Newbie 958 ~Game over!

[Shadow Dancer]

I liked equinox' analysis. I think I'll comment one point or another. Right now I'd like your present opinion on rem/zach. It seems to me like you're the only one besides me who realized his clear "I told you so" maneuvre(s), prepared D1 and executed D2. So I'd like to hear your opinion about just that.

And in this context:

[...]town also seem to have universally accepted remouk as town[...]

@brian: Who do you think you are, by the way? Why do you think you can speak in the name of

all

town? That is just an appeal to - alleged - majority to give yourself a credibility

you do not have

. If you did not realize this so far - at least

I

have much less determined opinion about rem. But hey, I'm scum, of course, that's "sure", you don't even have to care any more. That's dangerouly close to "every one who does not share my opinion must be scum" - and I do not see a glimpse of that attitude the first time from you. Sadly that's not scummy, but just plain ignorant.

[Shadow Dancer]

@equi (vs.inco): I see it happen again: I'd almost say I'd join a case against Inco if just you could present onloy one solid point why inco really could be scum. And you fail to bring up just that. In the following discussion Inco feels as slithery as a fish again. It's like every attack just slips off him. That alone raises my paranoia - if not my suspicion. What disturbs me is that I cannot find any red thread throughout his play, any consistency that would convince me that his whole play is not just a whole projection on the surface...

Speaking of Inco:

I'm pretty sure that at least one of Coach Travis/Shadow Dancer is scum;

I do not know at all were you take this dichotomy from.

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, by the way, because also Equi raised some issues now and some people still seem distracted by some of my early posts. As much sa I hate any one playing the newbie card and as inapropriate it would consider it for me to do in general - it was actually the first time I ever replaced into a game. And I hadn't seen any one doing it in an appropriate way before, so my play was a bit helpless sloppy and incosistent here and there why I was still trying to find into this game. I think I learned alot from DTM and Equi in that regard. I really liked how they presented their opening analyses. I already tried out a kind of DTM style replacement in another game I replaced into - though with little success nad eventually being lynched any way (I think smash was in that one, too).

And about the "slipping up" thing: I consider a fair amount of newby mistakes normal for a newbie game. But no one had done something extremely dumb when I replaced in, especially compared to the fiasco in newbie 929 where the first thing HH did was grab right after cliquey's throat and wanting to never let it go until cliq was lynched, because he'd read and not understood Albert's guide to tracking down scum (or how ever it is called).

@equi: Really funny you read that game. Why would any one willingly do that?! It was such a horrible game. Every one, including myself, except maybe three or four people - two of them scum - played just abysmal in there.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOP: "...why I was..." = "...while I was..."

[Shadow Dancer]

I'll do some ISO reading now to overhaul my reads on every one.

Please don't spam. ~Nik

[brianj]

@ Incognito
The problem is, I find most players in this game to either have distinctive playstyle or have proposed major foses that had been discussed extensively which I try to use to formulate my read. However I cannot really recall any definite argument you particularly brought up & defended which confused me a little because I would expect exprienced player would try to get actively involved in the discussion as much as possible. You yourself had said you "didn't have as solid reads as [you'd] like". I generally get the impression that you are just talking about the events that are currently occuring in the town, and hardly reflect back to the past discussions and try to get a detailed read on someone else.

Actually I woud very much appreciate it if you defended yourself by bringing up examples in which contradicts with my impression, and reveal your current impressions on all other current players. I am still cautious that your perfect scum record is making me judge you too critically than I would like.

@ Shadow Dancer

I'm going to have to respond to this post. You accuse me of misinterpreting and twisting your words. Contrarily, I'll have to accuse you of the same. You talk about Coach Travis two times in a post where you vote for him:

What I find interesting is that every one discussed about what DTM wrote but no one about what he did not, i.e. every one is ignoring the IMO remarkable fact that he never finished his analysis. Hence he never commented on my case against Earl, on CT's hesitance to vote any one in general and Earl in particular, Inco's L-1 vote that kind of was parallel to mine and the confrontation between rem, me and, to a lesser part, LC. I would have really liked to hear his opinin about that.
I don't know if this thought leads us anywhere, but since the reads he had on players when he died were the reads he had at a time where relatively little was going on in comparison... So: I ask myself: Who could have profitted from DTM not completing his analysis. Earl, rem and CT come to my mind, possibly also LC an I, Earl is dead, rem - well see above. I have no reasons to mistrust myself or LC for thinking along the same lines as me in this matter. That leaves CT...

You brought up the another possibility behind DTMaster kill (scum does not want DTMaster completing his analysis). That's good.

Then

you conclude that only CT benefits from DTMaster not completing his analysis; when such argument is present in the post where you vote for Coach Travis, does not this become another reasoning you throw at a town to effectively justify your L-1 vote? If you truly meant to propose such innoculous speculation for the town to discuss, then you rather chose a poor time to do so.

Then look at the sentence that soon follows after the quoted paragraph: "If mafia has a motive that lies in DTMs half-baked reads upon his death then it might rather be to frame some one". First, why definitely say DTM has "half-baked reads"? Who knows? To the town, possibility of mafia killing DTMaster for his read is just as equally as probable as the possibility you suggest. Could be subtle attempt to discredit value of NK'd Townie's analysis. Secondly, you point out mafia could have just killed DTMaster to bring suspicion upon the players he fos'd. I cannot believe it did not occur to you when typing this sentence that then mafia could also have killed DTMaster just as equally to frame Coach Travis, since he is singly implicated if we change reason behind DTMaster's death a little bit. Basically this is WIFOM and definitely has no place on the important L-1 vote post.

Another general matter that arose: Concerning agressiveness - in my opinion agression is crucial to scum hunting. Always keep in mind:

Scum wants to lay low, they are cowards and they are few trying to hide in a greater mass.

If you do not pressure hard and agressive, you give them an easy game. Town has to play as predators to win. BUT: It always has to be a controlled agression. If one no longer knows konw where one's heading, one's most likely on the wrong track.

I like how CT is trying to give some decent opinions lately, but with his general hesitance on D1, especially before his Earl vote, where I picked on him for his extremely wishy washy posts, make him my best feasible suspect for now. So:

unvote. vote CT

You are talking about your fos when you suddenly bring this scumhunting advice out of nowhere. You say aggression is crucial, and subtly suggest that scum are unaggressive cowards who just like parroting major concensus.

Right after that paragraph,

you vote Coach Travis on the reasons of hesistance and being wishy-washy. I am convinced to believe that you brought up that "scums are cowards" comment to lend further credibility behind your lackluster reason behind the vote.

Generally, I have pointed out the two things on the post you voted CT which subtly suggested he was scum. Regarding Coach Travis you might simply have said "vote Coach Travis because his general hesistance and wishy-washy nature on D1 makes him my best feasible suspect" (which is kinda terrible reason to put someone in L-1), but putting those statements about CT made your post look better.

I rather believe my point still stands valid, and I really do not like how you once again dismissed my point by saying: "I never specifically proposed causality", "it was just speculation", and "you are misled townie proposing bogus arguments". This is continuation of Shadow Dancer's tendancies to dismiss player leveling major fos against him as simply emotional:

As it turns out [remouk's] lack of understanding was just a symptome of deeper purely emotional response to my playstyle. ... [brianj] seems a bit misled into the same direction rem was misled. Maybe it's a general sympathy for newbies that leads to all this chain saw situations.

Also, is it me or Shadow Dancer's following multiple posts full of support for equinox which could be easily as interpreted as buddying: "liked equinox' analysis. I think I'll comment one point or another. Right now I'd like your present opinion on rem/zach. It seems to me like you're the only one besides me who realized his clear "I told you so" maneuvre(s)", "I'd almost say I'd join a case against Inco if just you could present onloy one solid point why inco really could be scum", "@equi: Really funny you read that game. Why would any one willingly do that?! It was such a horrible game. Every one, including myself, except maybe three or four people - two of them scum - played just abysmal in there."

[Zachrulez]

I need to read through Coach Travis's last game, but I want to lynch Incognito today. He's done a good job of staying inside the sheep costume, but I want him dead. I don't want IC scum pulling a master gambit tomorrow.

Vote: Incognito

What is this master IC gambit you speak of?

[Zachrulez]

I would prefer to lynch Shadow Dancer right now. At a glance of Alta's play, his suspicion of remouk feels fake to me.

[Zachrulez]

I'm pretty solid on Coach Travis. I'm not so solid on you, and that was what I was trying to find out. If you answer to my satisfaction, you're free to stay until Lylo when I get suspicious of you again. I'd be happier if you got lynched and just flipped, though, as that would answer a lot of questions and settle our doubts before Lylo. Think of this as the "lynching the confirmed cop" thing.

Don't like this. It seems like Equinox is playing fear games with the IC as opposed to having a case against Incog that has merit.

[Shadow Dancer]

The last thing to Equi was really off topic. A decent amount of OTT is a null tell, sometimes one cannot (i.e. does not wnat to) avoid it. Agreeing with another player on a specific point or liking some ones playstyle or particular posts are all different things then buddying up. I am certainly not going to follow Equi around any where blindly. The whole thing was more of a response to your claim that "all town agrees on being rem being town" which is - simple as that - not true and deeply misleading from your side. I see Equi make all the valid points that I saw against rem, but Equi does not give a final conclusion about rem. He also ignores my attack on rem and rem's reactions on it for the most part. That's quite inconvenient. So I asked him about it.

But I see were you are coming from now. AS I said, that huge post was just kind of a junkyard of thoughts I had while skimming the thread and I added my vote into it on the end, because I did not want it to stay on an absent player. If you compare it to my L-1 vote on Earl you'll realize that I did not realize it was an L-1 vote (I normally write a warning if I put any one at L-1).

I did not label you as emotional, just as overfocussing, which you are. And rem was purely emotional.

I was bringing up the "agression in scum hunting" matter because I was attacked for "agression" by rem and I also see "overreaction" accuses from your side and both of you obviously label it as strong scum tells which is simply wrong, at least it is not as simple as you make it seem.

And don't take me wrong: If you'd just have to look for the most "cowardly and low lying" player to find scum it would be well to simple and scum normally won't do you that favour. But it's a nice polemic metaphor to mark scum as such.

You brought up the another possibility behind DTMaster kill (scum does not want DTMaster completing his analysis). That's good. Then you conclude that only CT benefits from DTMaster not completing his analysis; when such argument is present in the post where you vote for Coach Travis, does not this become another reasoning you throw at a town to effectively justify your L-1 vote? If you truly meant to propose such innoculous speculation for the town to discuss, then you rather chose a poor time to do so.

I must admit that that thought convinced me a bit more that CT might be scum. but there's a huge crux in it: All this only makes sense if DTM would have thought similarly to me about that matter - which I cannot know. In

my

opinion CT's posts after the point where DTM's analysis ended, where CT reached the pinnacle of his hesitance before joining Earl's waggon after I pressed him for a stance, were really scummy. Hence I assumed LC would have profitted from DTM not anylyzing that part. How ever, it is not clear DTM would have shared my opinion. Maybe you also do not share it.

How ever, even if you just picked out the things you could throw at me so far, since you stated you my approach a good one, I would really like you to give

your

opinion who would have profitted from DTM not completing his analysis, in your opinion.

I also did not say that in my opinion TC would have been the only one profitting if my assumption was right. I also mentioned rem, LC and me. I said that I had no reason to mistrust LC in this context because he picked up the same things as I did and als kept on my side in the discussion, though a bit in the background, mostly picking up my points - why don't you suspect

him

for that, by the way?
And rem is just out of discussion right now for pure metagaming reasons - there's no active player available to play his part and the whole discussion had finally arrived a point where I can't pick up the thread because it was about personal matters and newb teaching, so I decided - with a heavy heard - to put rem's replacement under "wait and see" for now.

And DTMs reads are half-baked in terms of his alanlysis ending somewhere at page 5 or 6 or something and thus it absolutely does not refelct the situation at the point in time of his death. And that's just a bad situation for us (at least for me) when dealing with his reads.

Something else: I share your and Equi's points against Inco. Right now when I see Inco I see the image of a snail, slowly creeping through this game, cautiously puuting out his feelers this way and that way, and retracting them whenever something seems not safe. And all he leaves behind is a slime trail that's at least as slippery as he himself. I'll definitely try put this into a more concrete case soon.

A player I have totally no read of right now is smash. I definitely need a closer look.

@Zach: Welcome. I already see OMGUS coming from you: What has Alta's play to do with my suspicion on rem (now you)?

[Zachrulez]

Uh... you're currently voting for Coach Travis, not me.

[brianj]

Okay, I am no longer that suspicious of you than before, but I still think you are the best lynch for today unless Incognito manages to spectacularly mess up somehow (or someone brings up convincing supported argument that incriminates him). Everyone else - due to their lack of posts or recent replacements - are currently in my "wait and see" list; I'm not going to start accusing them seriously until d3 where there are likely going to be more content. I want you lynched today because it will help greatly in determining alignment of remouk. Because of the way Alta attacked remouk, I can state with great deal of certainty that remouk/Zachrulez is town if you flip scum.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 2.8

Coach Travis (2)

- smashbro_of_the_SSS, Shadow Dancer

Shadow Dancer (2)

- brianj, Coach Travis

Incognito (1)

- Equinox

Not Voting (2)

- Zachrulez, Incognito

With seven players alive, four votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Sunday June 29 at 19:51 UTC.

smashbro_of_the_SSS and Coach Travis have been prodded.

[Coach Travis]

After reading through some recent posts for awhile, it's time to return to something Equinox rightfully accused me of not doing. Truth is, I wasn't getting strong enough vibes early in this game, as I require time and a lot of posts from everyone before I can really get a good read. So without further ado, here's the one useful thing I can carry over from my first game:

brianj:

I've never been suspicious of him from the start of the game.At first, he seemed to be blending in, but he quoickly became one of our more helpful players, doing scum hunting and making very good analysis. Nothing he's done has seemed scummy, and he's done plenty that's come across as townish. Basically, it'll take a huge turnaround before I'd vote him.

Town Read

Incognito

:Apparently others shared my initial feelings about his methods, but I won't judge him for that, because I said I understood it then and I still do. However, while he has been helpful at points, I can kinda understand what everyone else is saying about him just trying to sneak through. I'm not getting a huge scummy vibe, but I agree he could be a good lynch candidate for day 3.

Null Read/leaning Town

Shadow Dancer

:I already shared some thoughts on him. I was suspicious of Alta, and while SD started off well, and I could understand his attacks on Remouk, his recent play has been confusing to say the least, and since the vote came out of nowhere and I know my role, I have no choice but to think he saw me as an easy target at the time.

Scum Read

Smashbro

:To be honest, I haven't really seen that much from, and I wasn't even sure about the original role either. Nothing overly scummy, but I really have no clue at this point. Probably worth looking into soon.

Null Read

Equinox

:Well, my thoughts on LC are known, but I'm actually liking Equinox, even if I disagree with his reads from metagaming(I was totally useless that game, why else would I be the first lynch as town?), I find he's been a helpful scum-hunter, I can see where he's coming from with his case on Incognito.

Town Read

Zachrulez

:Obviously, I need to see more from him, but judging by his original role, Remouk, he seems townish, because while Remouk was unhelpful, almost everything he did just screamed newb, and I understand we could have a newb scum, but that wasn't the read I got from him.

Town Read

In conclusion, I still want to lynch SD today as I find him to currently be the scummiest, but I would also like to look into Incognito and Smashbro as we go along. brianj is currently my strongest town read, then I'd say Zachrulez, and finally Equinox, but it'll take a big mistake for me to vote either of them.

[Equinox]

Argh. Deadline is on Sunday.

Wall of quotes incoming!

I know I promised meta links, but I don't have the luxury of time to hunt down specific posts at the moment, so I'm going to put that off until tomorrow.

I've been scum-hunting, I've probably been the most active player in this game, I've been prodding and probing at players, I've been offering my opinions on pretty much all events. I mean, seriously?

The problem is the things you claim to have done are not as clearly motivated as we'd like. I'm reading you more as the neutral instructor than someone who has bet huge money on a town victory, which makes it difficult to determine if you're town-aligned.

That said, lack of transparency may be due to playing style. I'm going to have to investigate this more, given your town record (can't ignore that!).

I really did not realize I L-1 voted, else I'd certainly have written a fat warning after it

I'm curious. Why didn't you check the vote count prior to placing your vote? This line and your previous behavior suggests you are normally good with making sure where the votes are.

I think I wouldn't have voted CT if I had realized it.

...why? L-1 isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'm going to come back to the brianj and Shadow Dancer conversation later when my brain can process this kind of thing better.

Right now I'd like your present opinion on rem/zach. It seems to me like you're the only one besides me who realized his clear "I told you so" maneuvre(s), prepared D1 and executed D2. So I'd like to hear your opinion about just that.

You are asking me -- someone who is not confirmed -- to offer my opinion on one specific line offered by remouk. The latter is of more interest to me... since now we're focusing on only one aspect of remouk's play rather than the whole. Er. Okay.

To be really honest, while I love to accuse people of throwing around "I told you so!" to establish town cred, it's not something that makes or breaks a read on a player. I've seen that line used most frequently by scum, but I've also seen townies do it to show that they know what they're doing. What remouk said made me go o_O, but I feel it doesn't break my read on him. Not yet, anyway, since I still have Zachrulez to tear apart.

I think I learned alot from DTM and Equi in that regard.

I can see why someone accused you of buddying a couple of posts after this... my name's been brought up often enough in the past 3 posts. >_>

Oh, I read that game because I heard a townie faked cop to get someone lynched. It sounded like amusing reading.

What is this master IC gambit you speak of?

You, specifically, would be familiar with the technique; I'll leave it at that.

The reason I refuse to elaborate is: If an IC/SE is scum, they don't need to hear it. If we have a newbie scum team -- as Incognito suggests -- then I clearly don't need to tell them how to do it.

It seems like Equinox is playing fear games with the IC as opposed to having a case against Incog that has merit.

Poor phrasing, but that was exactly what was going through my mind. If I liked Incognito's answer, I'd have moved to my other suspect and then come back to Incognito's play in Day 3, which may or may not be Lylo. (I'm assuming worst-case scenario, hence my assumption there that Day 3 will be Lylo.)

Also, Incognito would not be affected by my "fear game," as you call it (wasn't my intention, but I like what you've called it, so it'll stick), if he were town. Town knows he's right. Scum... well,

be veeeeeery afraid

. <_<

[Equinox] also ignores my attack on rem and rem's reactions on it for the most part. That's quite inconvenient. So I asked him about it.

Actually, I did gloss over it, which is how I came to the conclusion that remouk was being genuine in his responses to you. I didn't get a read off your attacks during my skim because of your style of attack, and the giant walls of text just turned me off after a while. :/

I would really like you to give your opinion who would have profitted from DTM not completing his analysis, in your opinion.

I think this was directed at brianj, but I'll answer it anyway.

DTMaster was pretty much done. I don't see anything else in Day 1 that could have caused significant changes to his analysis. The people who would have profited from DTMaster not completing his analysis would be the same people who would benefit from his death in general:

1) Those people DTMaster would have pressured in Day 2 (Coach Travis, Equinox, Incognito, Shadow Dancer)
2) Those people who would be able to push for a mislynch in Day 2

I plan to use flips to determine where the scum lay with regards to these two groups. I highly suspect at least one is in #1, which means we're going to get some bussing today. Since #2 would be a total pain to unravel, and I already suspect the people in #1, I'm going to focus on those three people who are not me.

I already see OMGUS coming from you: What has Alta's play to do with my suspicion on rem (now you)?

OMGUS would be: "OMG, you totally suck for accusing me! YOU MUST BE SCUM." I haven't seen Zachrulez do that yet, so he's not OMGUSing.

After reading through some recent posts for awhile, it's time to return to something Equinox rightfully accused me of not doing.

Finally, finally, finally!

Hmm... not sure what to make of Coach Travis's post, since it happens to agree with my own reads (which means it's going to affect my read on Coach Travis overall) and agrees, to some extent, with consensus (which is pretty much a null tell, but still worthy of a second look). I like that he got around to it, though, and I think we can wait until Day 3 before discussing this further.

===

OKAY. I just outlined my plans somewhere up there where I talk about the DTMaster NK speculation. I feel good about...

Unvote, Vote: Shadow Dancer

THIS IS AN L-1 VOTE. DO NOT HAMMER UNTIL EVERYONE HAS CONTRIBUTED. Ask Shadow Dancer to claim if you plan to hammer. If deadline rolls around, don't wait any longer.

My reasoning: From a quick skim of posts against remouk and against brianj, the focus is on breaking apart their posts rather than some other form of defense. This is giving me difficulty in reading Shadow Dancer. Further, I see more scum motivation in using this kind of attack than town motivation.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

sorry guys, but i really don't have any interest in this game, and I'm somewhat busy at home.

@ mod

please replace me

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 2.9

Shadow Dancer (3)

- brianj, Coach Travis, Equinox

Coach Travis (2)

- smashbro_of_the_SSS, Shadow Dancer

Not Voting (2)

- Zachrulez, Incognito

With seven players alive, four votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Sunday June 29 at 19:51 UTC.

Nobody Special replaces smashbro_of_the_SSS as of this post. Danke!

[Nobody Special]

Bitte!

Hi, all, I'm Nobody Special, your friendly neighborhood Replacement.

(Don't worry, Equinox, I won't do anything stupid.)

I need to focus on the competing bandwagons.

I believe I'm going out to dinner tonight, so don't expect much for about 4-5 hours.

But first,

unvote.

[Equinox]

FLUFF POST. NO ACTUAL GAME CONTENT.

Hi Nobody Special! Welcome.

(Don't worry, Equinox, I won't do anything stupid.)

Heh.

...but you wouldn't need to worry about making this disclaimer if you're not scum! D: -paranoia incoming-

[Incognito]

Speaking of Inco:

I'm pretty sure that at least one of Coach Travis/Shadow Dancer is scum;

I do not know at all were you take this dichotomy from.

I brought up a trichotomy (if there's such a word?) a long time ago. Actually, I'm surprised that nobody asked me about that until now. My original post was as follows:

Right now, I'm thinking there's definitely one scum in

{

LordChronos, Coach Travis, Shadow Dancer

}

. Both scum could very well be in there, but I'm like 99% positive at least one is in that group right now.

I got this from the end of Day 1 votecount and my idea that there's usually at least one scum on any given Town lynching wagon:

Day One Final Vote Count

Earlder1 (5)

- LordChronos, Coach Travis, Shadow Dancer, Incognito, DTMaster

Since DTMaster flipped town, and I know I'm town that pretty much narrowed everything down for me to you, LC/Equinox, and Coach Travis.

In that same post, I was originally leaning town on you but after reading your reason for voting Coach Travis it made me feel like either you were being opportunistic or, if CT is scum, you were placing your vote on the wagon of your buddy so that you could potentially get town-cred at a later time after he flipped scum. I'm a firm believer in the idea that oftentimes the people with the worst reasons for voting someone are generally scum.

-~-~-~-~

I am willing to hammer Shadow Dancer, but I'd like to see a claim from him first and Equinox's vote on this page is making me twitchy. Equinox, in your long analysis post you seemed to barely mention anything about Shadow Dancer and were heavily pushing the idea of a me/Coach Travis scum-team. Why the sudden L-1 vote and full-on case against SD?

-~-~-~-~

Anywho, here's my current impression of all the players.

remouk/win-chester/Zachrulez:

I was leaning town on remouk, and I still largely get that impression upon reading his posts. I'm a bit paranoid about win-chester's disappearance though since I think Newbie scum would be more likely to flake out on a game like this upon replacing in than newb town, and Zachrulez hasn't really come forward with much as of yet. Because of that, Zachrulez is neutral leaning town for me.

Coach Travis:

Still getting a scummy read off of him. The one thing that's bugged me about him as of late is that in his analysis of all the players, his only scum read is Shadow Dancer, and I really have no clue who he suspects would be SD's buddy. It just gives me the impression that he might just be suddenly tunneling on SD to gain a possible mislynch to ride into Tomorrow with a LyLo situation. In fact, prior to CT's vote, the only thing I can recall him mentioning about him is that he thought he was town and that Lord Chronos was scum. To flip so quickly and then focus on nothing but Shadow Dancer... yeah. That's bothersome.

Shadow Dancer:

Initial vibes were leaning town - I liked the fact that he seemed to be using the meta-game to figure players out because I think that's more likely to be done by town. I never got a bad read off of Alta; he just struck me as newb-ish if anything. All that said, as I've mentioned in my response to him, I felt like his L-1 vote on Coach Travis and reason for doing so seemed shady to me, and it definitely taints my read of him. Plus, he's in the group of CT/SD/Equi.

brianj:

Still leaning town on him. He doesn't seem afraid of conflict, which I think is more likely to come from town than scum, and his scumhunting has seemed genuine all game. He's been focusing on Shadow Dancer/Alta from very early on but it doesn't give me the impression that he's trying to railroad a town the way scum would - it seems more like he genuinely believes he's found scum and is trying to get him lynched.

Equinox:

LordChronos was a neutral to scummy read, and Equinox has done some things that have bugged me too, especially with her recent vote and complete flip in opinions as well as things that pointed out that could have been potential slips. She explained them away, but it's possible that she's just a good smooth-talker or something along those lines. I doubt we could get enough votes to lynch her at this point but if she's still alive Tomorrow, she's definitely someone I would look out for.

Leech/smashbro/Nobody Special:

Our revolving door play-spot. Leech was scummy, smashbro was just there, though I liked his Coach Travis-hate, and Nobody Special definitely is not gonna have enough time to do anything. Would probably support his lynch though since this spot is a complete null read and null reads are not good to have around in potential LyLo.



Btw, I've never had anyone call my playstyle in-transparent, so that's definitely a new one to me. I suppose it's possible that I have been that way this game largely because I've had moments where I've just tuned the game out - when a game needs as many replacements as this one has had and my reads keep on suffering because of that or when a game moves as slow as this one has moved at certain points, I tend to get apathetic about the game. So that might be the explanation for it.

No more walls. kthx.

[Equinox]

I am willing to hammer Shadow Dancer, but I'd like to see a claim from him first and Equinox's vote on this page is making me twitchy. Equinox, in your long analysis post you seemed to barely mention anything about Shadow Dancer and were heavily pushing the idea of a me/Coach Travis scum-team. Why the sudden L-1 vote and full-on case against SD?

I wasn't buddied to until my little wall, nor was I asked to comment on one small aspect of remouk's play prior to that wall. Neither of those sit well with me. The attacks on brianj looked a bit familiar, and since it was an attack on someone I believe firmly to be town, I decided to skim through the remouk thing. Taking people's posts and then tearing them apart individually... that doesn't look townish to me. :/

Btw, I've never had anyone call my playstyle in-transparent, so that's definitely a new one to me. I suppose it's possible that I have been that way this game largely because I've had moments where I've just tuned the game out - when a game needs as many replacements as this one has had and my reads keep on suffering because of that or when a game moves as slow as this one has moved at certain points, I tend to get apathetic about the game. So that might be the explanation for it.

Heh. Yes, that would affect play significantly... I'll keep this in mind.

Tomorrow, she's definitely someone I would look out for.

Thanks for keeping me alive tomorrow... I guess? >______>

[Incognito]

Agreed on the tearing posts apart thing. It's basically an attacking the argument thing rather than trying to figure out the player. I don't see the buddying up thing though; he claimed to agree with your analysis. Maybe the portion about how he liked your initial replacement post could be interpreted as being buddied up to, but I think that's a stretch since he said the same thing about DTM who is dead and can't affect the game any longer.

I guess my issue NOW though is you claim that you pretty much skimmed through the remouk/SD exchange because it was too many walls for you to handle and after this recent exchange that SD had with brianj, you apparently decided to have a closer look at that rem/SD exchange to re-evaluate it. Because of that, I just don't at all see how you were able to determine that one side of the exchange was being genuine (you said remouk was being this in your long analysis post) while not commenting on the other side of the exchange (Shadow Dancer) until recently. It just strikes me as really contrived.

-~-~-~-~

Mod:

When exactly is our deadline, anyway? Your last post says Sunday, June 29th but June 29th is on Tuesday. Does our deadline fall on Tuesday then?

[Equinox]

I also talked about how I had trouble reading Shadow Dancer and his posts because of his style of attack. remouk was easier to read, so I was able to get that vibe from a skim.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 2.10

Shadow Dancer (3)

- brianj, Coach Travis, Equinox

Coach Travis (1)

- Shadow Dancer

Not Voting (3)

- Zachrulez, Incognito, Nobody Special

With seven players alive, four votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Tuesday June 29 at 19:51 UTC.

I thought I had changed it to Tuesday a while ago, but I guess I forgot to do it when I gave you the two-day extension.

[Incognito]

I also talked about how I had trouble reading Shadow Dancer and his posts because of his style of attack. remouk was easier to read, so I was able to get that vibe from a skim.

Fair enough, I guess.