Newbie 970 - Quietville - Game over

[Vayre]

Sorry about the absence, combination of school and utter confusion. I'll try to stay more active.

@Vayre
Also, in 6 posts, you have not contributed much, which may seem like active lurking.

Less lurking, more me failing quite badly. Most or all people in this game are a lot more perceptive/experienced/less sucky than me it seems, so either I cannot notice anything, or anything I do notice has already been noticed and explained in greater detail.

Anyway, nothign that I can make out in the recent posts and looking back RSimplicity did explain himself, I just missed it so:

Unvote

[wolframnhart]

Sorry everyone, lost access to a computer for a bit there, couldn't even send a message to the back up mod but it's all good now. Sending prods to the following players:
Orphen, Computing, Reverse, Sleepless, and Xite91.

Day 1 Vote Count #8

Rain - Orphen
Reverse - Nachomamma8
Orphen - Rain, Xite91
Xite91 - Sleepless
Sleepless - Mirhawk

Not Voting: Computing, Reverse, Vayre

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline for Day 1 Ends July 9th 6pm PDT

[Rain]

@Vayre
You don't need to be any of those things to play mafia =) Just post your thoughts and we'll work with that. If inspiration doesn't come easily, you can try listing people and breaking it down to who looks suspicious and who doesn't, with a short explanation why. If that doesn't help, then you can try townhunting instead; of the 9 players, who looks most pro-town, then work your way down until you have 2 least probable townies.

[Xite91]

Sleepless is V/LA, he might have forgotten to say that.
Rain, that's really good information.
I think it's time we start scum-hunting for real tho. We kind of regressed for a few days.
So anyways, I'm still convinced orphen is scum.
Also, I can almost guarantee that rain is town.
Vayre, I'm not sure of you. I needs more posts.

[Reverse Simplicity]

There is not a lot to go off at the moment. I'll try to organize my thoughts on people. No one seems scummy enough at the moment to me to warrant my vote.

[Xite91]

Okay, so lets start conversation.
Who's the two most scummy to everyone?

[Computing]

Sorry for my absence, I hadn't even realized it had been a week and I'd forgotten about a holiday that I'm going on so depending on what internet access I have there (probably none) I'll be away until Tuesday >___>

Regarding the stuff I said I'd post on Orphen's reaction the variations between what I thought he might say are really just how annoyed he would be, it seems his angry demeanor is limited to being misunderstood and his votes are also limited to when he is misunderstood as well (all two of them).

At the moment the two who I think are most scummy after doing as Rain suggested Vayre do (I'm having the same problems as him with finding stuff to contribute) are Mirhawk and Reverse Simplicity.

With Mirhawk I think I'm possibly being swayed by others rather than thinking for myself but I really don't like the fact that he doesn't like Sleepless making a list as in his sixth post he effectively makes a list like Sleepless did (just in paragraph form) so I'm not sure what his deal with lists is.
(I also think that making lists like that probably is useful to town as it allows you to see if all of the rankings they place make sense and if there's one that they haven't backed up question them about it and if someone starts to bandwagon it that would show scumminess and lead to more information through questioning that person)

Reverse Simplicity doesn't consider others scummy enough to vote on now but voted Mirhawk without checking through the thread to make sure his information was accurate? Surely he could find something he considered scummy to at least comment on.

And I have some more questions:
1. Mafia can only talk to each other during the night, right?
2. What happens if a mafia is replaced? Do they get to see what the previous mafia have talked about or talk at all about different play styles they might have from their predecessors?
3. Several people have stated that they think I'm probably town, is this actually a good thing for me or is it liable to get me killed in the night?

[[O]rphen]

4 days and no-one has responded to what i've said. Mainly rain/xite.

1)Night and pregame
2) Not sure about this. They'll get to read what has already been discussed between the originals, and not sure what else host usually allows.
3) Its good and bad. Bad for that exact reason, yes you'll probably die if they think your a big enough threat, but now most people trust what you say

[Rain]

@Xite
It's dangerous to say that you can "guarantee" someone to be town. You might be persuaded by what I say, but only mafia scums *truly* know who's pro-town from the beginning.

@Computing
1. Yes, mafia can only talk to each other during the night. The mod, or our IC, would have to tell us whether they can talk during the confirmation stage though (Night 0).
2. What usually happens is that a quicktopic thread is opened, where mafia can freely talk to each other. The link is initially provided by the Mod to the mafia players so that he/she can monitor the thread as well. If mafia is replaced, the link is shared to the replacement so that the history of the conversation can be shared. Sometimes, the quicktopic link is provided after the game, for everyone to view.
3. Somehow, I feel that answering this question is tantamount to suicide.

These questions aside, onwards to discussing players.

Regarding the stuff I said I'd post on Orphen's reaction the variations between what I thought he might say are really just how annoyed he would be, it seems his angry demeanor is limited to being misunderstood and his votes are also limited to when he is misunderstood as well (all two of them).

True as that may be, it is also true that he

chose

to adopt an angry demeanor. Instead of respectfully correcting me if corrections were due, or ask courteous questions, his posts are riddled with passive aggressiveness. Quoting passages to support this claim would extend this wallpost for little reason, so I ask readers to look at his posts in isolation. If I missed some parts where Orphen was civil, please let me know and I'll retract this accusation.

While this alone may not be a strong indication of scuminess (I admit, I do sound cocky at times), coupled with the reasons I've posted beforehand makes Orphen to be the leading person likely to be scum, in my opinion.

The second person in the lead would... probably be the late Lateralus. Mostly gut feeling, and some moot arguments. S.Assassin doesn't post enough to make me change my mind. It's a shame that replacements don't need to defend their predecessor's stance.

I see some people have cast suspicions on Mirhawk. The points against him look rather moot, and Mirhawk seem to defend himself pretty well (i.e. reasonable and plausible explanations). That being said, I wouldn't trust him with my life. Just saying that if people want to lynch him, a stronger case should be presented.

As for others... I don't know. I'd need more posts from them to get a sharper read, for now it's mostly fuzzy and wild guesses. (Truth be told, it's getting late, I'm sleepy, I need to work early in the mourning, maybe later?)

@Orphen
With your permission, I declare our wallpost battle to be over. I see little use of prolonging what looks like a huge misunderstanding. I have presented my case on posts dated Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:41 pm and Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:46 pm. Most of your attempts to refute my arguments are either "no, you are wrong, you misunderstood me", or "you called me ***? Well, you're ***!". I do not consider this to be a defense; you are merely avoiding my accusations. Now, I'm not saying either of us is right (you might have some good points. May I suggest you work on your presentation?), I'm just saying that I'm willing to drop this for the benefit of the town, so that we don't clog other people's discussion. If someone else wants clarification, I will not hesitate to provide it.

Now, I understand that you'd want some way to redeem yourself (in other words, you might want to convince me to retract my vote). I see two possible solutions; either present a case against someone that might seem scummier than you, or posting a sensible defense that uses clear logic. Other solutions may exist, I just can't think of others right now.

[Xite91]

And I have some more questions:
1. Mafia can only talk to each other during the night, right?
2. What happens if a mafia is replaced? Do they get to see what the previous mafia have talked about or talk at all about different play styles they might have from their predecessors?
3. Several people have stated that they think I'm probably town, is this actually a good thing for me or is it liable to get me killed in the night?

The rest of your post was interesting, but I don't have much time and I'm here to scumhunt of course.
Uh, the questions bother me for some reason. Anyone else?

[Xite91]

4 days and no-one has responded to what i've said. Mainly rain/xite.

EBWOP
What did you say, I might have missed it, sorry.
If you want i'll check you out in iso to see, but later like I said, not much time.

[[O]rphen]

Slightly agree for now. We both misunderstood posts. I can't see how why would want to convince you to retract your vote, nor why you would include it here. If you guys want, I'll try to be less aggressive. Oh and with the dates, seeing as we're in different time zones it's really hard to find out which posts your referring to.( I think mith just put up post count, it's in the header of a post with time/date). It's not a defense because there's nothing to defend against. But then again, i'm meant to be dropping it...

Second post i'll mostly ignore as well

Unvote, Vote Xite

Back to my original Public Enemy No.1
How could you not have seen it, the post is huge and has nice a nice splash of bright red.

[Mirhawk]

With Mirhawk I think I'm possibly being swayed by others rather than thinking for myself but I really don't like the fact that he doesn't like Sleepless making a list as in his sixth post he effectively makes a list like Sleepless did (just in paragraph form) so I'm not sure what his deal with lists is.

My problem isn't with lists in general, but rather with the content of that particular list. Imagine if the mafia had one from every player in the game, they would not only be able to more easily steer towards a mislynch. But they would know who the most trusted people in town were and would be able to target them for nightkills. Granted, a portion of this information could be inferred anyways, but no reason to make it easy for them. Also, the information in my sixth post was requested by Rain.

My top pick is Sleepless Assassin, I'm a little split on my second though.

[Xite91]

Oh that one?
I felt it useless to repost something I already posted AKA my case on you, you're asking me to redo it so you can find holes and call me out on them no?
that's a scumtell most of the time IMO
Also, any other response is for rain to make and well, he's so against the attempt for anyone to "buddy up" with him I figured he could handle it on his own.
Also I typically don't defend other players unless they're %1348197489758943573298675 town in my mind, and that only happens when I know I'm a sane cop and there's no godfathers. Also, I'm pretty sure I said almost guarantee, not just guarantee.

Preview edit: Who are the two candidates?
Why sleepless?
I know him in real life so I'm a little biased on him tbh I know his meta all too well and it just seems like him being him, but if you can present a case to me on his uh 1 post? then I'll take it

[Computing]

Regarding the stuff I said I'd post on Orphen's reaction the variations between what I thought he might say are really just how annoyed he would be, it seems his angry demeanor is limited to being misunderstood and his votes are also limited to when he is misunderstood as well (all two of them).

True as that may be, it is also true that he

chose

to adopt an angry demeanor. Instead of respectfully correcting me if corrections were due, or ask courteous questions, his posts are riddled with passive aggressiveness. Quoting passages to support this claim would extend this wallpost for little reason, so I ask readers to look at his posts in isolation. If I missed some parts where Orphen was civil, please let me know and I'll retract this accusation.

He was civil in responding to my vote:

A joke, but mainly to see how you would react to it? Would you back up what you said previously? Would you make another joke vote after people have been pressuring you to start playing seriously? Would you dare vote me onto L-2 with a joke vote? (Would of worked better if i was already L-2 without the RVS vote)

which is what I was talking about in that quote since I'd never responded to Laterlus asking about what responses I was expecting. It is still slightly hostile but not to the level of most of his other comments. I wasn't commenting on your argument because I thought it had been established that he likes to argue rather than read over posts to try and understand what others are meaning.

Uh, the questions bother me for some reason. Anyone else?

For some reason? I was asking because I didn't know the answers and in I had previously been suspicious of Laterlus who has been replaced so wanted to know what the game mechanics are like in terms of passing information to his successor.

My problem isn't with lists in general, but rather with the content of that particular list. Imagine if the mafia had one from every player in the game, they would not only be able to more easily steer towards a mislynch. But they would know who the most trusted people in town were and would be able to target them for nightkills. Granted, a portion of this information could be inferred anyways, but no reason to make it easy for them. Also, the information in my sixth post was requested by Rain.

Okay, I understand what you're saying, still don't completely agree due to like you said being able to infer it anyway and as he was a replacement it is a good thing to know where he stands on people.

[Xite91]

Okay, computing, you just moved up with rain in the ranks of town for that post.
And in response to my post, that makes a lot of sense, not that it really matters, was there even a night0 in this game?

[Mirhawk]

Preview edit: Who are the two candidates?
Why sleepless?
I know him in real life so I'm a little biased on him tbh I know his meta all too well and it just seems like him being him, but if you can present a case to me on his uh 1 post? then I'll take it

There's more than two, that's why I'm so split.

As for sleepless, I was already suspicious of him from when he was Lateralus. I already mentioned why I don't like his first post, then in his second post his reasoning for essentially skipping almost half the game in his first post was "I was lazy".

Though I admit, some of his comments about you may be a little more pertinent than I had thought if he knows you in real life.

The thing about lists is not a part of my case, I just wanted to mention it.

[Xite91]

Okay, makes sense, but it would actually be helpful for everyone if you made a list of the most scummy people, with least at the bottom and most at the top (only do this for the people that look scummy enough you wanna push a case on them, else it just helps scum)

[Mirhawk]

Perhaps

After sleepless I have Reverse Simplicity. Then Orphan and you.

Vayre Worries me a little too. He hasn't said anything I find suspicious, but he's said so little I don't really have much to analyze.

[Xite91]

I agree on the vayre point.
But what are your cases on the others? (I know sleepless, just not the others)
Do you have anything to add to the cases against me and Orphen?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Well, what do you want me to say? I play to win, and I believe in what I have to say? That's scummy now?

Yeah, clearly my points against you are that you are playing to win and believe what you say. That's definitely it. So scummy.

You didn't even say what posts it was to, so I can't really defend what I was saying.
And yeah, he was at L-2 that's why I said that ISTR

It's not hard to find the posts. I gave the page number.

If I'm not mistaken, Orphen wasn't at L-2 at the time you voted elsewhere.

It's not. I just don't think it's a very good idea. This information seems far more useful to the mafia then to the town.

It's not scummy yet you are voting me?

Also, and response to my post 168?

Okay, so lets start conversation.
Who's the two most scummy to everyone?

Xite and Mirhawk.

With Mirhawk I think I'm possibly being swayed by others rather than thinking for myself but I really don't like the fact that he doesn't like Sleepless making a list as in his sixth post he effectively makes a list like Sleepless did (just in paragraph form) so I'm not sure what his deal with lists is.

Wow, didn't even notice that.

And I have some more questions:
1. Mafia can only talk to each other during the night, right?
2. What happens if a mafia is replaced? Do they get to see what the previous mafia have talked about or talk at all about different play styles they might have from their predecessors?
3. Several people have stated that they think I'm probably town, is this actually a good thing for me or is it liable to get me killed in the night?

1. Generally. It depends on the Mod. I think all newbie games only have night talk though.
2. They get a link to the page scum talk on if the Mod provided one.
3. It depends on your role. If you are vanilla (aka townie), you shouldn't mind being killed in place of a power role. If you are a power role (cop or doctor), then yes, being killed could be bad. Don't change the way you play based on your role though. If your playstyle makes you look town, it's working. Take being NK'd as a compliment.

By the way, that third question puts Comput right in that same category as Rain. He won't be getting my vote in this game.

Uh, the questions bother me for some reason. Anyone else?

The first two are meh. The last one though, looks like an honest thought about being NK'd, which scum wouldn't have to worry about.

then in his second post his reasoning for essentially skipping almost half the game in his first post was "I was lazy".

When you read more than a few pages, it starts to get dull. It just happens. I'm just straight up admitting that rather than make up some kind of excuse like most people would. It has nothing to do with alignment. It's just the way the human mind works.

(only do this for the people that look scummy enough you wanna push a case on them, else it just helps scum)

Seems a bit hypocritical considering you've made your town reads perfectly clear. I disagree with your stance to begin with, but your actions don't really line up with your stance.

[Mirhawk]

It's not scummy yet you are voting me?

Also, and response to my post 168?

That's funny I seem to remember already saying that it has nothing to do with my case on you. In fact I said it in the post that was responding to your post 168. Heck you even acknowledge that post later in your same post for crying out loud.

By the way, that third question puts Comput right in that same category as Rain. He won't be getting my vote in this game.

Ungh would you stop saying that. Its a terribly irresponsible thing to say and it makes my stomach tumble.

When you read more than a few pages, it starts to get dull. It just happens. I'm just straight up admitting that rather than make up some kind of excuse like most people would. It has nothing to do with alignment. It's just the way the human mind works.

Which I might believe if your points on the first pages weren't so detailed. Or how when you reached the end you still had the energy to make not one, but two lists. Or the fact that you have had plenty more time to think about it, but still have no apparent opinion on the latter half of the game. Which in my opinion is the half with the greater wealth of information in it anyways.



@Xite
So I have to not only post a case on my chief suspect, but my next three as well? If I did that not only would this post be three times as long, but the next two game pages would be me having to defend my suspicions from the people they involve.

Also I notice that You haven't posted your top two yet. Mind answering your own question.

[Mirhawk]

@Sleepless

And what exactly is your case against me anyway?

[Nachomamma8]

V/A UNTIL MONDAY.

I HAVE A LOT OF CATCHING UP TO DO TODAY, AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE DOING IT UNTIL MONDAY.

LOVE YOU GUYS,
NACHO

[Xite91]

Mirhawk, you don't have to post a case on all 4 just your basic reason as to why

Sleepless, not I made them clear because they were already clear, you did it too.
Also, Ima pull some wifom and say that if I were scum I wouldn't be saying that, I'd just nk them and be done with it.
But I said that with those two, because I'd prefer they not end up lynched is all.