Newbie 958 ~Game over!

[Nobody Special]

Wait.

Why are you helping?

[Zachrulez]

Wait.

Why are you helping?

All I did was link a game I remember Incog being scum in that I remembered offhand. It doesn't mean I'm helping you or believe anything.

[Zachrulez]

Also, linking to a game under the conditions which you seek reduces your excuses for any lack of posting you might do in the future.

[Zachrulez]

What is interesting to me is when you "recall" your suspicion of Incog, you do so by reading yourself in iso. Yourself, rather than the game... which sets of a red flag to me. Why would your own posts be of more interest to you than everyone else's in this game?

[Nobody Special]

Granted. I see why you recall it, and I'm going to grumble that there's no iso in the archives. I want to read it, but it's really going to take all weekend.

Preview edit: because my iso is shorter than just about anyone else's, and I often read myself to remind myself which game I'm in. (Don't try this at home.)

[Zachrulez]

I linked the the PHPBB2 version of the game, which still has the iso feature.

[Nobody Special]

:: facepalm ::

So it does. (It looks different already.)

Then perhaps I'll have more by evening.

[Coach Travis]

Definitely still not liking Nobody Special. His sudden switch to Incog really makes no since to mew(even he claimed he was after him before), to just pull a 180 like that doesn't seem townish to me at all, especially since I see no way of Incog being scum at this point(I see more reason to suspect myself than him). It's like he realized a case against one townie wasn't working, so he needed to change it up.

[Equinox]

I think I'm due for a post...

Progress-wise, I have nothing to say. My stance remains.

I wouldn't immediately write off Nobody Special reading his own posts as a suspicious action, though. He was in a lot of games until just recently, so it's not unusual that he'd forget what this game was about or what he thought of it.

What is more intriguing to me is that he did it after Incognito's questions. That's something I would have done

before

reading new posts in a game that I don't really remember... o_O

Eh. The case on Incognito is still worth seeing.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 3.3

Nobody Special (2)

- Coach Travis, Equinox

Not Voting (3)

- Zachrulez, Incognito, Nobody Special

With five players alive, three votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Thursday July 22 at 07:07 UTC.

[Incognito]

See, that's the thing. CT-scum is not necessarily more likely than CT-town to have only one suspect; in fact, I would expect a scummember to have

more

than one suspect, because, well, that's the best way. (I'm not saying I have an excellent case; I'm saying I have a case.)

...which is exactly why your vote on CT was so weird. And you don't have a case against CT; like I said, you're pretty much sprouting a conspiracy theory at this point, which is extremely far from a case.

HOWEVER, thanks to your questions, I've re-read myself in iso, and I recall that you are also quite scummy. It's Friday, and I have a deadline this evening, but I will try very hard to re-ramp my case against you.

Interestingly enough, you also said that you found remouk (Zachrulez) suspicious for his early game activity. So I have no real clue why you've suddenly decided to focus on me and me only. And you never really said that I seemed scummy at any point in this game; you originally mentioned that you wanted to look into me just because I'm an IC, and you mentioned something about the Earlder SE comment sending up a red flag for you which is still something I completely don't see.

I took you up on your offer*, and glanced at a couple of games. Also, the Earlder-as-SE thing really sent up a red flag. I spent more time on that than I probably should have. (*I know it wasn't an offer.)

However (again). Your prodding me in that manner is not something that careful scum would do (trying to avoid the spotlight and all). So, are you town, honestly trying to understand my reads, or are you VeryBoldScum pushing me. Worth looking into (and when I say

looking into

I mean I have to find a scum!Incog game to read.)

I thought you looked into games of mine already?

-~-~-~-~

Zach's point about Nobody Special looking at himself in iso is a decent one; it's usually scum who feel the need to stay consistent with their thoughts rather than town, so I think they're more likely to try to make sure everything they mention in-thread meshes well with anything they say in the current time as well.

Eager to see Nobody Special's case against me, though at this point especially after these last few posts I'm really considering just hammering him.

[Incognito]

It's eerily quiet.

Zach, what are your own thoughts about my play here, and my play in that game we played together? Or do you not do meta?

[Nikanor]

Nobody needs to be prodded, so I'll just bump the thread.

[Nobody Special]

First off, I need to apologize to both Nikanor and all the players here for my lack of attention to this game. Unfortunately, I've given scum a VERY GOOD place to hide due to my apparent scumminess (which is no one's fault but my own -- yes, I got into a place where I was in too many games at once; attrition is making that more bearable now as opposed to a few days ago). I've let the town down so far, so let me try to redeem myself.

Some questions, to get some discussion going:

@Incog: Please tell me more about why you think "apparently we don't have a Doctor."

All right.

So first things first: with the death of brianj, I think it's probably safe to say that we're dealing with the following set-up:

*2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies

So the last mafiate is a Mafia Goon and apparently we don't have a Doctor here.

I honestly don't get a read on Incog. Could be meat, could be cake. (Carlin reference, never mind.)

---

@Equinox:

Don't take this as an AtE, but I know I'm town, and you know how I play as scum. Can you comment a bit more on this:

From a quick skim, Zachrulez's defense of Shadow Dancer's cop claim is kind of odd. I'll have to read through those again, but (WIFOM ALERT) I doubt he'd do that sort of thing as scum, seeing as he knows I lynched someone for doing that in a game he modded. >_>

From what I've seen of Zach, he's a pretty ballsy player and I would not put this past him. Thoughts?

---

Today? It's the reason why I never really picked up the "case" against him. Luckily (or maybe not so lucky considering what happened instead) LC never was in real danger, maybe because he replaced out and Equi is a reliable town read.

You mentioned him pretty minimally yesterday as well. Your interaction with Equi post claim does seem to have a presumption of her innocence. That and the fact that your reasoning for investigating LC matches up with something you said about him earlier in the game. (I think on d1.) In the absence of a counterclaim, I believe the claim.

That would leave me, CT, Incog, nobody special, and BrianJ. What are your thoughts on all of these players? Do you still suspect me the most?

This post raises some warning flags for me: It seems very likely that a scumpal would "help" by pointing out a supposed breadcrumb of their partner. Also, Zach is extremely ready to believe SD's claim. I can tell a planned strategy when I see one. (I've been there.)

---

Okay. Let's finish with some set-up speculation.

We know we had a Cop and a Goon.

Scum knows, for sure, whether or not we have a Doctor.

Five players left.

Possible remaining roles:
Goon, VT, VT, VT, VT

-OR-

Maf RB, Doc, VT, VT, VT

I would like for us to have a massclaim, with the caveat that the Doc (if any) not claim Doc. (Work with me here, I want to see what happens with this.)

I will start: I am VT.

I would like Equinox to claim next. (Then, popcorn.)

[Equinox]

From what I've seen of Zach, he's a pretty ballsy player and I would not put this past him. Thoughts?

On the other hand, I lynched someone in 945 (which he modded) because they offhandedly dismissed a cop claim. Like I said, it's WIFOM speculation, and there's a possibility that he took a risk here. I just don't hold him in much suspicion at the moment because Shadow Dancer was attacking remouk from left and right.

Interesting. I thought you were bringing a case against Incognito; instead, it's a case against Zachrulez... I should look back and see where this is coming from.

Why are we massclaiming? This isn't LyLo; this isn't even MyLo. Is this necessary? (I'll claim once I get my answer to this question.)

[Nobody Special]

I can't make a great case for it being "necessary" but it would help me get some more reads. The last remaining scum player is pretty good; I'm just not getting a great read on anyone. (Although I'm leaning toward Zach, if you couldn't tell.)

If you're happy lynching me today, there's not much I can do except keep asking questions till I die.

[Equinox]

You already know what the claims are going to be. The massclaim is a pointless exercise.

Townie, by the way.

/me tosses the potato to Zachrulez

[Nobody Special]

Thank you.

[Coach Travis]

I know I'm not Incog, but it's obvious why we have no doc:After SD was proven as scum, brianj's claim was confirmed, and obviously the mafia wants the cop out of there the instant he reveals himself, because they wouldn't want to risk getting found out by an investigation. So that meant if there was a doc they would have known he'd be the target of the NK, and they would have prevented it. Obviously, the NK went through. Therefore, we don't have a doc.

Also, while I didn't like Zach's defending of SD, it did seem like it would be too blatant if they were in fact partners, and that argument with Remouk went pretty far for something planned out. So while I don't know enough about Zach to know how he plays, I don't think he's scum.

[Nobody Special]

CT and Equinox: Can you both lay out a case on me, without using process of elimination?

[Coach Travis]

Whoops, realized my mistake in that last post:Forgot there could be an RB. Still, if we're goig to speculate on setup, I'd say it's less likely there is an RB or doc, because if there was I actually think the most logical move from the mafia would have been to block the cop, because the doc would probably be protecting him anyway, and so they would have a free shot on anyone else, giving them a shot at getting the doc, where with what happened, I think it would be tough to just randomly chance upon finding the doc ad blocking them, so they can get off the kill on the cop. Just how I see it. So either way, I doubt there's a doc.

[Nobody Special]

Okay, that makes sense. So, no Doc.

I'll ask again: Can you lay out your case on me? Be specific, please.

[Coach Travis]

Mostly I just feel you haven't contributed all that much to the game, and haven't really stood out. Obviously, mafia doesn't want to stand out, because they don't do anything silly and get caught. I really haven't seen anything suspicious from you or the other two players in your slot, but that also adds to it:Avoiding doing anything suspicious so you can blend in. Take that I haven't really gotten much out of you or either of the first two in your slot, it has to mean something, doesn't it? At least with Equinox I've finally gotten a read through her actions, while Zach started with a slot where I had a read, and I don't think he'd be crazy enough to deliberately seem supportive of SD. That's really all I can think of. So through all of this, it just seems like you've kinda been around not doing much, and I think that's what the mafia would want to do.

[Incognito]

@Nobody Special:

Since we know for certain we had a Cop in this game, we know we're dealing with one of the following two set-ups:

- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies
- 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Cop, 6 Townies

If we were dealing with the first-mentioned set-up, I think it'd be very unlikely that the scum would choose to kill the Cop as opposed to just roleblocking him. They'd know that there's definitely a Doctor in the game, so, in order to kill the Cop, they'd basically have to send roleblocks almost completely in the dark hoping to roleblock the Doctor so that they could successfully kill the Cop. The risk is ENORMOUS if they're unsuccessful too; they'd basically be dealing with a situation where

a)

the Cop would have some kind of an investigation the next Day to deliver to the town (whether it be guilty or innocent doesn't matter - it would still be catastrophic for the scum) and

b)

a Doctor who's alive and well. So I really don't think the scum would opt to go that route.

Since the scum just flat-out killed brianj, I think it's safe to assume that all of us who remain alive are just VTs and that we're dealing with role set-up #2 that I've listed above.

-~-~-~

I'm a bit shocked that Nobody Special hasn't come forward with a case against me; I really don't know what to make of that, though I do find it interesting that Zach is apparently his next choice, and I previously mentioned in Post 485 that he talked about Zachrulez/remouk in a negative way in his opening post. This might be confirmation bias on my part, but it again almost looks like he's just trying to keep himself consistent with his thoughts.

And this part of NS's post gives me a really weird vibe:

@Equinox:

Don't take this as an AtE, but I know I'm town, and you know how I play as scum. Can you comment a bit more on this:

From a quick skim, Zachrulez's defense of Shadow Dancer's cop claim is kind of odd. I'll have to read through those again, but (WIFOM ALERT) I doubt he'd do that sort of thing as scum, seeing as he knows I lynched someone for doing that in a game he modded. >_>

From what I've seen of Zach, he's a pretty ballsy player and I would not put this past him. Thoughts?

It almost seems like he's trying to collude with Equinox by pointing out a past experience they've had with Zachrulez together to try and sway her towards his side.

Nobody Special, I'd like your thoughts on the complete game interactions between remouk and Shadow Dancer/Alta. Thanks.

[Equinox]

It almost seems like he's trying to collude with Equinox by pointing out a past experience they've had with Zachrulez together to try and sway her towards his side.

Just a correction. The two experiences we're speaking of are separate; Equinox, Nobody Special, and Zachrulez have not had a game together.

He did, however, point out a previous experience I had with him in 940.