Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[don_johnson]

maybe you should try doing something about all this stuff you're bithcin about.

[millar13]

Could someone make a analysis post on chihuahua? I haven't seen anyone explain why he is scummy, and to be honest, I did not know he was in the game until everyone started talking about him.
He was, and to an extent, is, off my radar.

I'm starting to "cool down" off of Millar and Xite, they do seem like misguided townies... and especially now that they are trying to help more than try to be idiots.
I will unvote, but will not cast a vote on anyone until I personally beleive they are worthy of being lynched, and until someone proves it to me, I will remain off of anyone.

Unvote:

*Note:*
I am going to reread all of chi-chi's posts, to see if i see anything.

Xita my lover we have escaped!

[Enigma]

I scrolled through all of chi's posts yesterday and there is nothing that outrageously shouts scum to me. Alot does seem suss but same can be said for many other players. The only fact helping the case is Fidelis' contribution which ultimately is based on the same amount of knowledge which we all have.
This is why I think Sanxion's and Robo's early votes are extremely suss. And what better way of avoiding being accused of hammering a townie than to jump on the wagon early without at least a decent analysis on why you agree with Fidelis.

Regardless, I will reserve my judgement on chihauhau until he posts here himself.

And I didn't even notice chihuahua's wagon had built so quickly due to earlier votes. Haven't seen SmashBros around lately?

[Switz]

Ok, here’s the results of my read. Apologies for the length but it was a first read, so...

I'm using all the old names, cause none of the replacements have really established themselves yet, and most of the posts are by their original players. If I've bolded your name in a paragraph, please answer the question there if you could, that'd be great.

So, from the top (post numbers are topicwide, not ISOs):

62/64/65 – When Robo and yabba have their early-game spat, Chi criticizes them but votes Robo without even FoSing yabba. Fidelis picks this out (all the more interesting if they are Lovers) and Chi says he did this b/c “someone was already voting for him, and I don’t want to be accused for making a wagon with a random vote” This seems like much too much thought for a townie; scum would be more likely to overjustify their votes, especially at this stage. And yes, I came up with that idea before reading youngminii’s post immediately after, which has the same basic idea.

71 – Don votes Chi here and chooses not to give a reason. When he does give his reason, in 143, he says he voted Chi because he is PARF, Paranoid Attitude/Role Fishing. This is pretty accurate, but,

Don

, why couldn’t you have just come out and said this in the first place, rather than leading us on for over 50 posts. Moreover, in 150, after ZeroFang asks Don why he kept his reasons a secret, Don responds with the unsettling statement that “writing up ‘cases’ is a courtesy and a privilege. not a right.” Which is totally true. Except not doing so is anti-town.

74 – Reverse Simplicity random number votes himself and sets off a misguided debate on whether selfvoting is scummy even if it’s random. What’s interesting to note is that literally 4 minutes later, Xite jumps on RevSim for the selfvote, and actively chooses not to unvote after having RNG explained to him, which, in retrospect, could theoretically be a bit scummy. Mr.Sandman jumps on this wagon too, which will prove ironic since he’s become quite the opponent of Xite in recent pages. It’s also interesting to note that RevSim is one of the possibilities for Millar’s Lover, and that he only posts in relation to this debate and has provided no other commentary to the game.

87 – Chi asks about lovertells. SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM. Yes, it could just be the act of a misguided, overzealous townie, but I doubt it. And, in his only post that doesn’t deal with the fallout of his selfvote (88), Reverse Simplicity encourages this misguided, scummy endeavor. Which does not encourage me.

89 – Robo votes randomly for Millar, who has two posts at this point, one of which is a confirm and the other of which is a random vote. What’s worse, Smashbro and ZeroFang point this out shortly after, and Robo completely evades the question. Scummy.

Robo

: this definitely needs to be explained. This is pre-crazy-Millar and makes absolutely no sense to me.

152 – yabba here decides to spontaneously suggest ISOing Shattered Viewpoint. This, I believe, turns out to be useful, as SV looks scummy there and elsewhere later in the day, but,

yabba

, how did you pick SV? Fidelis asks but I don’t believe you gave a specific answer.

163 – Don does a number of interesting things here, the most noticed of which is his asking whether or not lovers commit suicide when their partner is lynched, which sets the players off on quite a diversion. Robo mentions it a few posts later (171), and when he doesn’t get a reaction, he tries again on 175. This time, he and Don get into what’s later called a chatroom-style fight that serves to do nothing except distract the town from scumhunting. Yes, it’s a bit odd that Don didn’t know Lovers died when their partner did, but it’s much less scummy than using that lapse in knowledge as a springboard to derail the Town.

166 – Xite says one of these three (Don, Chi, and Yabba) is scum, but has “a feeling” that it’s no more that one is. Uh huh. That would be an easy claim to make if you were scum, now wouldn’t it Xite? That said, Chi is one of our prime voting options, and Don’s not on my list of towniest players either. I think the most interesting thing to note here, however, is that for all his talk about suspecting Millar, here and elsewhere, he doesn’t actually vote Millar until… ever. Xite never, ever votes Millar. What's sad is that at this point their relationship is so confusing I don't know if that's scummy or not. But it's pretty close.

191/197 – Millar claims Robo as his love. Robo decides to play along and says he is Millar’s lover. I really don’t understand the rationale behind this,

Robo

, would it be possible for you to flesh out your motivations for me?

240 – Miller finally claims Vanilla Townie, and basically gives up for now.

251 – In the middle of all this, XITE ADVOCATES ACTIVELY LYNCHING LOVERS?!? This is quite possibly the worst idea yet, laying the groundwork for massive WIFOM when outed pairs don’t die and setting it up so the Mafia can easily plow through the Town. Xite also outs themselves as a lover, but chooses not to out their partner—which is dumb, because that person would die anyways after we lynched Xite. Just another scummy move by Xite.

252 – Pittbunny, who has barely contributed up to now, votes Robo without giving reasons.

Pitt

, what were your reasons?

257 – Millar agrees that outing the lovers is the next best step.. As said above, this is an atrocious idea, and his supporting it doesn’t hold well with me.

297 – Millar reasserts that outing the lovers is a good idea, and tries to use numbers to justify. I don’t think he’s using the right numbers though, so I’m going to move on to…

298 – Chi pointing out how bad of an idea killing the Lovers is. Which really irritates me because up until this point Chi is really really scummy but this is a pro-town statement to make which he really doesn’t have to. Still not sure what to think about this.

314 – As much as I find Millar to be anti-town, he does explicitly say here that Robo is scum, and while it’s OMGUS if Millar is scum, it’s interesting to note because Robo’s really jumping out at me in this read as well. Millar later says (in 318) that his other two picks are Fidelis and Shattered—something to consider if we lynch Millar and he does flip town.

326/327: Robo finally convinces Millar to give up the gambit. Or something. I still can’t get over how much I dislike this gambit and Robo’s interaction with Millar during it.

332: Xite softclaims as Millar’s lover, encouraging town to lynch one of the two.

335/355: Then Miller claims Xite is not his lover. This is the part where I get a migraine. I’ll go into a more detailed discussion of this paradigm at the end. Millar claims his lover is lurking, and later claims his lover is on the prod wagon (358). This means, if Millar is truly a Lover, he is either lying, and his lover is Xite, or he is telling the truth, and his lover is Muthaa, Pittbunny, Reverse Simplicity, or myself. And, thankfully, I’m not Millar’s lover.

392: Don, who hasn’t been all that active lately, is still pushing a Chi lynch, which worries me somewhat. He’s eventually convinced by Pittbunny and Fidelis, but I don’t like that he has to be convinced.

454: Xite claims to be a Vanilla Townie who was lying to the Town in order to somehow save the Town from the Mafia NKing a townie who is a lover and getting 2 kills in one night. It doesn’t really make sense, but the possibility that it’s true now throws a wrench into our possibilities for the lynch. However, as I’ll point out below, I still think Xite is our best option for today's lynch.

472 – Chi returns, then says he would have hammered Xite. Umm….scummy much? Luckily, yabba and Don jumped on it so I don’t really have to.

501 – Fidelis breaks from the pack here and votes SV briefly. I was going to ask you why (and you can most certainly answer if you want), but then…

510 – Fidelis claims to be Chi’s lover and votes for him, thinking he’s the treacherous lover, which throws a whole new wrench into the mix. At this point, I think it’s pretty safe to say that Fidelis isn’t bluffing, because Chi’s pretty close to getting lynched, in spirit if not in votes. However, we now have a problem. Chi, Xite, and Millar have now all been accused by various other people of being the Treacherous Lover, and they can’t all be. So we need to think about who’s best to kill in general, not who’s most likely to be the Treacherous Lover, because that way lies madness.

Okay, so, regardless of who else I think is scummy—which will come shortly after this—I think our lynch today needs to be either Xite, Millar, or Chi. So let’s look at them separately, and consider the possibilities if we lynch them.

Xite

: Initially claimed to be Millar’s lover, is presently claiming to be a Vanilla Townie who came up with a devious master plan I still really don’t understand that won’t work anymore.

If Xite is town

: We mislynch a VT, only losing one townie, and not a pair of Lovers.

If Xite is mafia

: If Xite’s not a VT, it seems most likely he’s either Millar’s Treacherous Lover or generic Scum. We have thus killed one member of the Mafia, possibly losing one (confusing) Townie.

Millar

: Initially acted insane, then claimed to be Robo’s Lover, then claimed to be Vanilla, then was claimed as Xite’s Lover, then claimed to be the pro-town lover of Muthaa, Pittbunny, or Reverse Simplicity (or me, but again, I'm not counting myself).

If Millar is town

: We lynch two townies (unless despite all odds we get the Treacherous Lover), and no longer get closure on Xite because of her claim of being a lying Vanilla.

If Millar is mafia

: Honestly, if Millar’s lying, I have no idea what will happen, but it seems likely that Millar will be scum, and maybe is the Treacherous Lover.

Chihuahua

: Has not claimed to my recollection, but has been claimed as Fidelis’ Lover. Fidelis has no real reason to lie, so this is pretty set in stone; the real question is whether or not Chi is the TL.

If Chi is town

: Chi is scummy, but not actual scum. We then lose two townies.

If Chi is scum

: Chi is the Treacherous Lover, and we lose one townie and one scum.

So, if we look at this from a numbers perspective, with lynching scum being +1, lynching town being -1, and the best outcome marked with an *:

Xite is town: -1
*Xite is mafia: +1 or +0
Millar is town: -2
*Millar is mafia: +1 or +0
Chi is town: -2
*Chi is scum: +0

In order to get the best result possible, we have to vote for either Xite or Millar, and in order to avoid the worst of those two results, we should vote Xite. There’s certainly enough evidence to justify him as being scum, and lynching him has the best possibility of working in our favor. Luckily, I'm already voting for Xite thanks to my predecessor, so I see no reason to change anything at this point.

That said, I think, statistically, at least one of these three is a townie who just got in the way, which means we need to keep our options open. As I’ve stated above, I’ve found actions of both Don and Robo to be very scummy at times, and I really don’t like the way they’ve been interacting with our three options for today across the board. I’m also not getting very good vibes from RevSim or SV, although I think the latter might be osmosis-dislike because he’s been getting targeted an awful lot. Neither of them have posted much of anything thus far though (especially RevSim, who’ll probably be someone else soon at this rate), so at this point I can’t go much further than suspicions.

[Enigma]

TLDR: Don't lynch a lover because a townie will die with them.
I don't think lynching based on probability does it, it's just the same as mindless random voting. I'ld be more inclined to lynched based on suspicious actions.

Also your hate at lynching lovers: If the lover groups are dead it's just a basic game setup 10:3, nothing terrifying here. Honestly it's not the best idea, but by no means is it the worse.

[Sanxion]

Uh, no? one of the scum would also be dead enigma. if the rest of your math is correct, it's 10:2.

[Sanxion]

I take that back. [/open set up fail]

YOU are correct, sir. Have a cigar.

[Enigma]

v/la until tuesday (unless the places im staying at have internet)

[ZeroFang]

SERIOUSLY? I haven't posted since July 7th, on the 12th page. That's rediculous. How the %$@ have you guys ignored me for 10 pages and 7-8 days? I haven't gotten so much as a mention! Not even a prod!

Ok, that aside, lots of catching up to do. That's right. Wall posts. Left and right, baby.

First things first.

Page 13-14

Millar is scum telling like crazy. At this point it seems like millar and Xite are lovers, but are trying to cover it up. Xite fullclaimed lover, but not his(her?) partner for security's sake. Millar's just playing like an idiot. He accused Robo of being scum, and then Robo responded "Why don't you just name the whole scumteam right now". Maybe I'm just crazy, but that really screams mafia buddies to me. Then millar goes off and says it's his "strategy", just to contradict himself a post later saying he was playing idioticly. I winced when I saw Robo immediatly drop all charges against him in the following post. After that mess, Xite softclaimed millar's lover. I facepalmed. I believe Pittbunny put it best:

i cant be bothered tbh...u have an oppurtunity to out all the lovers....and therefore have a chance of killing off one scum member. but no watever

You should not be a VT. Your ploy makes no sense as presented from a vanilla standpoint.

Page 15

Robo said millar usually acts sane as a townie. Millar acted quite insanely this time. Meta suggests that he's not townie. This post by Robo is just plain wrong. The best scum act as townie as possible, and past actions are used VERY frequently to get someone lynched. It doesn't matter if they start acting town or not. They don't become townie just because they changed attitudes. You keep the role you recieved at startup. A scumslip is still a scumslip, regardless of how much they've tried to cover their tracks.

At this point in my read of the game, the Xite-Millar-Robo buddying is a little too close for comfort.

After robo's post, Chi voted Xite while simultaniously calling him his lover. (Is it her? I'm very sorry, there are no gender tags and your avatar is of the powepuff girls >.>) WTF! I don't know whether this is terrible scum play or just an innability to understand the roles. Had I been active, he would have been my vote right then.

[ZeroFang]

Page 16

Predictably, the first (and most) noteworthy thing here is millar who

suggests we lynch him to prove Xite's innocence.

I'd normally call Jester here, but it's an open game. I want to bang my head on the desk. Fidelis calls for Lynch All Liars policy lynch, than Xite suggests that we lynch him/her and millar tomorrow. Wacka points out that we as a town have been only considering Xite and millar for the past several pages. Don then suggests the obvious move for the town (hanging chi, whose been scummy since the beginning of the game). This also fits with Xite's (then) current plan of waiting until the next day to hang millar. Fidelis again suggests a policy lynch, and Don, the smarty he is (sarcasm this time), blindly follows Fidelis's advice to hang Xite. Again WTF!

Now for an overview: I highly dislike the Robo/millar/Xite threesome, but Chi's just been playing so scummily. Even worse is how everyone ignores it and votes Xite as if lynching a possible lover was better than lynching obvscum. I'm really trying to wrap my head around the thoughts that go through your brains here.

Page 17-19

Oh, God. Please help us.

Don once again changes his vote (what is that, third time? Fourth?), Chi decides millar's a better lynch than he is while not denying being scum. Millar self votes because somehow that will "prove" that Xite is scum. Yabba suggests we vote Xite because lynching him (I'm using "default" male now, I'm sorry) will result in scum death; if Xite's scum, he dies, if millar is Xite's scum buddy than HE dies. I'm on board with this logic (at the time I'm reading this).

Millar votes Xite along with many others and Xite declares his "scheme" which he refuses to reveal (I personally find this fairly scummy). The R/X/M trio begins to disolve as millar votes for his supposed lover, Xite calls Robo scummy, and Robo wishes Xite two more votes (at L-2 for Xite). Xite pleads with us to follow through with his "plan" (AtE, has some grand scheme, I find both highly scummy).

When I got up to fix a sandwich, I was reminded that, yet again, the entirety of the town forgot about everyone but Xite and millar. Chi's scummyness was forgotten, many people have been active-lurking, some people (like me) were completely absent from the game, but nobody seemed to notice. It's as if Xite's plan was to distract the town for an entire day to waste it. As soon as Xite and millar are gone (presumably lynched by the raging mob forming), we're nearly dry of leads.

Even worse, I came back to read that Xite lied to us all and claimed VT, despite claiming townie before. Millar is quick to state "Someone hammer this lying scum-bag". Convenient considering all the heat is off him now. Chi makes another pointless post stating he

would

hammer if he could (yabba unvoted Xite, preventing quicklynches).

[ZeroFang]

Page 20-22

Several people wake up and mention how scummy chi is (finally, we're getting somewhere besides the "Lynch Xite! Lynch millar!" ping pong). Xite pleads with us (again with the scummy AtE) to trust him despite lying throughout the whole game. Apparently he pleads for millar's case too, even though they aren't lovers and he himself suspects millar. The fact that Xite told us his plan renders it utterly useless, even if it was a legitimate effort to distract the scum. I'm beginning to believe Xite, but I'm still warry of his deciet.

Fidelis claims lovers with chim and states that chi really looks scummy. He then votes chi and two other people quickly hop on his wagon. Replacements swarm in with game analysies (plural of analysis

i think...

).

This brings us to the end of my read.

[ZeroFang]

VOTE: chihuahua0

Top scum pick:
chihuahua (explained in posts, doesn't post much, hops on wagons)
millar (just effing confusing, liar, distracted the whole town)
Robocopter

I'm inclined to believe Fidelis, and think we've caught the treacherous lover. I'm very hesitant to trust Xite considering how he's screwed us in the butt more times than I can count. I dislike millar, and would once again like to point out his meta as told by Robocopter (he plays a fairly sane townie). On that note, I'd like to point a bold

FoS at millar

. He's my second strong scum read. I remember I felt Robocop was suspicious, but I'm forgetting why. It's 5:30 in the morning so I'll sleep on it and remember it when I wake up (I'll ISO and read the thread again, I might drop my suspicion if I'm just seeing things). He was a weaker scum read but he was one none the less.

I'd like everyone to be ACTIVE! Lurking the game away gets us nothing but killed. Deadline is in six days, and I do believe that's plenty of time to figure things out.

[Switz]

TLDR: Don't lynch a lover because a townie will die with them.
I don't think lynching based on probability does it, it's just the same as mindless random voting. I'ld be more inclined to lynched based on suspicious actions.

Also your hate at lynching lovers: If the lover groups are dead it's just a basic game setup 10:3, nothing terrifying here. Honestly it's not the best idea, but by no means is it the worse.

Enigma:

Definition on TLDR? I'm not finding it in the wiki and I don't think it relates to any of our players... At any rate, if this directed at me, as I'm interpreting it: Yes, lynching lovers is not the worst idea available if we get the treacherous lover right away. But, if we don't, we put ourselves in a lot of trouble Days down the line because every time we lynch the mafia gets to strike and they know who the town is. If we lynch lovers today, we might lose three townies by morning, with the NK, and if we keep blindly trying to get lovers in the hope that one is treacherous, we could end up down 8 townies and down only 1 scum. That's a rather farfetched possibility, but it illustrates why targetting the lovers is dangerous unless there's an ulterior motive for believing one of them is scum.

Zerofan:

Your logic above makes sense, and it's the reason I'm still considering a Chi lynch as a last resort today. However, I'm confused as to why you're leaving Xite off your scum list and putting Millar on. You say you're hesitant to trust Xite, but then you trust him enough to make him your least favorite choice out of our lynch options today and don't even put him in the list of your top scum picks. Yes, Millar's early game play was insane, but Xite's early gameplay was flat out scummy.

wait what?
also, if you want to be lynched I can help!

Unvote, Vote Reverse Simplicity

As said above, this is literally 4 minutes after RevSim's selfvote, and is not pro-town, regardless of the reason for the anti-town selfvote.

EBWOP, the good try thing was meant for millar

Okay, it seems like 1 of these three have to be scum, but for some reason I can't see two of them as scum with any combination of them, don't ask why, just a feeling.

Don, Chi and Yabba

Next,

millar's chances of being scum are 1/6. do lovers commit suicide if their partner is lynched? cause that would mean lynching millar gives us a 33% chance of lynching scum. and considering that its millar, it doesn't sound like a bad idea. that's one to think on.

I actually really like this line of reasoning, but I just caaaaaan't lynch my luver. Cuz with him saying it so much, it must be true right?
By the way Millar, I just ISO'd you and youre definitely active lurking. That calls for suspicion.

One of the many instances where Xite "suspects" Millar but doesn't actually do anything about it.

Those are just some of the examples that appear

before

Millar goes crazy. At this point in the game, the only scummy thing Millar's done is lurk, whereas Xite has already garnered suspicion from players, including yourself, as I recall. I know Chihuahua is a good choice for a lynch because he's been acting scummy just as long as Xite if not more, but I think Xite's a better one because at this point I'm pretty convinced he's mafia and there's probably not a townie attached.

[yabbaguy]

TL;DR = Too Long; Didn't Read

Either can be a reaction to a textwall that rants for ages and bores the reader.

Or, in this case, flags the "tl;dr" version for those who don't want to read, in other words, giving them the bottom line.

More later.

[DavidParker]

Alright, I've replaced into a number of games, and this has been the way I find most effective to do so:

Event by Event Analysis followed by Player by Player Analysis:

Events:
RVS - nothing to special. A small wagon on yabba/wacka/shattered_viewpoint.. first one to not follow the wagoning is muthaa... hmm.
Robo vs Yabbaguy - some good ol' bickering here. Conclusion?? yabba seems town, neutral on robo.
Reverse Simplicity selfvote - Well it was a RNG (he claimed), if it wasn't , it doesnt seem like a scum-tactic, as it was used to create some discussion. neutral leaning town conclusion on RS for this.


Players:
Yabbaguy - Yes, I went there with the uppercase as well. Alright, he's first because he's the first one to really get talking and involved.. He makes some dumb comments almost fishing for town points "oh dont confirm so lovers can use their qt" this is either someone lookin for town points or someone doing a SOFT claim of lover (very soft). However, based on his play in another game of mine (slight meta) his early game style makes me think he is town, although i say that cautiously as he was an IC in that game, so that could have affected his play.

chi - second mention! makes a scum tell.. out of nothing.. ugh?? (robo vs yabba argument). Also, then claims its a random vote!??!?! WHAT?!?!? and claims he didnt want to wagon... oh dear.. this guy admits to trying not to seem scummy. Only scum try to not seem scummy. town just do what they do.

Shatterd_viewpoint- i like you. Honorary mention.

Millar - oh dear. I managed to find another game with you. To those who don't know, he got stuck as a VT in my last game he subbed in, and as a result played the game as a joke, bandwagoned for no reason, didnt read the thread, and then self hammered. Just got to his "drunk" soft claim as a lover. my verdict?? its a slight scum tell. mutha also seems scummyish for pointing it out, and asking, rather than either ignoring it or attackin him for it..


Alright.

/break.

Just finished page 6. Thoughts so far:
Chi is the scummiest and would make a good lynch.
Millar would make a GREAT policy lynch. (and possible scum)

[DavidParker]

Umm, so i skimmed the past 10 pages, because i'm out of it and fallin asleep.
just my initial thoughts: miller is probably a lover, i'm surprised he didnt play along with xine , that seems like something he would have done.. I believe xine is a VT for this claim, and was hoping VT millar would play along.. (and draw a night kill). Miller not playing along makes me think millar is not a VT. possibly scum.

Few scum-ish reads. Wacka being one of them, but that was just from skim reading so its mostly the vibes/gut feeling i got from his posts.

and yeah, my thoughts stand.

millar is a good policy lynch if we agree on it (give his lover a chance to claim if he is a lover, then we dont have to policy lynch)
chi would be a good lynch as well (and that would mean millar's lover doesnt have to claim if we agree on this, assumin millar is a lover)

[Wacka Alpaca]

Hey new replacements, that was a long page...
Also @DavidParker, we have played together before (When I was using my old way of playing) and you did not like me (because of that).

For people who don't know the meta on me, I came from another site that was EXTREMELY hard on people, and would lynch anyone for any reason, as long as it made sense, so I became very good at defending myself ALL the time. That, appears scummy on this site, so I stopped doing it, also, I used to post (Like everyone else at the other site) very long "Analysis" posts (Akin to what Switz did, but longer, and with more quotes) every other day. People (here) call this "Text Walling". Another thing I stopped doing.

So David, that gut feeling is probably your memory of me from the other game.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

onto actual discussion:
I have always been on Millars case, and to an extent, Xite's. But for some reason, Enigma's posts made me want to back off of Millar, and press him. I have to go out for the day (Work and SHiiiiT) but I'll post some things on enigma when I get home, I think some of his analysis seemed scummy, especially the way he didn't directly quote, and just recapped (Putting his own spin on it).

[Robocopter87]

David, why did you get a town on Yabba and a nuetral on me when we both were bickering? I don't see how that works out.

Welcome replacements, bunch o walls but I read them, mighta missed some thing or two but I think I understand for the most part.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Vote Count #13

• chihuahua0 (smashbro_of_the_SSS, don_johnson, Fidelis, Sanxion1, Robocopter87, ZeroFang) 6 (L-4)
  millar13 (Mr.Sandman, chihuahua0) 2 (L-8)
  Robocopter87 (Xite9) 1 (L-9)
  Xite91 (Switz, Pittbunny, millar13, Muthaa, Shattered Viewpoint) 5 (L-5)

Not voting: Enigma, DavidParker, yabbaguy, Zajnet, Wacka Alpaca

With 19 alive, 10 votes are required for a lynch.

V/LA:

Deadline is Wednesday, July 21st at 8pm UK time.

Activity Check!

Xcite91 has requested replacement.

Prod Count:

Muthaa, Pittbunny, Reverse Simplicity, youngminii - 1

[DavidParker]

David, why did you get a town on Yabba and a nuetral on me when we both were bickering? I don't see how that works out.

Welcome replacements, bunch o walls but I read them, mighta missed some thing or two but I think I understand for the most part.

cuz i have just finished a game with yabba and feel more confident in getting a read on him.

@wacka: i dont really recall a game with you.. it might have been some messed up theme game that i replaced out of (the only game i replaced out of, cuz i had no idea what the heck ppl were talking about cuz of the theme)

[Zajnet]

I've been unexpectedly AFK since I replaced in, but I should be good to go now. My gut reads are that chihuahua and SV are scum. I'll post a better explanation later tonight.

[Switz]

Okay, well the TLDR is technically right...except it focuses in on one part of what I was saying to the exclusion of everything else. At any rate, I'm not saying we should vote Xite because the probability that he is scum is the best, I'm saying we should do so because he's acting really scummy, and the probability that he is scum justifies the lynch further. It's a piece of evidence, not total justification.

I'm also just now noticing that Enigma is the replacement for RevSim, who I pointed out before as acting sort of scummy. I really wish Enigma wasn't V/LA now but I suppose there's nothing we can do about that.

On to David's posts; I'm agreeing with/understanding most of what you're saying, but would it be possible for you to expand a bit on what you're thinking with your honorable mention on Shattered? It seems to me like people are getting either a very good vibe or a very bad vibe from him, which seems a bit strange in and of itself.

@everyone:

Focusing back in on the Xite|Millar|Chi thing, I think maybe it'd be good for those of us who haven't explicitly done so to rank these three in terms of which would be the best lynch. It might help us find a compromise that works best.

Mine is:

Xite
Chi
Millar

I know this is slightly out of whack with my probabilities that I mentioned before, but, upon further review, the case against Chi is looking better than the one against Millar, and we also have the benefit of knowing who Chi's Lover is/that Chi has a Lover.

[ZeroFang]

@Switz
I put millar on the list because he's lied extensively, this isn't his townie meta, and has generally been annoying (not a scum tell, but true), distracting, and confusing. He then offered to vote himself, voted himself, and tried to get others to use the town's lynch to kill himself to prove Xite as scum.

Xite has called millar out several times as being scum, yet without voting for him. I agree, this is cause for suspicion that perhaps I overlooked. Millar's tried to get Xite lynched for this, however, which I find very OMGUS-ish.

Looking back at my late night post, I'm going to replace Robocop with Xite and bump him up. I didn't find anything too particularly scummy about Robo's posts, apart from his immediate dismissal of millar's early scummy play and his possible buddying with millar/Xite. Xite get's a bump, mostly because I read this post and realized all the stuff I missed by only going from where I last posted.

So now, my top three scum picks looks more like this:
chihuahua
Xite
millar

Interestingly enough, I didn't have to change it to reflect your latest post, Switz. I'm on board with not lynching chi just yet (knowledge is power after all), but if we're going to do that I'd at least like his lover's slot to be speaking. He's basically a nigh confirmed member of the town, and we should use that viewpoint to our advantage.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xite

[Wacka Alpaca]

First, the analysis on Enigma has been put on hiatus untill he has more posts to actually, analyse. Which is unfortunate, becuase he is on vacay.
Second, @Switz, my list is exactly the same as yours, Millar is reading more "Misguided/Retarded Townie" than scum for me, however, he is still more scummy than anyone else (With the exception of the other two on the list).

So that list again:
1) Xite
2) Chihuahuahuahua
3) Millar

[Pittbunny]

Xite at the top, no preference on the other two. It is one thing to start stupidity like Millar did, but an entirely different thing to continue it just as it was about to die off like Xite did. Chichi is naturally scummy from my reads of Chichi's games, similar but not quite like you in Newbie941 Wacka, so I'm not seeing as much of a scummy=scum correlation as some of you others. Robo is a much more suitable candidate than Chichi or Millar in my opinion, for completing the drama triangle and more or less assisting Xite in making Millar look as scum/stupidlover as possible. I won't assert that the two are buddies, but I do believe that there was opportunism at work in the setup.