Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[Zang]

Zang: you say you said what you actually thought on pickpocket. Meaning you thought that it was a scummy ability, but one that scum probably didn't have enough money to buy because of the nightkill

You don't agree?

I really don't believe you said that as a protown pickpocket. It's unnatural to call your abilities scummy,

So as a pro-scum pickpocket, I would?

As to why you claimed, you may have thought it would get Zajnet lynched

Then why did I say that he had the correct amount of money?

Any reasons for that scumlist?

Yes, SPS and Nopoint aren't doing anything and SK and Zaj are town so that leaves you or AGM as the final scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

SaintKerrigan, the difference between my behaviour and Cyberbob's behaviour in mini 934 is that my behaviour was mostly exaggerated to draw a reaction from you.

...okay? What kind of a reaction were you trying to get out of me?

FoS: Nopointinactingup

He's been mysteriously quiet as of late, and there's some outstanding questions posed to him.

@ Zang: Why am I town?

[Fishythefish]

@Zang: my problem is this. If you bought the pickpocket, as town, here is what you said and did:
- Bought the pickpocket, for presumably protown reasons.
- Said that the pickpocket was a power that scum had more motivation to buy.
- Said that the pickpocket was basically third party out for a money win.
These don't add up for me. If you were aware of the (pretty good) reasons that made it sensible for a town player to bid $251 (or presumably a bit more) on the ability, you simply wouldn't think that it's predominantly a scummy ability. Similarly, you'd have no reason to make your comment about the money win; that surely wasn't the reason you bought the pickpocket.

You are placing a lot of emphasis on why you wouldn't have done certain things as scum. I don't think there is a problem with explaining your behaviour as scum; it can be a combination of just saying what you really thought and never intending to claim pickpocket. But my case is that your behaviour has no protown explanation. Arguing that it makes no sense as scum is relevant, but should be a side issue. If you are town, my points should have good answers; you would have done what you did for town reasons, and you should be able to explain those.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm going to go do a read soon, but for the brief moment, I can:

1) Confirm I got pickpocketed.
2) I don't think we should wire SK money. If he has Doc, he's going to be a NK target. Getting him out of debt is not a huge priority. We don't want to put all our eggs in one basket.
3) I think SK's list of likely scum is a really good place to go, esp. from my POV - since I know I'm town, I basically see 3 scumbags sitting in plain view.

[Fishythefish]

@AGM: why do you think Zang is town?

[Zang]

@ Zang: Why am I town?

well you caught andrius so I don't think you would be his partner. You could be part of the other scum team but I doubt it because of your overall pro-town play.

If you were aware of the (pretty good) reasons that made it sensible for a town player to bid $251 (or presumably a bit more) on the ability, you simply wouldn't think that it's predominantly a scummy ability. Similarly

Well, nobody else pointed out the reasons for a town pick pocket.

Similarly, you'd have no reason to make your comment about the money win; that surely wasn't the reason you bought the pickpocket.

Actually it was. I assumed that there would be more money related roles on market later on and I thought that I could outbid thoose with the money I got from the pickpocket without going to much in debt.

But my case is that your behaviour has no protown explanation.

But it also has no pro-scum explaination. I'm not the most pro-town player.

[zoraster]

Day 4 Vote Count

Zang ( 1 ) Fishythefish,
SaintKerrigan ( 0 )
Zajnet ( 0 )
nopointinactingup ( 0 )
Fishythefish ( 0 )
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 0 )
AlmasterGM ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 6 ) nopointinactingup Steam-Powered Shovel, SaintKerrigan, AlmasterGM, Zajnet, Zang,
Total Votes ( 7 )
Deadline: July 9th at 11:00 EDT
With 7 total votes, 4 needed to lynch.

Marketplace

To place a bid, PM Zoraster with the highest price you would be willing to pay.

1 Arsonist

- You have a whole bunch of highly flamable liquid, but only one match. Every night, you may douse one person in kerosene. Once during the day, you may PM the mod with the word

ignite

. This will cause every player who you have doused to go up in flames instantly, killing them. Beware the firefighter though! Doctors also protect against someone going up in flame if they protected that player the night before. Body armor does not protect.
MB: 20 CB: 300 Deadline: SOLD

2 Firefighter

- Until the Arsonist attempts to light his match, you may submit one person per night to smother in flame-retardant material. For the rest of the game, they will not be able to be ignited, whether the arsonist doused them before or douses them after. If you smother the arsonist, his match will not work, and he will be unable to ignite anyone at all! You are a very brave firefighter, though, and you are unable to protect yourself.
MB: 10 CB: 121 Deadline: SOLD

3 Masonizer x 1

- Once during the game during the day, you may select one other player. If that player is town OR if that player has investigation immunity, they will become your mason partner and you will be given a quicktopic to talk in. You do not have to be town to use this ability.
MB: 5 CB: 122 Deadline: SOLD

4 Federal Reserve Chairman x 1

- Once per game, you may decide to bring about a bout of inflation. This means that EVERYONE receives $200, including you. PM the mod to start the inflation. You may also PM the mod to DESTROY this ability (thereby doing your duty as Fed Chairman). Once destroyed, this ability will not be sellable, useable or anything else.
MB: 10 CB: 10 Deadline: 8:31:00 6/29/2010

5 Nobody Special

MB: 50 CB: 100 Deadline: SOLD

6 Andrius

MB: 50 CB: Deadline: Open

7 Night Kill x 2

- Twice per game, you may PM the mod with a target. The following night, you will attempt to kill that person.
MB: 50 CB: Deadline: Opens 6/30

8 Governor x 1

- Once per game, you may PM the mod to use the governor power. This will skip that day's lynch. You must PM the mod BEFORE night falls. Twilight is fine, but you risk night falling before you get your PM in.
MB: 30 CB: Deadline: Opens 6/30

9 Deadline Setter

- You may set the deadline for the following day by PMing the mod before night falls. You may decide two variables: 1) the minimum lynch time (from 0-3 days), 2) the maximum deadline (from 7-14 days).
MB: 1 CB: Deadline: Opens 6/30

10 Pickpocket

- This ability will allow its owner to steal 25% of the cash his or her target possesses each night.
MB: 0 CB: 2 Deadline: 0:45:00 6/30/2010

Current bids may not be up-to-date. Current Bids and Deadlines will only be kept up-to-date by edit until the next vote count is posted.

If you won an asset, you will have received a PM from me. Please note that Pick Pocket and Andrius' Estate are both up for sale now and the others will go up for sale tomorrow.

[Zang]

Only 2 for pickpocket.

[nopointinactingup]

Sorry guys. The reason why I haven't been saying anything is because my Internet phone line has gone rouge for 2 days. I have some question for some of the players. Forgive me if the questions sound confused xD
@Zang:
1> Why did you claim pickpocket and why do you think it will benefit the town?
2> Why do you and Zaj assume Andrius' partner has NK?

@SK:

Also, I just discovered a problem. I still haven't paid off all my debt, and if it's not paid off by tonight, I have to sell all my abilities to help pay off the debt. This includes Investigation Immunity. This gives the scum an opportunity to get it right back. I'd prefer this didn't happen.

So if anyone wants to help me out by wiring me some money to pay off the debt (I need around $160) to keep II out of scum hands, I'd really appreciate it. Multiple people could wire me money rather than one person doing it (and that's actually a better idea).

1> Why can't someone else outbid the scum on investigation imunity instead of wiring money to you, which is very risky? You sound like you're trying to make an excuse to draw money to your side.

I'm going to go do a read soon, but for the brief moment, I can:

1) Confirm I got pickpocketed.
2) I don't think we should wire SK money. If he has Doc, he's going to be a NK target. Getting him out of debt is not a huge priority. We don't want to put all our eggs in one basket.
3) I think SK's list of likely scum is a really good place to go, esp. from my POV - since I know I'm town, I basically see 3 scumbags sitting in plain view.

Who's your scum suspects?

Right now, I'd have to agree with more Fishes' post regarding Zang's play as I can't seem to figure out Zang's reason for claiming pickpocket. Though I have certain suspicions, I don't have a definite scum suspect yet, sorry xD. But if I had to guess, I'd put my money on:

Zang --> Possible scum pickpocket ( don't take it personal xD )
Fish and SK --> More likely town for their activity
SPS --> Tunneling townie
Zajnet --> Possible scum partner with Zang
AGM --> Possible Andrius partner ( because I don't have any reads on him )

[Zajnet]

@Zang:
1> Why did you claim pickpocket and why do you think it will benefit the town?
2> Why do you and Zaj assume Andrius' partner has NK?

Zang --> Possible scum pickpocket ( don't take it personal xD )
Fish and SK --> More likely town for their activity
SPS --> Tunneling townie
Zajnet --> Possible scum partner with Zang
AGM --> Possible Andrius partner ( because I don't have any reads on him )

I'll answer my reasoning for 2> up there even though you asked Zang. Andrius didn't use his doc ability at all (assuming SaintK was telling the truth), which means that he wasn't worried about his partner getting shot. At all. Which means that his partner must have had the NK.

I disagree with your scumlist.

Why is SPS town?
Why is Fishy town?
Why is SaintK town?

[AlmasterGM]

Alright, so as a starting point for my scumhunting, I used SK's list.

SPS

AGM

Nopoint
Fishy

I figure it's a decent place to look because 1) it's well empirically grounded, 2) his move last round was pretty friggin protown, and 3) even if he is scum, there's still another group out there, so he still has an incentive to hunt and not spew lies.

Fishy would be the last choice of mine for lynchage. He seems to be making a decent attempt to make relevant analysis and post reads. The only thing that gets me is a gut feeling that his read seem a bit ... forced. This could just be confirmation bias since he's on the list to begin with, though, so I want to let him live for today.

next is Nopoint, who just replaced in so is a tad tough to read.

Annnd finally, we have the big kahuna, Steam-Powered Shovel. This is my preferred lynch today for a few reasons. First, he vote hopped so much I got dizzy. And he said he was doing it too, which is probably why he got away with it for a while, but in retrospect that's just not acceptable. Second, he went into hypertunnel mode on SK and I now think SK is town, so that's sketch. Third, a lot of his posts are pretty short and lacking in real in-depth analysis. Finally, a lot of what he does just doesn't make sense. Like FOSing SpyreX. Wut.

##Vote: SPS

Also, in the non-hunting world of the game - Like I said before, I'm sitting on a pretty big hunk of cash with no debt, so I'm going to try and give the scum a run for their money on the nightkill. Depending on what other abilities they bought, I may or may not win, but I think I can come pretty close. If anyone wants to help me out with that by wiring any small amounts of money you have left, that'd be nice. And, if I win, I'll give the shots up to the democracy or, if apt, not use them at all.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, @Fishy -

I don't. He could be scum. I think he's more likely to be scum than you, actually. I just think SK's list is a good place to start a lookin.

[SaintKerrigan]

Zaj, how much money did you have at the start of Day 4?

@ NP: You didn't answer my question.

I confirm. Zang is telling the truth apparently. So Zaj is scum, or a liar?

What is the meaning of this?

1> Why can't someone else outbid the scum on investigation imunity instead of wiring money to you, which is very risky? You sound like you're trying to make an excuse to draw money to your side.

My way, II will definitely not end up in scum hands. If I let it go to market, I can't control who gets it. If someone wants to try and outbid the scum and land into a nice pile of debt, they are welcome to do so.

Why is SPS a tunneling townie instead of tunneling scum?

SPS's lack of posting isn't helping his image at all, but he's also not present in another game I'm playing with him, so I'm not sure it's intentional lurking. Nopoint is starting to ping more heavily on my scumdar.

Also, the Federal Reserve Chairman should claim and explain the nature of his role. There has got to be a catch if the role allows you to destroy it, and I'd like to know what it is.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, protip to whoeverse in charge of the Fed now:

DO NOT ACTIVATE IT BEFORE THE NEXT BID ROUND IS OVER. Yes, there are more town than scum, so town will get more net $$. However, scum also know who each other are. This means they can safely wire themselves the cash and end up with a block of at LEAST $400, plus whatever other assets they have on hand. Unless the town plans to wire their money to a trusted townie player to combat this, which is risky, we would be completely locked out of our ability to win stuff from scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

Actually, if my guess about the role is correct, using it will also deflate the value of our money. We'd get a temporary economic boost, but then our wages would be worth less than before so it would hurt us in the long run. That's just my speculation, though, based on how I understand inflation.

[Zang]

1> Why did you claim pickpocket and why do you think it will benefit the town?

I claimed pickpocket because I was asked to and it would benefit the town because it couldve caught zaj as scum.

[zoraster]

Day 4 Vote Count

Zang ( 1 ) Fishythefish,
SaintKerrigan ( 0 )
Zajnet ( 0 )
nopointinactingup ( 0 )
Fishythefish ( 0 )
Steam-Powered Shovel ( 1 ) AlmasterGM,
AlmasterGM ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 5 ) nopointinactingup Steam-Powered Shovel, SaintKerrigan, Zajnet, Zang,
Total Votes ( 7 )
Deadline: July 9th at 11:00 EDT
With 7 total votes, 4 needed to lynch.

Marketplace

To place a bid, PM Zoraster with the highest price you would be willing to pay.

7 Night Kill x 2

- Twice per game, you may PM the mod with a target. The following night, you will attempt to kill that person.
MB: 50 CB: 297 Deadline: 0:01:00 7/3/2010

8 Governor x 1

- Once per game, you may PM the mod to use the governor power. This will skip that day's lynch. You must PM the mod BEFORE night falls. Twilight is fine, but you risk night falling before you get your PM in.
MB: 30 CB: Deadline:

9 Deadline Setter

- You may set the deadline for the following day by PMing the mod before night falls. You may decide two variables: 1) the minimum lynch time (from 0-3 days), 2) the maximum deadline (from 7-14 days).
MB: 1 CB: Deadline:

Current bids may not be up-to-date. Current Bids and Deadlines will only be kept up-to-date by edit until the next vote count is posted.

Just a reminder that bidding is open on the new stuff. If you sent a bid in and it's not reflected here (i.e. there's no current bid) let me know.

I have also taken Andrius' estate off the market, but it is still available. If you ever want to bid on Andrius' Estate, simply PM me with a minimum bid of at least $50.

[SaintKerrigan]

Whoever got NS' stuff should claim in their next post and report on what NS had.

The masonizer should also use his ability today, and he and his target should confirm it in thread.

[AlmasterGM]

Here is my proposed plan. Please comment because, if accepted, we will need to move quickly.

1) "Quicklynch" a no-lynch. There's no NK, so it won't hurt anything.
2) Masonize me, I become confirmed town.
3) Everyone wires me $$$ so I can win NK.
4) Town gets the NK's and we have at least 1 confirmed townie (myself).

This plan fails if and only if the same scumteam has purchased both arsonist AND firefighter and burns it all to get rid of me, in which case town still wins because they blew $350+ dollars to kill a single person when they could have sat back and eventually nuked the entire game.

[Zajnet]

Here is my proposed plan. Please comment because, if accepted, we will need to move quickly.

1) "Quicklynch" a no-lynch. There's no NK, so it won't hurt anything.
2) Masonize me, I become confirmed town.
3) Everyone wires me $$$ so I can win NK.
4) Town gets the NK's and we have at least 1 confirmed townie (myself).

This plan fails if and only if the same scumteam has purchased both arsonist AND firefighter and burns it all to get rid of me, in which case town still wins because they blew $350+ dollars to kill a single person when they could have sat back and eventually nuked the entire game.

The only problem I see is if you were scum and your partner had the masonizer, but other than that I guess the plan is solid.

[Fishythefish]

Here is my proposed plan. Please comment because, if accepted, we will need to move quickly.

1) "Quicklynch" a no-lynch. There's no NK, so it won't hurt anything.
2) Masonize me, I become confirmed town.
3) Everyone wires me $$$ so I can win NK.
4) Town gets the NK's and we have at least 1 confirmed townie (myself).

This plan fails if and only if the same scumteam has purchased both arsonist AND firefighter and burns it all to get rid of me, in which case town still wins because they blew $350+ dollars to kill a single person when they could have sat back and eventually nuked the entire game.

Whether or not this was a good plan, I'm afraid it won't work. Because I've already used masonise, and not on you. The results haven't come back yet, and I'm not going to claim who I used it on for now - if they are town, I'll discuss with them whether claiming is a good plan (if they are scum, obviously I'll tell you that immediately). If they are town, wiring them loads of money is certainly an option that should be considered.

[AlmasterGM]

yayyyyyyyyy

[nopointinactingup]

Why is SPS town?
Why is Fishy town?
Why is SaintK town?

I'm still in my infant stage of my deduction so they are most likely subjected to change. But right now

SPS clearly looks town to me, with his contributive posts and reasonable amount of scum-hunting, why do you think he's not town?
SK is more ambiguous, but her spending all her money on the mugger ability and then use it to expose Andrius leads me to believe she's town becuz scums would either make use of their money for other abilities/ or keep their finding secret to their benefit.

What is the meaning of this?

When Zang claimed and tried to disprove Zaj, I could confirm Zang is the pickpocket and thought the same as to the Zaj-scum possibility.

1> Why can't someone else outbid the scum on investigation imunity instead of wiring money to you, which is very risky? You sound like you're trying to make an excuse to draw money to your side.

My way, II will definitely not end up in scum hands. If I let it go to market, I can't control who gets it. If someone wants to try and outbid the scum and land into a nice pile of debt, they are welcome to do so.

Why is SPS a tunneling townie instead of tunneling scum?

SPS's lack of posting isn't helping his image at all, but he's also not present in another game I'm playing with him, so I'm not sure it's intentional lurking. Nopoint is starting to ping more heavily on my scumdar. [/quote]

No scums in their right mind would go about acting so suspicious and still not change his/her style. I think.

Almaster plan is good, but what if both the masonizer and the masonized are scums?

[nopointinactingup]

Oops,

Fishy

clearly looks town to me, with his contributive posts and reasonable amount of scum-hunting, why do you think he's not town?

[Zajnet]

Why is SPS town?
Why is Fishy town?
Why is SaintK town?

I'm still in my infant stage of my deduction so they are most likely subjected to change. But right now

SPS clearly looks town to me, with his contributive posts and reasonable amount of scum-hunting, why do you think he's not town?
SK is more ambiguous, but her spending all her money on the mugger ability and then use it to expose Andrius leads me to believe she's town becuz scums would either make use of their money for other abilities/ or keep their finding secret to their benefit.

...

No scums in their right mind would go about acting so suspicious and still not change his/her style. I think.

Almaster plan is good, but what if both the masonizer and the masonized are scums?

Fishy clearly looks town to me, with his contributive posts and reasonable amount of scum-hunting, why do you think he's not town?

The issue is that you're right. No scum in their right mind would neglect to "scumhunt." Which is why appearing to scumhunt doesn't make Fishy and SPS look town. They could very easily be scum who are "scumhunting."

About the masonizer plan, you're right, but if both are scummy, we lynch the masonizer and if they flip scum, we can be pretty sure that the masonized was their scumbuddy. Idealy we do it with townie looking people so that we don't have to worry about it.