Newbie 985 Game over

[Kalofer]

/confirm

[Kalofer]

wow, it's getting heated already.

Perhaps David was being sarcastic in his last statement or was making a lot out of nothing. I still vote for the typo though, "o" is pretty close to "i", assuming he has a standard keyboard.

By the way am I allowed to post this (seeing as the game hasn't started yet).

[Kalofer]

Vote: FakeGod

...for being a heretic.

[Kalofer]

Or you can click on the preview button and add lots of other stuff.

[Kalofer]

The asking about /conform? Yeah, I've never played on mafiascum before, so I've never seen it. I can tell Parker's a joker now, but before I had no clue. The only other time I've played mafia on a forum, it was incredibly aggressive. Aggressive as in, a new post would appear every 20 minutes or less during the day. If you miss out for about 12 hours, you need to catch up on 50ish posts. A typical game of mafia lasted for about 2500 posts (Huge games), so I'm still getting used to these sets of rules and small games. Your vote is fair enough though, as I can see you're just testing my reaction under pressure. You don't seem too scummy

If he were scum, and if this is his first game it would be logical for Abe to humbly back down when pressured by an IC in an attempt to divert attention away from himself. Despite its length the post contains little useful information (excluding Abe's history of the game), size after all can be deceiving seemingly adding grandeur or weight to something of little importance. However I personally doubt that those were Abe's intentions and believe he is town as I find it much more probable that seeing that his "aggression" (as he put it) was only working against him he decided to make amends and back down. What strikes me most however is the "too scummy" bit at the end, does that mean you see something scummy in Zach (and if you do please share it) or was it was merely an expression as when people say "quite" or "not bad" as a form of everyday speech when the words can easily be omitted? (I hope you see what I'm getting at lol)

Anyway, early indication is that you're town. I'm basing this off of something I noted on your play-style recently.

You're basing this off of his recent play - style. Abe mentioned this was his first game, did you mean his recent as in very recent (a few posts back) play-style or have you met each other before? And unless it's a secret, what is this "something" you noted in his play-style?

[Kalofer]

Busy with school? Which hemisphere do you live in or don't you have summer holidays were you're learning?

[Kalofer]

DavidParker
Oh trust me, I'm normally much more normal. Make of that what you will.

Did anyone question your normality and if not should we? Can you also define normal and not normal please? Are we supposed to make something of this statement or is it scum trying to confuse us with irrelevance? I would be very happy if you could answer these questions (don't these smiley's just look creepy lol). Oh and by the way what is this arguing between you and Zach regarding normality and bi - polarity, I don't find it important (if it is can someone please explain how), on the contrary I find it suspicious that an SE and moreover an IC are quarreling over something of little importance as if you are distancing yourselves and trying to appear like active scumhunters.

@NashiNashi, thanks for the info.

[Kalofer]

Dammit, I still can't quote properly lol

[Kalofer]

Yes, that is more or less what I did, shouldn't we question everything?

[Kalofer]

David, that post was the funniest thing I've ever seen on this site yet, I LOLed so much, honestly I think you should become a writer (if you aren't one already, I mean I know you're a write but I mean...you know what I mean).

Tvellalott, my mum (who was passing by) said your avatar looked handsome, however I'm also puzzled as to why you unvoted, were you perhaps tired of waiting for zombeh to respond seeing that your "pressure" vote was going nowhere?

Zach, to be honest I didn't cast suspicion on your inquiries, I cast suspicion on the reason for the inquiry as I didn't think there was a point in you inquiring and now looking back in retrospect I see that my questions were kinda stupid too (please forgive me I'm a big noob) as they were kind of rhetorical and too philosophical (as in with the what is normal and not normal I was referring to behaviour in the game in general not specifically to David's behaviour). David was playing the game quite dangerously with his excessive use of humour and devil-may-care attitude and that post of his surprised me mainly due to its seriousness and the fact that no one said he wasn't normal as if his facade cracked.

David, yes I'm not happy that you're not answering my questions. I don't know what I wanted to achieve with them, I guess I wanted to see what your reaction would be and then I'd go somewhere from there. Oh and thanks for the ferris wheel ride, I haven't been in one of those in ages.

[Kalofer]

Zach, what's your opinion of FakeGod?

[Kalofer]

FakeGod:

So........because I'm trying to make you look suspicious without acting on the suspicions I'm trying to create, you suddenly think I'm town?

......... o.0

Erm no, actually he unvoted Tvellalott which means he's probably going to vote for you and put you on L-1 if he finds something else that's scummy about you. However he will not put you at L-1 because I am

Unvote

-ing as I don't think you are scum, you are certainly suspicious but as of yet not suspicious enough for me to have innocent blood on my hands (key words here being: as of yet), I don't like the fact that you didn't participate much and I also don't like the fact that you're pointing the finger at Zach after I asked him a simple question, it was an open question and I was merely looking for his professional opinion which was very similar to mine. Buuuuuut, I am more inclined to believe that you are a newbie town who doesn't know how to defend himself (I tried a similar defense to yours...totally backfired, even though I was town, because from what I've learned so far aggression seemingly leads to more aggression).

Abe27342:
The ONLY time he has any response with some sort of content pertaining to the game IMO, is when he's directly called out. That's every single post of fakeGod's, along with Kalofer's vote on him at the beginning. FakeGod responded with (possibly) an OMGUS vote. Also, his vote on me is quite hypocritical. This is really the biggest lead I have right now, so VOTE: FakeGod

Abe, I really don't get your logic. Either I'm too stupid or blind (or both) to understand it or it just doesn't add up. Firstly, in a lot of the posts you quoted, Fake wasn't called out. Secondly, it may have been an OMGUS vote, but it was a random OMGUS in the RVS and therefore is it of much relevance? I noticed it was OMGUS but I didn't think it was important and besides he unvoted soon after. And thirdly I don't see the hypocrisy in his voting for you, this is how my dictionary (wordweb) defined hypocrisy:
1. An expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction
2. Insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have
I.E. I don't see how he's hypocritical.

Nikanor would you mind sharing your scum read with everyone else and explaining why you think Fake is scum (assuming that's who you think is scum)
And David, I can't wait for your next post which will hopefully be more logic-infused and state your reasons for believing Fake is town.

[Kalofer]

FakeGod wrote:

Abe27342 wrote:Vote: NashiNashi
Anything you have to offer? So far you've only posted a /confirm, so either you haven't checked up on the thread in a day or are lurking.



I think this could be scum looking for a easy target (like a lurker) to attack early on, trying to give a town-impression.

Unvote, Vote:Abe27342

I'm pretty sure he (FakeGod) meant that NashiNashi was lurking and that you were scum for picking on him/her (sorry), not that you were the lurker and that's what confused me with the whole hypocrisy thing...I hope we've sorted that out because I don't want to be accused of sporting double - standards and conversing about something pointless (which is what I have been nagging people on about lol).

[Kalofer]

damn I suck at this quote stuff (sorry, all I know is how to use the quote button in preview and then I just copy + paste).

[Kalofer]

Mod, thanks for that, I really appreciate your help.

No no no, you've got it all wrong, firstly it's 3 sentences (long sentences but 3 nonetheless). Secondly, the only reason I unvoted him is because I don't think he's scummy enough, because in my eyes everything scummy he has done can be excused with being a newbie town (except the lurking bit, which I guess can be real - life occupations or if not is the only thing that can't be excused, but I'm not willing to lynch someone solely based on lurking and not this early anyway). And yes it doesn't compute because you didn't understand it in the way I intended, that newbie town stuff at the end of the quote was about my previous game.

[Kalofer]

Why is that scummy? I gave my own reasons as to why I think he could be scum and then I gave my reasons as to why he may not be scum, isn't that what we're supposed to do? Then I defended him from Abe's accusations because they didn't make sense to me and since I believe Fake is town I wouldn't want everyone voting for him because of Abe's statements which I don't think were a definite scum read. And I'd also want to know what this metaphor or whatever it is means.

it looks like Kalofer-scum is defending FakeGod-town for credits to use at the arcade later.

[Kalofer]

Why is that scummy? I gave my own reasons as to why I think he could be scum and then I gave my reasons as to why he may not be scum, isn't that what we're supposed to do? Then I defended him from Abe's accusations because they didn't make sense to me and since I believe Fake is town I wouldn't want everyone voting for him because of Abe's statements which I don't think were a definite scum read.

No, that's not what you did. You pointed to the same thing and said that you thought him both scummy and town for it. I'll even use quotes for this:

I also don't like the fact that you're pointing the finger at Zach after I asked him a simple question

Buuuuuut, I am more inclined to believe that you are a newbie town who doesn't know how to defend himself (I tried a similar defense to yours...totally backfired, even though I was town, because from what I've learned so far aggression seemingly leads to more aggression).

Those are talking about the same post, as far as I can tell. If they're not, please enlighten me; otherwise you are scum.

I really, really, REALLY don't get it, you said "You pointed to the SAME thing and said that you thought him both scummy and town for it." But I don't see how I pointed to the SAME thing as I said that it is suspicious that he pointed the finger at zach and yes it was pretty suspicious, zach said it himself (or at least implied it) but then I said that my overall opinion of him is that he is town because he doesn't know how to defend himself because he pointed the finger back at zach.

I'm saying that it looks like you're defending FakeGod-town so that you can point back and say "I was opposed to FakeGod's lynch, and he was town, so I must also be town," while trying to add suspicion to the wagon to push through a lynch.

This makes a lot of sense but it's not true, things aren't as complex as that, I just simply don't believe that FakeGod is mafia. This is mainly due to my opinion of the game. I see Day 1 as a mostly probability based phase of the game and unless I see something that in my opinion clearly portrays someone as scum I won't commit to voting, unless it's late into the day. For that reason I unvoted FakeGod.

[Kalofer]

Wait I think I see what you meant, but my opinion still stands. Basically the fact is this: FakeGod pointed the finger at Zach after Zach gave his condemning (excuse me if this isn't the right word to use) opinion of him. What you are saying is that I both cast suspicion at this and defended him and yes that is true, because there are two view points to the whole thing a) he could be scum pointing the finger at Zach
b) he could be town defending himself in a bad way
I lean towards b, he could have felt betrayed or angry and thus attacked Zach not knowing how this compromises himself (I did this in my previous game as I mentioned and it didn't work well), and frankly I don't think scum would be that careless.

[Kalofer]

What, no posts yet...Seriously? Wtf?

Fake, don't play dumb.

[Kalofer]

So Abe, is there anything you'd like to say to or about me now after re-reading the thread?

[Kalofer]

@people who's not voting: please vote whoever you think is scum, or I'll take your stance as pro no lynch

...And?

[Kalofer]

I really don't know who to vote for.

[Kalofer]

troubling in what way?

[Kalofer]

Yes that's true, I myself don't know who to think is actually scum. That's mainly because whenever I find something for which to criticise someone in my mind, the immediate defense for that person also appears and as a result I can't figure out if he's town or mafia. Two things about me are that I hate and try to never deal with absolutes and that I don't like making mistakes and a third is that I treat a vote very seriously (for some reason). And because of this I have so far withheld my vote. Now that you bring it up however, I'm thinking what the heck. Right now I find FakeGod and David to be most suspicious (though not in that order), Fake because I'm starting to believe he is playing dumb (after skimming a previous game of his) and because now that I think about it his previous behaviour seems scummier than my defense of it could excuse and David because of his behaviour so far. But the more I am prompted to think of them as scum the more I turn my attention towards Tvell, Nishi and zombeh who could easily be scum under the guises of townies. In short I am indecisive and very mixed up but since it is a game after all VOTE: FakeGod

[Kalofer]

What seriously, where did I screw up?

[Kalofer]

None of my games have been "my games" up to now and as to my scum partner, why that's you of course

[Kalofer]

Please let me know why I'm scummy before I lynched, I really don't see where I went wrong so much, hoe come at the start I wasn't scummy and now I suddenly am?

[Kalofer]

Why the aggression and hurry there Fake? Aren't we supposed to bide with our time? And you do know that if I'm at L-1 scum could easily hammer and end it all here and now.

Please let me know why I'm scummy before I get lynched, I really don't see where I went wrong so much, how come at the start I wasn't scummy and now I suddenly am?

[Kalofer]

I DID NOT CLAIM TO BE SCUM, honestly I have no idea where you got that from. 195 I posted because I really didn't know where I went wrong and 198 was a joke, I really don't see why you took it so seriously and about me not scumhunting, yeah then what where those large block posts at the start, if that wasn't scumhunting then I don't know what is. I REALLY REALLY REALLY need to know why when someone asks someone where he went wrong they are immediately proclaimed to be scum. Defending oneself in this game is unbelievably hard. If you're gonna lynch me, just get it over with I hate to be toyed with and to help people who want to kill me on my expense.

[Kalofer]

I AM TOWN. HEY EVERYONE I AM TOWN. I JUST MADE A TOWN CLAIM, IF YOU BELIEVED MY SCUM CLAIM (which I don't see how it is a scum claim) BELIEVE ME NOW WHEN I SAY I'M TOWN!!!!

[Kalofer]

@Zach #181 was the post which was supposed to tell you who I think is scum

[Kalofer]

And why is defending a scum strategy, isn't it a possibility that a townie would want to know where he went wrong, seriously why does everyone in this game deal with absolutes, I don't get it. What's sad is I tried being pro town in this game by voicing my suspicions and saying who and why I think could be scum but it still got me nowhere

[Kalofer]

Tvell thanks for cheering me up

[Kalofer]

You know what, I'm not gonna sit here writing my hands off for you guys, do what you see fit I really don't care anymore cause I think you're gonna lynch me all the same. And if you're gonna lynch me please lynch me sooner, I don't want to be a play thing and target for insults, obviously defending myself is not working. If you're so sure I'm scum just end it now, nothing would give me more pleasure than to see you wrong.

On another note I have come to be suspicious of Zach's and David's feud. Meaning I suspect them to be a possible scum duo trying to confuse everyone through their arguing and hating of each other (I'm just saying it could be possible). I've also (and I don't care if you believe me or not) had a gut feeling on Zach from the start and I really don't like the way he latches onto one target and constantly pushes for a lynch until he finally succeeds. Then there's Fake and Nik who are pushing for a lynch.

Vote: Zachrulez

And david don't play dumb too, it doesn't suit you, just because you have 0 votes does not mean you're town, it means the rest of the players have found someone more suspicious than you.

[Kalofer]

Sorry, I forgot the

Unvote, Vote Zachrulez

[Kalofer]

Well Abe, in reality it is possible that I am scum and through ATE I am trying to convince you otherwise, Although that is not the case I'm happy it's working.
The gut feeling was what drove me to vote for you Zach because as I said, I consider Parker to be using a certain play style and for that reason I did not find him so suspicious and worthy of a vote. You on the other hand I do, mainly because of your carefulness, you have been a lot more subtle, you also pushed for a lynch on David and a lynch on me, yet then after so much quarreling with David you say you have a feeling he's town...wtf? Now it's true that I have the same feeling but I didn't argue with someone the majority of my posts, push for their lynch and then say "I think he's actually town". Then you accuse me of not scumhunting even though I would like to believe that I did scumhunt, by voicing my suspicions, not by voting, why should scumhunting only be restricted to voting. Then you start dealing with absolutes, saying I'm definitely scum, that I have claimed to be scum and that for that reason there's no point in wasting time and I should be lynched immediately (by all means if everyone reading this agrees with him, lynch me). You could say that this is an OMGUS vote, in fact I'm admitting that it is, but I believe it is a well justified OMGUS.

[Kalofer]

And it is because of that subtlety that I find you scummier than Fake.

[Kalofer]

I'm not really worried about getting lynched at all, lynch me I don't care, but if you're town you'll be disappointed that's all I'm saying. What i said about AtE leads to WIFOM if I try to explain it. Yup Zach you're right, townies do change their minds, as you have seen I changed my mind in voting for Fake and voted for you. And why are OMGUS votes scummy? I justified my vote, so why is it still scummy. And yes I did find parker suspicious but at most for an FoS not for a vote and that thing about the 100% I consider a joke, there you have it those are my answers.

[Kalofer]

Noooo the source of the suspicion is what I stated above, the fact that you're voting for me is an addition.

[Kalofer]

Oh ok, sorry then it's not OMGUS.

[Kalofer]

Zombeh, to your irrelevant question I will make the honest but unfortunately dumb answer, it was to primarily add more fuel to confusion, to sate that which I bet was going on in your heads when you read it , and to test how much you I've managed to convince you I'm a townie. I won't do it again, because it was stupid...sorry.

[Kalofer]

Did your magic - 8 ball tell you that?

[Kalofer]

You DARE disrespect his MAGIC 8-BALL??!!! watch yourself, it's gonna say you're scum AND IT DOESN'T LIE!!!!

[Kalofer]

...Maybeeeee

[Kalofer]

Something else I find scummy about Zach is his response to #268 because he didn't address Tvell's main point which was "Zachrulez has never made an original vote" , but instead started picking on Tvell for saying "You seem to want to lynch someone, anyone. " And "Third on bandwagon is classic sign of scum". In other words he started defending himself from Tvell's opinions in an attempt to turn attention and suspicion back on tvell but disregarded the fact of the post which was the most important part.

[Kalofer]

Oh and by the way Zombeh, that was an honest answer, I see no need for townies to lie and so I answered it, and instead of fabricating an answer I gave you the truth. Feel fre to think suspicious for that, If I were you, I'd think myself suspicious, as unfortunately lie detectors don't work over the internet.

And seriously Nik, why so merciless, isn't there at least a little bit of something gnawing at you in the back of your head telling you "he could be town", cause there certainly is in me for whoever I vote. Why and I really want to know why are you so certain that I'm scum and want to kill me no matter what?

[Kalofer]

Yeah that's right zombeh, rally to nikanor's banner, smite down the infidel with holy justice. But if you really do find me suspicious go ahead and vote. I have null read on you right now since I haven't seen much from you to make an opinion. On another note I will borrow some of Nik's confidence to keep my vote on Zach whose actions I haven't forgotten or forgiven.
Tvell, you're as of now funnier than Parker lol, I have only this to ask you: are you drunk?
And speaking of David, da hell is he?

[Kalofer]

Where you're "putting me" (as if I'm some household item ) is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you are actually voting for me after Nik asked you to and this leads me to believe that you wanted to vote for me when I was L-2 but didn't...why? And what's the purpose of this vote seriously, just to keep the pressure until Fake and Zach decide to vote for me again?

[Kalofer]

Vote for whoever you want to Nashi, I really don't care. I could give you reasons why any one of these three people could be scum and reasons why they could not be scum, just like they could give reasons why I might be scum and reasons why I might not be scum. Besides I'm not going to act like Nik and ask you to vote for someone just because I think he's scum.

[Kalofer]

Ok, time to put some pressure on the person I think is acting very suspicious... DavidParker!
I love how you analysed everyone based on nothing but the fact that you omitted yourself reminds me of an old proverb...
"When you point the finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing back at you!"
I think you're scum and you're gradually building up a false case against me in an attempt to get a townie lynched in the first round.
A clever play, but I see RIGHT through it, bud.

VOTE DavidParker

I still stand my vote for you DavidParker. You've vote hopped off me because no one else was buying your ploy and now you're trying to build yet another false case. I say you talk too much.

UNVOTE

VOTE Kalofer

- You're very scummy my friend. I smell a rat!

FoS still on DavidParker

Hmmm, SOOO...
You obviously WANT Kalofer lynched...
In light of his more recent posts (including what was obviously a joke no mafia would make) I actually think he is newb-town and just not dealing with pressure well.
I voted for him because I thought he only had 2 votes and 3 seemed a good amount of pressure.
If I had kept my vote on him, it would have only taken one more for it to stick, which is why I removed it. I don't want someone I wasn't sure of getting lynched.
You're keeping your eye on me? Think I've been flying under the radar? Bollocks.

VOTE FakeGod

You're scummy as hell. I think you and DavidParker are partners.

Two OMGUS votes? LMAO! I knew you two were scummy.
Zach: I've already explained twice how there is clearly a difference between "jumping on the bandwagon" and voting for someone because you think they're scummy. I explained why I voted for you. If I said it was because a magic 8-ball told me to (sorry Parker ) then that would be one thing, but I find both your voting pattern and your conduct up to now scummy.
FakeGod: You're voting for me because you think I'm "jumping from wagon to wagon?"... Are you following this game? My first two votes were completely random. My third vote I immediately retracted because Kalofer has enough pressure for such little evidence.

I'm pretty sure you two are the scum pair.

NashiNashi: I've been very clear about my game plan up until now. The first 10-11 pages I was just throwing votes and FoSs in every direction, just to see who would take the bait. I then layed my analysis of the game on page 12 and clearly explained why I was voting for Zachrulez. I find his very quick OMGUS vote even more suspicious.
Don't vote for me, because there simply isn't a good reason to. Vote for whoever

you

think is most suspicious.

That's it Tvell, you've just gone too far. At first I wanted to excuse your haphazardly gaming style as newb-town but I'm not so sure that's the case anymore.

VOTE: Tvellalot

[Kalofer]

FakeGod: I did think Kalofer was very scummy, but then he posted a bit more and the things I thought were scummy about him were actually more likely due to being newb-town. I agree I haven't posted as much as some of the other players, but I do post regularly.
As for my own vote hopping, I am (look out DavidParker, I'm going to say it) just throwing pressure around, trying to see who cracks. I haven't really got any concrete theories on who is scum to be honest. I might go back and read the whole thread up to here and write a paragraph on everyone. I'm playing three other mafia games on another forum and they are much quicker than this one, so this is a bit slow. I've forgotten half the stuff thats happened.
Until then...

UNVOTE
*Puts FoS's away*

Observe how Tvell pressured David at the start and also observe his light-hearted attitude in doing so, there is the possibility that they could be scum partners as the light-hearted attitude suggests that he is not truly committed to his vote. Then suddenly "vote kalofer, you're very scummy my friend. I smell a rat", he said that as if I'm definitely scum but didn't give reasons as to why and then suddenly after I used my extravagant strategy to challenge people to lynch me there and then if they thought I was scum, he suddenly became convinced I'm a townie and that more than anyone else. At first I had thought that my strategy paid off but then after seeing more of him I'm more convinced that it's Nik's arcade game ploy. Then suddenly he's attacking and intimidating Fake, saying "you're scummy as hell". Then suddenly he randomly just quiets down, basically saying, "I don't know who's scum, I was just pressuring people randomly, I got nothing on nobody". Then suddenly it all gets heated up again "Two OMGUS votes? LMAO! I knew you two were scummy." And finally he's like "Don't vote for me, because there simply isn't a good reason to." You've accused 4/9 people of definitely being scum and then just change your votes, all the while accusing people of doing what you have been doing. You say "third person on the wagon is a sign of scum" even though you did it as soon as you told zach it was. Then you accuse Zach of wanting to lynch anyone, even though after what you've been doing you seem to want the same thing. And now you suddenly say don't vote for me because there simply isn't a reason for why you should. I mean of all the nerve, after your weird behaviour which you just explain as "I've got nothing on nobody and am just pressuring people" (which I don't consider a good explanation at all), you've got the nerve to say "there's no reason why anyone should vote for me"...you just need a little retrospect to notice that there actually is a reason. P.S. you start pointing FoS's everywhere, in every direction as if you're some nice innocent townie, but an FoS is worthless mainly because everyone is suspicious to a townie's eyes as no one knows who's who.

Something else I've noticed though is how everyone jumped on me for asking, I don't know who to vote for (which implies that someone should tell me so that I can be scum under the guise of an obedient townie, at least that's the reason you tok that question for a scumtell right?) but no one is seemingly paying attention to the fact that Nashi has right now done almost exactly the same thing by asking everyone who she should vote for.

[Kalofer]

Oh sorry I forgot, UNVOTE: VOTE: Tvellalot

[Kalofer]

I think he's trying to say Zach is definitely scum (in the second part at least) dunno what the first part means

[Kalofer]

David, hasn't it made clear enough to you that you can't come waltzing in (yes, waltzing Matilda pun intended) telling us you're Jesus Christ himself without much proof. How can we believe someone we don't know?

[Kalofer]

I admire your faith, Tvell Tbh despite all the things I brought up against you I still have a gut feeling that you're town. That large post came out of nowhere because I've been observing what you've been doing and like I said at one point it seemed too much for me to think of it as newb - town hence my post and vote. The reason for that was because we have to "vote for who we think is most suspicious" which I think is stupid but hey I'm guessing it's part of game etiquette. Buuut since things turn around so quickly in this game and it looks like I'm going to be lynched again I'm not going to do my "baby - whiny - honour - defending - lynch -me - if - you -got - the - guts - otherwise - don't - waste - my - time" strategy. And if Nik manages to convince everyone with his erroneous beliefs that I'm scum, befoer I go can someone please just tell me whats a quasi something such as a quasi - scum claim and Nik, when you play like this and focus down one person, how usually are you correct?

[Kalofer]

What nerve, now you're using a variant of MY strategy to defend yourself...YOU GTFO lol jk

[Kalofer]

Lol I wouldn't be surprised if the bear team actually are scum

[Kalofer]

Lol I wouldn't be surprised if the bear team actually are scum

Bear team?

FIGURE IT OUT!!!

[Kalofer]

By the way I would also be down for a DP lynch, I'm dying to know what he is underneath that weird behaviour of his.

You assume correct.

[Kalofer]

No wait, you don't assume correct, it's Abe and Nik becauseeeee they've both got bear avatars, hence bear team. Jeez for people who go digging deep for answers they can't spot what's on the surface.

[Kalofer]

Zach, Nik's absolute certainty that I'm scum and the fact that he hardly said much after that and the fact that he voted for me because of the FakeGod scandal so long ago and the fact that he's looking for every small thing he can find to incriminate me (even though that could be a town tell, since minor details are most important) is what makes me believe he could be scum, but I doubt it more than I believe it. As for Abe...I got nothing on him, but that can be counted as something because "the presence of nothing is the absence of something" meaning he could be so good a scum that he's completely managed to elude everyone simply by staying low. There's also his "mild" playing style (if I may call it that) but that's a null tell. There's also the fact that they have hardly communicated between each other, neither has said something to the other.

Btw, I'm guessing Fake's avatar is an Aperture Science turret from the game Portal, by Valve (great game, great gaming company, I advise you to play it if you're into those things), can't wait for portal 2 eh Fake?

And can some one please tell me what Quasi-... means?

[Kalofer]

Who said I don't respect bears, I respect them very much, in fact I love bears, what are you a grizzly?
And yeah cephalopods are amazing especially the one that predicted Germany's play in the World Cup.

[Kalofer]

David, I must admit you make a very good point, I did NOT defend myself, personally I take that as a null tell because last game in which I was also town I defended myself, but then people said I defended myself too much and lynched me anyways. This time when the game suddenly turned against me I felt very disillusioned and instead of defense I was looking for answers because just like in my last game I did something that somehow alerted a lot of people and that ultimately got me lynched. Still, fluff away you make a good point and if you manage to convince everyone else that I'm scum with that point by all means lynch me. One thing I'm sure about however is that either me, you or Zach are gonna die this day and I'll let luck/fate decide who.

UNVOTE: Tvellalot
VOTE: DavidParker

[Kalofer]

"poor game" what the hell is that supposed to mean, how can someone's playing be regarded as poor or good/rich? I feel sooooooo offended. And I have to be killed "regardless of alignment" wow that's great so you're saying if scum play really well let's not lynch them cause they play really well, let's lynch the townie that sucks instead. Thanks a lot.

[Kalofer]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=50

I think it all starts from there, in which once again a misunderstanding with what I've said occurs and every attempt to defend myself is criticised and condemned as being scummier than the last causing me to go insane and finally do the stupid thing of self hammering (I couldn't stand a game were everyone was certain I'm scum and no one listened to me, wanted it to end as fast as possible). Thank God it's relatively short. I hope I did the link part right.

[Kalofer]

Sorry, won't happen again.

[Kalofer]

Zombeh-Pug's ghost magically appears:
"Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
(Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post except for a brief "Bah!"-type post.)

"Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post except for a brief "Bah!"-type post." Erm, Mod just to clarify is he technically allowed to do that cause he did say something more than a Bah post, still it is a harmless opinion but let's say if I die can I say something like that?
Just as expected, Zombeh is killed by the mafia and since he suspected me of being scum I am right now probably the most suspected person of being scum since he is dead (this leads to WIFOM but who cares), however this makes me even more certain that Zach is scum and so VOTE: Zachrulez

[Kalofer]

Requesting V/la until Wednesday (Wednesday I'll be back at some time and able to post). I'm sorry for the inconveniences this will be causing but it's totally out of my control. If I mange to find internet where I'm going I'll be able to post albeit the posts being short and lacking detail. Mod feel free to replace me if you think this time period is too long.

To quickly address the issue with Zach I basically suspect him because of his arguments with Zach, my past gut feeling, and my arguments with him and his somehow "peculiar" so to say, way of playing at the time. When I come back I will re-read to see if there is really that much big a reason for the vote and if I truly have anything on him. Np about the butchering of my name though lol

[Kalofer]

I'm back, sorry for being one day late, (the day I was here I was too lazy/didn't know what to write) and I kinda still don't know. Right now I feel comfortable with my vote on Zach.

As it is, I can practically guarantee that at least one of the two of them is scum [Kalofer and David Parker]. I just can't see any possibility where neither is after the interactions we've seen.

That is exactly what I was thinking about you and DP and I'm pretty much sure it was also what DP was thinking about me and you. Since DP is dead and he was town I'm right now pretty convinced that you are scum. As for Nashi and Tvell I really can't say who's scummier and it pains me not to be able to vote for the both of them so I will vote for neither.

I do not wish to. I have null tell from David.

There are much better lynches that could give town more info. (contrary to David lynch where we wouldn't get much info due to his crazy playstyle)

This is the main if not only reason why I think Fake is either definitely scum or definitely town and I really can't decide whether he wrote that as scum knowing DP is town and thus saving himself trouble later on...Or he's simply honest town (I agreed with him on that post, I lynched David primarily because I would have felt like a complete idiot to be fooled that someone who plays so extravagantly and for him to turn out to be scum). Unfortunately he went on and threw everything away by scoring an own goal. And for the reason above I am leaning towards Fake's theory 1 as I'm pretty much sure that both scum knew DP was being quite useless (no offense dude, but the best thing you did was your incrimination of me) and wanted him lynched as soon as possible (though what Zach said was very true about the "he was scummy enough already" and there is the possibility that exactly because this is a newbie game, the scum avoided both voting for the same person to be more cautious (this leads to WIFOM though).
However I agree most with Theory 4: There are 7 people in the game, and 2 of them are scum. Hence there are 2 scum among Nikanor, Zachrulez, Kalofer, Abe27342, NashiNashi, tvell and FakeGod.

I also don't like the fact that Fake and Nashi are arguing so much but neither has voted for the other...what? Especially considering the fact that FakeGod said (or implied) :"If someone doesn't vote I'm taking it as a scumsign". One must at most forgive but never forget. And right now while I've been writing this my mind changed and I am going to vote for Fake who right now has become seemingly more scummier in my eyes than Zach (I don't care what kind of sign you're taking that as).

UNVOTE: Zachrulez
VOTE: FakeGod

[Kalofer]

Oh my God (not you Fake) *facepalm* :@ total screw up with the quote thing...sorry.

[Kalofer]

Basically just look at the DP quote box, below that is my writing and below that is the FG quote box, disregard what you see above the DP quote box.

[Kalofer]

Touche. I'm very inconsistent, extremely inconsistent and I can't help it. I changed my mind half way through the post - there's inconsistency for you. But you're bringing it up as if I didn't say anything even though I did. As to the "convinced" bit, sorry, it's my way of writing in English, perhaps "fairly leaning" would have been closer to the mark. The theory 4 thing was a joke and I really can't decide if you're playing dumb or trying to use everything against me (yet even more inconsistency). Speaking of which I agreed with Zach when he said there's a small chance of scum being outside the wagon, but there's also the large chance that they could be (inconsistency? I think yes).

You don't think Nashi's scum? then what was the point of that argument about the inconsistencies and who do you actually think is scum? And sorry for accusing you of accusing non voters as scum, I only remembered you said something like that and forgot exactly what it was (and was too lazy to go back and quote that as well), unless a "no-lynch" stance is an euphemism for scum.
"I'm perfectly fine with you voting me"...say wuuuut? That's the second time you've said something along those lines and I'm starting to believe you're using psychological mind tricks (or I'm extremely paranoid and grasping at air)...Disregarding that, I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE PERFECTLY FINE, I WANT YOU TO BE VEXED, THESE THINGS CAN KILL YOU MAN WTH???!!!
Wow, I think you pinpointed the reason why I suck at this game with your last few paragraphs, because I never wholeheartedly believe what I'm saying because I can never be absolutely sure if I'm right or not.

[Kalofer]

I really think that you're bluffing Fake, if we were to lynch you now town will get no advantage whatsoever from doing so and will be still in more or less the same position. Yet you keep saying that you're willing to sacrifice yourself, even when there is no gain to be made. That defence is getting old don't you think? You saying that has only made me more consistent about my vote.

[Kalofer]

The first time you were attacked and left at L-2, you fought back and soon after that you acted aggressively, yet I'm seeing none of this today, did you have a pleasant conversation with your partner-in-crime at night?

[Kalofer]

What the Hell was that?

You seriously can't accuse someone of lurking without knowing exactly what's been going on in his life, yesterday my net went off (thank God I didn't miss much) and I'm pretty sure you can accuse me of lurking even though I wasn't and not all lurkers are scum anyway. Seriously who the Hell are you, DavidParker junior? What's with all the aggression and kamikaze style? You are tempting me to vote for you just for the same reason I voted for DP, at the start you were calm and normal, you suddenly became enraged when voted for and now you're like a rabid animal, what's going on here, it can't all be merely frustration.

[Kalofer]

@Mod, thanks for fixing the quote thing

[Kalofer]

Tvell you do realise that not only did you once again make a publically declared pressure vote but you also used it to pressure someone who is on vacation leave. And why did you suddenly drop your vote on Fake, as far as I remember you voted for him because he "wasn't really doing anything useful" now you're voting for someone merely because of lurking (and then you yourself said he was active before he left). I really want an explanation because you're just throwing sand in all our faces.

And Fake what is the basis of your suspicion of Nik and Abe? I take it as just a bit more than a random vote and right now I feel very disillusioned, everyone kept saying how Day2 is more about discerning but what you're doing seems a game of chance, how about we all just roll a dice and vote hmm? Tvell seems to be implying that by saying we shouldn't listen to "fence sitting crap" etc.

Zach, where's the reason, where's the action? You were most active in Day 1 you're officially out of V/la at least tell us if you're having problems stopping you from posting or say something already.

Nashi, please do something more than just calculating chances, I'm sure it took you some time and thanks for the info, but as before this is merely an attempt to look useful I see it as nothing more.

God am I pissed that I can only vote for one person at a time.

[Kalofer]

Zach, last time we voted for and lynched a crazy person and he turned out to be town, I wouldn't want to repeat that mistake but if everyone else is for a tvell lynch I will support it, as for now my vote remains and my FoS on you too as I don't have a strict lynch all lurkers policy.
By the way Mod, how much time does Nik have before a PM or replacement?

[Kalofer]

And seriously I want to get the math straightened out, Nashi I'm 99.99% sure that you're wrong because 5+3.5+2=10.5 and not 7.
And Abe can you pleases tell me what nCr stands for?

[Kalofer]

In between Fake, Abe and Nashi, I am almost certain that there is a scum.

[Kalofer]

I find it hard to believe that three people would be on a wagon because the person they're voting for is lurking especially considering it's day 2, I don't know how often this happens but being a newb I don't think it should happen.

[Kalofer]

I disagree very much, considering you're the person who started it but before stated that you were not willing to lynch DP as nothing would be learned from such a lynch, Nik is at L-1 now, what could we possible learn if we lynch him? I am accusing you of hypocrisy.

[Kalofer]

Town can only afford to make one more mistake at this stage I'd have expected people to be much more cautious. By the way Mod, when is the deadline?

[Kalofer]

I fail to see in what way the fact that Nik suspected people in day 1 who are dead right now will help town if we lynch him.

[Kalofer]

Then just think of it as a gut-tell then.

See now that is why I'm voting for you.

[Kalofer]

I was inconsistent then, now I'm definitely not after I've heard more from you. Tvell seems legitimately scummy, but his scumminess is too much on the surface for me to commit a vote and I haven't heard enough from Zach to make good on my claims. And why even say what you last posted, it's not like I'm expecting you to agree with me and vote for yourself.

[Kalofer]

Well then tvell how about you stop playing so that your playstyle stands out and start playing normally, because frankly if you are town, you are not helping at all with your "legitimately scummy" play style, I mean is it that hard to not play as an A88hole, what the hell are you trying to prove anyway, as if you haven't fence sat and been wishy-washy? Though I agree with you that Nashi does look scummy enough with her limited activity and staying low under the radar, in other words I'd be willing to lynch him/her (sorry, I still don't know) when and if the time comes.

[Kalofer]

I lead the wagon on you because you looked scummy, zach voted for you too but he was town and he agreed that you looked scummy, if I was night killed instead of zach I bet you would have pointed the finger at him. That aside I believe the scum is hiding in between Nashi and Abe because I doubt that a scum would start a wagon on his partner (Fake) and I doubt that a scum would hammer his partner (tvel, for which I congratulate you).

So I see three possibilities:

1. Nashi is scum, failed to hammer Nik or expected Tvell to hammer Fake or wanted to hide by not hammering
2. Abe is scum, failed to hammer Nik or expected Tvell to hammer Fake or wanted to hide by not hammering
3. Tvell is scum, elusively trying to hide his identity by hammering Nik and trying to appear town (which I doubt but is nonetheless a possibility)

[Kalofer]

I am a vanilla townie, period. I have nothing to hide. I am sorry for leading the wagon on you Fake, but the fact that you were voting off of a gut tell and being hypocritical got me fooled. Right now I'm mostly convinced that you're town.

[Kalofer]

Well I hope you're not drunk on your success, but if you lynch me and you are town you will be making a mistake. Hypothetically, if I were scum knowing that Nik is my scum buddy and that you are town I would not night kill zach who was also voting for you because that would automatically make me suspicious, as has happened. Do you really think the scum would be that stupid? They're trying to frame me is what I think. But by all means go ahead with your vote and see where it leads you.

[Kalofer]

Yes it is, doesn't mean it's not right though, even though I can't prove if it's right either.

[Kalofer]

EBWOP: Not wrong*

[Kalofer]

Yeah sorry about that, haven't had much time for mafia lately hence my low activity. I'll have to get more serious soon and make a large post, but for now, as a response to Tvell:

1) Nashi/Abe - for now I see either of the 2 having an equal chance of being scum mostly due to the fact that tvell and Fake, both of whom were critical in the lynching of a scum have a higher chance of being town.

2)Fake/Tvell - Once again, I can't decide who is scummier than the other but both seem relatively town (if I choose to disregard my paranoid feelings) as both have been critically involved in the lynching of a scum.

On another note, I find it weird that out of all people, Zach was lynched. After the Nikanor saga I'm assuming that everyone at night 2 was thinking "there's no way that after all of this Fake and Tvell can be scum" and hence following that logic either Tvell or Fake would be nightkilled due to the fact that they would obviously seem town after the night and the remaining scum would want to try to keep things as "spicy" as possible so that people don't catch onto him. Night 1 proceeded like this wherein a slightly less controversial person who was flying low on radar was nightkilled thus maintaining the level of spiciness (because after that I accused Zach but he turned out town and I'm assuming that's what scum want- townies incriminating other townies). This raises my suspicion of Tvell and Fake albeit by only a little. Excuse me of delving too deep into the matter but I try to be thorough and look for everything (unfortunately that only makes me ever more irresolute).

[Kalofer]

PLEASE DON'T PROD ME MOD!!!!!

[Kalofer]

Yeyyyyyyy I'm at L-1. I am right now daring someone to lynch me.

Abe, it is my opinion that this whole game is largely a type of WIFOM in which a person can choose to look at someones post as being either scummy or town and this constantly repeats itself. I guess I can't convince you that I'm town but I will repeat myself in saying that I WOULD BE ONE DUMB SCUM if I killed Zach who was also defending Nik, why would I kill him and then knowing that suspicion would turn to me even have to bother making these defences when I could just as well have killed Fake or Tvell or Nashi or you and saved myself the trouble. And just to clarify I defended Nik because Fake and almost everyone else was jumping on him just because he was inactive which I think is a scummy reason to vote for someone at least until they are given time to defend themselves (I do admit when Nik suddenly came in and voted for Fake that really got me suspicious of him) but until then I wanted to prevent what I saw as a needless lynch and if Nik turned townie we wouldn't have really learnt anything.

[Kalofer]

Besides, scum would attempt to try to have as little as possible with their partners so why would (if I were scum) stick my neck out for Nik knowing that even if Fake was lynched instead of Nik this immediately makes me the target.

[Kalofer]

I mean ok, I know this is WIFOM but if you seriously think I'm scum after this and for acting like this and I can't convince me otherwise you may as well lynch me, town can afford to make 1 more mistake after all.

[Kalofer]

You should be saying sorry to yourself, you're the ones who are gonna have more work to do later on. I must say that you're voting for me on a very shallow basis - just because I defended someone who turned out scum.

[Kalofer]

There are 5 people left now, one of which is a scum. Up until D2 I thought FakeGod was a more likely candidate due to the reasons I mentioned, as well as the peculiar tendency of asking people to not lynch the most scummy person under the reason of "we'd get more information if we lynch someone less scummy". Yet FakeGod also have led the lynching of Nik. It is still possible that he is the scum who have gained a good deal of credibility by doing this, but right now I'm really leaning town on him. The only other strange thing is that being THIS active, I found it strange that the mafia killed Zach over FakeGod last night. You'd think FakeGod is the biggest scum threat right now.

Right now my top FOS is Tv. I have read town in the first two days thinking lots of his behavioru was based on being new at Mafia, a bit like Kalefor or myself. Yet out of all three of us who played pretty badly, he's the only one who self-confessed to be a more regular player. So in that case, I wonder how much of the over the top hissy fits were for show.

FakeGod is not the biggest scum threat at all, he lynched Nik on a lurking basis and because of his gut feeling which I consider lucky, the only special thing about Fake is how he latches onto a person and just doesn't let go. If he was the biggest scum threat he'd be right in voting for me which he isn't. I find this post flawed (and the spelling mistakes make me think you were typing in a hurry?) and as a result will vote for you.

VOTE: NashiNashi

THERE YOU GO, I JUST LEFT A PERSON ON L-1, IS THAT BIG ENOUGH REASON FOR SOMEONE TO HAMMER ME NOW???

[Kalofer]

UNVOTE: NashiNashi

I've just had a revelation!!!
Either Fake is one of the biggest idiots ever, or he's scum. I mean seriously, who would start and push (and I mean PUSH!) a wagon on a lurker, that requires a hell of a lot of belief doesn't in it, and those are the things about starting a wagon on a lurker, you don't truly believe it and you don't truly wanna kill the guy do you? You just want to add pressure. But Fake didn't JUST add pressure, he pushed it to the end. Furthermore when continually criticised by me he finally said it was a "gut" feeling. AND HE STILL KEPT PUSHING FOR THE WAGON. and now when Nik flipped scum we all think he's town and I'm guessing that's exactly what he wants us to think. Let's recall Nik's dying words: "good luck town, you're gonna need it", an implication of a hidden threat. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Nik (an SE) told Fake to start the wagon on him in night 1 and thus gain permanent town cred. Then Zach is nightkilled both to probably frame me AND because zach was a pretty reasonable guy who was an IC AND also questioned Fake and as such would perhaps be a bigger threat to Fake if left alive than me. Then there is the fact that Nik voted for Fake at the end without saying anything that might give the whole operation away, thus making himself seem scummier AND giving more town cred to Fake.

VOTE: FakeGod

I WILL DIE WITH THIS BELIEF!!!!

[Kalofer]

But what you said has the possibility of being WIFOM as well, and the lynching of a roleblocker has given you all the more town cred.

[Kalofer]

He did it because he somehow believes I'd do it so that I can later defend myself as I have, just as I currently believe that he lynched Nik for town credit.

[Kalofer]

WHAT LOGIC??? and you think it's logical that I'm scum who has stuck his neck out so far to defend Nik and who killed the only person who shared my suspicions that Fake could be scum, you're basically supporting one illogical thing in favour of another. How could you possibly believe I'd do all that just to go through the trouble of defending myself like this, what could I possibly gain from it, do you think I'm gaining something by doing this, did you seriously think that if I was scum I wouldn't think this through. To hell with your logic, it's all probability anyway. And how come Fake doesn't want Nashi suddenly hammered but is ok if I get hammered, what are you gonna learn from my lynch Fake? And what the hell is wrong with you tvell, you're not the one to take orders yet you unvoted Nashi once Fake told you to, what was the point of voting for him then?

[Kalofer]

but it is wifom, there's just a smaller chance of it being wifom and that could exactly be why you think he's town. OF COURSE I'M YELLING IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT NOT TO GET LYNCHED, why is it a scum tell if I don't want to get lynched? I know you're gonna have a mislynch, and that only means that if you make this mistake the next day you're not going to be able to afford to make another one.
And as to the learning if I'm scum thing, that's what we did when we lynched DP but Fake was opposed to that lynch and he's voting for me on the same basis. I'm sorry to have to say this but you must either be scum or an idiot (or at least newb town) if you seriously think I'm scum for the reasons for which you are voting for me. Tvell or Nashi please just hammer me now so I can finally PROVE it and not have to take this anymore or I'll hammer myself.

[Kalofer]

Vote: NashiNashi

Anything you have to offer? So far you've only posted a /confirm, so either you haven't checked up on the thread in a day or are lurking.

I think this could be scum looking for a easy target (like a lurker) to attack early on, trying to give a town-impression.

Unvote, Vote:Abe27342

Here's another point to back up my argument, Fake attacks Abe for accusing a lurker when that was exactly what Fake was doing in regard to Nikanor. A change in a person's playstyle is often a big scumtell
And here is how Fake's defense is "WIFOMable": the sole fact that he has an extremely solid defense points to him being scum. Scum would try to be as intelligent and fool-proof as possible and Fake and Nik have succeeded in this. As to the PR thing, either they thought it out pretty well, or they took a gamble or they didn't think a cop would investigate Fake, after Nik flipped scum.
Furthermore why would I kill Zach who also backed me up with the belief that I was town?

[Kalofer]

But the only info you'll get is whether I'm scum or not, what else will you get? Where will you go from there if I flip town, will that help you definitely find and incriminate the scum because if it won't and you then lynch another townie it's game over, so how am I the most useful lynch. And then there's the fact that TOWN is made out of TOWNIES and the lynching of one only serves to weaken it so why not try to prevent the lynching of a townie? With that logic I am playing for town by trying not to get myself lynched because that will weaken town more si what you said there is WIFOM as well.

[Kalofer]

well ok then Abe, I guess you do have a point when saying that I am the most useful lynch or at least it's definitely going to be more useful than lynching Fake and him flipping town. This is not an attempt for me to build upon what you said about townies caring for themselves and to try to appear more town. Unless more discussion is planned I suggest a hammer coming down soon, the nightkilling of a townie is what I think will help you the most after this myslinch. If possible could I be given a day to carefully re-read the thread and post my final opinions before the lynch?

[Kalofer]

Why would you of all people die tomorrow?

[Kalofer]

LOL the deadline is exactly when my school starts

[Kalofer]

Actually Nashi, if what you say happens and you are town then town will lose.

[Kalofer]

You know tvell I have NEVER seen you come into any contact with nikanor excluding the hammering you did on him. I am right now seeing this to be a large scum tell because it somehow seems to fit your psychology ( to me at least) but more importantly because of what you said in #612, which goes something like this: "I was also framed", but I don't think you were framed, I think you're trying to build sympathy out of my misery. You hammered Nik to gain town cred and so that people could forget the FoS's on you and you killed Zach because he wanted to push the most for your lynch and because it would frame me. So right now I think you have a fairly large chance to be scum and I tihnk your lynch will be more useful than mine, but I guess I won't be able to convince Fake or Abe who don't seem to be very much into the digging deep business.

Vote:Tvellalot

[Kalofer]

You also seem pretty smug to me this day as opposed to yesterday and the day before that when you were raving like a lunatic.
So while I still support a Fake lynch I admit that the possibility of him being town is weighing on me and if he is town, I don't think we'd get very far (because we've basically done the mafia's work for them). I think town could learn a lot more from a Tvell lynch on the other hand.

[Kalofer]

Erm Mod, could you roughly tell me the average scum:town win ratio in newbie games i.e. whether there is a substantial difference between scum and town wins in newbie games? (thanks in advance, sorry if I'm not allowed to ask stuff like this).

[Kalofer]

Of course I'm raving like a lunatic, I'm going to be lynched and I still can't believe it's just because I was for a FakeGod lynch and zach died. And no one believes what I'm saying. Spelling mistakes had very little to do with the Nashi vote, it was because I saw his logic as flawed. Either way I have nothing more to say except maybe the fact that you are ignorant idiots who were extremely lucky with your lynch and right now might as well roll a dice to determine the scum. Anyone could be scum right now- Fake because he could have engineered the whole thing and because with the SOLE exception of leading a wagon on a scum was extremely scummy. Nashi because he hasn't been really useful in scumhunting and has been keeping low. Tvell because he also acted scummy before and didn't talk to Nik (just because you think he's town doesn't mean you don't speak to him). And Abe because he actually thinks it's that simple that I'm scum (though he seems town to me).
UNVOTE:
VOTE: NashiNashi
If lynching one lurker led to success perhaps lynching another will also lead to success.
That's all I have to say. Do as you see fit.

[Kalofer]

Haven't I been trying to scumhunt enough to prove I'm not scum, haven't I defended myself well enough (wifom though it may be the defense has merits yet you fail to see them for some reason and as long as something is wifom you quickly just accuse it of being scummy). Besides the fact that Zach is dead and that I started the Fake wagon what else do you have to accuse me of that stands out from everyone else? Just tell me that before I die.

[Kalofer]

you still didn't answer my question as to why I look scummy besides the fact that I was on a Fake wagon and I want an answer to that if not to anything else.
Also if Fake does turn out scum, words, emotions or anything human will be able to express the massive "I TOLD YOU SO" type feeling.

[Kalofer]

oh and something else fake, YOUR ANALYSIS SUCKS!!! no scum would be that reckless and you should be ashamed of thinking so.

[Kalofer]

ROFL, are you kidding me? I've been repeating myself again and again, and since I really doubt explaining myself is going to change your mind I won't bother, look at my previous posts which in short version are this: no scum would be reckless enough to risk so much just so his scum buddy wouldn't be lynched whether roleblocker or not, no scum would stick his neck so far out and furthermore no scum would kill someone who supported him (zach and his support on your wagon).

[Kalofer]

I know right but If you manage to exclude the shouting and accusing and insulting (sorry) I'm really just trying to defend myself with a bit of logic, it may be scummy to want to survive, but when you're town you'd want to survive so that town won't get weakened. Still I doubt you'd change your mind from this post like you didn't from all others. And since this has been going on in my head I thought I'd ask all of you, should I just hammer myself?

[Kalofer]

Why would it be useful who hammers me when you both said it would be better if I die and when Fake asked either Tvell or Nashi to hammer me, that's like him pretty much hammering me himself.
And fake, you're basically saying that I'm scum because you think I worked very hard to defend the roleblocker so that if there are any PR's the cop doesn't find me or the doctor want stop a kill. But I disagree with this because if I were scum knowing that my roleblocker is under a lot of pressure I'd try to make as little of a ruckus as possible so that if there is a cop he won't investigate me. I started a wagon on you with the full ignorance that Nik was scum or a roleblocker for that matter and I started it because the reasons you voted for Nik seemed scummy to me as they seemed scummy to Zach who supported it. Then if I was scum I wouldn't just kill zach who supported me both in thinking that you were scum and in thinking that I'm town, why would I kill someone who supports me and who I could later frame when I could just as easily kill someone else without giving my identity away.

[Kalofer]

Why wouldn't they have bussed their roleblocker? Scum would do anything to avoid attracting suspicion and if I am scum then I have failed and I mean epic-ly FAILED to do this. Like I said even if there are PR's the mafia, wanting to avoid suspicion will buss the roleblocker so as to avoid enough suspicion for the cop to investigate him. Furthermore once again you seem to have no explanation for the Zach killed, why would I if i were scum kill him, Zach who also thought I was town and supported me when I could have killed you Nashi or Abe who have a neutral tell on me and are hence likelier to suspect and question me.

[Kalofer]

I wonder if you see the irony in it, in day 1 the only thing we had on DP was his acting incredibly unorthodox (and the his request to mod kill me which wasn't really important) and he turned out to be town. The next day we or at least I had absolutely nothing to incriminate Nikanor, the only thing you had was lurking but that is a null tell because you can never know why a person simply isn't posting. Funnily enough he turned out to be scum. And what you have on me now is just that I was against the lynch of a person who later turned out to be scum.

[Kalofer]

well obviously you've been looking at things really bad because:
1) YOU'RE WRONG
2) YOU'RE VERY WRONG
3) YOU'RE SO VERY VERY WRONG
and I'm waiting for the hammer to prove it.
Please tell me WHY "If mafia were to buss their roleblocker, they risk insta-loss tomorrow, as well as giving away the setup information to town and PRs."
because you just don't make sense, and I know you don't make sense because:
1) YOU'RE WRONG
2) YOU'RE VERY WRONG
3) YOU'RE SO VERY VERY WRONG

[Kalofer]

All of you (and probably me though I haven't paid attention to what I've said) here are a bunch of hypocrites, you have ALL (maybe except nashi but what did he say anyway) and as such all of you seem scummy to me.
@Mod isn't nashi due for a prod yet? I wouldn't want to self hammer before hearing everyone to tell the FAREWELL FAILURES
(and sorry for the post after post thing, I know I shouldn't be doing it but my mind works on a spontaneous basis in which idea is followed by idea so that I end up typing a lot of short posts down. I easily forget ideas and have to type them down when they come and I wouldn't want to keep notes because that would be a waste of trees).

[Kalofer]

After a townie lynched in Day1, a townie being killed in night 1, and another one in night 2 with no one claiming to have done something or being someone, the chances are really against there being power roles. Once again you simply assume too much and you can't tell me why if I were scum I would kill Zach. Once again your logic is founded upon probability and as such it cannot entirely be trusted and is if I may add WRONG because I am a townie. Tell me, when I flip town, what will you do, lynch Nashi because he has been lurking? You willing to take that gamble? Then again it is all you have been doing.

[Kalofer]

While I do admit that his theory has a higher probability of occurring than mine it is ultimately wrong. Of course when you're gambling you'd want to place your money where you have the highest chance of winning even though it may not be successful. Still there is one part in the theory that completely doesn't compute and that is: why kill zach? Why kill someone who PR's can also investigate? If you can cover that part by giving me an answer other than "WIFOM to defend yourself" I will admit to being outplayed and defeated as even though I would still be town at least the facts will claim otherwise.

[Kalofer]

Why am I seeming more and more scummy, you're just saying something and not giving explanations for it and why do I seem unskilled what would a "skilled" player have done in my place genius? I've been trying to scumhunt while everyone was voting for me, what have you done? I've posted why I think a lot of people can be scum I just can't make up my mind who more so than everyone else. That post you just wrote there makes you and not me seem all the more scummier. TAKE THAT FOR UNSKILLED AND NEWB!

[Kalofer]

Why are you waiting for Nashi or Tvell to hammer why don't you just ask me? Oh wait I forgot it somehow gives you more info who lynched me but you're the one who gave the order. WTF is this? And in my last game people didn't stop saying how dumb it is for a townie to self hammer but now I see how dumb I've been in trying to convince you all this time *sigh*

[Kalofer]

Fake I just gave you about 4 plausible, possible explanations if you would go back and re read my posts yet you continue to stick to the most expected and straightforward one. As if you had a plausible explanation to lynch Nik right? Please don't talk about plausibility, you lynched a lurker and now just because he's dead you think by some weird process of probability you want to call "extermination" you're gonna lynch me.

[Kalofer]

Hey nashi, maybe I can request someone being modkilled for some God forsaken reason so you can finally get the guts to hammer me, that is if you want the blood of another townie on your hands.

[Kalofer]

You are still avoiding my question, why do I look scummier and scummier, you are not offering explanations, don't you see how you are looking scummier and scummier. At this rate no one is going to hammer me. Make up your minds already.

[Kalofer]

Oh and by the way, other than the theories you have on me, have I actually been acting scummy? If so can you point instances where I have out?

[Kalofer]

Abe, why do we both have to go on repeating ourselves? I agree with you that it will be a mislynch, but why mislynch when you can try lynching the scum, if we mislynch today we cannot afford to do so tomorrow. As to my defending myself so damn much it is simply because I am different from Fake and actually do mind being lynched knowing that I am a townie because it will weaken town. I am not the type of person who will just take being attacked and attacked and finally lynched without defending myself and trying to prove that I'm not scum. What I don't understand is why no one has hammered me yet.

Though I agree with you right now that Nashi is acting very scummy. Apart from my theory on Fake, I so far have little scummy behaviour from him this day and I guess his scummy behaviour from yesterday is nullified by the lynching of scum. You I find as being town, you genuinely seem to scum hunt and seem pro town to me in general. Tvell I do not know, his hammer of Nik could be an attempt to gain town cred but his haphazard style of playing before that seems more town to me than a clever ploy to throw us off his track. Nashi however has been acting scummy today. He came in after so much time absent without any explanation whatsoever, he did not scum hunt at all and he suddenly says I'm scum and a newb again without any explanation whatsoever. He didn't stop saying how much he doesn't want to hammer me just because he thinks he'll be lynched tomorrow in a subtle attempt to tell us he's town. This whole game he has been playing in a modest manner for example, when I pointed out his math in Fake's 3 theories was wrong he didn't stop repeating how it doesn't matter as if trying to advocate lynching by probability would be scummy.

[Kalofer]

I just have to say that that was one bad move hammering nashi before he had the chance to say anything, at this point with our new found knowledge of player roles, I think it would be better if we all re - read the thread and formulate opinions on which one of us is scummiest. Now if I was the scum, with Abe having already voted for tvell, I would have voted tvell and secured myself a quick victory (I'm just saying I hope that clears me out).

[Kalofer]

If I make the wrong decision, I will forever hold down my head in shame if ever I see any of you again.

[Kalofer]

why did you hammer nashi without letting him say anything abe? You must understand that that was an extremely scummy move and was in a small part a reason why we were voting for him.

[Kalofer]

This is it, the pressure has been too much for me and usually when a lot of pressure builds up on me (as you may have noticed) I say "F*** IT" and try to not give a damn and this is what I will do again now. In all honesty I cannot find something definite that will make one of you scummier than the other. To all, know that I may as well be flipping a coin when doing this but either my inability to play this game correctly or overall stupidity/blindness prevents me from accurately determining who of the 2 here are scum. There is Abe's seemingly innocent bussing of Nik at the start which can now be taken to be suspicious or innocent (it's hard for me to decide), then there's also the fact that Tvell hardly said anything to Nik at all. There is also Abe's flying under radar to take into account and his similar behaviour to that of Nik (which fits as a newb would follow in the footsteps in one he considers more experienced). But then there is Tvell's unusual/aggressive behaviour too, which I also cannot determine if it is town or scum. And now here comes the crucial bit: Abe votes for Nik 2nd when 4 votes make the majority, Tvell hammers Nik. Voting 2nd doesn't seem suspicious at all but it's pretty important when 4 votes are the majority and it's the ideal moment to vote when you want to bus your buddy without drawing attention and even more fascinating is Abe's reason, a copy of Fake's: GUT TELL (TO HELL WITH GUT TELLS, hey that kinda rhymes ..I suck) anyway. Then there is the hammer, Tvell could have done that to gain some much needed town cred and if he is scum and has, then DAMN YOUR TOWN CRED but I don't think he hammered him for that, but because he really is town.

So if you disregard what I wrote, which like most things that I write is badly punctuated and hard to follow, you will see that I am now going to vote for:
VOTE: Abe27342

The future of this game is in God's hands now and forgive me if I fail town. Mod, it's all yours now.

[Kalofer]

And that is why this game is IMO essentially probability. Too bad. Sorry Abe, and everyone else.

[Kalofer]

Ok it's not exactly probability but it's a guessing game, a game with no certainties. Aren't gut tells a form of higher brain function whereby people are determined as to whether or not they are scum simply by how the person responds to their statements. Aren't they ultimately a form of opinion? It would be cool to have a game where people only talk and by a given deadline each votes according to gut tell and a similar one involving scum-tells to compare accuracy though unfortunately it would be hard to make this a fair experiment.
Well it's pretty late here and I have to go. Sorry again for the mistake I've made if what you're telling is the truth Abe (though I have no reason to not believe you) and see you tomorrow.

[Kalofer]

Nah, all this time I was sleeping lol, I was so liking bear team for scum I guess I wanted Abe to be scum, shows how much I suck though. Tvell if you think that your telling anyone you're convinced I'm town made me sympathise with you, you are absolutely wrong, it actually made me more suspicious of you. However, in the end, you just seemed too crazy and erratic to seem like scum to me. Though what unnerved me more than your defense of me was when Abe started saying he's been sure I was town all this time. Tvell, you played a really good game there, congrats on your win.
And one last time, sorry for the epic fail (I should have known not to vote Abe, when I've been having bad luck all day lol).

[Kalofer]

Perhaps the game would have gone on better if we hadn't lynched you at all David or at least it would have had a totally different turning.