Mini 964: Another Story - Over!

[yabbaguy]

EBWOP: ...don't appear in favor or complacent with said lynch.

[PaltryExcuse]

I want to lynch a scum target today. End of. If it is 3-1-8, town's already in deep, and we need to hope for crosskilling + mafia lynch.

Your question to Azelf at the beginning of this day has me intrigued however. What did you hope to gain by asking it?

@Mod: If PR/Mafia/SK have a night action but don't submit, are their actions compulsive (as in you choose the target randomly instead)?

^^
Depending on the mod's answer, I could change my view of VibeBox. If it's not obvious, I think he's flaked and if he has (and night actions don't go through) that takes another out of the running in my 9-1-2 scenario. (It'd weed things down to yabba and Pie for a lynch for me.)

I still have a town read on Vibe that has faltered with new information, but nothing that compels me to jump wholeheartedly on the wagon.

[Azelf]

As you would have known if you had

read the first post in the thread

, a power role that doesn't send in their PM will do nothing.

[Thief]

Yabba is most likely the Serial Killer which would explain his scumminess yet scumhunting and lack of connections with Chevre.

[Thief]

But we have to lynch scum today.

[Pie_is_good]

Sorry, I'm back. 4th of July weekend, etc.

blah blah blah Zero is scum

Look, I felt pretty confident that Zero was scum too, but the conspiracy theorism about his guilt is getting fairly ridiculous. I mean, I had to wiki Ninja, and that's your frontrunner for "best rational explanation."

Yabba's done this before ("Thief is a mafia tracker") but I'm having trouble coming up with a great justification for it. Objectively, the pool of Lynchables has shrunk to myself, Yabba, and Vibe. Yabba, as scum, would be forced to either expand the pool of lynchables (by dragging Zero back into it) or reverse his town read on me to make sure I get lynched first. That's basically exactly what's happening.

To respond briefly to the actual attack:

Frankly, Pie tilts scummy for me as well. He's full-blasters on Vibe (so am I, that's fine), but I also don't see him terribly trying to scumhunt; he seems complacent with blindly following Thief and accepting that Zero isn't an investigation-screwer.

Sorry - you're accusing

me

of blindly following

Thief

to the Vibebox wagon?

SK?

Why would I, as an SK, want to irrationally accept Zero's innocence? The only way this argument makes any sense is if you're accusing me of being 8-3-1 scum with Zero and Chevre, which 1) assumes 8-3-1, which is unlikely; 2) assumes Zero is an investigation-screwer, which is unlikely; and 3) makes me a worse lynch than Zero, since my guilt is dependent on his.

[Azelf]

VibeBox

has been

kicked out of the game

and will be replaced.

[yabbaguy]

There's really no motivation if I were scum of either faction to find more people scummy than necessary. Even a solitary Mafioso, I believe, could subsist of two mislynches, same for SK. I'm finding three people scummy: Vibe, Zero, and now you. I think a lot of it hinges on Vibe's flip- if he flips Goon, believe me, I

will

bring up the argument of what powerrole could POSSIBLY be left in the game. I'm having issues believing an RB, per se, exists (and there WAS a Mafia kill, to forego any Block would be wasteful). It just makes no sense. If he does flip PR, that's Another Story. *rimshot, groan*

I suppose the burning question on everyone's minds is why in blazes I keep screaming "Mafia shenanigans" every time someone's merrily on their way to being confirmed. The reason why is because I haven't seen outright evidence of what the last Mafia PR is. As long as that's the case, it's anyone's guess, and to ignore it is criminal. That's why I refuse to cut options out of my pool so easily, not because I'm looking for mislynches, but because I hate falling into setup traps that could cause the game to be out of reach for Town.

Re: following Thief, no, I'm saying that when Thief claimed a negative on Zero, you didn't even dabble into the possibility of what it could mean (and that's what you bring up in your last paragraph, too). Especially if Vibe flips Mafia, there's no damned way you're Mafia yourself, so all this malarkey about me wanting to suddenly make you the D3 lynch is patently absurd.

Also, I knew Ninja off-hand. Possible doesn't always stop where your naivete starts. That has nothing to do with it.

Meanwhile, can't wait to

finally

hear something from Vibe's slot.

[yabbaguy]

...Paltry's post. Yowza.

Fundamental problem with your question, Paltry, we

did

have a Mafia kill. Whoever was killing was around. Vibe picked up the prod PM, so he clearly is. You don't, as Mafia, kill and then waste a block with two antagonizing powerroles in play.

I asked the question to Azelf simply to leave the route of NK analysis open. I attempted it afterwards, but that didn't yield anything, so I gave up on it.

[Pie_is_good]

So, Yabba, you're finding me scummy for being unwilling to lynch Zero due to Thief's result. I'm finding you scummy for the exact opposite reason (wanting to consider Zero as a lynch target despite Thief's result). So I guess it boils down to this:

There's really no motivation if I were scum of either faction to find more people scummy than necessary.

...which is just not true. Of course there's a good reason for scum within this small pool of potential guilties to drag more people into it. I'm very curious to hear what you think the scum motivation for discounting Zero as a lynch target is.

[Thief]

There's really no motivation if I were scum....

Unvote:
Vote: Yabba

Oh look who was right D1.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

[Azelf]

VibeBox

: Pie_is_good, ZeroFang (

L-2

)

Yabbaguy

: Thief (

L-3

)

Not Voting

: VibeBox, PaltryExcuse, yabbaguy

[yabbaguy]

No, Pie I think the laziness also shows in the way you wagonned on Chevre as well (weaseling your way on board). Like:

ISO-12:

2) Chevre lynch wouldn't make me cry - I recall being suspicious of her day 1 for something or another.

Soft suspicion. Granted, ISO-1 had a suspicion, but only "shirking attention" was listed.

ISO-19:

Speaking of which, does anyone else find it odd that Chevre chose Unsight over ZeroSand?

I wouldn't expect you to be the sort to ask before casting suspicion.

and then ISO-21 the vote.

Generically, you've basically had an attitude of idly pointing fingers in the third-person "Yeah, he's not doing favors, she's scummy for this" without doing a massive amount of questioning. Yes there's some, but it's mostly first-person anecdotes laid down idly, save for Vibe who you've been assured about all along and have pursued a bit more. But you didn't really question him either, maybe you questioned us about "C'mon, why ain't he scummy?", but never him. Suggests a lack of *serious* scumhunting that could potentially get you killed. Yes, we look at your ISO and say, "ooh, big posts, some egotism even", but there's less to it than meets the eye.

I cant' believe it took me a while to deduce this, but Zero being *SK* Ninja is patently absurd, it ain't Paltry, Vibe suggests Mafia more, it ain't Thief, and it sure as hell ain't me. You are the only suspect. Process of Elimination, you've done it again!

@Thief: Click.

[Pie_is_good]

"Weaseling my way on board the Chevre wagon?" Let's have a look.

Me first:

-Mild scum read on Chevre. Did anyone else notice how, when "accused" of activity, she defended it like it was a legit attack? Made me that, on some level, she's actively trying to shirk attention.

This was from my initial catchup post when I replaced in. It was the first time anyone had voiced suspicion of Chevre about anything.

2) Chevre lynch wouldn't make me cry - I recall being suspicious of her day 1 for something or another.

(In response to Paltry's big ol' accusation of Chevre)

Speaking of which, does anyone else find it odd that Chevre chose Unsight over ZeroSand? [...] Accordingly, sustained FoS: Chevre

An independent point. You interpreted this as me asking for permission to find people scummy. I find it fairly obvious that I wasn't, especially considering the outright FoS you failed to quote two sentences later.
And now the vote:

I'm a vanilla townie.

Unvote, Vote: Chevre

I really dislike that VibeBox slipped the spotlight by lurking, but I would really dislike a no lynch even more.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now you.
Starts with two passing quotes day one that could be interpreted as mild suspicion. No more analysis of Chevre's play until this:

Chevre- tilting scummy (not sure which). She very readily accepts bandwagons at very inopportune times, and is a tad overly conservative on her scumhunting.

Then:

Thief is contriving, seeing as he called Chevre's L-1 vote rubbish, and that's it. It could be a bus (can't tell entirely), so it's null to Chevre and more scumminess to Thief.

PaltryExcuse has points I agree with more, in the fact that Chevre hadn't taken one single clear stance throughout her reread. It still doesn't make me very, very confident in her scumminess, so it's a weak scumread, but I think Paltry has Town motives nevertheless.

...waffling between defense and attack.

I also don't find a terrible amount of relations between Chevre and Vibe as I delve through, so I'm starting to veer away from Chevre being Mafia. Again, Chevre could be SK (Jalyn makes little sense for SK now), but I'd much rather have a Maf lynch, and I think Vibe and Thief would be the best bet. I think lynching Vibe, considering the relations between him and other players is what I'm most fascinated by, would be smartest. If I'm wrong, then I discard the Chevre-link theory, go for Thief, and then maybe her later.

An outright

defense

of Chevre.

Unvote, Vote: Chevre to hammer as promised. No time zone given, so I really haven't a choice here- it's just unnecessary to squeeze that extra day in the Day and risk the No Lynch on what really is a randomly timestamped deadline, if you get my drift.

And there's the hammer.

Not counting the brief mentions in your first few posts, you attack Chevre twice and defend her twice. I pretty much attack her consistently. We both voted her for the same reason: we prefered a Vibebox lynch but wanted someone to die before deadline. Now, I'm not saying your handling of the Chevrewagon was criminal, but it was a hell of a lot more waffly then mine. I

would

be willing to say this attack on me reflects poorly on your townliness.

In regards to your point about me not really questioning people, I'm pretty sure a large part of this game centered around a string of Vibebox questioning. I'm not going to dig that up because I think most of us remember.

[Thief]

If it's between Pie and Yabba we got this wrapped up.

Pie, vote accordingly.

[Thief]

Unsight was probably killed by the SK because she suspected him.

Yabba killed the doc.

[yabbaguy]

@Pie: Yeah, but I still don't think it was committal wording. Even a vote doesn't make it entirely strong, your wording was still along the lines of "yeah kinda", "yeah maybe", and just riding the coattails of Paltry's case.

On the other hand, I at least tried to weigh the possibilities. And that "outright defense" you're claiming is just me weighing the possibilities of Chevre-Vibe being buddied (granted, I misweighed them, I missed that blatantly random question from Vibe -> Chevre that tipped me off)

@Thief: AH. We're snagging on terminology here:

Yabba is most likely the Serial Killer which would explain his scumminess yet scumhunting and lack of connections with Chevre.

But we have to lynch scum today.

And when I said, no incentive "if I'm scum", Thief thought I slipped by saying "LOOK WORLD, I'M MAFIA!"

No, I've always used scum as a supercategory of Mafia and SK. When I made this post:

Chevre- tilting scummy (not sure which). She very readily accepts bandwagons at very inopportune times, and is a tad overly conservative on her scumhunting.
MrSandman- blank read. I'd like to think he's pro-Town, esp. with sorasgoof's flake-out, but really, I haven't any idea.
PaltryExcuse (Deer)- Town. The only situation where he's scum is if Thief is Town and Mafia didn't use him. Other than that, despite Deer's lackadaisical behavior, I think he's been a good contributor himself.
Pie_is_Good- Town. Interesting to note that he's the first one to offer suspicions on Vibe, but he was pretty much begging and pleading for them. While again, he's suggested sub-optimal Town play, his heart truly is in the right place. *sniffle, audience awws*
Red Star- Not Mafia, but tilting SK. Pro-Town at times, but then pretty much fell off the map. Hasn't done much that is abrasive, but really, I can't find the tells anywhere else.
Thief- Mafia, still. He basically does every blatant suspicion-dodging trick one can think of.
Unsight- tilting Town. Cyanide was mildly scummy when he was in, and Unsight sounds like she knows what she's talking about, but also decided on SSBF rather quickly and over one point. No concrete scumtells from what I gather, really.
VibeBox- Mafia. Sounds extremely informed when he cross-defends other players. Some of my suspicions even hinge on him being scum, so he really should be first in line for a lynch.

Notice how I call Vibe Mafia and Chevre "scummy- not sure which".

I think that's the more universally accepted terminology, besides.

[Pie_is_good]

@Pie: Yeah, but I still don't think it was committal wording. Even a vote doesn't make it entirely strong, your wording was still along the lines of "yeah kinda", "yeah maybe", and just riding the coattails of Paltry's case.

I'm still confused about what you think is suspicious about my wording. Is your argument that I am mafia with Chevre, and therefore made waffly-sounding accusations towards her with the intention of going back on them if a Chevre lynch ever came afoot? If so, that's a) terrible scum play, and b) disproven by the fact that, when a Chevre lynch did come afoot, I (eventually) hopped on it.

And "riding the coattails of Paltry's case" doesn't fact check; >50% of my reasons for being okay with a Chevre lynch were stated before Paltry's big ol' case.

If it's between Pie and Yabba we got this wrapped up.

Pie, vote accordingly.

When did we rule out Vibe?

Unvote, Vote: Yabba

; by PoE I'm willing to lynch either and I'd be more than happy to switch back.

[PaltryExcuse]

Whoa, my basement floods and this game dies save Pie and yabba... two whom I would be willing to vote for. I'm still convinced the two killers the night previous were Pie and Yabba. It has been a matter of deciphering who is SK and who is Mafia. In case of the 8-1-3 possibility, it is imperative we hit mafia, so I'm going to look at Chevre closer.

Just on a IIRC-basis: I don't remember Yabba even mentioning Chevre in any form before I entered, and I think Pie called her scummy. This makes me think Yabba is more likely Mafia and should be today's lynch. Be back soon.

[yabbaguy]

Pie, unless the denominator's low as well, I only count two remarks you made prior to Paltry's post:

-the one on your reread "weak scumread"
-the "I wouldn't cry about Chevre's lynch" remark

I'm having the fact issue as well.

Waffly wording can come from SK as well. It's as simple as that. I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER called you Mafia. If I did, well, I'm still more sure about Vibe, but I'd be considering voting you. The fact you keep twisting it into that is ridiculous.

The pool of SKs is objectively you or me Pie (unless, y'know, we have SK Ninjas ). If I'm lying, I'm SK. There is a

0% chance I'm Mafia

, so the fact you lot are voting me is absolutely absurd. We need a Mafia lynch.

Vote: VibeBox

Please, everyone. I implore you. I am about to be lynched based on suboptimal strategy (notwithstanding flawed reads), and I would be absolutely aggravated if I am. Are you forgetting how scummy Vibe was at the outset? He's the Mafia. I'm not bussing. I CANNOT be Mafia.

[PaltryExcuse]

yabbaguy & Chevre:

Chevre- I demand you reread. There's so much more you can infer from 5 pages. Don't you think Thief's case on me is contrived to the point of scumminess? What else?

This is possible coaching.

Chevre: I don't see much activity coming from her in this game.

Ridiculous. Chevre, me, and at most 2 other people were the ONLY people posting at one point.

From what I can tell, it was a very short time span, and there have been more series of posts where Chevre remained silent rather than vocal.

Otherwise, there's not much.

Pie is next on the agenda.

[yabbaguy]

To be clear:

Pie- my only plausible SK suspect remaining. Absolutely not Mafia.
Paltry- confirmed town
Thief- confirmed town
Vibe- likely Mafia, only the slimmest of SK probabilities.
Zero- possibly Mafia (planning on analyzing after Vibe's flip). SK Ninja is abNormal.

[yabbaguy]

@Chevre: How do you feel about Realityfan? Where would you put him on a 1-10 Scummy Scale, and why?

A question out of nowhere from the early game. That's BLATANT public scum discussion.

[PaltryExcuse]

Pie only mentions her twice, both in his second post.
Firstly, when giving his overall reads, and then the ending summary.

-Mild scum read on Chevre. Did anyone else notice how, when "accused" of activity, she defended it like it was a legit attack? Made me that, on some level, she's actively trying to shirk attention.
.
.
.
Chevre is scum for shirking attention.

This is not wiffle-waffle or anything of that sort. Chevre is flat-out accused by Pie.

Looking at Vibe in the last post, and then a summary.

[yabbaguy]

God, I hope Paltry is seeing the simulpost alarms.