Mini 964: Another Story - Over!

[yabbaguy]

Vibe: on RealityFan, I'm always looking for possible relationships, and I see hints of buddying between him and RedStar. Otherwise, he looks decently town.

She points out a suspicion here, and it's weak and based on relations between two people she KNOWS aren't scum. Now why would she tell Vibe this? Another mindspinner, but I'm thinking subliminal scum conversation.

Deer - I feel as though he sometimes tends to skim and doesn't answer to the best of his ability. Perk up, Deer! Neutral-barely-leaning-town.

Coaching here. But I look through Paltry, and he spent the entirety of D2 borderline tunnelvisioning on the "Vote Chevre for D2 Lynch!" campaign. It doesn't make one iota of sense why he would be buddies with Chevre. Thief's negative on him N1 amplifies it. I think Chevre's helping Town moreso here.

Going to Vibe again- he just has to talk, period. I want to hear who his scum suspects are.

Also- checking relations: this post had a bizarre, out of nowhere question.

@Chevre: How do you feel about Realityfan? Where would you put him on a 1-10 Scummy Scale, and why?

What prompted you to ask this question A) to Chevre B) about RealityFan? Am I missing something?

Inhibiting vote for now. And hey, Thief might have struck paydirt. Odds of 2/1/9 (1/1/4 now) v. 3/1/8 (2/1/3 now) setup? If Mafia was a duo, then Thief WILL have a definitive result. Vibe's likely Maf due to his informed-sounding demeanor.

If it's 2/1/3, we've already lost control of the vote. If we hit SK then, we actually lose straightaway in that scenario, since we're out of protection and the Mafia would knock the resulting 2/3 down to 2/2 and endgame.

[Thief]

Zerofang went nowhere last night.

[Thief]

I'm surprised Yabba hasn't yet mentioned me and what Chevre's flip means with regard to my alignment.

Apparently we're in LyLo and can't lynch the SK?

This is D3 right?

Oh unbalanced set-ups...how the hell do you sneak through...

[Azelf]

Azelf

: Are the respective kills necessarily done by the same factions?

i.e. You've listed RealityFan and Jalyn as the first kill in their respective death scenes and Empking and Unsight as the second kill. Does that suggest that one faction/person killed RF/Jalyn and the other faction/person killed Emp/Unsight, or is that not necessarily true?

More later when I get home.

Yes. You don't get to find out which faction made which kill, though.

[Pie_is_good]

Where's this 2-1-3 theory coming from? Unless I'm missing something rather obvious, nothing that happened last night would make 2-1-3 any more likely. Strong FoS to Yabba for that one - the only two explanations I can think of are that it's 1-1-4 and he doesn't want ZeroFang to get confirmed innocent, or it's 2-1-3 and he knows this because he's part of the 2.

Of course, assuming Thief's innocence and 1-1-4, there's another good reason to suspect Yabba: Objectively, there are 2 scum among (Yabba, Vibe, Paltry, Me). Since I know my own innocence and am fairly confident in Paltry's, from my perspective that leaves Vibe and Yabba.

[yabbaguy]

Thief getting blocked would yield "No Result" not "nowhere", right? An RB basically becomes an investigation screwer if the latter is true, and I frankly have no idea and no time to do research.

Pie, how do you manage to gleam 1/1/4? Also, aren't Zero and Paltry level on the objective scale if 2/1/3 is potentially possible?

[yabbaguy]

The reason I'm wildly puzzled is because Zero also struck me as a scum read:

I think Chevre's "scum-like tendencies" are nothing more than bad play. I'm in another game with her. This is a cross-game phenomena.

Idly dismisses Chevre's case.

VibeBox - I suspected him at first due to random voting and very aggressive play, but he cooled down post RV. I still suspect him a bit though. He was willing to hang sora (mr. sandman, now filled by me) solely based on inactivity. He also said he wanted pro town points, which I found odd.
ARF: His disappointment in the game and overall concern for the town leads me to believe his claim of vanilla townie.

We'd have to ultimately see Vibe flip first, but this is an interesting switch mid-read.

yabbaguy - He seems like he's just a very aggressive player in general and so I think a lot of his aggression is just his play style. However, he did slip up and use quite a bit of false logic to try and lynch people, so I'm not sure what to think.
ARF: He was quick to try and hammer people with little evidence/reasoning, and seems to be over-enthusiastic about this game. The latter is just an observation.

He states my aggressiveness outright, but as a nulltell. I still believe his accusations as to my hammer baseless, and I think he still has yet to elaborate on that.

Personally, I would have tracked yabba or VB. They've both been active throughout the game, and have both been unnecessarily aggressive at different points throughout the game.

Now aggressiveness is beginning to creep into scumtell territory.

I'm going to change my assessment of VibeBox, actually. After reading over his posts again, I'd put Vibe at the same suspicion/scum level as yabba for exactly the same reasons I suspect yabba.

False association, I think I'm being dragged under the bus with his scumbuddy.

I do believe I've explained my reason for voting Thief several times, and I've explained why It's really hard to believe his claim, yes?

Yes, but you're blocking out our thoughts that setup analysis just HAS to indicate that Thief is pro-Town. Town can't subsist without more than one PR.

Chevre's reread came whilst MrSandman was in the game and doing nothing, so she (understandably) indicated Neutral. Neither him nor sorasgoof really shake my scummy read of him.

Vibe's still rather certain. The fact that ZeroFang drew a blank is very, very puzzling for the reasons I laid out above.

[PaltryExcuse]

@MOD: I'm gonna be V/LA until Monday.

[Pie_is_good]

Pie, how do you manage to gleam 1/1/4? Also, aren't Zero and Paltry level on the objective scale if 2/1/3 is potentially possible?

To be fair, I haven't played or even looked at a significant number of minis recently, but 2/1/3 strikes me as horribly unbalanced, especially with only 2 town PR's. Is a 3/1/8 setup at all commonplace? I'd think we'd need a damn good reason for suspecting three surviving scum.

Zero and Paltry aren't quite on the same level, because it's theoretically possible that Paltry was scum with Chevre and Chevre performed the kill (thus, Paltry was scum and still went nowhere). I find this extremely unlikely based on Paltry's Chevre push yesterday, but it's a possibility.

[Thief]

I was not roleblocker last night. However, Yabba's posts seem more townie trying to decipher this game now that he isn't busy calling me scum.

Vote: VibeBox

I would've tracked him but he was basically absent from the thread so I figured Zero would HAVE to send in the kill for their team.

Or hell maybe Pie's finding scum during the day and shooting town at night. That's better SK play than most people seem to realize on this site (and we all know and love Pie's outside the box thinking)

[yabbaguy]

Are you on the assumption that you will be explicitly told "You receive No Result from your track" if you are Blocked, Thief? I'm concerned that your result is naive, but I frankly don't know what the norm is.

[ZeroFang]

There's a big difference between getting no result and getting a "Person X went nowhere" result. There was no counterclaim to Thief. As much as I dislike that he tracked Deer, I can't deny that there are no other investigative type power roles that claimed. To me it solidifies his case because his read on me was correct (I'm a vanilla townie, it makes sense that I went nowhere), though that's more of a personal evidence for him.

[ZeroFang]

Idly dismisses Chevre's case.

I'd speak more on this but it's related to an ongoing game.

yabbaguy - He seems like he's just a very aggressive player in general and so I think a lot of his aggression is just his play style. However, he did slip up and use quite a bit of false logic to try and lynch people, so I'm not sure what to think.
ARF: He was quick to try and hammer people with little evidence/reasoning, and seems to be over-enthusiastic about this game. The latter is just an observation.

He states my aggressiveness outright, but as a nulltell. I still believe his accusations as to my hammer baseless, and I think he still has yet to elaborate on that.

I believe it a nulltell but still none the less noteworthy. I still think there was no reason to hammer SSBF.

I'm going to change my assessment of VibeBox, actually. After reading over his posts again, I'd put Vibe at the same suspicion/scum level as yabba for exactly the same reasons I suspect yabba.

False association, I think I'm being dragged under the bus with his scumbuddy.

That's not false association. I suspect you two because you both seem(ed) to have the same motives and objectives, and you both justified the same actions with the same reasoning (mostly on the Jag/SSBF wagon). False association would be like if Chevre and I were both on Thief's case for entirely different reasons, but Chevre flipped scum.

I think a re-read of all Chevre's stuff is in order. Now that we know she was scum, we should read all her posts in that light to try and find more. I'll try and get to this tonight.

[Azelf]

VibeBox

: Thief (

L-3

)

Not Voting

: VibeBox, PaltryExcuse, Pie_is_good, yabbaguy, ZeroFang

By the way, in case it matters, whenever I need more than one replacement, I replace people in by alphabetical order.

[Pie_is_good]

I don't have time right now for a full-blown analysis of Chevre, but a quick ISO + cntrl-f of VibeBox and Chevre shows that neither one really commented on the case against the other. I suppose that's a mild scumtell - I feel like it took a pretty conscious effort yesterday to avoid talking about either of those wagons - but at this point I'm just looking to confirm my suspicions.

Oh well. Either way,

Vote: VibeBox

. I'd like to hear Thief confirm a "Tracked To Nowhere" rather than "No Result," and I suppose I wouldn't mind seeing VibeBox/replacement check in for the day, but either way it's going to take something pretty magical to get me to change my mind about Vibe.

[ZeroFang]

I hesitate to put him at L-1 but he's my only good scum lead and yabba's turning things around (I really hope we don't get screwed here).

Vote: VibeBox

[Pie_is_good]

Aside: the thread title seems to think it's still night 2.

[Thief]

Confirmed that he went nowhere last night. I was not roleblocked.

Unvote:

doesn't make that vote any less scummy though....

[Azelf]

VibeBox

: Pie_is_good, ZeroFang (

L-2

)

Not Voting

: Thief, VibeBox, PaltryExcuse, yabbaguy

VibeBox received my prod, but didn't respond to it or show up here. I'll prod him again, and if he doesn't respond to this one I'll replace him.

[yabbaguy]

Post tomorrow. Sorry, I thought I'd be posting today, but an outing which took me by surprise took me away from the computer. :\

[yabbaguy]

I'm

still

trying to see how Zero is Town. I mean, he's L-1'd in scummy fashion, doing it A) way too soon and B) without ISOing Chevre like he promised.

And what still burns a hole in my head is the amorphous scumtells (is aggressiveness a scumtell or just annoying?) and the fact that he rather transparently drops his scum vibes on (*ahem*) Vibe MID-READ.

Now, there's STILL an objective theory which is actually miles more plausible than a naive-result inducing RB: the Ninja. They've shown up in ONE Mini Normal before, but I wouldn't it past Azelf to put something oddball in the setup. We haven't seen evidence of a Blocker (I mean... c'mon, why didn't the CLAIMED TRACKER get Blocked?), so how do you balance a small scumteam against two other parties? Can they subsist off Goon/Goon? Are they three-manned? Or is there a powerrole of some sort that needs to be factored in?

I believe everyone was perfectly capable of submitting an action, and I just don't see what the other Mafia PR would be other than that. To make Mafia that weak would be awful. If Vibe flips a Mafia PR of any sort though, I'll have to reassess.

Frankly, Pie tilts scummy for me as well. He's full-blasters on Vibe (so am I, that's fine), but I also don't see him terribly trying to scumhunt; he seems complacent with blindly following Thief and accepting that Zero isn't an investigation-screwer. Add that to the inaccuracies Jalyn pointed out (the L-2 malarkey didn't help) and you've got yourself really interfering with the process of the game. SK?

It could be 2/1/3. I'm seeing scumminess from multiple players.

[PaltryExcuse]

I don't know how Zero isn't town. In my mind, Zero cannot be SK, I can't be SK, Thief is not SK. SK must lie somewhere in Vibe, yabba, and Pie.

If I remember some MD topic, (I'd have to find it, but currently my internet access is limited), 9-1-2 is much more common than 8-1-3. It makes me lean towards 9-1-2, but this kind of stopped me as I suddenly have the impression yabba knows something about the mod that I don't that would imply odd setups. With 9-1-2, it clears ZeroFang of all guilt, and the ONLY way he is scum is 8-1-3. ZeroFang is likely town in my mind.

but I wouldn't it past Azelf to put something oddball in the setup

I'll be trying to get on as much as possible, but my basement just had a small flood so my access is very much limited (it happened on Canada day weekend ).

@Mod: I'm not voting for VibeBox. Pie is.

If I go on my late day 2 read, I'd be voting Yabba, but I want a more thorough read before I do so. Later peeps.

Herpderp names with P in them

[yabbaguy]

Of all the points aiming at a potential Ninja, you go for the most minute, insignificant one. /:|

All I'm saying is that Azelf is capable of putting something screwy in there. This is just gathering from his unconventional modding style we've observed. *shrug*

[PaltryExcuse]

I have to ask yabba: Are you pushing for a Zero lynch today?

[yabbaguy]

Vibe first, he's far more certain (talk, dammit!). That might actually be rather informative- if he comes up Mafia PR, all my comments of "Mafia's unbalanced blahblahblah" are probably going out the window.

It really could go either way. I swear there was a time in the past where 3/1/8 was the prevailing MN setup, but maybe it is 2/1/9. If Vibe flips Goon though, I'm going to have serious issues with continuing to believe that the Mafia is a plain 2-man team.

You're actually not in favor of a Vibe lynch, not even complacent. Whyyyyyyyyyy thefucknot?