New York 116 - Prozacs Large Normal - Who won?

[mothrax]

Hey guys. This should be much mor fun than the 10-12 player games I am used to.

[mothrax]

VOTE: Charlie: I don't like bunnies. Or unicorns...

[mothrax]

I find Zorblags posting style quaint and endearing. So there

[mothrax]

woo gunslinging... also, since benmage's signature tells me to, I guess I will blindly follow him...

Unvote: Charlie
Vote: toon fighter

[mothrax]

woo gunslinging... also, since benmage's signature tells me to, I guess I will blindly follow him...

Unvote: Charlie
Vote: toon fighter

Unvote
Vote mothrax

I do not like your sheepish behavior. Benmage was at least random, your reasoning is just bad (derp, BMs sig told me to do it).

I was just trying to be funny, and to get rvs moving, since I really don't like it... but ok.

[mothrax]

I didn't attempt to end it because I haven't seen anything of note to call anyone one yet.

[mothrax]

I do find it interesting that Mothrax stated that he didn't like the RVS, yet still did nothing to get out of it, instead extending RVS even further by posting his joke "his sig told me to" vote.

A variant of the question I asked AGar was also supposed to go to Mothrax: If you hate the RVS so much, why did you place a me too vote instead of giving analysis? If you had to place a non-random vote on a player right now for the purposes of getting them lynched, who would it be and why would their lynch help us?

Because at the time of posting it, I did not have time to reread the thread, and yes, I dislike(hate is a strong word) RVS, but I also realize its necessity to some extent.
If I had to place a vote on someone now?
AGar, because he is unsucessfully bandwagon hoping with out an actual bandwagon, and some of his interactions with Zorblag and Fugi come off as slightly (<---most important word in the post) scummy to me. though that is part of my issue with RVS, yeah you can watch and gauge reactions, but there is never any hint as to whether or not the other person is serious.
Also, did I not achieve what I was hoping for? The very next post after mine was serious discussion.

[mothrax]

Toogeloo - do you feel that mothrax's vote was indicative of scummy behavior, anti-town or RVS shenanigans?

It came off masked as RVS I think,

but his vote on Toon Fighter seemed like a way to get another train going

, and it's a very good point that he would use the excuse to vote Toon Fighter that it's still Random when he states he doesn't like the RVS at all.

Why would I start another train as opposed to hopping on one of the three that had already started? Also, in my orriginal posts I never said I wanted to end rvs, rather "get it moving." I dunno about you but I see a major difference.

also VOTE: diginova
His recent attempts at deflecting attention from him concern me.

[mothrax]

Just want to say I have more to post once I get home from work this evening.

[mothrax]

Just want to say I have more to post once I get home from work this evening.

Why would you even waste space with this post? You have 72 hours from the last post before prods are even necessary, so why give us an update on when you plan to post later that day when it hasn't even been that long since your last post? Are you just trying to appear active?

No, I could care less whether or not I appear active... I was simply stating that I realized there were some questions asked/ things I needed to respond to but I couldn't get to them atm. I have seen people eaten alive in games because they hadn't responded to things quick enough, so I thought I would acknowledge the fact that I would do so when I had the time. Sorry to waste your space and the precious 30 seconds of your life. It won't happen again.

#82 and #87. In one, you say your preferred choice for where you would place your vote is Agar, but for an unexplained reason, you don't vote him. Why not?

Because time had elapsed between the two posts... enough time for me to realize my read on AGar wasn't as scummy as I thought... My read on digi has become progressively more scummy as time has gone by, mainly for the reasons CCAR mentioned.

[mothrax]

woohoo! there is a wagon on me... that is always fun... also, how can an absurd combination of mothra and anthrax not be cool?

[mothrax]

Yeah, with a 5 vote wagon, I really don't care... It is actually benificial to town because we can analyze the wagon.

[mothrax]

So, my case against digi:
4th in iso: This is little, but he twists my words around, stating I "hate" rvs, which is not what I actually said. Points to possibly trying to make a situation a bigger deal than it actually is.

Have you read the thread? I have posted all the defense I will give on the matter; I explained my actions and if people feel that it warrants a lynch, there's not much I can say to change that and I'd rather use my time to find scum.

Instead of refering to where he actually states said argument, he gets defensive, using a grand statement to show that he "doesn't care"
and in that same post:

People that try taking any and all suspicion off them by giving no information and then reversing whenever the slightest question is asked are very scummy, and deserving of an FOS: CCARaven4

not even a vote. Only seven posts in iso, two of them during RVS, only one vote, and that was as a policy lynch/rvs vote. That tells me that you are scum who doesn't want to get on anyones bad side.
So tell me digi, if you find CCAR so scummy, why not vote for him?
And when asked why you haven't been posting, you claim "there is nothing worth commenting on." Isn't that synonomous with "If I don't post people might move on and forget my name?"

[mothrax]

I think that the LAL policy lynch is a good idea but difficult to enforce...

[mothrax]

With all the unvoting and voting going on I have no idea where I sit... I think L-3, and so in that case it is time to get serious...
@Benmage: was there any reason for your vote on me in post 102? Other than the whole:

Agree.
Likin post 91. vote mothrax

I think it is interesting that you post a wall o' text talking about several completely different subjects, and then in the middle of it (where it is easily lost unless you are looking for a vote) you vote me with a "what he said" logic, not even providing your own logic. You haven't even said anything else to justify your vote.

@Mr. Sandman: did you forget who you voted for? You vote for me, providing a reasonable explination, and then question others as to why they were joining the bandwagon... isn't towns job trying to get someone they think is scum lynched? and if you still think I am scum, why try and discourage others from voting me?

@Fugi: You voted for me, adding to the bandwagon, but your reason was rediculous... digi has a cooler name? You haven't contributed anything of note to the game other than short little quips that mirror what the people before you said...The only time you posted orriginal content was to defend yourself from a RVS accusation, some call me opportunistic... I would say the same about you. I find that incredibly suspicious...

FoS: Fugitive

@Zorblag: His vote for me was the last he posted, but it was for the same thing as a lot of people voting for me.

So to try and explain myself (again) I will say this: When asked "If you had to place a vote now, who would it be?" My interpretation was if it was deadline and you had to pick someone to lynch who would I vote for. At the time I thought AGar was scummy because of all of his votehopping... I hadn't had a chance to reread the whole thing and had just skimmed most of the wall o texts... After I re-read the thread I changed my mind. I didn't really see AGar as scummy, just as an agressive player. I did however see digi as scum for the reasons I have already listed.
I will keep that vote where it is.

[mothrax]

@Zorblag No, his claim doesn't... even if the roleclaim is true, like you said, the allignment could go either way. I don't necessarily believe him when he says that he is town alligned...

[mothrax]

@Benmage: like that in what way?

[mothrax]

@Benmage: It was really where it was placed and how it was put that put me off a bit, though some of that could have been the tags...

at all: I could agree with a charlie wagon, given the evidence atm

[mothrax]

TF, why don't you like my reaction to your vote on me? What about it specifically?

[mothrax]

um... no.... seriously Lowell? 5 posts, none with content, and no scumhunting whatsoever...
That reeks of lurking...
UNVOTE: VOTE: Lowell

[mothrax]

its less lowells lurking and more the "I will join whatever bandwagon looks fun" statement... he does not even give a reason for his lack of hunting. Not only that, but he flat out admits he isn't really going to think for himself.

[mothrax]

V/LA from 7/29 to 8/4

I will have access but I am not sure how much...

[mothrax]

Lowell, if you had read, it was a six person at one point, and I defended myself then. If you want me to repeqrmyself sure keep pushing, if not, re-read and go do some actual scumhunting.

[mothrax]

@TF: I wasn't worried about an early D-1 wagon because they happen. I figured it would bottom out at about l-3/l-4 and oh look, I was right... as per attacking digi and not defending myself, the best defense is a good offense... what I say about myself will be interpreted however you want to interpret it... what I say about others speaks more. Why quit scumhunting if I don't have too?
Also, C: WHAT? I voted for him because he made the comment "I will jump on whatever wagon looks fun." Not because it looked fun... if you are going to attack me, at least do it well... that means reading the entirety of my posts, including punctuation and the last word of a sentence.

Unvote, Vote:Toon Fighter

It seems to me like you are trying to say under the radar a little with only 6 posts in ISO. Also, it looks like you are fishing for reasons to justify your vote... which btw is not for who you say you are the most suspicuous of.

[mothrax]

Everyone who finds me scummy (or finds me to be the "scummiest person in the game") please explain to me what exactly it is you find me scummy for. Since multiple people are claiming that they "don't like" such and such about me and that I have apparently failed to properly defend myself against attacks, I would like to know specifically what those attacks are, since all I see are "reaction to vote" as well as "needs more pressure"
I can't defend myself if I don't know why you are attacking me...
I will say this (again.) My reaction to the bandwagon was relaxed for multiple reasons.
A)It wasn't that large of a wagon, L-4/L-3 are not worrisome numbers for me, especially relatively early D1.
B)If the wagon had been succesful, it would have aided town anyways... I have people claiming I am just looking out for myself which I don't see. Yeah, it would be nice to stay alive, but if I die, I die and can still win. My death would have also allowed the town to analyze the wagon on me, and analyze my interaction with others (i.e. who came down on me hardest, etc...) IMO voting patterns and interactions with confirmed players are some of the most resourceful tools for town to use.

[mothrax]

Sorry toogaloo, I have been on vacation and not near my computer very often but Iam home now...
I didn't vote TF because I was trying to slip away, I did it because I find him scummy.

@Mothrax: I didn't really like your answer because a) It was more about attacking digi first and only defending yourself when you were really under pressure (L-3) and b) you didn't answer my post directly. Why did you dismiss the growing wagon on you?, and now c) Jumping on Lowell's wagon beacuse "it's fun"

Responses in order:
A and B) already answered that...I wasn't worried about an early D1 wagon... if I had spent all of my energy trying to find an answer to every single attack on me I would not have had time to concentrate on what is more important: finding the real scum.
C) You misread what I wrote... lowells statement was that he would vote for whatever wagon seems fun. That was the reasoning behind my vote, not my actual words...
Scum try and find reasons to make someone look suspicious and misrepresenting someone elses words is a perfect example of that.
That is why my vote is where it is.

[mothrax]

Sorry, my V/LA lasted longer than expected due to illness... I will try to reread and post sometime tonight

[mothrax]

ugh.... I have read and reread and I have no idea who to vote for at this point...

unvote

Wraith is not todays vote... I will be srsly dissapointed if he is the one to die tonight... His insistancy that he be lynched is town or really smart scum (less likely). His open invitation to let others jump on his wagon invalidates any wagon analysis there...
It seems as if I am being pressured to vote for a limited number of people, which seems scummy to me... I need to go back and ISO a few people again... We have 5 days to come up with a lynch, and I am not convinced any of the three are where my vote will lie.

[mothrax]

toog, I always play under the radar... I play overcautious period. not an excuse, but I'm just sayin.

[mothrax]

Benmage: no, no completed games on this site.

[mothrax]

Toogaloo and Toon Fighter both seem scummy to me. They started the day by voting for me one after another... Then as soon as Charlie got more votes on him they both dumped my "wagon" in favor of another. There are several D-1 instances if you look at votecounts, where they obvwagoned or buddied up to each other... (sometimes with benmage in on it, but that strikes me more as them trying to buddy up to him to throw town)
TF lurked for a large part of D-1, and His vote on me early reads OMGUSy to me...

Vote: ToonFighter
FoS:Toogaloo

[mothrax]

Why would I do that when you are scum?

[mothrax]

Wagon on someone I don't read as scum? no thanks...
You are being awfully defensive for someone who has just been FoS'd by a "useless" player.
Worried that someone might actually see you or TF for the scum you are and do something about it?

[mothrax]

Since all I am doing here is apparently being useless, or attacking a player I find scummy (I thought that was what I was supposed to do) I will

unvote

.
I will hammer Charlie when the town decides that is what they want. I don't see what is so scummy but since that is the general consensus and at leas part of his wagon is town I will follow that.
Happy?
If you need me I will be being a good little townie and only pressuring those you all think are scum.

[mothrax]

ebwop:

unvote

I will answer your question when I have time to reread.

[mothrax]

Ok, so Iwrote up a big post on my phone, but my phone decided to delete it before it posted....
Here is the gist of it:
1a) My last post was because I was accusing people I thought were scummy and being called out as anti-town for it. We are supposed to vote for who we think are the scummiest are we not?
2b) to answer Toog's question: Right now, I feel like AGar did a great job early D1 leading town, but I am wary of him for that exact reason, he is good at leading town. And he dropped his activity level late D1 during the wraith deal and his quantity (in his posts) has been substantially lower d2.
OSO's claim still doesn't sit well with me and he seems to be pushing a charlie lynch abnormally hard, even though we still have two weeks until deadline.
Zorblag's content level is rediculous. His opening post strikes me as trying to build town cred. He has continuously posted votes "for pressure" but I have yet to see any reactions to the response to that pressure.
Tubby's lack of content is staggering.

vote: tubby

lets get a claim at least.

Also, I would like to openly say I realize my play sucked as of late, but I am working on correcting that issue. Not making promises, but hoping to improve.

[mothrax]

Not liking the way tazaro is reacting to jelly's pushes. Seems like he is trying to just laugh of serious accusations.

unvote, vote tazaro

This is a lynch I can fully support.

[mothrax]

I'm going to disagree with you there Taz, pj brings up a good point. It is less what you said imo and more the fact that you never followed it up. That and the fact that you are being way overdefensive about it.

[mothrax]

no, your hesitance to follow up with your own question...

I don't know whether jailkeeper lacks enough value to nightkill immediately. I would do so if I were in mafiosos' shoes, so I'm interested in what happened last night and it makes me irritatingly suspicious of the events of n1 in a way, but can't get take advantage of the info now since other nights are not yet giving us opportunities.

This is the only answer we got from you, and it screams "I would have done this if I were mafia, but this didn't happen, so I can't be mafia" which strikes me as you trying to buy townpoints and failing hard.

[mothrax]

Ah, I see you're talking about the mothrax wagon. That's not something that Fugitive(now me) and Lowell would have to explain alone. All the people on that wagon could be tunneling mothrax using that logic. And I'm not tunneling mothrax; I unvoted for him.

Also a post that concerns me Taz. Another "I'm not doing this, I can't be scum." post.

[mothrax]

I'm not tunneling mothrax; I unvoted for him.

This is the part that concerns me. You seem to like protesting that since your actions are seemingly not scummy, you cannot infact be scummy.

[mothrax]

ugh... it isn't about what you are doing, but the way you are going about it. Does no one else see this? It looks like a little kid who pushed over a vase and ran to the otherside of the room screaming "I'm over here, so it couldn't have been me!"
With that, it's bed time.

[mothrax]

I get that from your play in general Taz.

[mothrax]

The case on you taz is built on your constant attempts at buddying, the slips I see you to have made regarding the nk and the fact that I hate fluff and out of the 140 posts in your iso proplably 70 % of them are fluff.
To those who think I am scum, please wake up tttt and play the damn game instead of going afte whT you perceive to be an easy target. I will be isoing tf and agar when I get home

[mothrax]

Ebwop: tttt= rtft

[mothrax]

You mean the trying to stretch the town until the very last minute,

What the post I believe you are refering to is being misrepped... I don't want the day to drag like last time, but I didn't think we needed to lynch Charlie right then. I was simply stating that we had more time to discuss further things other than the quickwagon on charlie. We still could have lynched him (and still can,) but I didn't see it as a necessity to do so at that very moment. I was also not the only one to say as such.

not really participating and actively scumhunting, trying to say he's not defending himself but really is, the delayed OMGUS on D2, the "Woe is me" posting on D2, the inherent contradictions (see ISO #32 and 33 for a great example) and the really bad logic

(Zorblag's votes for pressure got no reactions, therefore Zorblag is scummy)

AGAIN A MISREP! do you live to make my life more difficult, or are you just that dumb that you don't understand what I am saying. My suspicion on zorblag had nothing to do with other peoples reactions to his votes and all to do with

his

AND BY HIS I MEAN ZORBLAG lack of analysis on those votes that he has made "for persure"

? =

bolded answered in italics for the sake of time.

[mothrax]

@toog: I got the breadcrumbs which is part of the reason I backed off. I didn't want to out you but just dropping it all would have been a no go too.
My taz vote served it's purpose, so

unvote

.
I will place my vote when I get a chance to reread.

[mothrax]

I said I would hammer, and after a reread some of what was said has convinced me. VOTE: charlie

[mothrax]

Taz, they didn't say Lowell was a null tell to them. They said he was scummy. Read please.
I happen to agree with them. Lowell has bandwagoned almost every vote, and flat out admitted it.
VOTE: Lowell

[mothrax]

Lowell, I am not calling you lazy, I am saying you have obvwagoned on two mislynches.

[mothrax]

It was inevitable nervous suckas turn the tables on me. It's clear I'm lazy of late (new job, new house). But it's equally clear I'm town. Any questions I'm happy to answer. But any high-minded-theories-that-really-just-come-down-to-me-being-lazy I'm happy to ignore.

I pre-empted as an answer to this.

[mothrax]

Hmmm.... seeing that I am more inclined to believe your claim Oso, but please expand on your reads on stef and why you chose to block him.

[mothrax]

Basically, most of my case on Mothrax would boil down between the interaction between him and Toogeloo. Basically, the timeline and Mothrax's Toon Fighter votes and revotes and the fact that Toogeloo was heavily bread crumbing a link between him and Toon Fighter.

Moth said he didn't back off because he didn't want to out them by backing off when his alternative, keep pushing, didn't exactly force Toog to claim early but almost required that Toog do so. My impression is that Toog had to beat Moth over the head with claim simply to get the focus of the game back out where it should be. That indicates to me Moth is dense town or scum that wants to confirm a role he suspects.

What makes Moth scum rather than town (in addition to the above) is the way he interacts with Benmage's vote on him. Benmage votes him because of a quote Sandman made in Post 91. I can agree with Sandman there. But Benmage goes back to Lowell with just about no pressurizing on Moth at all when the case on Moth is VERY much stronger than that on Lowell (Lowell has no real case on him other than policy at the time).

Moth makes two posts (186/193) responding to Benmage and then Ben goes back Lowell. My impression is that Ben got onto the Moth wagon simply as a way to distance should Moth end up dead or vice-versa. Ben's vote on Moth was never serious from his end and Moth's defense in regards to what pressure Ben did bring is weak. Certainly not legitimate effort to deflect a town player off his vote.

I suck at reading crumbs... it took me a long time to realize it and by the time I did and had time to check the thread, toog had claimed. Since my suspicions on him were based mainly on his interactions with TF, the claim changed my mind. Also, no one was listening to my pushing so you saying that I "forced toog to claim" is bull. I was the only one putting pressure on either of them, so why they claimed when if I recall correctly I was being called useless and a waste of a vote is a mystery to me. If you say that my vote was reason I would like to hear it out of their own mouth(s).

As for my interaction with benmage... he jumped on my wagon with little to no reason, I called him out on it, he unvoted me. I was calling him out on where his vote was placed and the fact that it was sammiched in between cases on other players. After he unvoted, I dropped it because it was a defence not an offence. and if it wasn't legit, why did it work.

[mothrax]

my views on tubby since they were asked for is that it is another wagon that rose rather quickly and another probable mislynch. I need to look at votecounts, hopefully I will get a chance to do that today.

[mothrax]

Sandman, my intent is to look at the votes on the last couple wagons as a starting point for a reread. That includes tubby. My hesitance to lynch tubby is based on the fact that a majority of our lynches have been based on lurking and so far those have not turned out well. Having seen zorbs case as well as my own reads, I will probably be willing to hammer soon.

[mothrax]

Im willing to claim first. But I will wait for others to weigh in on this situation.

[mothrax]

We know taz.
I would have liked to have seen stef claim first but since that isn't happening... I would like to see taz claim first.
I am willing to claim first anyways, I have nothing to hide (unless you count my shame in how poorly I have played this game)

[mothrax]

Fine fine, I'm a VT... Since we are popcorning it, taz you're next.

[mothrax]

I feel like taz is going for the easy lynch. Couple that with the wifomness from oso interactions.
@zorb: you case had been consolidated in one post that I could see clearly and understand. I have a hard time wading through a lot of what you post.

[mothrax]

Sorry, no need to prod.
@zorb I went back and looked and couldn't find what exactly made it click in my head but one of your posts when you came back right before tubbys lynch made me go "huh, I see it now."

As for the other towns person, zorb has made quality posts when he was here and his continued suspicion of tubby reads as him being misguided town. I would have been more Leary of him had tubby flipped scum.

[mothrax]

That's stupid. Your play hasn't been clean at all and you suggest we quicklynch anyone who votes for you? That is scummy sir. Especially in a possible lylo or mylo situation. Srsly.

vote tazaro

Quicklynch me and the game is over...

[mothrax]

Taz, stop flailing. It was stated earlier in the game that we shouldn't vote untill we were sure because of the state of the game. I've seen you flail like this before right before you were lynched in [redacted] and you flipped scum. Dude, my vote stands.

[mothrax]

I've read o couple other games with you in them. Just cause I wasn't in them doesn't mean I didn't read them.

[mothrax]

I agree that stef is scumpick ATM. I need to reread taz though.

[mothrax]

Actually, after re-reading Taz, I'm not so sure about Stef... Taz mentions him too much and a lot of it seems forced. Now I don't know who to vote for...
5 players, 2 scum.
Town: Toon
Me
Scum comes from: Zorblag
: Stef
: Sandman
Something about sandman's play doesn't sit right with me but I am not sure what.
TF, since atm you are the only confirmed townie(with toogs death you are confirmed) Who do you think is scum and why)

[mothrax]

I am not sure about stef because of his interactions with Taz. Taz points to him a lot and I can't really tell if it is distancing or newbscum buddying. I know it isn't newbscum, but I am certain that taz would more than likely interact that wa with a buddy. That makes me confident enough in myself to

Vote Stef

I'm going to regret not following my gut, but my brain says stefscum

[mothrax]

*gives flameaxe hugs and eggnogfas, but withholds sex*
I'm still voting you, sorry.

V/LA untill Sunday Evening

[mothrax]

I am not a big fan of large drawn out LYLO's and since the general vibe is that I am going to be lynched to day I am fairly meh right now... That being said:
Sandman and Zorb, Zorb and Sandman...
On one hand I am wary of Zorb because of his extended absence and the way he came back strong. His play since his comeback has been sufficiently pro-town, even if it has been very wallotexthardtoread.
Sandman has been a nullread almost all game for me. However, null<town...

Vote: Sandman

If zorb is scum, good game.

[mothrax]

Shouldve gone with my gut.