Newbie 980 ~ Game Over

[CSL]

The 11 days remaining Vote Count

Nexus (3) Earlder1, Beefster, Haylen

a2rudeboy (1) Mr. Flay
Earlder1 (1) Nexus
Mr. Flay (1) Zajnet

Not Voting: Kov, jmurph3, a2rudeboy

---

Deadline and Lynch info

Currently set for Wednesday, July 28th, at 7:00pm EST

There are NINE alive, so FIVE votes on a player will lynch.

Nexus is currently at L-2

V/LA's and Prods

Kov replaces BagSquad.

Etc.

[Earlder1]

Alrighty then, let's get rolling.

I agree with Haylen's analysis of Nexus' posts so some extent. As for tunneling, I'm not sure there's really enough information to make that claim, but I do see some of Nexus' posts in a rather scummy light. His defense is awful as well, which has pretty much confirmed my vote on him. For all of you guys with notes keeping track, my vote is no longer due to the RVS, I believe Nexus is the scummiest player in the game.

As for Haylen's request for a list, I am going to politely deny that for similar reasons. Any number of lurkers could also be scum and giving full lists would give them lots of information useful to lead to mislynches before they even contribute. Therefore, I'm just going to stick with this.

And now I will respond to Haylen's questions to me.
1. I like to know, mainly because it can help me gauge how much experience that person would have, as well as give me a place to meta if I feel the need.
2. I don't really like cases based off of gut and they tend not to convinve me. I do get my own gut feelings but I correlate them to actual deductions I make about how they have played in the game. I am unimpressed by "gut voting".

[Nexus]

Bugger.

I can't actually think of any other way of defending myself, so I'm not going to try. I'm town, but it doesn't seem like I'm going to change your mind. Nevermind.

[Kov]

Ok, Hello everyone just reading the thread (I actually started a few days ago because i wasn't sure how the game worked. Pretty lucky I choose this thread it seems )

It's my first game so expect me to be dam noobie

[Kov]

Ok, going to answer Haylen's questions for BagSquad because for most intents and purposes i am him.


1. Why are you lurking?

2. Do you consider lurking to be scummy?
3. Do you honestly believe you are capable of giving this game the committment it deserves or do you think it would be best if you replaced out? I know of a lot of newbies who have just lurked and lurked through games because real life has taken over, then they eventually flake out and we don't see them again. I generally see a higher percentage of newbie returns in newbies who have requested replacement. Know your limits.
4. Who would you like to lynch right now and why?
5. What do aim to achieve from discussion on Day One?

[Kov]

whoops(note to self don't try to quick post)

Anyway

1. I'd say because he didn't have the time seeing as he was replaced
2. I think it's probably a factor but not that major I am sure every player lurks at some point
3. I do now No more lurking here
4. Nexus or Haylen, I don't really know but i think they might be playing off each other (People do that right?)
5.To hopefully lynch a scum that be a great start to playing Mafia.

FOS: Haylen, Nexus

I think they both are either scum or there both not i can't decide so no vote yet.

[Nexus]

Bugger.

I can't actually think of any other way of defending myself, so I'm not going to try. I'm town, but it doesn't seem like I'm going to change your mind. Nevermind.

Sorry. I realise this is self-hammering. Or. What I understand to be self-hammering. That wasn't the intention.

I've obviously never been in this situation before, but I dunno what else to say. I mean, yeah.

I'm probably digging myself further here, but I'm trying my best to prove I'm town.

[Kov]

Vote: Nexus

I don't know i just get a scum read but it's so early but mabye someone will unvote. Sorry if you are a townie by the way.

[Kov]

i meant maybe*

[Nexus]

Mmm. Ok then.

If you lynch me, then I sincerely hope the rest of you townies succeed in lynching actual mafia. Let's hope that we don't regret this, and the scum don't win.

It was an interesting experience, anyway.

Before I do get lynched, I have this to say:

Haylen has led this lynch. Keep an eye on her.
Kov has come in and jumped on the bandwagon. Not enough time to form an opinion.
Earlder's posted very sporadically, two posts saying the same thing, one to lynch me, and random fluff for the rest of it. I'm still suspicious.
Jmurph has posted to try and help the newbies, I'm not suspicious of her.
Beefster claimed not to have internet, which is probably true, but he has come back and immediately gone for a lynch.
The others haven't really done anything.

Mreh. Sorry guys.

[Kov]

1. You are not lynched yet
2. Most people who have voted you gave a reason if you want I can quote them.

I read this whole topic two days ago I thought you were scum and tbh I have no idea how to be sure and 90% of the games I looked at always lose a townie first

[Nexus]

I'm L-1. All it needs is for one of the actual mafia to now waltz in, and vote for me, and you've lost a townie.

I know they've given me a reason, and they're understandable, and they're all ones I can't argue against. I dunno what else I can say to defend myself because I was playing how I thought I should. I know for future reference, and any future games I'll do better, I guess.

[Haylen]

Um. Can we please note that i

DID NOT

ask you all for a list of most pro-town and most scummy players. I asked for your opinions on each player, that's a completely different thing.

[Nexus]

You're still the one behind the spurring people on into pointing the finger, whichever way you went about it. I was merely commenting, so as people don't forget that.

You're getting pretty defensive now, as well.

[Haylen]

I'm not defensive. I'm paranoid. And i still have that migraine.

[Nexus]

So it's ok for you to be paranoid, that's not scummy, but when I'm really paranoid, that's a scum tell?

unvote

I'm suspicious of you.

FoS Haylen

for what it's worth.

[Haylen]

I cant remember you using paranoia as a defence.

[Nexus]

"Nexus wrote:I've been a bit wary about keeping silent, but I don't particularly want to fuck up."

You responded with "Why would a townie be worried about keeping silent about anything."

That's me being paranoid about fucking up.

[Nexus]

EBWOP:

Sorry. I should've added that as a reason for me being wary about being silent and suchlike. I was paranoid that not speaking would be seen as lurking.

[Haylen]

There's a big difference there. You're worried about fucking up. I've always gone by the following moto on MS: "You're all scum and you're all out to get me!"

[Nexus]

Alrighty. Sorry for the confusion.

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry, Orbiting kidnapped me yesterday and I didn't meet my midnight deadline. Catching up now... (warning, this is going to have a lot of random suspicion in it, as I'm essentially participating in the first 6 pages all at once; I'll boil it down before I'm through).

---

RVS looks fairly typical. a2rudeboy and Nexus get scumbuddy points for where Nexus' eventual vote landed once RVS was explained to him, and a2rudeboy's commentary about people trying to kill us. That's small fry, though... Earlder1 makes no bones about wanting to target Nexus early, which isn't buddying but is weird-looking to me. It's Nexus' first game on the site, why wouldn't he always be confused?

millar13 is... being millar13, on page 1-2. Did he get force-replaced? Ohhh no, he asked for replacement. Interesting. On a sidebar I looked at millar's meta when he's scum: Only two I found, weirdly, is a mini where he also requested replacement (page 4) after getting heat, and a mini where he was modkilled for incredibly rude behavior. Very interesting indeed... yes, I know millar's a Village Idiot in general, but he doesn't usually get tossed out of games. I don't think he likes being scum...

jmurph3's post #47 is... interesting, in that she essentially admits to not saying anything on purpose, then goes on to rattle off a bunch of rules, not content. Definitely keeping an eye on her as I read...

BagSquad/Kov's #50 is pretty flippant. "A lady in the house" - really? Also, a

third

fourth unvote in a row is NOT the way RVS usually ends... BagSquad

or Vamparific

(whoops, that's me) scumpair with millar/Haylen?

Anyway, Haylen then shows up as millar's replacement with a post that looks like the 'standard IC intro' except that she's clearly tailored it to this game's situation.

Haylen: Why did you post that after jmurph3 had essentially done the same thing the previous page?

You were clearly aware enough of the game state to know millar's behavior. Nexus and a2rudeboy gain no townie points for their reaction to Haylen's non-entrance.

Haylen's next post bears quoting rather than just linking:

Ooooh! I only have powers to edit my OWN posts in other peoples newbie game threads. Not other peoples

Also, AR, I agree with you on that point. I would FoS and possibly lynch him for what he did, if this were not a newbie game.

FoS Millar/Haylen

It doesn't matter that I'm the person who replaced him. I did know his role before I replaced in, because I seem to have very good reads on certain players.

You knew his role? What was it? Why did you FoS yourself?!? And why the side comment about editing posts? Did you fix something?? Then you vote the person about to be prodded, who hasn't showed up in 3 pages.

Nexus' response to CSL's request for more content actually strikes me as rather pro-town, and I like his insight into Earlder1's possible motives for asking for experience. I don't agree with it, but it's a good thing to notice. Not getting the Nexus-hate on pages 6/7.

Then Haylen tries Random Questioning Stage to jumpstart things. Points for the effort, but then she picks....

jmurph3 as her lynch of choice

?!? As a

lurker

... really?? jmurph's been one of the more consistently active players, and regardless, you're not voting them at this point! You were still voting for the being-replaced ChibiSanNub/Zajnet. Also of note is the self-meta-excuse of posting fluff given in this post... I'm really not liking my other IC at this point.

Nexus gets weirdly fatalistic at this point, even though at this point he only has one vote on him. Usually that's a town tell in a newbie, but it could go either way for me. Plus, apparently it could be meds from the operation.

*sigh* Back to Haylen... next she says not posting content is scummy because scum are 'desperate to cast suspicion about', but her complaint is actually that BagSquad/Kov isn't doing

anything

- how is that desperate action to throw suspicion? In any case the point is kind of moot now that BS has been replaced, but it's another odd comment. Pair that with the "everyone post who you think is town and scum, right now" and my scumdar is going off like a fire alarm. Asking for who is TOWN on Day One just gives scum a shopping list for Night One... Beefster beat me to this comment, so he gets townie cookies (even better than points).

Nexus comes in and replies, and I have some sympathy here. Haylen's arrival seems to be the driving force between a 1-vote wagon at the top of page 6, and a L-1 wagon by post 157. Kov looks pretty bloodthirsty with an early vote here, but he does say it's his first game.

Nexus' next "I give up" post is just awful... teetering now on whether it makes them town or scum. And for the record, that's not self-hammering, self-hammering is when you vote yourself to push a lynch to completion. DON'T DO THAT!!! What I think you should do now is tell us your role, if you have one. I expect you to be a Vanilla Townie, but if you are somehow the Cop/Doc we need to know that now so we don't lose a power role Day 1.

I read this whole topic two days ago I thought you were scum and tbh I have no idea how to be sure and 90% of the games I looked at always lose a townie first

Why did you read the game two days ago?

---

Okay, that's everything, I'm caught up now (the bickering back and forth on this page between Haylen and Nexus isn't really useful, as it's drifting into OMGUS territory).

tldr

: Millar/Haylen looks bad to me in both incarnations. I could go either way on Nexus, but really I think Haylen is a better bet right now. She claims to be a gut player, but is asking a lot of questions and giving a lot of analysis, which would have to be retrofitted to her suspicions if she was playing by gut. Beefster looks townish, as does jmurph. Everybody else I have weak opinions on.

UNVOTE: a2rudeboy, VOTE: Haylen

[a2rudeboy]

As scummy as Nexus has seemed at various points in all of this, I definitely do not feel comfortable about pulling the trigger at this moment. I was rubbed the wrong way by the tirade which basically boiled down to "I'm town, don't kill me, oh i guess it's all over anyway." It kind of seemed like the equivalent of a newbie temper tantrum.

Kov- is interesting. Jumping into the game and directly putting someone at l1 seems incredibly scummy, but i think at some point can be allowed for over-excitedness in just starting to play mafia and wanting to make a bit of a splash right away. Perhaps they don't know the true implications of what they are doing.

For me, the millar/haylen combination has always been the scummiest character in the game. Each for their own reasons. Looking at those minis and the rest of millar's meta, it does look like what he did here wasn't strange based on his meta. There's the argument that he replaced out because of problems with mod, but those problems were there before our game started. He could have replaced out right away seeing who the mod was, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility of trying to deliberately sabotage the game because of the mod (ie: he comes in, pisses everyone off, scumtells, then replaces, letting whoever pick up the pieces.) FWIW, haylen

has

made efforts to move this game forward, but i still see it in sort of a trying to be the voice of reason/controlling sort of way. Also there appears to be a bit of 'i play this way, if you don't like it, tough" going on.

vote:haylen

[jmurph3]

So I also want to try the area thing. I didn't know that existed.

Let's start with Beefster:

Second suspect: jmurph3
It seems like she's just agreeing with Nexus. Her play doesn't seem genuinely IC to me.
ISO3- WHOA! She goes from "OMG YOU NEED TO DIE" to "meh" in less than 3 hours. Scummy.

Firstly, I never said "OMG YOU NEED TO DIE", nor did I even imply it. I eased off of millar because I could tell that we were getting mired in that instead of trying to scumhunt whatsoever. I also unvoted at that point because we were moving out of RVS. I don't hold my RVS vote out of RVS.

ISO3-5- it looks like she's trying to change targets gradually as to not look like a scummy bandwagoning maniac.

How was I bandwagoning at all? I actually moved off of a bandwagon when I saw where it was going.

ISO9 reeks of inconsistency. Earlier, she refused to answer Earlder's experience question, stating that it will clog up the thread. She seems to be against the questions, but proceeds to answer them anyway for no apparent reason. WTF is up with this suddden paradigm shift?

Here's the thing: I didn't like Earlder's question because it isn't relevant. Experience is a null tell, as roles are assigned randomly. Haylen's questions, while I didn't like them, at least were relevant to the game, hence why I answered them. Not a sudden paradigm shift at all.

She also claims she isn't lurking by saying she posts "fairly regularly." (which is a half truth: regularly =/= frequently)
The answer to #3 is hypocritical, more or less.

It's only hypocritical if I'm a lurker, which I'm not. And if posting frequently is the only way to not be considered a lurker, than I guess I'm screwed. I work during the week, and don't have the luxury of being able to post multiple times during the day. It's not lurking, at least, not the way I view lurking. Lurking to me is purposely avoiding posting. I have not done that.

The end of ISO10 looks like she's coaching Nexus.
------------
I feel that her scumminess is dependent on Nexus's alignment. Definitely some buddying going on here.

HoS: jmurph3

Not buddying, or coaching. Just trying to be helpful to a newb.

If I had to pick a third suspect, I would go with Haylen, for one reason and one reason only: wanting a full scum list. Aside from that, her play has been pro-town.

Speaking of buddying, though, you seem to be basing a lot of what you're saying off of Haylen. Bit hypocritical there. And I love the way you throw in your suspicion of her at the bottom of your post so that you can pretend like you're not.

FoS: Beefster

Obviously buddying with Haylen, parroting everything she says, and hypocritical.

Regarding Nexus:

As far as the Nexus thing goes, I really don't understand. Nexus, to me, is newb neutral. All of the things that I see Nexus doing are typical newbie mistakes and are not indicative of alignment. Granted, Nexus could still be scum, but the mistakes he's making aren't indicating that to me at the moment. In fact, Nexus' play reminds me a lot of my first game, where I was a newb VT, and came under heat on D1 and reacted in the same way.

Personally, I hope no one hammers at this point as I think that we have a lot more discussion that could and should come out on D1 before we lynch anyone. I really don't like kov's vote on Nexus - coming in, quick voting without reason, and putting someone at L1 because of it? Bad play, IMO.

FoS: kov

Also, there seems to be some confusion about the list Haylen asked for. Personally, I'm not going to give it for the same reasons already mentioned. Haylen claims:

Um. Can we please note that i

DID NOT

ask you all for a list of most pro-town and most scummy players. I asked for your opinions on each player, that's a completely different thing.

But what she really asked was this (bold added by me):

From you, I just want a list of everybodies names and what you think about them,

whether you think they are town or scum.

[/quote]

That, to me, seems to be asking for a list of town and scum. Very anti-town, IMO.

FoS: Haylen

.

Very impressed with the analysis by Mr. Flay. Seems to be very thorough in reading through everything. I look forward to reading more from him.

I'm concerned with the turn this day has taken. Actually, I'm glad that discussion has come out, as that only helps town. My worry that this game would never get off the ground has not come true, thankfully Currently, however, I'm worried that we're going to get a quicklynch on Nexus, who, at this point, I think will probably flip town. Oh - and Nexus, you may want to claim. Personally, from the way you've been talking about it in your posts, I think you've already claimed townie at one point or other, though whether you were actually meaning to do that, or were just using town/townie interchangeably, I don't know.

For now, I'm going to say

vote: Kov

. Your vote on Nexus seems very opportunistic, and I don't like the way you didn't give a real explanation for it. It's a perfect move for scum to make at this point.

[jmurph3]

Ugh, ninja'd by a2rudeboy's post! I think it'll be interesting to see how Haylen responds to the votes on her, and I'm going to refrain from commenting further to wait for her response.