Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[Robocopter87]

Kill Xite.

[Robocopter87]

Going to be out for today, giving a heads up.

[Zajnet]

I've got to drive for four hours, so more in-depth thoughts will have to wait, sorry. So far, however, I think chihuahua is more likely scum than Xite.

[yabbaguy]

@all: What's more imperative, settling this logic debate, or hitting scum?

in other words: lynch from Xite/millar in the hopes that a liar is scum, or go off the board and hit [chihuahua, or whoever you suspect]? Frankly, I'd rather untangle this knot now instead of endgame and opt for the former. Maybe we conclude they're both Town. Will analyze more later.

[Xite91]

Actually Don, chi has been on my scumlist for a while, but if you didn't notice, I was... preoccupied.
Anyways, here's how I would like the lynches to go, today - Robo, this is not omgus, but the more he pushes his case on me, the scummier he looks. That nice little "kill Xite while I'm gone plz? kthnxbai" was a nice touch. tomorrow - Chi, he's been riding off everyone else a lot as don said, but I also want go a bit to consider him in lylo... he's not quite clear with how he speaks and I usually can't understand what he's going on about. Also, he seems like either scum riding on town cases or really easily swayed town, again bad in lylo. Of course I would still like to give him a chance to learn a bit before he gets that lynch, which is why if he keeps doing it tomorrow, then a lynch, then day 3 I would like millar lynched, by that time I am convinced that if he is still alive he is not town. And, I mean, not to mention the awesome case on him too.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

I still believe that chihuahua0 is scummy, but I agree that millar/Xite should be taken care of.

Now, Xite's strategy is broken, so there is no reason to keep him alive because of that. We will find out who is lying and the scum, if either is telling the truth, will kill the confirmed townie. So I'm thinking Xite is the way to go, but won't vote yet, since we still have time.

[Xite91]

Wait let me point out your logic to you smash...

You think that me/millar should be taken care of on the premise that you want to know who's telling the truth?
You do realize that now that I really claimed, we could be telling the truth and both of us could be town?
And think about it, me lying could have been great for the town if you guys had just listened to me.
But

now

my plan is broken? My plan works under the premise that I'm a vt, just sayin. so why would you think I'm scum if you think my plan could have worked?

Also, just putting this out there, Millar did nominate himself to be lynched in order to prove all the stuff youre talking about smash.
Although, Robo is still a scummier player to me and my vote will stay on him for the rest of the day no matter the outcome

[Fidelis]

So what I got from your (Xite's) plan is you claimed to be a lover to distract the mafia to kill you at night so they didn't get a double kill. I get that, although that's not nearly the grand plan that you were making it out to be before, so I still don't really know if you just made that up on the spot. And plus, why do you want to know who Millar's lover is? It doesn't do us any good to know who it is right now.

And come on chihuahua, if you would have hammered, why not put him at L-1? That doesn't make any sense.

[don_johnson]

^^ exactly.

unvote, vote: chihuahua

[Fidelis]

ebwop: I forgot that there was a page 20 in my previous post =p

then day 3 I would like millar lynched, by that time I am convinced that if he is still alive he is not town.

A little WiFoM-y, eh? And besides, in this game we can't use that kind of stuff because of the treacherous lover.

And also, Xite, even though your "plan" was protown, I'm not sure if I can trust you now even more than before. Now we know for sure that you are a liar (at least about your role) so I tend to take anything you say now with a few grains of salt. That being said, I still like a Xite lynch, just based on the fact that I personally always lynch liars no matter what their lie was.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Well, while {millar|chihuahua} would be a juicy, crunchy and wholly satisfying lynch (due to the whole clinical insanity thang) I'd prefer to start with Xite.

Vote: Xite

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Dammit.

Vote: Xite

[yabbaguy]

SV, you're not paying attention.

The dichotomy in question is {millar|Xite}.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Vote Count #11

• chihuahua0 (smashbro_of_the_SSS, don_johnson) 2 (L-8)
  millar13 (ZeroFang, Mr.Sandman, Sanxion1, chihuahua0) 4 (L-6)
  Robocopter87 (Xite9) 1 (L-9)
  Xite91 (youngminii, Pittbunny, Fidelis, Robocopter87, millar13, Wacka Alpaca, Muthaa, Shattered Viewpoint) 8 (L-2)

Not voting: Enigma, PaltryExcuse, yabbaguy, Zajnet

With 19 alive, 10 votes are required for a lynch.

V/LA:

Deadline is Wednesday, July 21st at 8pm UK time.

Activity Check!

We have replacements! Please welcome Zajnet, who is replacing Guthrie, and Enigma, who is replacing Reverse Simplicity.

I am still seeking a replacement for youngminii.

PaltryExcuse has requested replacement.

Prod Count:

Muthaa, Pittbunny, Reverse Simplicity, youngminii - 1

[Xite91]

So what I got from your (Xite's) plan is you claimed to be a lover to distract the mafia to kill you at night so they didn't get a double kill. I get that, although that's not nearly the grand plan that you were making it out to be before, so I still don't really know if you just made that up on the spot. And plus, why do you want to know who Millar's lover is? It doesn't do us any good to know who it is right now.

And come on chihuahua, if you would have hammered, why not put him at L-1? That doesn't make any sense.

I also did it because if millar is just playing VI, they might have saved us the trouble of wasting a lynch on him because he might give them a double kill if we in fact were lovers, with that being said, I know I was more likely, but that would have been better than a double kill.

I said it had faults, but I also said I was willing to take the fall for those faults. I stick to my beliefs probably a bit too much and I was sure this would be the best way for me to help town, but alas it backfired.

I only asked because he seemed so eager to tell. I do the same thing with role bread-crumbing. I'm not saying he has to, just that if he feels he needs to then he should. If he feels he doesn't, then why the hell give hints?

ebwop: I forgot that there was a page 20 in my previous post =p

then day 3 I would like millar lynched, by that time I am convinced that if he is still alive he is not town.

A little WiFoM-y, eh? And besides, in this game we can't use that kind of stuff because of the treacherous lover.

And also, Xite, even though your "plan" was protown, I'm not sure if I can trust you now even more than before. Now we know for sure that you are a liar (at least about your role) so I tend to take anything you say now with a few grains of salt. That being said, I still like a Xite lynch, just based on the fact that I personally always lynch liars no matter what their lie was.

Yes, WIFOM, but within a good reason. but do you mean because that townie might be tied to the treacherous lover? Then didn't millar even say that he'd take the fall for that?
I mean come on, you're saying we cant use that because he might be the poor lover that is in love with scum? Is that a reason not to lynch him?

Uhm, you're supposed to take everything everyone says here wit ha few grains of salt.
You do realize that there have been mafia theory discussions on lies in games by town all the time, right? The conclusion? Lies can be beneficial if done right. Mine was well planned, poorly executed, so it didn't do much but confuse everyone, so I apologize.

[Fidelis]

I also did it because if millar is just playing VI, they might have saved us the trouble of wasting a lynch on him because he might give them a double kill if we in fact were lovers, with that being said, I know I was more likely, but that would have been better than a double kill.

I said it had faults, but I also said I was willing to take the fall for those faults. I stick to my beliefs probably a bit too much and I was sure this would be the best way for me to help town, but alas it backfired.

I only asked because he seemed so eager to tell. I do the same thing with role bread-crumbing. I'm not saying he has to, just that if he feels he needs to then he should. If he feels he doesn't, then why the hell give hints?

Fair enough on all counts. You know, I remember a previous game I was in (not on this site) where I pushed to lynch someone with a similar lie that was going to benefit town. They turned out being town. I have a a feeling that's what's going on here now, so I'll UNVOTE: .

Yes, WIFOM, but within a good reason. but do you mean because that townie might be tied to the treacherous lover? Then didn't millar even say that he'd take the fall for that?
I mean come on, you're saying we cant use that because he might be the poor lover that is in love with scum? Is that a reason not to lynch him?

And my point here was that we can't use the fact that someone is still alive as suspicion, because if they are tied to the treacherous lover then they definitely won't get nk'ed. It's not a reason to not lynch someone, but it can't be used as a case is all I'm saying. We have to keep the possibility in mind.

I don't think Millar is too suspicious right now, he's probably telling the truth imo. And chihuahua is coming off more nooby than scum, so I'm not voting anyone for now.

[don_johnson]

And chihuahua is coming off more nooby than scum, so I'm not voting anyone for now.

how so? please expand on this line of thinking as best you can.

[Xite91]

Don, I think I already did, that being my point as to why we wait a day to lynch chi

[Wacka Alpaca]

Someone asked me a bit ago what my reasoning/what I thought would benefit by lynching Millar (Earlier in the day).
to that, I'd FIRST like to make it clear that that was A LONG time ago (Like 14 pages?) and that not all (If not that, then none) of my opinions from back then are the same as now.

Also, the reason I didn't give examples/quotes and whatnot, is becuase i was "Speedreading" and was just giving a "Hey! heres what I think" post, much like what the new replacements are doing now.

If i remember correctly, Millar was being self-destructive, and anti-town back then, making pointless posts, and DRAWING attention to him for the town to analyse.
This meant that the town was not scum hunting, due to an immense diversion that was Millar. This distraction had to be removed in order to move forward as a town.
In such a large game, we can justify a HORRIBLE townie lynch, to make progress on the next day - on the theory that a full town with one HORRIBLE player is worse than a full town - 2 townies.

Also, at the time certain players were avoiding the whole Millar fiasco, and some were jumping on it - power players like Robo come to mind as attackers of Millar, and lurking players (Most have now been replaced) come to mind as avoiders. with that info, if Millar flipped town (Which again, in that post I say I didnt think he was) we would have some dirt on Robo and other power players, and some trust in others, if Millar flipped scum (At the time I thought was highly possible) then we could see Robo (And others, i dont remember exactly) as a super pure townie, because they jumped on Millar immediately.

Hopefully this makes sense to everyone, and more importantly the question asker.
I'd like to remind everyone that I welcome questions to my play, and will try to answer all of them, so if i miss one, please remind me.
Thanks!

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Now on to scum hunting (If you can even call it that right now).
Xite, I agree with a person who posted that your plan felt "Made up" on the spot. that plan DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
Think of it, why would the mafia kill you again? YOU LOOK LIKE MAFIA.
Whenever I play as town, I try to be two steps ahead.
Whenever I play as mafia, I try to be THREE steps ahead.

*Next little bit is purely a "What I would do" scenario*

If a townie is showing scummy behaviour, I go for them in the DAY phase, to sway the town, and look like a townie.
If a townie is being REALLY townie, or fairly scummy, then I DO NOT kill them in night phase.
Why? becuase then the town KNOWS what the mafia will do.

Lets say you ARE a lover, why would I kill you, if your whole plan revolves around the town NOT killing you NOW, so they can see your plan and kill you LATER.
That is like giving the mafia insight into the future actions of the town. In this case, making day 2 a complete cake walk.

*Scenario Over*

I really do not like your play right now, with your huge amount of posts, many EBWOP (which shows nervousness).
My vote stays on you untill we can show someone else is scummier.

[Xite91]

Now on to scum hunting (If you can even call it that right now).
Xite, I agree with a person who posted that your plan felt "Made up" on the spot. that plan DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
Think of it, why would the mafia kill you again? YOU LOOK LIKE MAFIA.
Whenever I play as town, I try to be two steps ahead.
Whenever I play as mafia, I try to be THREE steps ahead.

*Next little bit is purely a "What I would do" scenario*

If a townie is showing scummy behaviour, I go for them in the DAY phase, to sway the town, and look like a townie.
If a townie is being REALLY townie, or fairly scummy, then I DO NOT kill them in night phase.
Why? becuase then the town KNOWS what the mafia will do.

Lets say you ARE a lover, why would I kill you, if your whole plan revolves around the town NOT killing you NOW, so they can see your plan and kill you LATER.
That is like giving the mafia insight into the future actions of the town. In this case, making day 2 a complete cake walk.

*Scenario Over*

I really do not like your play right now, with your huge amount of posts, many EBWOP (which shows nervousness).
My vote stays on you untill we can show someone else is scummier.

First point to dispute, EBWOPs (cuz it's a quick one)
I did it five times out of 74 posts. Lets assume I don't with this one. that's a 5/75 ratio or 1/15 that's not really a lot.
Also, most of the time, unless I'm fixing something specifically in my post, EBWOPS are used by me more to post response to someone that posted a long post before me that I'm not going to respond when I already did a wall post. I'm not sure how that shows nervousness.

Next, I figured they might try a kill on me if I got the town to "trust" me and my plan.
And yeah I realized that afterwards. So I hoped scum didn't catch it and started sayin later on.
Like I said, it was a good plan but poorly executed

[Sanxion]

unvote

I would like to point out that I don't really like Xite and am only not voting him at the moment because i need to figure out what the "plan" was and decide if it was scummy or not.

In other news, millar is still annoying but I am guessing not scummy. I honestly don't understand him one way or the other.

[Pittbunny]

Next, I figured they might try a kill on me if I got the town to "trust" me and my plan.
And yeah I realized that afterwards. So I hoped scum didn't catch it and started sayin later on.
Like I said, it was a good plan but poorly executed

Open setups with no protection or investigations make for poor places to try to attempt vague 'plans'.

[Xite91]

We've beeno over this I think and I think I said, not if done right. Thing is I didn't do all that well with it.

[Enigma]

Whacka perfectly expressed why I didnt want to hammer Xite yesterday with his scum hunting paragraph.
I just don't believe that a mafia would put such a blatant lie out there where it can easily be countered by millar. It's a very risky thing to do and would most likely result in a lynch as seen. Mafia are generally much more careful about their play.

That said, I've seen mafia players play reverse psychology. Given Xites join date, I would rate him as a likely candidate to lynch for upcoming days but would also give him the benefit for day one.
Policy lynches are pretty stupid, and makes gameplay rather monotonous.

Also thanks whacka, appreciate the explanation.

[Sanxion]

Whacka perfectly expressed why I didnt want to hammer Xite yesterday with his scum hunting paragraph.
I just don't believe that a mafia would put such a blatant lie out there where it can easily be countered by millar. It's a very risky thing to do and would most likely result in a lynch as seen. Mafia are generally much more careful about their play.

That said, I've seen mafia players play reverse psychology. Given Xites join date, I would rate him as a likely candidate to lynch for upcoming days but would also give him the benefit for day one.
Policy lynches are pretty stupid, and makes gameplay rather monotonous.

Also thanks whacka, appreciate the explanation.

Who would you lynch today?