Open 227 - Friends and Enemies

[AKnottedRope]

btw Lowell still hasn't posted after, as I said earlier, I saw him post in a queue.

Mod: Can you poke Lowell with a sharp stick?

Yup, he's been prodded; if there's no post by the evening he's getting replaced.

[chauchaudotcom]

Mod: could we get a votecount please? Thank you!

Sure can, the last one was 12 hours ago though.

[TheButtonmen]

The Vote Count Your Vote Count Could Smell Like:

don_johnson (4): Ythan, ZeroFang, CSL, Octupis
CSL (2): AKnottedRope, XScorpion
ZeroFang (1):, don_johnson
AKnottedRope:
XScorpion:
Sanxion:
chauchaudotcom:
Lowell :
Xite91:
Ythan:
smashbro_of_the_SSS (1): chauchaudotcom
Octupis:

Not Voting: Lowell, Sanxion, Xite91 and smashbro_of_the_SSS

[Ythan]

What do you think of a player who flakes out while being active on-site?

[Octupis]

Mod: I'm voting for Don too

[Lowell]

Wow. Completely forgot this game existed. Apologies. Said the guy who lurks anyway.

I will very seriously catch up, propose bold strategies, and get yelled at.

[Lowell]

Briefly read through. I enjoyed the don and ythan show, but as expected it's made everyone else useless.

vote chaudchaud

I decided to ISO him because his posts on page 5 (particularly defending don) seemed offputting. It turns out that's all he does. Jumps in at the middle of an argument and defends someone. He's trying to play safe and win friends. Speaking of....

fos don

Why was I the subject of instense discussion? And why does it feel like don is my publicist? His need to defend my playstyle is actually annoying. We already know ythan is generally an idiot, so I'm not sure why don and chaud needed to jump in and defend my honor.

As well, for all the posting don and ythan do at/around each other, it's shocking how little they disagree on (other than, as mentioned, the playstyle of people who are MIA)

Also, the

Zero

case is nowhere, and pointless. He's town. More later when I reread. It's now bookmarked, so I won't lose it again.

And FTR, I don't flake. I admit I lurk, but try to find more than one or two games out of the dozens I've played in which I left early. You can't.

[XScorpion]

^^ What about CSL?

[don_johnson]

Why was I the subject of instense discussion?

because ythan insisted.

And why does it feel like don is my publicist?

because he's so eloquent. and he likes youy.

His need to defend my playstyle is actually annoying.

not as annoying as your playstyle.

We already know ythan is generally an idiot,

actually, i am just learning this. never played with him before if memory serves...

so I'm not sure why don and chaud needed to jump in and defend my honor.

i wouldn't call it that. but whatever.

Also, the

Zero

case is nowhere, and pointless. He's town.

if you say so.

unvote

.

CSL's turn.

vote: CSL

[chauchaudotcom]

mod: I know, but there was a lot of vote changes during that time so I just wanted to double check. Thanks!

to which post are you referring?

The middle of page four.

I see. I was worried because if a case is put up against me that is void of logic and is complete bullshit, it is very hard to combat. I see your point that innocent townies needn't worry about how they come across, because they are ultimately innocent, but the only way to prove this definitively is upon their death. Once they are dead, they are no use to the town. I didn't want Don to make a bullshit case against me like he started on Zero in post 36.

I thought that I wouldn't be able to prove him wrong unless I died and proved my innocence, but then I would be no use.

I was just trying to avoid this situation. I guess I failed. I can see where you're coming from though.

Unvote; Vote: Octupis

If someone presented a complete bogus case against you, why are you worried that it would actually pull through? Especially judging how Don's case against Zero is going. If the case doesn't hold, no one will jump on it. It seems like you are worried that him pushing any case on you will cause people to look at you more closely, in which case you may, genuinely slip up. Not to mention you backed off Don rather easily. And if I didn't make it clear, it means I think you're scum, scum.

I decided to ISO him because his posts on page 5 (particularly defending don) seemed offputting. It turns out that's all he does. Jumps in at the middle of an argument and defends someone. He's trying to play safe and win friends. Speaking of....

so I'm not sure why don and chaud needed to jump in and defend my honor.

Are we reading the same game? I never defended don nor did I defend you.

if you say so. unvote.

CSL's turn.

vote: CSL

WOH. What???

Unvote; Vote: don_johnson

Explanation for your sudden shift in wagons? Particularly given how adamant you were about zero being scum?

[AKnottedRope]

Mod, can we get a prod on Xite as well?

He's on V/LA until Tuesday.

[don_johnson]

Also, the Zero case is nowhere, and pointless. He's town.

^^ lowell claims to know zero is town. there's no "probably" in the sentence. unless you want to get into a long and drawn out discussion of "friends and enemies" theory, i'm not going to explain my reasoning here much further. i'm comfortabloe with lowell tieing himself to zero in such a manner. this is my all time favorite open set-up, and i have many strategies that i can employ. there are two informed minorities in this game, and towns job is to protect the masons at all costs. regardless of lowell's actual role, i like the bold move he has made as i think it can only help town.

i already explained how i agreed with AKR in regards to CSL. the shift is only

sudden

because of lowell's declaration. you just put me to L-2 btw. CSL has yet to answer any of the questions directed at him in regards to his lackidaisical vote.

[AKnottedRope]

Also, at least one, but no more than two of {DJ, Lowell, ZeroFang} is mafia

[don_johnson]

Also, at least one, but no more than two of {DJ, Lowell, ZeroFang} is mafia

howso?

[AKnottedRope]

Just my observation of how votes have been flowing this game. Don't have time to do a full vote analysis, that was just offhand, but I'm fairly certain of it.

[don_johnson]

interesting. unsubstantiated vc analysis is unsubstantiated. but whateverz.

[AKnottedRope]

If you want more, then here.

Lowell and zero's actions and vote patterns suggest they are both in one of the informed minorities, be it scum or mason, while yours indicate that you may or may not be in the other. My scum read on the three of you is elevated, so that's why I assumed one of you is scum.

[AKnottedRope]

Also

there are two informed minorities in this game, and towns job is to protect the masons at all costs. regardless of lowell's actual role, i like the bold move he has made as i think it can only help town.

Leads me to believe that you are in the opposite minority of Lowell and Zero.

But that leads to a bit of a problem. If you were mason and Lowell and zero were scum, then why would you unvote Zero after Lowell told you to? I may have just talked myself into voting you. I need to go back and read you and zero in ISO later.

[don_johnson]

Also

there are two informed minorities in this game, and towns job is to protect the masons at all costs. regardless of lowell's actual role, i like the bold move he has made as i think it can only help town.

Leads me to believe that you are in the opposite minority of Lowell and Zero.

But that leads to a bit of a problem. If you were mason and Lowell and zero were scum, then why would you unvote Zero after Lowell told you to? I may have just talked myself into voting you. I need to go back and read you and zero in ISO later.

my theory is this:

towns job is to protect the masons, so i don't think it is out of the realm of possibiliity for vanilla's to "soft-claim" mason at all. in fact, i think it is beneficial as it draws the nk's away from the real masons. as long as townies don't "fake-claim", the strategy can work.

[/hypotheticals:

if i am mason with AKR and ythan, lowell softclaiming "mason" with zero helps draw the nk away from us. no reason to lynch lowell or zero. wait til night to see if one of them dies. if not, suspicion certainly goes up the next day.

if i am vanilla, then lowell softclaiming "mason" with zero has to be read as either a real softclaim or a vanilla trying to draw an nk away, or a scum trying to draw out the real masons with reactions. seeing as how neither player was under a tremendous amount of pressure, the likelihood of it being a scum gambit is low. so my deduction would be to let them go to night and see if one of them is nk'd.

as scum, it would make more sense to call out the claim, insist on a "real" claim, or pursue the lynch to L-1 in order to actually get a claim. scum's number one job in this set-up is to uncover the masons as soon as possible.
[/end hypotheticals

you also neglect to embrace the idea that i might be masons with lowell and i am just listening to my mason buddy.

however, i would rather embrace the wifom generated by lowell's statement, rather than push it to some kind of revealing conclusion as i believe it ultimately serves town's interest more than scums.

[don_johnson]

fyi: i'm off to work. cannot post there so i'll return in at least 12 hrs. i'm only claiming under threat of hammer, so if it gets to that, please wait until i return. personally, i don't think the pressure should be let off CSL until they respond. but whateverz.

[AKnottedRope]

Unvote, Vote: don_johnson

L-1 if I've counted correctly.

[quote="don_johnson]you also neglect to embrace the idea that i might be masons with lowell and i am just listening to my mason buddy. [/quote]
With what you said above this and with your voting patterns, that's hardly likely.

however, i would rather embrace the wifom generated by lowell's statement, rather than push it to some kind of revealing conclusion as i believe it ultimately serves town's interest more than scums.

The first priority of mine is outing scum, so I embrace "revealing conclusions." Why don't you?

[AKnottedRope]

EBWOP:

Unvote, Vote: don_johnson

L-1 if I've counted correctly.

you also neglect to embrace the idea that i might be masons with lowell and i am just listening to my mason buddy.

With what you said above this and with your voting patterns, that's hardly likely.

however, i would rather embrace the wifom generated by lowell's statement, rather than push it to some kind of revealing conclusion as i believe it ultimately serves town's interest more than scums.

The first priority of mine is outing scum, so I embrace "revealing conclusions." Why don't you?

[Xite91]

First, iso'd CSL, what case is there on him? he's lurking miserably, but that's about it.

Second, Don, I know you're not a mason and you fake

not so

soft-claiming to keep from getting a lynch is stupid and I see you as nothing but a threat to town.

don_johnson

@Everyone else, persecute me for this later if you want, but I think I'm gonna be nk'd anyways. Well, it was worth catching scum.

[XScorpion]

The case on CSL is as simple as him lurking and then popping up just to place an obviously scummy bandwagon vote. I suppose if don flips town he's pretty cleared, but otherwise he should die.
Is that a vote? You might want to use the word "vote."
Plus don hasn't actually claimed mason yet...so if you actually are a mason and he flips town, you just ousted yourself for no reason. Good job.

[Xite91]

oops

Vote: Don_Johnson

I don't think he'll be flipping town
and he may as well have claimed mason (he did all but actually claim)