Mini 988 - Small Town Mafia GAME OVER

[DavidParker]

Seems perfectly valid to me :O

[Nachomamma8]

Yo Zach.
If you're going to continually push me without a fully formed case, will you promise me to push the lynch of one of {0xide, Concerned, DavidParker} tomorrow? Preferably 0xide or David, but Concerned is something I could deal with. Like, pretty pretty please?

thats 5 town according to him, DP was confirmed non scum in the night, thats 6 town... really narrows the odds on scum eh?

First of all, that's 5 town.
Second of all, you've failed to disagree with all of my reads.

[Nachomamma8]

Reads:

Zach is town.
One of {Concerned, DavidParker} is scum.
One of {{Jason, 0xide} is scum.
Exilon is town.
Cuet is town.
Antonion is town.
SSBF is town.

I'm vanilla town.
But I want jason to hammer. Just because.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't know what you were trying to say either. Care to explain like a good little townie?

Wish I could, but it's an ongoing game.

And why is Exilon town?

Because you and Jason are scummier.

[DavidParker]

Unvote: nacho

don't like where this is going.

[DavidParker]

I'm kinda new to this site and havn't seen how scum do last ditch efforts to save themselves here, but nacho's seems genuine.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@DavidParker: Not sure why you're believing Nachomamma8 after a Vanilla Townie claim. Is it because you read his post again and thought otherwise or was it because of his claim? A Vanilla Townie claim cannot be verified.

I don't agree with this at all. Both are opportunistic, and bussing is the only one that might be planned for.

How was Nachomamma8's defense of The Butterfly opportunistic? Most of his major posts Day 1 has been defending The Butterfly. There has to be some form of strategic intentions for defending The Butterfly and I honestly doubt it was townie-like. Also, chainsaw defenses are harder to pull off then bussing without people noticing.

I don't know about you, but I play Mafia by the rules, not the exceptions.

And I am willing to consider other possibilities within Mafia.

If only you realized what I was trying to say here...

I think I understand what you were saying pretty fine. I looked through The Butterfly's ISO and he was posting in those games. Therefore, I have proof that this isn't his only game.

You would trust Butterfly's reads if he was town?:

Not take it religiously, that's for sure, but I would at least attempt to see the value in any of the posts.

You said:
Butterfly could be asneaky veteran mafia player.
I said: Does {Link} sound like a veteran to you?
You said: No, but grammar should be the least of his worries. I agree that he has got to improve on his game, but in Mafia, we should be more concerned about his play, not his grammer.

All right, let me explain:

The Butterfly might very well be a veteran mafia player in another site, because he could be used to that style as it everyone else. He probably played horribly here because he isn't used to this style. It's like saying that you're great at retro gaming, but is horrible at current gen gaming.

Chainsaw defense is a stronger tell when a mafia member isn't so far gone. It was apparent that he wasn't going to improve (thus, he wasn't going to survive long), so why would I incriminate myself just to save him for one more day?

The majority of your posts Day 1 was spent defending The Butterfly. You've said numerous times that he was a Village Idiot, which is basically giving a person a pass due to his game play. He was scummy as hell, thus he got lynched, the lynch is his fault. The fact that you attempted to beat back the wagon for him indicates a scum connection between both of you and I will not stop persuding the case until I am 100% proven wrong.

YOU VOTED SOMEONE BECAUSE OF THEIR AVATAR, MEANING YOU'RE OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM. AND DONT SAY THAT IT WAS THE RVS EITHER, OR OTHERWISE YOU'RE JUST MAKING EXCUSES.

The difference between my random vote on jasonT1981 and your fake scum claim is this:
My vote on JasonT1981 was intentionally random with no serious purpose. Your scum claim on the other hand, probably had some form of serious agenda to it. One possible example is to get the game going at the speed we were in at the time.

[0x1de]

Chainsaw defenese is stronger then bussing because of this:
Bussing is simply killing your partner off to gain town creds and to avoid suspicion. Chainsaw defense requires more strategic scum planning and wanting to save your scum partner for another day. Your chainsaw defense on The Butterfly was definently scummy and of course it's noted. Thus it is a stronger connection then bussing.

I don't agree with this at all. Both are opportunistic, and bussing is the only one that might be planned for.

How was Nachomamma8's defense of The Butterfly opportunistic? Most of his major posts Day 1 has been defending The Butterfly. There has to be some form of strategic intentions for defending The Butterfly and I honestly doubt it was townie-like. Also, chainsaw defenses are harder to pull off then bussing without people noticing.

I was talking about your original post (included for clarity) about chainsaw versus bus. The point I was making was that no one in their right mind would plan a chainsaw defence (in advance). On the other hand, planning to bus is quite understandable.

Was Nacho defending Butters? No he wasn't. He held a null-tell stance and was of the opinion that the Butters wagon was a policy lynch. There were enough of us to show that the anti-policy lynch wasn't a scumtell.

One of the things that riles me about Nacho is the fact that he completely avoided a Butters stance. Then he got incredibly defensive when asked about it. You know, the whole thing about 'putting words into my mouth'.

[Exilon]

I don't really like Nacho has a lynch for today. I'd prefer seeing Ox get the noose instead.

It is a null tell since I've had the same resemblant behaviour and now I'm town. So far, that has happened twice - once in this game and once in that game, the problem being that, as scum, the reluctance was there because I was trying to fake town behaviour. In my defense, in that other game, my suspicion on Razorback was quite wavering and it built up. As for Butterfly, the most I've been saying is that he was a good lynch - not really

that

scummy.

[Zachrulez]

Oh, I just saw that Nacho claimed Vanilla.

We can proceed with lynching him now.

[DavidParker]

I unvoted, on re-evaluation I think I should reassess. An ox lynch seems almost as viable.

And i didn't unvote because of his claim alone, his last few posts seem like a genuine defence.

[Concerned]

I feel like Butter's little comment about "Or maybe he's just a helpful townie" regarding exilon is a fairly reliable disclaimer pointing to Exilon being town.

That could be read either way so I really don't see how it's a reliable conclusion.

Yeah, I've given it some thought and you're right it really isn't.

I'm willing to wagon Oxide or DP (ver 2).

[DavidParker]

Vote: nacho

nevermind, ignore my doubts.

[jasonT1981]

And why is Exilon town?

Because you and Jason are scummier.

Sound reasoning...... /sarcasm

But I want jason to hammer. Just because.

It would be my pleasure, but alas, my vote is already on you.

[Cuetlachtli]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=225

WHAT A SCOOP!

Does that reluctance to hammer look familiar?

Well based on that game, I can see how town-Zach would think Ex is scummy in this game. But after a quick skim, I think that game and this game have stark differences.

In this game, Butters put hypo-scum buddy Ex at L-2 on page 1. While in the other game, Razor avoided Ex.

In this game, Ex was one of the first players on the Butters wagon, but unvoted Butters and voted Antonio to try and force him to post more, but claimed that he was still for a Butters lynch. In the other game, Ex was "suspicious" of Razor after he was at L-2/L-1, but gave him "outs" so to speak. In other words, if Razor did X, then Ex wouldn't be suspicious of him. I don't think Ex gave Butters any "outs."



Anyways....

unvote, vote: Nacho

Regardless of the outcome of this lynch, I think we need to look at Ox tomorrow.

[lobstermania]

Day Two Vote Count #4

(as of post # 540)

Cuetlachtli - [0]

Exilon - [0]

Zachrulez - [0]

jasonT1981 - [0]

0x1de - [2]

Exilon, Nachomamma8

Nachomamma8 - [6] Zachrulez, Super Smash Bros. Fan, 0x1de, jasonT1981, DavidParker, Cuetlachtli

Super Smash Bros. Fan - [0]

DavidParker - [0]

Concerned - [0]

Antonio - [0]

Not Voting - [2]

Antonio, Concerned
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch....


Coming down off the high from the previous day's lynch, everyone seemed confident in their arguments and their actions. The consensus seemed to be that Nachomamma8 was also responsible for the recent deaths in your tiny, secluded town. The pire was set up again, and everyone was excited. Everyone except Nachomamma8.
When the flames died down, there was nothing to be found among his belongings to actually incriminate him with.
It turns out Nachomamma8 was not yo' scum.

Nachomamma8

- TOWN - Lynched Day Two

It is now Night Two. Due to

The World Cup

Fourth of July

my Horoscope, you have 96 hours to PM me your night actions, if you have any. Day Three will begin by 11am (PST) on Wednesday, July 7th.

[lobstermania]

Millar13 replaces Antonio, starting immediately

[lobstermania]

The sun rose on the third morning and almost everyone gathered again at the town fountain. But where was 0x1de? You decided to search his house and workshop as a group. 0x1de had been the town carpenter, and (as was fitting with the gruesome murders going on) had been chopped up and then hammered and nailed back together into a nightstand. There was a bullet hole in the middle of 0x1de's forehead. With the population dwindling, the town hoped it would only increase their chances of finding the scum.

0x1de - TOWN - Killed Night Two

It is now Day Three. With eight people alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

[DavidParker]

FIRSTLY, what's with all the scummy town players dying during night phases? first david parker (v.1) and now ox1de????

Alright, doing a re-skim of the game. (mostly day 1)

Stuff that stands out:

Exilon - TOWN read. Butterfly laid it out for us when he bandwagoned the early exilon wagon: #23. Still could be possible third party.

SSBF - Post 33: Ignores butterfly's role fishing.

Jason - TOWN read. Points out butterfly's role fishing. However, didn't vote on it. butterfly also "clears" him post 222.

With regard to post 222, butterfly's other suspect is antonio. It's quite possible he included 1 scum in his list, and that'd be antonio if he did.

zach - TOWN read. Can say to almost 100% certainty he is not scum, cant be bothered with mass quoting to prove it etc.. some communication with butterfly early on. MOstly meaningless. Defends butterfly slightly.

SSBF -#75 Suggests a possible connection between you and butterfly.

Concerned: Post 83, defends butterfly, but comes off as town while doing it. Various posts give me a town read for concerned.

cuet: scum read - seems a bit too sure that butterfly will flip scum.. Interesting post: #368. If cuet flips scum like i think he will, can safely clear concerned as well (david parker (version 1) and nacho were both town).

Basically, cuet says if butterfly is scum, those 3 ppl should be looked at. 2 flipped town upon death. 1 is giving me a town vibe. seems to be some major misdirection. Also, jason is still alive (the one who insists cuet is town). If you're scum and a player insists you are town, you sure as hell dont kill off that player. And jason has been very pro-town all game.

Note: butterfly at one points make excuses FOR antonio not posting.. Possible connection pointed out by Jason.

I skimmed day 2 (really briefly atm, i'm a bit zonked, but i just got this vibe that its a bunch of town players arguing)

Conclusion:
cuet scum.
ssbf possible scum.
zach/exilon both i can say almost definitely not scum with butterfly
jason/concrned both seem pro town and im leaning that way
antonio neutral.


VOTE: Cuet

[Cuetlachtli]

cuet: scum read - seems a bit too sure that butterfly will flip scum.. Interesting post: #368. If cuet flips scum like i think he will, can safely clear concerned as well (david parker (version 1) and nacho were both town).

Basically, cuet says if butterfly is scum, those 3 ppl should be looked at. 2 flipped town upon death. 1 is giving me a town vibe. seems to be some major misdirection. Also, jason is still alive (the one who insists cuet is town). If you're scum and a player insists you are town, you sure as hell dont kill off that player. And jason has been very pro-town all game.

Hey DP, don't you think its odd that half of my scum suspects died during the night? Why would hypo-scum Cuet kill off his scum suspects during the night? Who do you suppose hypo-scum Cuet is going to strawman during the day when all that's left is pro-town players?

[Zachrulez]

cuet: scum read - seems a bit too sure that butterfly will flip scum.. Interesting post: #368. If cuet flips scum like i think he will, can safely clear concerned as well (david parker (version 1) and nacho were both town).

Basically, cuet says if butterfly is scum, those 3 ppl should be looked at. 2 flipped town upon death. 1 is giving me a town vibe. seems to be some major misdirection. Also, jason is still alive (the one who insists cuet is town). If you're scum and a player insists you are town, you sure as hell dont kill off that player. And jason has been very pro-town all game.

Hey DP, don't you think its odd that half of my scum suspects died during the night? Why would hypo-scum Cuet kill off his scum suspects during the night? Who do you suppose hypo-scum Cuet is going to strawman during the day when all that's left is pro-town players?

In Newbie 859... you actually did exactly that when you killed Haylen.

[Zachrulez]

That said, I generally dislike Parker's post.

[Cuetlachtli]

Hey DP, don't you think its odd that half of my scum suspects died during the night? Why would hypo-scum Cuet kill off his scum suspects during the night? Who do you suppose hypo-scum Cuet is going to strawman during the day when all that's left is pro-town players?

In Newbie 859... you actually did exactly that when you killed Haylen.

And how did that turn out for me? Not that well huh? Don't you think hypo-scum Cuet would learn from his mistakes?

[Cuetlachtli]

After Day 1, I had Foobert's slot as town. I think DP is falling for the scum's trap.

[DavidParker]

i just posted my thoughts as they came to me upon rereading the past few days happening.

And i think it's more than likely one of my "pro-town" players is in fact scum.


Also, just a note for those who forgot: I replaced foobert day 2.