Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[Zajnet]

Nice friggin' catch!

There's still no way to know that you (SaintK) aren't on the other scum team, but Meh.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP x2: A plan for us to consider:

If town wires someone they think is town a crapton of money, then this town person could by the Arson role and thereby eliminate the scum nightkill entirely. We might want to figure out if one of us is town enough that this strategy is viable, because it'd be uber powerful. Obviously whoever gets it is at the direction of the town; deviations should merit lynches.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOPx3 (sorry!): Crap, hit submit before I was ready.

Just heard from Zorro, and the bidding process does

not

stop if we lynch before the bidding deadlines are up. So scum can't quickhammer us to oblivion.

However, we STILL should not vote Andrius yet. There are things we need to discuss. If town gets the Arson Role, then Andrius can be saved for an Arson kill. (Roast flesh sounds rather scrumptious to me... ) Once we have some discussion on what to do,

then

we can lynch Andrius.

DO NOT VOTE ANDRIUS UNDER PAIN OF BEING CONSIDERED SCUM AND BECOMING PREY TO ANOTHER ONE OF MY WILD SCHEMES.

[SaintKerrigan]

Nice friggin' catch!

There's still no way to know that you (SaintK) aren't on the other scum team, but Meh.

I'd like to think a Spyrex voucher makes me a certified townie.

...wait, this is a cynical lot, isn't it? Oh well.

True, I could be on the other scum team. Guess I'll just have to say that I'm not and leave the rest for you guys to figure out.

[SaintKerrigan]

(I'm seriously sorry for the spamming, but I just realized something majorly important.)

Holy fuck...

Finally:

The Interest Rate has now been set to 15%!

I'm glad I payed off my debt during D2 xD

Anyways, so we're at 4 townies, 2 mafia A, 2 mafia B.

With the NK out of the way and the arsonist being so conditional, we're quite a ways away from lylo.

I'm glad I payed off my debt during D2 xD

I payed off my debt during D2.

Looks like is raining manna from heaven, folks. We just caught us another scum!

You see, three of the seven D1 abilities are now confirmed to have been in scum hands: NK, II, and Doc. DV was town. So the only abilities unaccounted for are: Pickpocket, Cop, and Bulletproof. What's the common factor among all of them? The debt accrued from buying one of those abilities cannot be paid off

by a townie

on D2 (except if the Pickpocket hit a fuckin' jackpot, which is probably what Zaj will have to claim, and he better hope he can back up his claim). Therefore, having his debt taken care of during Day 2 makes Zajnet 99.99999% scum. (The jackpot scenario being the only possible way he did this as town.)

Damn, how'd we get so lucky?

Hey Andrius, Zaj, mind telling us who your partners are?

Might as well try to take advantage of our current run of luck.

[SaintKerrigan]

Yet ANOTHER EBWOP (Jesus H. Christ):

SAME VOTING RULES FOR ANDRIUS ALSO APPLIES TO ZAJNET. JUST IN CASE IT WASN'T OBVIOUS.

[Zajnet]

What about paying off debt after buying a D2 ability?

Or what if I didn't buy an ability, but borrowed money and bid on ones. You know, like the NK that I bid $146 towards.

[nopointinactingup]

First thing first, does anyone have counterclaim to SK's role ( as being Mugger, Investigation Immune, Doc )? If someone claims then SK maybe isn't telling the truth. But if no one claims, Andrius is definitely scum.
@Zaj: What was your ability that you had to "pay your debt afterward" to obtain?

[SaintKerrigan]

What about paying off debt after buying a D2 ability?

Of the two abilities that were sold higher than a townie could afford without borrowing, I owned one, and the other was too expensive for you to have paid off the entire debt

on the same day that you had bought it

.

Or what if I didn't buy an ability, but borrowed money and bid on ones. You know, like the NK that I bid $146 towards.

Since I assume this means you aren't claiming Pickpocket, we have a way to check on that.

The Pickpocket needs to claim. Once the Pickpocket claims, Zajnet tells us

exactly

how much he borrowed each day, when he paid it back, what he bid on with it, whether he got the item or not, and finally, how much money he has now. Tonight, the Pickpocket pickpockets Zaj, and tomorrow morning he tells us exactly how much money he got from Zajnet that night. The Pickpocket gets doc protection (if the doc is town; if I still have it I know I'll protect the Pickpocket). If the Pickpocket's number is different in any way from the total calculated from Zaj's report, Zaj gets lynched. If Zaj is town, the Pickpocket is lynched the next day.

If the Pickpocket doesn't claim, it's a safe bet that the role is scum, and we'll have to lynch Zaj the old-fashioned way.

It's really that simple.

[Zajnet]

What about paying off debt after buying a D2 ability?

Of the two abilities that were sold higher than a townie could afford without borrowing, I owned one, and the other was too expensive for you to have paid off the entire debt

on the same day that you had bought it

.

You're neglecting to realize that I bid, say, $146 on a D2 item, but then won it for, say, $101.

Yes I just told you what ability I have.

Yes, I set the interest rate at 15%.

[Zajnet]

EBWODP: I bid $166 on that D2 item, not $146.

[SaintKerrigan]

You're neglecting to realize that I bid, say, $146 on a D2 item, but then won it for, say, $101.

And I just told you of a way we could check on that. In the unmentioned part of the post you quoted.

Incidentally, what was the point of remarking that you were glad you paid off your debt before the interest was raised if you already knew the interest was being raised in the first place?

Also, weren't you the one that said $146 was close to the maximum limit a townie could bid and safely pay off the debt later? Why bump it up to 166? Wouldn't that put you over the safe limit?

[Andrius]

Hi nopointinactingup! Its been awhile since 930.

##Vote: SaintKerrigan

I did have the Doctor ability, up until I was mugged. I did not submit a N1 action because I had no idea who the scum would target. And with two shots I didn't want to waste either of them, thinking- of course- that another NightKill ability would hit the market D3. I did actually submit a N2 protection, but it either arrived after deadline or zoraster missed it, sadly.

I did not have the Investigation Immunity, or else I would have claimed it. SK is obviously trying to pin it on me, with an obvious excuse under seemingly-true pretenses. Yes, I was mugged. This is the perfect opportunity for the scum_mugger to lead the town into another mislynch. Either SK has the Investigation Immunity or his partner does. I did not have that role at all. SK pinned this on me in the hopes that he'd be able to lead you all in yet another mislynch.
Don't let this scum lead you in another mislynch. SK's play is no shining light; and this scum gambit only makes it more apparent: that SK is scum.

I will reread and post a more thorough case against SaintKerrigan later this weekend. At the moment I am very tired and emotionally drained.

[Fishythefish]

There is no way that SK and Andrius can both be telling the truth, which is nice. Nice easy one here; we lynch Andrius today and SK tomorrow in the very unlikely event that Andrius flips town. I agree with SK that it is better to wait until after the auction to lynch Andrius.

[Fishythefish]

Hmmm. Directing the arsonist would make the firefighter very powerful indeed; I'd only be up for directing the arsonist if we also had control over the firefighter.

[nopointinactingup]

Lynch Andrius, if he turns scum we got ourselves our town a big fish, if he turns town, lynch SK and we'd have a scum down in either day.

[Steam-Powered Shovel]

Yarr, our move here is pretty obvious.

Also, weren't you the one that said $146 was close to the maximum limit a townie could bid and safely pay off the debt later? Why bump it up to 166? Wouldn't that put you over the safe limit?

Townies get $20 each day, not $30 like you do.

I buy Zajnet's story.

[zoraster]

Day 2 Vote Count

Zang ( 0 )
SaintKerrigan ( 1 ) Andrius,
Zajnet ( 0 )
nopointinactingup ( 0 )
Andrius ( 0 )
Fishythefish ( 0 )
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 0 )
AlmasterGM ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 8 ) nopointinactingup Zang, SaintKerrigan, Fishythefish, AlmasterGM, Zajnet, Steam-Powered Shovel,
Total Votes ( 9 )
Deadline: July 9th at 11:00 EDT
With 8 total votes, 5 needed to lynch.

Marketplace

To place a bid, PM Zoraster with the highest price you would be willing to pay.

1 Arsonist

- You have a whole bunch of highly flamable liquid, but only one match. Every night, you may douse one person in kerosene. Once during the day, you may PM the mod with the word

ignite

. This will cause every player who you have doused to go up in flames instantly, killing them. Beware the firefighter though! Doctors also protect against someone going up in flame if they protected that player the night before. Body armor does not protect.
MB: 20 CB: 137 Deadline: 1:40:00 6/29/2010

2 Firefighter

- Until the Arsonist attempts to light his match, you may submit one person per night to smother in flame-retardant material. For the rest of the game, they will not be able to be ignited, whether the arsonist doused them before or douses them after. If you smother the arsonist, his match will not work, and he will be unable to ignite anyone at all! You are a very brave firefighter, though, and you are unable to protect yourself.
MB: 10 CB: 10 Deadline: 1:40:00 6/29/2010

3 Masonizer x 1

- Once during the game during the day, you may select one other player. If that player is town OR if that player has investigation immunity, they will become your mason partner and you will be given a quicktopic to talk in. You do not have to be town to use this ability.
MB: 5 CB: 21 Deadline: 7:41:00 6/29/2010

4 Federal Reserve Chairman x 1

- Once per game, you may decide to bring about a bout of inflation. This means that EVERYONE receives $200, including you. PM the mod to start the inflation. You may also PM the mod to DESTROY this ability (thereby doing your duty as Fed Chairman). Once destroyed, this ability will not be sellable, useable or anything else.
MB: 10 CB: 10 Deadline: 8:31:00 6/29/2010

5 Nobody Special

MB: 50 CB: 51 Deadline: 1:43:00 6/29/2010

Current bids may not be up-to-date. Current Bids and Deadlines will only be kept up-to-date by edit until the next vote count is posted.

[nopointinactingup]

@SPS: Are you suggesting SK is scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

I just realized something: If we quicklynch Andrius before the bidding is over, we can actually circumvent the NK entirely (should a mafia wind up with it). Since half the people here are scum, I think depriving mafia of a NK would help a lot. Let's discuss this quick.

Hi nopointinactingup! Its been awhile since 930.

##Vote: SaintKerrigan

I did have the Doctor ability, up until I was mugged. I did not submit a N1 action because I had no idea who the scum would target. And with two shots I didn't want to waste either of them, thinking- of course- that another NightKill ability would hit the market D3. I did actually submit a N2 protection, but it either arrived after deadline or zoraster missed it, sadly.

Your excuse for a no-show on N1 is bullshit. Of course the doctor doesn't know who the scum will target exactly. That doesn't excuse the doc from protecting people. You aren't a player that I consider dumb enough to legitimately make that kind of mistake. Oh, and if you thought there would be another NK ability on D3, why not also assume that there'd also be another protective ability on D3? As for your "submission" on N2, even if you'd really done it it wouldn't have gone through; my mugger steals most abilities before they activate (and no, you don't get to know what abilities get priority over the mugger). Of course, this is all highly irrelevant, since you and I both know that you never used either of those protects because your team controlled the nightkill.

I did not have the Investigation Immunity, or else I would have claimed it. SK is obviously trying to pin it on me, with an obvious excuse under seemingly-true pretenses. Yes, I was mugged. This is the perfect opportunity for the scum_mugger to lead the town into another mislynch. Either SK has the Investigation Immunity or his partner does. I did not have that role at all. SK pinned this on me in the hopes that he'd be able to lead you all in yet another mislynch.

So let me ask you this: right now, half the players in this game are scum, on two separate teams, against four town players. If I were scum, and I was trying to lead the town into mislynching you, I'd be quicklynched the next day. Assuming town doesn't have control of the new NK and a townie is NKed, that leaves my scumbuddy against the other scumteam and two town players. If my team doesn't control the new NK, it's game over for my team. Even if my partner has the NK, this is bad for us. So if I were scum, why would I deliberately try to mislynch a townie when what my team actually needs is an opposing scumlynch?

Is it possible that I'm scum trying to get that other scum lynch? Certainly. But that pretty much means you're scum, now doesn't it? After all, why would I as scum pull this crazy stunt unless I was certain that you were a member of the other scumteam?

Don't let this scum lead you in another mislynch. SK's play is no shining light; and this scum gambit only makes it more apparent: that SK is scum.

When exactly did I lead the town into a mislynch before, Andrius? And why was it apparent before that I was scum? You weren't pushing the idea of my scumhood yesterday, giving me an FoS (so weak!) for D1 antics, and then melting in the background watching other people peck at me, never once getting in the ring yourself. It's only after I come out with incriminating evidence against you that you finally slap a vote on me and say, "Oh look, SK's obvscum." If it was that obvious before, what were you doing yesterday when my wagon actually had some steam?

@SPS: Are you suggesting SK is scum?

He's been doing more than suggest that for quite awhile now.

Townies get $20 each day, not $30 like you do.

This has no relevance to the quote this was in response to. None whatsoever.

Also, now that Spyrex the Townie is dead, care to explain what the FoS on him was for yesterday?

Zajnet, as long as you're claiming stuff, claim exactly how much money you had in your account at the start of Day 3.

[Zajnet]

$34

[SaintKerrigan]

$34

Ok, that's about the number I came up with as well. (Mine was $34.2.)

Was there a reason you only put $146 on the NK? Instead of, say, $147?

[Fishythefish]

@SK: if you want to have an argument with Andrius, that's fine. There's no question of us believing him over you, so you needn't bother.

That $34 figure is what it should be, for what little it's worth.

I still think we should have the auction before nightfall. 4:2:2 is a bad position, and temporarily ruling out some nightkills looks at most marginally good. Masoniser is a protown ability, and FRC looks pretty neutral. On balance, I think having these abilities in the game is protown.

@mod:

I'm afraid that I've got a vacation coming up. I expected to have internet access, but I've just been informed this won't be the case. This means that I have no access at all from Wednesday 7th July until Sunday 16th July. After that, I can promise good access and would definitely catch up fully and quickly. If that's too long an absence, you may want to replace me, permanently or (preferably for me) temporarily. Many apologies for this.

[SaintKerrigan]

I still think we should have the auction before nightfall. 4:2:2 is a bad position, and temporarily ruling out some nightkills looks at most marginally good. Masoniser is a protown ability, and FRC looks pretty neutral. On balance, I think having these abilities in the game is protown.

The problem is, if we wait for those and one of the mafia factions ends up with the NK, then we still have to contend with that tonight. If we quicklynch Andrius now before the bidding is over, we deprive a Mafia NK and we'll still get the abilities on D4 for people to use. Think about it as the town getting a free scumlynch (well, except for people paying off debts).

The more I look at it, this actually is a decent idea...

[Zajnet]

$34

Ok, that's about the number I came up with as well. (Mine was $34.2.)

Was there a reason you only put $146 on the NK? Instead of, say, $147?

I misread the rules and thought the 5% reduction was everytime you payed off debt, so I thought $46 was the most I could borrow without going into bankruptcy.

I can show the math if you want it.