A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Unsight]

I was in the middle of a post when I hit preview to find the thread locked for the event. I saved my post in a text file somewhere so I'm going to go find it. Expect something soon-ish.

[Unsight]

And how do you feel about Dana, or vezo Unsight?

Life is good as I have free time again. Let me look at the dana wagon...

Percy - Percy's note that danakillsu was attempting to derail the Raivann wagon the most is spot-on. Drippereth is a close second with LMP coming in third.
Thor665 - Basically ditto's Percy.
Mikujin - Also ditto's Percy.
Axelrod - Similar to Percy's case but also points out flippage on RichardGHP (similar to LynchMePls actually).
RichardGHP - Reasonless vote. I have this theory that scum hunting ceases the moment someone becomes obv town...
xvart - xvart is great. He spotted what almost looks like a scumslip by danakillsu's ISO 15.
LynchMePls - This is the guy who raised danakillsu in his first post. Votes to "get some team cohesion going" but has been spending his time making SSBF and CSL cases. Can someone say "BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS!"
Vezokpiraka - No reasoning? Why is Vezo voting dana?
Benmage - Again no reasoning. Why is Benmage voting dana?
CSL - Votes to see if he's telling the truth about his claim. What?

It's really easy to see the people actually putting a case forward versus the blatant wagon-ers especially toward the end.

I will support a danakillsu lynch, but not until the last 3 people explain what they're doing and why. Also, LMP is still scum.


Vezo is uber anti-town. He's just awful. I'd mention the p word but there are very scummy people who need lynching first.

[Thor665]

@ Thor
Of course you don't get what I'm driving at, you want me lynched. Fair enough. I know you're smart enough to see what I'm saying.

You overestimate me - I am an idiot and have an odd fungal growth on my feet.

There are roughly eight people who also don't seem to be "getting" what you're driving at. Is it not worth explaining it so as to show why you're not the lynch today? As far as I can tell your defense is that we don't know 100% that you're scum - this is not a good defense. If it's something else feel free to clue me in anytime.

Also, I did ask you who were your top suspects and reasons why. You either missed that question or chose to ignore it. I'll ask it again - if we shouldn't lynch you who should we lynch and why? I'd love to see your top three suspects and reasoning right now.

[Thor665]

It's really easy to see the people actually putting a case forward versus the blatant wagon-ers especially toward the end.

I will support a danakillsu lynch

Pot, meet kettle.

Vezo is uber anti-town. He's just awful. I'd mention the p word but there are very scummy people who need lynching first.

A yes or no question - do you find vezo scummy?

[Unsight]

"Pot, meet kettle."

Not really. The only thing I would have added to the discussion was added by xvart (the oddity in ISO 15).

"A yes or no question - do you find vezo scummy?"

If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.

[diddin]

So, I just did a major read and still need a little bit of time for it all to gather in my head, but for now, I have scum reads on both Dana and SSBF, moreso on Smash.

One thing I noticed that was odd was a bit of a change in playstyle between Dippereth early D1 and Dippereth today and late yesterday. I had a strong town read on them initially, but it almost seems as if they are coasting on everyone believing they are town. To Dippereth: was one of your two heads doing the majority of the posting early in Day 1? I haven't been in a game with either DGB or Elleb so I wouldn't know any difference in playstyle.

It's 1 AM right now, I am going to ISO Smash tomorrow to see if I can do anything to supplement the current case on him.

[Thor665]

If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.

Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then? You go out of your way to bring him up, describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently not finding him scummy, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. If there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?

[Benmage]

Percy's note that danakillsu was attempting to derail the Raivann wagon the most is spot-on.
------------------------------------------
Again no reasoning. Why is Benmage voting dana?
------------------------------
I will support a danakillsu lynch, but not until the last 3 people explain what they're doing and why. Also, LMP is still scum.

I'll take some of that "spot-on" from Percy, reworded and added with some fluff... Does that suffice?

[hasdgfas]

It's really easy to see the people actually putting a case forward versus the blatant wagon-ers especially toward the end.

would you rather the "blatant wagoners" made a case that was exactly the same as someone else's?

[LimMePls]

Also, LMP is still scum.

Also you are still wrong. I asked you a question the last time you posted about me that you still haven't answered. Please do.

[MagnaofIllusion]

ATTENTION UNSIGHT –

You seem perfectly willing to ignore questions directly put to you. While you are addressing whatever open questions LMP has for you also please comment and answer regarding the following –

You’ve already previously indicated you think Percy and DripHydra were buddying scum at your ISO 8 and infer that SSBF also is a scum partner to Drip at ISO 10. At ISO 21 you apparently reverse course on Percy being a DripHydra scum-partner and praise Percy’s case as something you would support Drip’s lynch based on. You haven’t mentioned LynchMe before this post at all. You’ve stated on multiple occasions that you suspect Drip to be scum. Why didn’t you vote Drip based on your longstanding suspicion based on this paring? Especially given the suspicion his slot has drawn from multiple other sources.

On to other issues -

That doesnt even make sense...If you thought CSL is a mafia PR, wouldnt you prefer he be dead?

You specifically go out of your way here to not answer the question presented to you.

1. Why were you surprised at the Wounding’s “weak effects” when they were clearly presented in the Mod’s post?
2. Why ask the second question, as it’s anything but rhetorical. Of course people would want a Scum PR dead. Why does suspicion of CSL as a potential Mafia PR eliminate the possibility that dana is a potential Mafia PR? Isn’t it a wise move by Town to potentially neuter a second scum PR while lynching another?

I didn't stab CSL... I believed his claim. Nor dana, cause he should be lynched.

Ok, who did you stab then?

Your use of my choice of Drippereth as an argument against me is poor. He is obviously from my posts the player I consider most town, so I would want to protect him. If I was scum, I would have a fakeclaim of Tulley, Jailkeeper, and would have to give someone's name, so I would give the name of the player whom I had called a townie the most, which is the same person. So either way, I would say the same thing. How does saying it make me scummier?

Stating that I think you are role-fishing with your choice of DripHydra isn’t an argument it’s an observation. And everything after the first sentence is a large, pointless WIFOM exercise. I’m not using it as ‘further’ evidence against you … the evidence against you has been stated repeated in the thread and repeatedly hand-waved by you.

If anything my observation might strengthen a Town read on DripHydra for me based on what I see as your rolefishing. Assuming of course you are scum as I suspect.

[vezokpiraka]

I stabbed dana.
I forgot CSL claimed Vanilla.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

and because his reasons for voting for me are horrible.

Excuse me? I never voted for you once, despite expressing suspicious of you. Where in the world did you get that from?

Can you clarify what sort of connection you mean regarding DripHydra and Mina? I’m confused as to whether you think Mina is bussing Drip or if you mean something else.

I was meaning something else entirely. I was talking about the connection between Drippereth and Raivann.

dana, I see a hint of AtE in your post.

Hypocrisy much? You've been guilty of multiple accounts of AtE ToDay.

Ok, I have a proposal then.

We kill dana today, you can have at me tomorrow.

But you will still be wrong.

Also, I stabbed dana.

You're actually that willing to let yourself be lynched Tomorrow in favor of a danakillsu's lynch? Saying you'll sacerfice yourself is not a pro-town statement.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

Not only is Mina's case the most believeable to me (Mainly about explanation the connection between Raivann and CSL), ToDay, he has done absolutely nothing productive to the town. Instead, he goes on to make an unecessary claim at L-10, uses AtE multiple times, and shows that he doesn't care about the town much.

[vezokpiraka]

dana is clearly scum.
the only way CSL got wounded is because people from dana's scum team stabbed him. This just proves that dana is scum.

[Rifka Viveka]

You specifically go out of your way here to not answer the question presented to you.

1. Why were you surprised at the Wounding’s “weak effects” when they were clearly presented in the Mod’s post?
2. Why ask the second question, as it’s anything but rhetorical. Of course people would want a Scum PR dead. Why does suspicion of CSL as a potential Mafia PR eliminate the possibility that dana is a potential Mafia PR? Isn’t it a wise move by Town to potentially neuter a second scum PR while lynching another

1. What makes you think i was surprised?
2. WTF

Yours and xvarts questions look like questions asked for the sake of asking questions.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1. What makes you think i was surprised?

After reviewing your original post I’ll say surprised is not the correct word. You wrote -

I stabbed CSL,he claimed VT. I was just bummed when i saw the stabs weak effects, it would have been a cool mechanic as a instant-kill

MOD specifically stated THE EXACT effects in his post. Why even post that you were bummed and that it would be a cool instant-kill mechanic? It obviously wasn’t.

Your statement adds nothing to the game and is just active-lurking filler.

2. WTF

Yours and xvarts questions look like questions asked for the sake of asking questions.

Your inability to answer simply stated questions looks like scum too afraid to they will out themselves. Seriously … repeatedly dodging direct questions is scummy.

FOS – Rifka

[Rifka Viveka]

MOD specifically stated THE EXACT effects in his post. Why even post that you were bummed and that it would be a cool instant-kill mechanic? It obviously wasn’t.

Your statement adds nothing to the game and is just active-lurking filler.

Id be interested in hearing your argument why a person could get stabbed 10-20 times and only lose his ability\vote for the day. It looked like a free lynch until i kept reading.

2. Why ask the second question, as it’s anything but rhetorical. Of course people would want a Scum PR dead. Why does suspicion of CSL as a potential Mafia PR eliminate the possibility that dana is a potential Mafia PR? Isn’t it a wise move by Town to potentially neuter a second scum PR while lynching another?

This itself, is filler posting in the same vein you accuse me of. The third sentence leaves me at a loss for words, im not even sure where this comes from.

[Benmage]

I'll be away today and most of tomorrow.

[danakillsu]

dana is clearly scum.
the only way CSL got wounded is because people from dana's scum team stabbed him. This just proves that dana is scum.

Um... what? What makes you think that I would stab CSL if I was scum? And I said I stabbed SSBF, so I certainly didn't SAY I stabbed CSL. I really don't see this at all.
@Thor
Top suspects in my next post.
@ SSBF
Apparently, you are correct. I'm glad you caught that. I thought that vezok's vote on me was part of your post, which was directly before it. Go and look at his vote, and you'll at least kind of understand why I made that mistake.

unvote

[danakillsu]

Number 1 scum: vezokpiraka
Votes for Raivann, unvotes him because of his claim, even though he thinks it's fake, then votes for someone else, while saying Raivann's still probscum but he might be wrong. Wow.

Vote: Vezokpiraka

Number 2 scum: Cow
Calls Raivann scum multiple times but never votes for him. Active lurker.
Number 3 scum: I doubt it
Votes for Raivann, unvotes him because of his claim, even though he doesn't really think the claim makes sense later.

[xvart]

dana is clearly scum.
the only way CSL got wounded is because people from dana's scum team stabbed him. This just proves that dana is scum.

So you think Percy, Thor, LychMePlz, Rifka Viveka, MagnaofIllusion, and Mikujin (maybe) are all on dana's scum team?

If I was scum, I would have a fakeclaim of Tulley, Jailkeeper, and would have to give someone's name, so I would give the name of the player whom I had called a townie the most, which is the same person. So either way, I would say the same thing. How does saying it make me scummier?

WIFOM much? Once again, similar outcomes by scum and town does not make you auto-town. If anything, you agree that your claim is easily likely to be a scum fakeclaim.

Also, LMP is still scum.

Please provide more information or link to the place where this case is presented or made obvious.

However, the things I have said are NOT inconsistent. I thought Raivann was scummy, but didn't make that very obvious. I asked everyone why they were voting for him INSTEAD of Kleedrac, with the implication that Kleedrac was a better lynch. The responses I got convinced me that Raivann was scummier than I originally thought.

So what does that say now that Kleedrac/Budja flipped town and Raivann flipped scum?

xvart.

[MacavityLock]

Sorry, 4th weekend messed me up quite good, and I need to catch up.

Bullying? Are you joking? I'm telling people who aren't voting that they should use there vote. I'm asking for more participation, and I'm saying that if they have a logical reason to be on a wagon other than the two obv scum that they present a case to us so we can evaluate it.

Let me paraphrase what you said: "Get on one of these two wagons or explain why you're not." That's trying to push people on to one of those two wagons, and it doesn't sit well with me.

What does "we're not at that point in the day yet" even mean? At what point in the day is it no longer acceptable for people to be not voting? Seems to me like 1 week in is pretty late to be holding on to your vote. Please inform me when it's acceptable for me to ask non-voters to please use there votes. Cause I'll do it then. I see nothing wrong with my asking for participation, or the way in which I asked for it. SSBF and dana are obv scum. If people aren't voting them, then I say they should tell us why. If they have a better candidate, then I say now is the time to provide it.

3 things here:
1) There's no such thing as obv-scum unless caught by role info or a scum claim. (That is, unless you're scum-buddies with someone.)
2) I've withheld a vote as town for a goodly while. In fact, a large amount of discussion in the predecessor AGoT game centered around me having withheld voting for a while, and yes, I flipped town. Not voting is not a scumtell.
3) The "point in the day" I'm talking about is the point at which deadline is approaching and people need to get aboard some wagon to ensure a lynch. "Get on one of these two wagons" is totally reasonable at that point. A week and a half before deadline, that is entirely unnecessary.

Also, ML's attack on LynchMePls feels contrived. I read LMP's comments on the SSBF/dana slots as encouraging attention on the two slots, not dissuading attention from others.

Aren't those two the exact same thing?

----

I like dana's answer, but now I think about it, he could be a scum jailor.

The only way to find out if he's telling the truth is to lynch him, tbh.

UNVOTE; VOTE: danakillsu

Blech, blech, blech. Horrendous.

Ok, I have a proposal then.

We kill dana today, you can have at me tomorrow.

But you will still be wrong.

Also, I stabbed dana.

People who propose this kind of thing probably know more than they should.

----

@MacavityLock: since you asked me, do you

disagree

that dana and SSBF are VIs? As I mentioned before, dana's play was extremely VI-ish and illogical in the one game I've played with him on this site. I have less experience with SSBF, but I know he's mentioned in a MD thread that he's never been nightkilled. Of course, I don't think "VI" and "scum" are mutually exclusive. It does mean that weak arguments and sloppy play alone aren't enough for me to vote for them.

Sorry, I may have completely lost track of this in my absence, but what is this referring to? I don't remember asking you anything about VIs. To answer your question though, dana seems like much more of a VI than SSBF does, at least in this game. I have limited experience with both: less than 1 game day with dana (he replaced into a game in which I was NK'ed N1), none with SSBF.

----

dana is clearly scum.
the only way CSL got wounded is because people from dana's scum team stabbed him. This just proves that dana is scum.

What? How does this make any sense?

----

Anything else to address as I continue to catch up?

[Mikujin]

MOD specifically stated THE EXACT effects in his post. Why even post that you were bummed and that it would be a cool instant-kill mechanic? It obviously wasn’t.

Your statement adds nothing to the game and is just active-lurking filler.

Id be interested in hearing your argument why a person could get stabbed 10-20 times and only lose his ability\vote for the day

. It looked like a free lynch until i kept reading.

2. Why ask the second question, as it’s anything but rhetorical. Of course people would want a Scum PR dead. Why does suspicion of CSL as a potential Mafia PR eliminate the possibility that dana is a potential Mafia PR? Isn’t it a wise move by Town to potentially neuter a second scum PR while lynching another?

This itself, is filler posting in the same vein you accuse me of. The third sentence leaves me at a loss for words, im not even sure where this comes from.

When the flavor dropped there was one stab wound, not multiple, which means we just got to influence some dude with a shank. You're playing up the riot event to be more than it was.

dana is clearly scum.
the only way CSL got wounded is because people from dana's scum team stabbed him. This just proves that dana is scum.

This is bad. You realize there are 20+ people remaining, and it was a majority vote to shank CSL, right? There's no way dana's scumfriends are number enough players to swing the voting

that

heavily.

[Unsight]

If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.

Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then? You go out of your way to bring him up, describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently not finding him scummy, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. If there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?

Anti-town and scummy are not synonymous. Also, perhaps if you read my ISO you would be able to answer your own questions. So far I've indicated SSBF with MacCavityLock based on the flip as well as dana, drip, and LMP based on reactions to the Raivann wagon yesterday.

Your entire post very much looks like either you haven't ISO'd me to actually know my thoughts so far, you're deliberately attempting to misrep me, or both.

[Unsight]

ATTENTION UNSIGHT –

You seem perfectly willing to ignore questions directly put to you.

I'm not ignoring anyone. I just had the unfortunate timing to be making my catchup post(s) at the exact time the thread was being locked for the event.

While you are addressing whatever open questions LMP has for you also please comment and answer regarding the following –

You’ve already previously indicated you think Percy and DripHydra were buddying scum at your ISO 8 and infer that SSBF also is a scum partner to Drip at ISO 10. At ISO 21 you apparently reverse course on Percy being a DripHydra scum-partner and praise Percy’s case as something you would support Drip’s lynch based on. You haven’t mentioned LynchMe before this post at all. You’ve stated on multiple occasions that you suspect Drip to be scum. Why didn’t you vote Drip based on your longstanding suspicion based on this paring? Especially given the suspicion his slot has drawn from multiple other sources.

The short answer is that I didn't vote Drippereth because I was voting SSBF. The long answer is that I prefer lynches that provide stronger reflection. Given more than one suspect, I prefer to lynch the one that yields the most information.

Also, I did not mention LMP prior to the post in which I did for two reasons: First, I did not have time to fully analyze the previous day with flips at the time of my first post on Day 2 (something I mention in the post itself). Obviously my case on SSBF was and is unchanged from Day 1 however. Second, the evidence against LMP (Raivann flip + wagon analysis + Ser Loras flip) was not available until Day 2 and not available to me until I reread which I did between the linked post and my next one.