EVEN IF Deer/PE is a power role, he was inactive when the night phase approached, and was inactive during the day 2 phase before you claimed. It comes as no surprise to me that Deer did nothing because even if he had a role, he wouldn't have sent the mod a PM. He was inactive throughout the night.

Personally, I would have tracked yabba or VB. They've both been active throughout the game, and have both been unnecessarily aggressive at different points throughout the game.

[ZeroFang]

How did I slip, considering I can't?

I didn't mean you slipped up as in you slipped up and exposed yourself as mafia. I apologize if that's how it came across (I forget that the phrase "slip up" on these forums has the connotation of mafia). I meant you slipped up as in your logic slipped and you made a couple bad judgment calls. Specifically, I mean the accusation and lynching of SSBF/Jag. With Jag, he just didn't understand the game or English well. This was fairly obvious. Your usual scum hunting techniques are somewhat moot there because he had a grave misunderstanding of the game (not to

punny

or anything ).

With SSBF, he was pro-town and you were gung-ho on lynching him. I've already covered this, and if you disagree with my assessment then I invite you to address it.

I would say this could definitely be construed as scummy.

I'm going to change my assessment of VibeBox, actually. After reading over his posts again, I'd put Vibe at the same suspicion/scum level as yabba for exactly the same reasons I suspect yabba.

[ZeroFang]

What do YOU perceive as useless for Thief?

He hardly posted anything. The stuff he did post was short, and didn't say much. It seems like he mostly lurked. Here's a complete breakdown of his posts.

/confirm

Confirmed on the 30th

I wonder why Red Star chooses me over Elias. Mine is clearly the superior username and avatar.

Vote: Elias_the_thief

Random "silly" vote on the 4th (4 days later)

Unvote:
Vote: yabbaguy

I don't like his "huh" reaction to the pressure vote. I've had people pressure vote me when I'm town, and my response is generally, "that's useless since you label it as a pressure vote." Or something. "Huh" seems really unnatural and forced to me.

Again, 4 days later. He voted and justified it by saying he didn't like the sound of yabba's "Huh?".

That's all I had, now I have his latest post:

Big post by yabba (I think)

Frustrated at the attacks on him, and unsure of how to defend himself. Why don't you just focus on finding scum instead of focusing on your own defense yabba?

Yet again with four whole days without saying anything, then he tells yabba not to defend himself and to find scum instead. Ironic, considering how much he's done up to this point helping with said scum hunting (I must admit, this made me chuckle a bit).

Infamous and ironic "Focus on offense, not defense yabba!" post

You're advising him not to try to mount a defense? This posts feels like an attempt to further frustrate him, as opposed to actually argue against him.
I'll be going back over your posts now.

How's that ISO coming? Nice twist, I never told him not to mount a defense. I said he should focus on scumhunting and not

solely

on his own defense that he seems so worried about.

I also don't see what about my post was provocative enough to frustrate.

Oh, this time it was

three

days since his last post. He comes in with a slight clarification. Really nice contribution there (sarcasm alert).

Time to breathe life back into this game.

Unvote:
Vote: JagJohan

That's right, with shameless wagoning.

Eight days

, and all he does is change his vote to hop on a wagon.

I could do this for the other half of his posts. That's right. All he did this whole game was tell people to contribute, and bandwagon.

TL;DR? Just ISO him, and read the sentence above.

[ZeroFang]

This is in a separate post because I wanted to make it obvious to the mod.

VOTE: Thief

[yabbaguy]

Quickpost: deadline in 4 days.

What time?

Be back when USA/ALG concludes.

[Azelf]

Chevre

- PaltryExcuse, Thief (

L-3

)

Thief

- Chevre, ZeroFang (

L-3

)

Vibebox

- Pie_is_good, yabbaguy

(L-3

)

Not voting

- Jalyn, Vibebox, Unsight

As for the deadline, I'll end the day as soon as I check in on 10-28. If you can get any posts in before that point, I'll count it as part of the day.

Don't take any chances, though.

Finally, you might have noticed something a bit odd about the votecount. That's because

Jalyn

replaces

Red Star

, effective immediately.

And with that, we no longer need replacements. Huzzah!