Open 231: My Name is Earl (Game Over)

[XScorpion]

It seems that town agrees that hiding information is pro-town or something? Clearly you might as well lynch me because I don't plan on hiding or voting without giving reasons right away.
I'd love for you to explain to me how it's pro-town to throw out votes with no justification, because I never learned to play that way. Only scum have any reason to vote and explain themselves later, in order to cover themselves. Town shouldn't have anything to hide.

I suggest you stop this discussion now.

I suggest you give your view on xite.

[nocase]

providing a reason in a later post provides double the reaction. first there's the reaction to the vote, then there's the reaction to the explanation. and sometimes revealing your line of thought is just not the optimal move at a given point in time.

experienced scum tend not to vote with no justification any more than experienced townies, because they know it's frowned upon by a lot of players and they don't want that to bite them in the ass.

[XScorpion]

I struggle to see how the reaction to a vote would be anything other than requesting an explanation. If an explanation wasn't given, then I would immediately cry "anti-town."

and sometimes revealing your line of thought is just not the optimal move at a given point in time.

So you confirm that hiding information is pro-town. Huh.

There's a reason that voting without immediate justification is frowned on.

[Budja]

I think Xite is town. I am not getting into PR speculation and neither should you.

nocase is 100% correct here.

(Does anyone have a meta on Scorpion?)

[XScorpion]

If he is town, then what do you think about him admitting to hiding information? Do you think that is pro-town?

[Budja]

It can be (deja vu).

[XScorpion]

Explain to me how hiding information helps town in any way.

[Budja]

eg. I am cop. I don't tell you -> pro-town
more generally.
I see something scummy -> I say so without detail -> paranoia -> lots of reads -> reveal
you are too fixed to a single view. Few acts are always scummy. Context matters.

[Adrien C]

The way I see it, if you have a power role, don't tell anyone unless you have to because you don't want the scum finding out.

[XScorpion]

eg. I am cop. I don't tell you -> pro-town

I'm going to repeat my question before: do you actually think xite is a PR?

If you see something scummy, you should point it out so that the town knows. That's how I've played this game since I started almost a year ago. If you want to hide your suspicions and vote without telling people why, what's the point of this discussion anyway? And how are we supposed to figure out who is scum? I'm still not seeing how hiding information makes any sense at all, unless you are a PR, and I highly doubt Xite is.

[Beefster]

I've played a game with XS, but it isn't valid meta as the game hasn't finished nor has XS flipped.

@Budja: I'm really not comfortable with how you're dodging XScorp's question regarding xite- maybe some sort of indirect buddying. And I also dislike how you're avoiding giving your reasoning and justifying it with an outlandish softclaim. It all points to scum.

@xite: I find your want to massclaim, even just Earls, suspicious. As stated, it only benefits the scum. Consider the scenarios:
-If the setup has a Roleblocker, the scum may not claim and either no Earls or 2 Earls will claim. Possibly, just one will fakeclaim Earl just to make it look like a 2 Goon setup, and possibly try to frame one of the real Earls.
-If the setup has 2 Goons, there is a chance that one of the scum will fakeclaim Earl, in attempt to make it look like a Roleblocker setup with 2 Earls. Perhaps scum will not claim, which may make it look like a Roleblocker setup with no Earls and a fake Earl claim.
Simply put, massclaiming Earl provides no solid info, leads to WIFOM, and can only benefit scum.

FoS: Xite

[Budja]

Beginning to see scorpion as obstinate town.

^ Beefster is still scum.

[Col.Cathart]

^ Beefster is still scum.

Quoted for truth.

Though at this rate, active lurking Adrien C is going to take the top spot in no time...

Xscorp

: It all depends on the situation, but if you think, something you noticed or you know will benefit town more later rather than right now, then it's alright. Think about Cop having innocent result on someone. Why tell it at the beginning of D2, if you can try to lynch someone who can be scum, get some more reports, and reveal them when that information gives the town insta-win. Granted, Cop can be offed some time before, but that's up to him how to prevent that.

[Adrien C]

I apologize, guys. RL stuff has kinda limited me lately and when I've had the chance to get on, I had three other games to worry about. But my schedule is opening up. Going to re-read things and post thoughts later.

[AurorusVox]

I'm just saying that given possible outcomes, it would be near impossible for scum to claim anything (aside from VT) without giving themselves away. They do that and they're lynched, they don't and no counterclaims happen, we assume that power roles are legit, and can focus mainly on VTs to find scum.

I dunno, seems like a good plan to me, but I understand, you guys prefer the more... conventional way

We don't have to, I'm just saying that if we use our heads, that might be the best way to catch scum

In your scenario, scum claims VT, we don't know who they are because other people also claim VT, our PRs are outed, and now scum know who to night kill.

I dunno, seems like an

awful

plan to me

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count #4

Adrien C (1) - nocase
AurorusVox (0) -
Beefster (3) - Budja, d3x, Col.Cathart
Budja (2) - Xite91, Beefster
Col.Cathart (0) -
d3x (0) -
nocase (0) -
Xite91 (2) - Adrien C, XScorpion
XScorpion (1) - AurousVox

Not Voting (0)-

With 9 players alive it takes 5 to lynch.


Deadline is July 30 ~12 pm EDT

[Beefster]

^ Beefster is still scum.

And what makes you say that? You could at least try to come up with a good reason. I haven't seen one from you yet.

[XScorpion]

Think about Cop having innocent result on someone.

Blah blah blah more PR discussion. Yes, it makes sense for cops/docs to hide themselves. Now explain why it makes any sense for Xite to withhold information from town, without suggesting that he is a PR. What benefit could town possibly have from less information? I do not share the belief that a regular townie should know anything other than what the rest of town knows. Good townies should be as open as possible. Secrecy is scummy.

[nocase]

nocase is 100% correct here.

i always am.

Though at this rate, active lurking Adrien C is going to take the top spot in no time...

WAY AHEAD OF YOU, BRO.

The way I see it, if you have a power role, don't tell anyone unless you have to because you don't want the scum finding out.

I apologize, guys. RL stuff has kinda limited me lately and when I've had the chance to get on, I had three other games to worry about. But my schedule is opening up. Going to re-read things and post thoughts later.

looks like you're keeping up with the conversation. leads me to think the second quote is kind of bs, you know?

[d3x]

@

Xite101

- Stop with this line of thought. I highly doubt that D1 with no information what-so-ever, the game would be that easy to break open. Otherwise no one would play Open setups.

@

Xite107

- Let's say that Scum both Claim VT. We have 2 PRs at minimum and 3 at most. That'd be 6-7 VT. Are you saying that this is a for sure Win for us? That's ridiculous. Factoring in inevitable MisLynches of random VTs and the equally inevitable NKs of the outted PRs, we're no closer to a victory than without a Claim D1. I'd say we're actually in a worse spot. That's not even taking into account that we get the added bonus of keeping around our PRs {assuming we have any and the Scum judge poorly}. At this point, I'm willing to assume that you're closer to VI than Scum with an RB but I will be keeping an eye on you.

@

Xite115

-

Then it's easier for town to blend.

What exactly does this mean? {Also, I'm sorry to hear about your hospital troubles. Feel better!}

@

XS116

-

voting without a reason is scummy

Voting without reasoning is anti-town

You are aware that these are 2 completely different things, right? Yeah, you are.

It's not scummy, it's anti-town.

Considering you just clarified that you were specifically talking about Voting without a reason, I find you stretching to make a case. You're flipping back and forth to try and gain steam. I call that scummy.

Vote: Xite
Xite is hiding information, breadcrumbing power role and rolefishing for Earl.

The irony is not lost.

UnVote/Vote:XScorpion

Explain to me how RoleFishing Xite is ProTown considering you just finished saying that it's a main reason you're Voting him/her. You're even suggesting that Xite may in fact be a PR.

*sniff...sniffsniff*

Something smells scummy around here.

Hey XS- What

do

you think of Beefster? Thus far you've only mentioned him to bring a case against Budja and myself. And if we're Scum together for it, how do you account for Col's "terrible" Vote in p83 and nocase's FoS in p98?

[AurorusVox]

Think about Cop having innocent result on someone.

Blah blah blah more PR discussion. Yes, it makes sense for cops/docs to hide themselves. Now explain why it makes any sense for Xite to withhold information from town, without suggesting that he is a PR. What benefit could town possibly have from less information? I do not share the belief that a regular townie should know anything other than what the rest of town knows. Good townies should be as open as possible. Secrecy is scummy.

I think people are being pedants about this whole thing. XS is talking about withholding your reasons for a vote, not withholding inno results and things like that. That said, I can understand that you might want to delay revealing your reads (town reads, for example), and I can understand wanting to see if other people pick up on why you think someone is scum - but it can turn around and bite the town in the ass if everyone votes without reasons, right? But by the same token, XS, remember that people haven't been withholding their reasons indefinitely.

Anyway,

Unvote

[XScorpion]

You are aware that these are 2 completely different things, right? Yeah, you are.

Semantics.

Explain to me how RoleFishing Xite is ProTown

are you using 'rolefishing' as an adjective or a verb here?
If it's an adjective, then no.
If it's a verb, then I'm not rolefishing, I'm trying to stop people from hiding information, which is anti-town/scummy.

considering you just finished saying that it's a main reason you're Voting him/her. You're even suggesting that Xite may in fact be a PR.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. How many times do I need to say I think Xite ISN'T a PR, and is actually scum?

Hey XS- What do you think of Beefster? Thus far you've only mentioned him to bring a case against Budja and myself.

Beefster got lynched on day 1 in an ongoing game as town for the same reasons you guys are attacking him now. I'd rather wait to get a better read on him than lynch him so soon again.

And if we're Scum together for it, how do you account for Col's "terrible" Vote in p83 and nocase's FoS in p98?

I'm leaning less towards you as scum. I would like to ask why you suddenly decided to start explaining your votes though. Is there a reason why I'm worthy of making a case but Beefster wasn't?

[nocase]

so aurorus, who are you fosing now?

[Beefster]

XScorp: I understand what you tried to mean by Xite being scum- where PR in its context meant town-aligned power role. It's simply a miscommunication. Your play IS kinda wonky- not that it means anything because I've seen a lot of wonky VTs.

d3x: geez, attacking XS on miscommunication? The line between scummy and anti-town is sketchy at best and the fact that you're attacking him over such a small semantic bothers me.

FoS: d3x

I'm off LA BTW. My bro left.

[nocase]

the line between scummy and anti-town is distinct and should be highlighted.