Mini 1001 - Guys, Pt. 2 [adult] Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Ythill]

Also, hi Claus. Nice avatar you have there. >=D

[Midnight's Sorrow]

*facepalm*

Why oh WHY was my first vote today not on DTM? He was completely absent through the whole Mafu claim debacle, only posting a post saying he was 'catching up' and would 'post sometime today', a day in which he said he had time for doing such a thing. The others in the same boat(as far as not saying anything about it) are UT and BC, but UT seems like it was lost interest in the game, and BC not so much because he hammered(Though that isn't much of anything really). But DTM? I don' so. Doesn't fly with me. Sounds like a scum partner who didn't want to get in the nitty gritty that his other partner was in, thus saying nothing on the matter.

Unvote
Vote: DTM

[Amished]

@Amished - Why TBM? Who else did you consider investigating last night?

@Claus: TBM replaced Inflatable; after D1 I wanted confirmation so I could kinda shove it all in your faces. Also, after yesterday it didn't look like he was gonna be an obv-lynch so it wouldn't have been a wasted investigation.

Also, I did mean Ythill; he was the one that softclaimed.

Second to lastly: I believe Ythan, and I wouldn't mind trusting him on Exi. Going that fast without discussion just seemed too quick which is why I didn't hammer (and why I withheld my vote from a guilty result; planning on putting my vote there anyways)

Lastly (and I believe this will clear up quite a bit): My full claim is Ythan. Essentially I'm so knowledgeable about everything I can either bestow my knowledge to another player (if they're town, I'll become a mason with them) or if they're scum they're not worthy of "my" knowledge and I'll know it by looking at them. I only had one-shot; and it was an either/or situation.

I did ask, and there would've been a chance for me to get my 1-shot back (but I'm *assuming* that would only happen if I would've targeted Mafuyu as he commuted). I also got my result 24 hours *before* the deadline, which both leads me to believe that scum only get Night Talk (as I'd then get time to chat with my mason buddy) AND that there's no roleblocker of any sort (since night actions could probably have changed). I didn't ask if I could switch my target, but I assumed I wouldn't have been able to since that would've been pretty dickish (which ironically fits into the theme of the game).

I tried to hint at my role (I'm shitty at that though) by buddying up to Ythan so much early game (since he's my role) and by talking about his soft-claim late in the day yesterday.

[Nobody Special]

Ythill: I trust you enough (at this particular moment) that I will keep my vote on Exi.

What are your thoughts about scumMS potentially unvoting scumpal Exi and now going after DTM?

[BloodCovenent]

FUCK! I haven't caught up yet... i just got back from the midnight of Inception... good movie... but now i'm fucked for this game >.<

I work tomorrow 1-8pm and then i have a family reunion from saturday until sunday. expect little content until then.

[Ythill]

Trust Ythill: 2 (Ami, NS)
Massclaim: 0
Neither: 0
Please weigh in on this if you haven't.

What are your thoughts about scumMS potentially unvoting scumpal Exi and now going after DTM?

My town read on MS hasn't changed. Now that we have an extremely high percentage scum in Exi, plus a coinflip between Ami/TBM, I don't see a reason to look beyond these people for scum. If I'm wrong about Exi and/or both coinflip players are town, then we can start looking at other theories. From where I'm sitting, this game is already over. Winning lynch order is Exi, TBM/Ami, Ami/TBM.

Again... due to the likely town win we have locked up here, I don't mind engaging in full disclosure today, which means you can all grok this as well as I do before we act and I'll answer any questions you have in full (including "read the rules"), but I will only do so as part of a massclaim.

[Ythill]

@Amished:

If it helps you keep the Yth names straight, feel free to call me Fabio.

[Claus]

Hey guys... a bit longer post.

@Ythill:

Thanks for the props. One question, what do you think about the very quick wagon that followed your vote on Exilon? Does it make you finch? Not even a little bit?

I guess with everyone agreeing happily with Ythill I'll be the voice of dissent. The paranoid in me finds this:

Meanwhile, Ami has soft-claimed JoaT and handed us a near coin-flip (Ami or TBM is scum more than 90% of the time, with strange busdriver/framer/etcetera theories where they could both be town). Exi is the higher percentage lynch today but the coinflip is enough of a backup that this game seems to be over with a town win (lynch Exi for a likely 7:1, lynch Ami or TBM for 5:1, and the other if the first is town for 3:1, leaving a mislynch to spare in case of improbable caveats) and so I think the risk of role-claiming is justified. However, if we are going to out our three most powerful roles, I think we should massclaim.

A bit too good to be true - I hate hate hate making plans for 3 lynchs in a row like that, specially based in a "X is scum, if not, Y is" and "trust me". Of course, you're not scum with Maf, and you are not getting in the hot chair today. But a SK is not out of the realm of possibility, so I would like to have a role claim you can be accountable for later, and I don't really care for a mass claim at the moment (weakly against).

One last question. Suppose you are wrong about Exi/Ami/TBM ending the game. Where/What would you look for?

==== Since Ythill is around I'll post this now - I'll start working on a post towards other players/my opinions ====

[Claus]

@Exilon

-- The paranoid in me wants to disbelieve Ythill's motives, but an ISO of Exilon makes him look terrible. He mentions Jesters in his last post of the day. Tries to throw cheap mud at NS and MS while Maf is being dragged into the gallows. Contributed very litte. The early deflection of the comments on Maf's random vote in ISO 4 also doesn't help, when added to the anti-maf sentiment.

However, I do find it interesting that "The Mods" is a valid lynch target.

MODS: Is "the mods" a valid target for a lynch (not a "no-lynch"), or was that votecount a joke?

- it says nothing on Exi's alignment, though.

Waiting on Exilon's re-read of the game.

@MS-Wagon

When I was re-reading the thread during the night, I tried to concentrate on the people who were - in some way or another - trying to drag Maf's lynch down. MS wagon consisted of "Exilon, NS, TBM, Ythan".

Ythan bothers me a little bit. His vote on MS was legit as far as it really seem like someone he wanted to vote for, but he completely looked past everything that happened about Maf. He even gets mad about MS making Maf's claim seem safer than it is, but does not seem to comment on the claim itself, or question Maf directly. @Ythan any comment on this?

NS first voted Mafyu in iso 50, using as reason her second post. It was bandwagon for its own sake, when there was not much pressure for a Maf wagon, so I give him some townie cookies for that. Rest of iso is not particularly scummy. @NS I would like to hear more your case on MS. Can you summ it up in a post? Right now I still see him as clueless newbie town.

IP/TBM - IP pushes Mafyu pretty hard in the beginning of the game, harder than I would expect a buddy to do at this stage. Somewhat lazy mafia player, but I don't get a scummy vibe from IP posts yet. TBM opens up voting for Maf, and pushing the claim. Hmmm, except for the cop-guilty, I would think IP/TBM is even townier than NS. Anyone would like to make a one post case on why IP/TBM is scummy?

Funny... I started this post thinking that either NS or TBM would come out looking scummy, and not really paying attention to Ythan, but now my opinion is reversed. I still think that Exilon is far scummier, but

IGMEO Ythan

, and I need a close re-read on Ami.


=====

Ok, Ran out of time to write/read. TL;DR version: Exilon is deservedly scummy, and I would probably be happily voting him if it were not for Ythill's "Please believe me!" brouhaha - Damn it, Ythill, couldn't you just have said that you were voting Exi for his ties with Maf and left it at it?

Out of the others in the Maf Counterwagon of MS, Ythan is slightly more scummy than NS and IP/TBM for mostly ignoring Maf during D1. Got actually a pro-townish vibe from NS and TBM, cop-claim pending.

Could those on the MS-is-scum team give me the memo?

Next on ClausTV - need to re-re-reread Amished to see how much I trust his claim, and read those who weren't either voting Maf or MS by the end of the day. Stay tuned!

Oh, and I hate not voting, but if I were to vote anyone now, it would be Exi, he might get quicklynched by Ythill's minions, and I don't want the day to end before my fears of him are a bit eased. Is this love?

[Exilon]

@Ex:

Who do you think is scum? Why?

I still have to read a little better, but I'm feeling confortable with pinning Amished as scum, due to his behaviour day 1 towards Mafuyu. On the other side, there's obviously MS because of the way he's been playing and for his vote on Mafuyu, which seems like a weird atempt at bussing. I don't think he gave off a "newbie type of vibe" as Claus stated. Also, his Post #751 seems like a sudden moment of clarity in which he votes DTM for, on lack of a better term, lurking.

@Exilon TBM is kinda right, your accusation list this morning is a bit too bitter - like, your comments make everyone in the wagon look scummy (except for BC). MS? Ythill? Really?

It just happens that practically all of them seem like bussing because most of the votes are practically contentless. It's like everyone just "agreed" to Ythill and lynched him right away. Perfect place for scum to hide, even if they bussed their scumbuddy.

---

It seems we've had some developments. Exilon is high percentage scum, I'd put him @ 80% or more. I can clearly show how, but it would require a full-claim from me. Proving that full claim is likely to out a second power role. Meanwhile, Ami has soft-claimed JoaT and handed us a near coin-flip (Ami or TBM is scum more than 90% of the time, with strange busdriver/framer/etcetera theories where they could both be town). Exi is the higher percentage lynch today but the coinflip is enough of a backup that this game seems to be over with a town win (lynch Exi for a likely 7:1, lynch Ami or TBM for 5:1, and the other if the first is town for 3:1, leaving a mislynch to spare in case of improbable caveats) and so I think the risk of role-claiming is justified. However, if we are going to out our three most powerful roles, I think we should massclaim.

The other option is that y'all can trust me on Exi and we can work the rest of this out tomorrow. I doubt there's anyone here who thinks I'm scum after what happened with Maf. I caught her, I drove her to claim, I considered her claim transparently, then I drove her lynch to completion (imaginary ponies FTW), and then she flipped scum-power. Is there anyone who thinks I was bussing her? Remember, you're not just trusting me to be town here, but to be correct as well.

My opinion might be obviously biased on this, but since I know that my scum-percentage is 0%, there's only one option for me to consider. In any case, I trust you to be Town, just not correct. The numbers end up as follows: 6:2 if I'm town, 7:1 if I'm town. In Ami or TBM case, we end up with 1 on the other side

no matter what

. Instead of doing the numbers in strictly manners, one should also think about the information that's left behind from scum, although this is a bit more subjective, and that, no matter the mislynch numbers, we caught scum.

Personally, if say, instead of me, you pointed Claus out as being that likely scum, I'd still support the lynch of Ami/TBM because I feel that's guaranteed. Also there's no real need to out major power roles in that case, right?

---

Quick ninja note, claus: That Jester mention was because, in our last game, I was a Jester and I won the game D1 because people were 'dumb'.

[The Mods]

However, I do find it interesting that "The Mods" is a valid lynch target.

MODS: Is "the mods" a valid target for a lynch (not a "no-lynch"), or was that votecount a joke?

That votecount was super-duper-serial. SUPER. DUPER. SERIAL.

[Ythill]

Trust Ythill: 2 (Ami, NS)
Massclaim: 0
Neither: 1 (Exi)
Please weigh in on this if you haven't.

Damn it, Ythill, couldn't you just have said that you were voting Exi for his ties with Maf and left it at it?

Sorry. I probably would have if not for Ami's claim but, like I said, this game seems to be over except the technicalities and I don't want to squander it playing cat and mouse with y'all. Please state clearly whether you want to trust me on Exi, massclaim, or neither.

My opinion: Exi is 80% scum. Ami/TBM is a coinflip. I need to fullclaim if we want to openly discuss why Exi is scum. MS should claim, both because he is the most likely mislynch and so that we can openly discuss his role and targets. If a town busdriver, redirector, or something like that targeted Exi, Ami, or TBM, that person also needs to claim. Since so many claims are necesarry for full disclosure, we should also seek the secondary benefits of an early mass-claim, including forcing scum into early fake-claims and optimizing the town'd night game. Anyone who thinks I am scum who hyper-bussed a PR buddy on D1 is either scum or on drugs. Anyone who thinks I am a SK clamoring for attention before and after a night of no kills is being silly.

I'd like to remind everyone here that Maf-Exi-Ami connections look pretty solid but, at this point, I'm not interested in other scumhunting until the above is settled. It will only serve to distract us from a very likley town win (maybe even a sweep).

[Amished]

@Ex:

Who do you think is scum? Why?

I still have to read a little better, but I'm feeling confortable with pinning Amished as scum, due to his behaviour day 1 towards Mafuyu. On the other side, there's obviously MS because of the way he's been playing and for his vote on Mafuyu, which seems like a weird atempt at bussing. I don't think he gave off a "newbie type of vibe" as Claus stated. Also, his Post #751 seems like a sudden moment of clarity in which he votes DTM for, on lack of a better term, lurking.

Oh? Do you expect Mafuyu to only concentrate on his scumbuddy? Did any of my actions suggest I didn't actually believe that he was a survivor? What about my actions made you think that I didn't buy his claim as a survivor? What do you think of my roleclaim now?

@Fabio: That should help out a lot, thanks. I should call Ythan Batman just to be really sure...

[Ythill]

What do you think of my roleclaim now?

I want to answer this one. It makes very little sense if you and Exi are scum together, which is strange because a Maf-Exi-Ami scumteam makes the most sense otherwise. Your claim does make sense if you are town and TBM is scum with Exi. It makes even better sense if you are scum with TBM, but that would mean we have a ~20% situation on Exilon and I'm going to have some questions/critique for your team in the postgame.

[TheButtonmen]

Trust:

Ythill

Though depending on the Exi flip I think tommorow mass-claim may be in order.

@Ythill:

I know there's no way to confirm it now but could you clearify what you meant by the rules thing? T'was before my time and I didn't see it explained in-thread during my read through.

[Ythill]

Trust Ythill: 3 (Ami, NS, TBM)
Massclaim: 0
Neither: 1 (Exi)
Please weigh in on this if you haven't.

Our lurkers need to post, goddamnit.

[TheButtonmen]

Your continuing to ignore the quoted question gives me a sad.

[Ythill]

Awwwww.

I suppose there's not much harm in it at this point. During the confirmation phase, rule #1 (starting and ending states) began with the phrase "It is now night." This game was limited night start, like a cop head start but with all non-killing roles able to act.

[Ythill]

I should add that part of the above (all non-killing) is speculation on my part. One aspect of my role is an active action which was confirmed to have succeeded on N0, and I am not a cop or cop-like in any way. Meanwhile, nobody died except the pre-game NPC.

[Claus]

Please state clearly whether you want to trust me on Exi, massclaim, or neither.

I don't trust you. I wanna lynch Exilon on his own merits, I don't think a massclaim is in order, I think YOU should claim before the end of the day. I think it was all pretty clear on my previous post - don't like your manipulation.

[Claus]

Also, Ythill, thoughts in Ythan ignoring Maf during D1? Why do you think TBM is scum, other than the Cop claim?

[Ythan]

@Ythan: I believe you need to full-claim. I will as well when you do; I never leave soft-claims go over a day.

I did not soft-claim and I'm not going to full-claim.

Oh Ythill.

But something is making me pause here. He hasn't been hammered yet, which either means he's scum, that scum is already on his wagon, or the people lurking have yet to come in with the hammer.

Or this isn't fucking lylo.

Hey Guyse!

Your avatar is a little off for this thread.

@Ythan:

Exlpain why you believe we have a vig after a night of no kills.

I don't. But I'd like one. And I'd like them to kill MS.

Ythan bothers me a little bit. His vote on MS was legit as far as it really seem like someone he wanted to vote for, but he completely looked past everything that happened about Maf. He even gets mad about MS making Maf's claim seem safer than it is, but does not seem to comment on the claim itself, or question Maf directly. @Ythan any comment on this?

Yeah, I was tunneling MS.

[dramonic]

V/LA for the weekend

[Ythill]

Trust Ythill: 4 (Ami, NS, TBM, Claus)
Massclaim: 0
Neither: 1 (Exi)
Please weigh in on this if you haven't.

@Ythan:

Stance?

@Claus:

I put you down as Trust Ythill because it's a euphamism for lynch Exi today. You don't actually have to trust me. And I'm not full-claiming unless we're massclaiming or I'm @ L-1 with a hammer waiting. Good luck with the latter.

Was Ythan ignoring Maf? I haven't reread D1 yet but I seem to remember him espousing a lynch-all-survivors philosophy as soon as she claimed, and then throwing a fit when MS disagreed with him about it. I don't understand your point. You want to hang Exi. I'm agreeing that he's scum and saying my info is even more reliable than yours. Plus we have an Ami cop guilty on TBM. Ythan is important because?

Also, I don't have another reason to suspect TBM off the top of my head. The evidence in the thread heavily suggests that Ami is the third scumbag. I don't know why the hell he'd claim cop with his buddy under fire, and that's got me a little twiggy, but whatever. We can discuss the other people in a bit. First I want to see if there's enough votes in support of an Exi lynch or if I'm going to have to talk everyone into massclaiming.

[Claus]

Was Ythan ignoring Maf? I haven't reread D1 yet but I seem to remember him espousing a lynch-all-survivors philosophy as soon as she claimed, and then throwing a fit when MS disagreed with him about it. I don't understand your point.

You want to hang Exi. I'm agreeing that he's scum and saying my info is even more reliable than yours. Plus we have an Ami cop guilty on TBM. Ythan is important because?

Because town doesn't have all the info, and town never know if they will be alive the next day to continue their "lynch to victory" plan to the end. Your plan is basically "lynch Exi because he is scummy, then lynch TBM because Ami claimed, and then lynch Ami because he was lying about TBM". While I agree with the first step, there are a few holes and a lot of lack of information in the rest, and I'm interested in at least checking them before the end of the day. I want the paper trail of those questions and answers on the thread before we go into night.

You, on the other hand seem to be interested in ending the day as fast as possible, and that stinks. I want to be sure to draw attention to this in case you sneak your way into a three-way ending - call that my plan B to your "victory plan"

For example, TBM is the second in your plan, but you don't care about questioning the cop claim, even if you don't suspect TBM for nothing else, and you say Ami is scummy. By the way, can you make a summary of your case on Ami, or point me to a post of yours where such case is? Ythan was on the competing wagon for Maf, and mostly ignored her - so I want at least for you to show me that Ami and TBM are more lynchworthy than him (cop claim pending).

BTW, don't worry too much about the number of votes. Exi got to L-1 before I even posted for the first time, so theoretically there are enough interested people to finish him. I will vote for him once I think we have generated a bit more info for today.

===========

@Ami - You are the other person with a night action who claimed. Can you confirm/Deny that we had a night 0?

Also who are the people saying that MS is scum? I want them to show me what they think I'm missing by thinking that he is town.

===========

I'll be away until Monday. I might be around for answering questions/comments, but I won't have the time for a deeper read. Still owing y'all the Ami re-read.