Mini 989 - Disgaea Mafia Episode 2 (Game Over!)

[Iecerint]

@ Miss Kitten

What was the first strawman, so long as we're playing your game?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, I'm not whining. I'm pointing out it's anti town as fuck, especially when the noise ratio is high. Sometime in the future I will confirm or deny my high noise read on you all. If they are actually contentful, then all I can do is sigh at the pain in the ass way you choose to present your information.

Anyway, I may or may not have been misremembering Iec. If I called you out on a "first strawman", then it will be in my ISO. If I didn't, I misspoke.

[Jarti]

@Iece the flavour comment beforehand was separate from the comment towards you and was directed towards all flavour discussion. Don't like it. I attacked you for being wishy-washy in that post (the flavour part of that section was just a summary of how I read your post) . Instead of just saying you thought TBM was town you kept your options open with things such as "I could see..." "He's town unless...". Generally keeping any routes for lynching TBM in the future open. Didn't like it.

Iece dead yet? Foobert replaced yet?

[Iecerint]

Far be it from me to keep myself open to lynching a player on D1.

My conditional is not complex. TBM and DTM are scum together OR slight bastardry from dram OR both are town. The last option is most probable.

[dramonic]

Votecount 4: Deadline Approaches ya know?

Kise (2): DavidParker, Thebuttonmen
Iecerint (6): Nacho, DTM, UncertainKitten, Jarti, MoI, Kise
RBT (1): Kthxbye
Jarti (1): Iecerint
Kthxbye (1): RBT

Not Voting (1): Foobert

DTMaster prodded, Foobert replaced...

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is the 27th.

[Iecerint]

Ooh, L-1. This is nostalgic. I haven't been mislynched since my first game on the site, I don't think, over a year ago. Hit a few L-1s in the meantime, though.

Well, there was one game where I was a real-life Death Miller, but I don't count that one. <_<

I'll claim if someone not voting me wants me to.

[UncertainKitten]

^ Scum intent out the ass.

No, I haven't reread yet. Might do it tomorrow. But do I really need to when people are being obv scum?

[Iecerint]

More bullshit from Miss Kitten.

[DTMaster]

Sorry it's 1 AM here and I caught up in 1/3 games of mine. Will post when it's a decent hour. I might spew nonsense if I post now.

[Iecerint]

V/LA until late Sunday. I may manage a post tomorrow morning. Posting in all my games.

[UncertainKitten]

See, Iec calls it bullshit because he can't defend the fact he leaked a fuckton of scum intent.

It must be nice in Iec land, being able to completely nullify a valid argument by calling it bullshit. Man, I wish that actually worked when

I

was scum!

[Iecerint]

Turns out I'm not going to be out of town this weekend, after all. V/LA canceled. Posting in all games. Sorry for spam.

What I said is absolutely verifiable. Also, I would never have posted it as scum because it gives the impression that players who think I'm scum are unlikely to be mistaken. [/WIFOM]

Being transparent about claim policies is pro-town.

So, basically, forgive me if I don't take your unexplained "scum intent" tell very seriously.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, the great part is, your claim policy had nothing to do with why your post was scummy.

If you MUST know, the intent in your little nostalgia trip was a subtle attempt to dissuade the lynch on you. There were a few key words that made it sound like more scum dissuasion than town dissuasion.

That better, Iec-scum?

[Kthxbye]

I'm sorry for not posting yesterday. It seems my work schedule isn't the only thing that's keeping me away. If I don't get a chance to post at some point today I'll ask to be replaced as it isn't fair for the rest of you.

[DTMaster]

1. Jarti. No I'm pretty sure you said two posts above this one. Which translates to: "quoting fail". But I knew what you meant and commented on the quoted section.

2. Kise. I asked and I found out I only found out role names. Sorry I used the wrong choice of words, so technically I'm a Flavour Name Cop-type role, not a role cop.

Edit: I'll explain a little more in the questions addressed to me about my role read below.

3. Hindsight vision = better now. It's page 4 from that analysis here Volkner, but summary of the David Parker notes in my note pad. neutrals, v/la, http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... apour case, said he's pressuring but might have suspects,. I'd be only impressed about the David Parker comment, if it wasn't on your predecessor. Had you replaced in anyone else it'll look like you're looking beneath the surface at motivations. Since you are David Parker now, well, it's null.

4. Kise. Um. L-1ing who? and if someone speed lynched an L-1 vote, you do realize Volkner just finished talking about drawing out the scumminess. L-1 votes and lynch potential on the person are classic traps, and a good way to analyze people before, during, and after the bandwagon. You know, look for classic scum signs.

5. Sorry bud, when when VC analysis stops catching scum, I'm using it as a tool in conjuction with scum hunting. When DGB stops catching scum with that as well, then maybe I'd consider it. /offtopicness

6. You do realize that about halfway through the MoI on Ice cases, MoI did switch his vote from Kise to you. Ice.

7. Maybe it's me, but this case here reads as Ice earnestly trying. I mean he's sticking to his guns, explaining his cases.

8. I dislike Jarti now. Like really, really, really really dislike Jarti. Why haven't you posted your awesome case? How come you know Ice is being wagoned, but you didn't post your awesome reads? This to me reads as active lurking to the extreme. The only thing that bothers me is your time of absense matches with your other game. When I read you, it's like reading a guy who's coasting a long.

9. MoI here is the jist of my claim.

1. My actions work every night. Yes I am a

Night actioner

.
2. But wait DTM how does a night actioner gain a result on TBM during the day? It's because I start the day

auto targetted to someone and part of my roles gain insight to the role name

3. Holy wait, what does that mean DTM? It means that I can change my auto target to confirm role names MoI. Meaning: I'm technically not a role name cop, but I act like one. Specifically, I can only find the role names of adult (sized) people. But I can confirm if people are children (sized) I believe if I'm interpreting my role correct. I can see why flavourwise, and you'll understand why if I full claim.
4. DTM you are missing a question about why you outted yourself. Dude, it's because I am super awesome like that. Also any docs, pretend I'm macho. Don't protect me. Plz k thnks.
5. DTM WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE MACHO. Trust me. I'll full claim tomorrow if I make it. if I die tonight then it'll make sense upon my role flip. Also it'll make sense on why I chose to claim D1 and why I said I'm Macho like.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Instead of just saying you thought TBM was town you kept your options open with things such as "I could see..." "He's town unless...". Generally keeping any routes for lynching TBM in the future open. Didn't like it.

Having a Town read on someone shouldn’t be absolute if you yourself are Town. Only Mafia know for certain (with a caveot regarding SKs and traitors) that someone is Town. Additionally town reads are going to change over time as more information arrives. Attacking Iec for not ‘locking in’ a town read on TBM Day 1 is suspicious, IMO.

My thoughts on DTM’s claim regarding TBM’s role name –

TBM has confirmed his role is named “Adell’s Dad”. I think you can make a case for any possible combination of alignments. Note specifically I am ignoring SK or other Third Parties in this analysis. I guess it is possible that DTM could be some sort of lyncher but otherwise I wouldn’t expect the kind of power he’s professing (and to some degree has been confirmed) to be a Third party style role.

DTM as Town, TBM as either alignment

: If DTM is town the motivation for his release of this information is clear, as he originally stated – He thinks he can confirm a Town role Day 1. Obviously the more Town confirmed roles there are the better. Kise’s whole discussion regarding flavour and Adell having two ‘fathers’ does cast some doubt as to whether TBM can be confirmed completely.

DTM as Scum, TBM as Town

: This scenario would serve two theoretical purposes –
1. Buddying up to TBM to scum him up in the case of a DTM Mafia flip.
2. Attempting to use his name-flavor power to gain Town cred if TBM is confirmed as Town via flip.

DTM as Scum, TBM as Scum

: A rather outrageous ploy to ‘clear’ both, provided neither one flips or is investigated by a ‘real’ cop. Under this scenario DTM doesn't need to have a flavour name power at all but simply could work it out with TBM in the QT.

The DTM town scenarios seem more likely than either DTM Mafia scenario but I’m not going to rule them out. End result – the scenarios on their face have me leaning to DTM as Town when combined with the his content so far.

@MOD – I’ll be on my usual weekend V/LA from today at 4pm EDT until Monday morning. I will do my best to check the thread to see if any pressing issues emerge before deadline.

[Kthxbye]

Alright, for the first part of me getting back into the swing of this game, I decided to check my, as someone called it, obvious lurker hunt. I voted RBT due to being the biggest lurker, and FoS'ed Nacho for being really darn close to just as bad. Let's see what I found...

I'll start with Nacho: I ISO'ed and what I saw after I called him out for lurking was and explanation of why (busy, which is certainly something I can understand), and then at least an attempt to scumhunt. RBT has actually posted more in terms of numbers, but Nacho's posts are actually starting to take a stance and have explanations. I certainly would like to here more from him and don't think he's off the hook for lurking, but below is why I've chose to not concentrate on Nacho's lurking at this time.

RBT ISO
p1 and p2: Confirmation, sarcasm, and disagreement with speed lynching. These posts don't bother me much as it was early game.

p3: Here RBT get's called out for lurking and has an excuse of setting up his mini. Okay, I bought it. The second part is where the scumminess starts however. "Also, my current top scum candidate is not in the two listed. So I don't really have an answer for that right now. However, I am not a particular fan of foobert thus far, and so that is my current focus." Here is a complete contradiction full of scummy intent. Why does he keep his "top scum candidate" secret? Isn't it part of our job to hunt scum and post cases on our top scum candidate? Next, if he actually has a candidate, why is foobert (just someone he's not a fan of) become the current focus? Let's assume for a quick second that this post isn't just scum banter and move on with foobert being his "focus".

p4: Hmmm...he's concerned that foobert doesn't see anything scummy up to this point...AND THEN AGREES WITH THAT MENTALITY! Talk about not taking a stance. Reads to me like "well, if town goes after foobert, I said I was concerned so I can jump on, if not, I said I am with him and his mentality...will wait to see what town does".

Here is where I unvote Iece and go after our 2 biggest lurkers

p5: Here he claims misrep (doesn't explain this claim) and vote hop. uh...yeah, usually when you unvote someone and vote someone else, there is a vote hop. Misreps are a scum tell, but I don't see a misrep from me and he doesn't either I would assume or else he would have explained it and started a case on me. Don't know what's scummy about unvoting and voting someone else... Bascially, this post is the start of OMGUS (actually a scum tell).

Here I ask RBT "@RBT: How does your latest post differ in any way from the reason I voted for you in the first place? That's your 5th post and again, 0 content. How is my vote misrepping you when the reasons behind it are factual. Where is the content, in your opinion, in any of your posts? How are your posts moving us along in any way to finding scum? On the flip side, what do you think about Nacho so far in this game? As far as my vote is concerned, you are coming off scummier than Iece at the moment, hense the "votehop"."

p6: Here's the reply I get: "@KTB: Why don't you start by telling me how my posts have no content. Last time I checked, they did." Classic deflection post. This happens to be a scum-tell in my book.

Here I explain how they don't have content (read any scumhunting what-so-ever).

p7: Instead of addressing ANYTHING I have written or answering the questions in my post before his p6, he answers with more deflection. What? Seriously? (here's the "fervent lynch RBT speak) Why is nobody else seeing this scummy behavior. I'm guessing it's because the posts are so few and far between, you all have just forgotten about him. Also, in this gem of a post, we get "I'll scumhunt my way, you scumhunt yours. " I actually expected half expected him to start doing so.

I get super busy with fathers day and work here so I don't get a chance to follow up on this till now.

p8: Oh look, someone points out that RBT (along with foobert and I) haven't posted recently. We get a "I'm here" from RBT (shows active lurkering hardcore here) and suspicion of me while totally ignoring his "current focus". Can you OMGUS any harder RBT?

p9: TBM asks him to "join in a discussion and start sharing your opinions"...Here's RBT's response: "I have been. Who are you reading?" ......... Well RBT, if you look above, you actually have NOT been.

p11: Here's the OMGUS unvote and vote of me. No reasoning, no case, no nothing except a request for me to die. What exactly is your case again RBT?

p12: Deflection of sharing an opinion of Iece, who throughout has been the main band wagon going on, and a statement that I'm "obvscum" without a hint of reasoning.

SO, what I see here is:
-OMGUS
-Deflection of taking a stance on anything (besides me)
-Voting and suspicion of me without reason or explanation
-No cases on anyone
-Active Lurking so that nobody can gain a read on him

There's my case on why I am keeping my vote on RBT and why I think the rest of you should "vote-hop" and lynch the scummiest player in the game.

I'd like someone to give me the nut-shell case on Iece for when I come back and get a read through on the person everyone else seems to think is scummy. I'll be surprised if it's scummier than RBT though. I would like to say that although I unvoted him for the lurker hunt, I want to make it clear that at the time, I didn't unvote him for lack of suspicion but rather because I only have one vote and wanted to use it to out some lurking scum....which I feel I have accomplished.

[UncertainKitten]

I really hope I don't regret this, but, RBT is really a hard player to read because he is consistently scummy. Honestly? I've been ignoring him this entire game because he never adds anything of value (in my experience) and tends to confuse the issue. If things start going sour and we aren't catching scum, I'd probably revisit him. But, that's my reason, however poor, for not chasing RBT regardless of what he's done.

[Iecerint]

@ KTB, while I agree that RBT is scummy, he's sort of always that way. I'd advise you to read his is iso the first Disgaea game. He was confirmed masons with someone, got confirmed when his wagon was run up D1, then spent the rest of the game, well, being a scummy confirmed-town player.

(That said, RBT is a pretty minimally tragic mislynch. I think Jarti is a better lynch, though.)

Anyway, could be that someone here can differentiate town and scum RBT, but it isn't me.

[Iecerint]

@ Miss Kitten, please show me the sneaky key words that I MUST know.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll start with Nacho: I ISO'ed and what I saw after I called him out for lurking was and explanation of why (busy, which is certainly something I can understand), and then at least an attempt to scumhunt.

I’m going to ask you where you found scum-hunting in his posts. I just ISOed him. He has 9 total posts.

1 - Confirmation.
2 – RVS vote on UK
3 – Random comments about UK’s playstyle and a serious vote for Iec based on his Kise wagon fence-sitting.
4 – I’m busy.
5 – Attacks you for going after lurkers. Tells Iec that self-meta stinks (he’s right BTW) and that Iec was distancing himself from his prior attack on you.
6 – Having trouble getting into the game.
7 – Whine about walls
8 – Fluff exchange with Iec
9 – Asks a pointless question of Iec.

Of his 9 posts only number 5 (and in a stretch number 3) could even be vaguely considered scum-hunting. An when he does ask questions he doesn’t follow-up.
RBT isn’t a font of content but to say Nacho is any better is a reach.

[UncertainKitten]

@Iec: That's classified information. Maybe I'll tell you later. But I probably won't, since I like being able to find intent unfettered. I haven't figured out how to respond to people changing their speech patterns to not look scummy, and I'd rather not have to.

[Iecerint]

OK, so, I'll assume you were just making it up, then.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, if it's any condolence if you flip town I'll review my findings and probably expose my failed method, so as to improve it.

Too bad you're probably scum ^-^.

[TheButtonmen]

[Rampant Paranoia]
This continued back and forth between UK and Iec is starting to read like scum distancing. It's filling up the thread, seemingly isn't going anywhere, has no follow up and doesn't seem to branch out.
[/Rampant Paranoia]