Open 227 - Friends and Enemies

[Ythan]

I still need to read up on CSL. He just posted to show that he was here and nothing else.

[chauchaudotcom]

V/LA until Monday

Noted.

[Miyu]

I am taking your posts about CSL to be humorous Ythan. He has 19 posts...

[TheButtonmen]

One of my replacements fell through; the search continues.

Sorry for the delay.

Deadline is 6pm EST on the 20th.

[TheButtonmen]

Inception wins every award including the Vote Count:

CSL (3): Miyu, Xite91, Sanxion
ZeroFang:
AKnottedRope:
Sanxion:
chauchaudotcom (1): Lowell
Lowell :
Xite91:
Ythan (1): AKnottedRope
Miyu:
Octupis (1): chauchaudotcom

Not Voting: Ythan, ZeroFang, CSL and Octupis

Deadline is 18:00 EST on the 20th.

[Sanxion]

My reason for voting you was misrepresentation, but when that is cleared up, you are less scummy than CSL again, so I returned my vote. (I had intended to do that earlier but...)

You didn't answer my questions.

I voted CSL, then you, then CSL. That isn't fickle.

You're also blind to not see how CSL enticed the town to let him live today. He said he'd respond on Day 3 and post then if her survived the night. that is the same as saying "Hey, I'll be better tomorrow if you let me live today. Promise."

That's scummy. (Albeit, I might be blind for not answering that question sooner, but meh. )

Also, I went "all quiet" because I went out of town yesterday. Weekends are the days to enjoy life an do something else.

Also, can we lynch CSL? He clearly doesn't care about this game, the case on him, or to play. He looks scummy and his means of just going quiet does nothing to say otherwise. Deadline is 2 days and 3 hours (I think)

[Ythan]

My only reservation about lynching CSL is that what appeared to be his fishing for masons may have been a mason's attempt to draw a mason fakeclaim for a lynch.

[Sanxion]

My only reservation about lynching CSL is that what appeared to be his fishing for masons may have been a mason's attempt to draw a mason fakeclaim for a lynch.

That seems like something scum would also do. But, I do see your point. Meh, I dunno. I think rolefishing that early (in any case) is more scummy than town.

[Miyu]

What would explain the rest of his behavior?
Jumping on Don.
He clearly has time to post elsewhere, save for here.

[Ythan]

As I said, my one reservation. I don't really know role-tells. I can't tell whether a player is acting like a particular role or not.

[ZeroFang]

I don't believe Don was advocating or suggesting that Lowell be lynched for being an easy target. I believe he simply said that Lowell was one. Furthermore, if he was advocating it - why wouldn't he switch his vote to Lowell; instead of keeping it on you?

He was suggesting that we keep him in the game so that we could get an easy lynch. He didn't switch his vote to Lowell because at the time he believed I was scum and Lowell was an easy lynch for later. The wording on that was weird, but that's what I was trying to get across.

@Zero. How are Chau and Xite carrying this game, and have 'made pretty substantial posts throughout'? Especially given that I believe Xite was on V/LA at least once, thinking twice.

If you look at Xite's ISO and her activity throughout the game, you'll see that nearly every post had content and was relevant to the topic at the time or relevant to scumhunting in general. She called many people out on scummy actions, and still has made a strong impact in this game despite a couple V/LAs.

cha-cha's done relatively the same. Mostly content posts, lots of them, a lot of scum-hunting, and has had a significant influence on the game because of it.

If you want to know why I said they're "carrying" this game, it's because they've made the most relavent, impacting posts. Not to discredit the rest of us, it's just that cha-cha and Xite have done the most.

Why do you think there are 'probably two' on the Don wagon?

Look at the way Don presented himself. He really, really looked scummy. The scum, knowing he was a VT, likely saw this as a perfect opportunity to get a lynch and a distraction to the town. Not everyone was against Don, so I'm pretty sure some scum had to vote him to get him lynched. I know some scum players purposefully don't hop on the main wagon to avoid being outted like this, so I'm factoring that in. All of the above in mind, I figure there were probably two scum on that wagon, and one scum that was gone at the time, lurking, or voting nobody/someone else to confuse us.

[Miyu]

He was suggesting that we keep him in the game so that we could get an easy lynch. He didn't switch his vote to Lowell because at the time he believed I was scum and Lowell was an easy lynch for later. The wording on that was weird, but that's what I was trying to get across.

I find this response scummy Zero, considering that Don already covered this same thing with you previously.

Here, for your ease:

You suggested we not replace Lowell because he'll be an easy lynch if he's scum.

no. i tried to explain to ythan that lowell being an "anti-town" player doesn't mean he needs to be replaced. the easy lowellscum lynch was a hypothetical example i posted to demonstrate one way that "anti-town" lowell would actually help us in this game.

Look at the way Don presented himself. He really, really looked scummy. The scum, knowing he was a VT, likely saw this as a perfect opportunity to get a lynch and a distraction to the town. Not everyone was against Don, so I'm pretty sure some scum had to vote him to get him lynched. I know some scum players purposefully don't hop on the main wagon to avoid being outted like this, so I'm factoring that in. All of the above in mind, I figure there were probably two scum on that wagon, and one scum that was gone at the time, lurking, or voting nobody/someone else to confuse us.

Zero. I did look at Don, when I read the thread upon entering the game. Don was only 'really scummy' because people misinterpreted what he was saying. You included.
How would the scum know he was Vanilla, given there are Masons in the game?

[Scott Brosius]

I'm replacing Xite. I'm not reading D1 besides a very very brief skim given the deadline, did anything of SIGNIFICANT importance happen D1 that I should know about?

[Ythan]

This isn't an 80 page game. Read it.

[TheButtonmen]

Scott Brosius replaces Xite91 effective two posts ago!

[CSL]

I'm replacing Xite. I'm not reading D1 besides a very very brief skim given the deadline, did anything of SIGNIFICANT importance happen D1 that I should know about?

I voted don without a reason. Really. It's fun. Look it up.

[Ythan]

I know something significant that will happen d2 if he doesn't read.

[Scott Brosius]

I find D1 to be unhelpful to come in cold D2 as a replacement especially given that no scum has flipped. So I briefly went over it, but I am not commenting on it. Scum, here's your cue to jump all over me.

AKnottedRope

Concerning that after my read, I have no posts to quote

chauchaudotcom-

328 reads like good town questioning. Also noting this bc Smash and Zero are hardcore lurking at this point. Town read.

349 Noticed what I noticed about Lowell's 346. Town read

CSL

273 reads like scum attempting to find potential masons. Also had a promised re-read a page before which never came to fruition.

Lowell

232 Specifically the WIFOM defense. This has happened in the past few games I have been in, people attempt to clear other players from being scum because there is no possible way they would act this scummy as scum. Some people are not good at this game. If they are scummy, they have a good chance of being scum. Possible Lowell-CSL connection here.

346 leaves the door open to vote his potential scum-buddy. More CSL-Lowell connections. Calls out chau for attempting to derail the wagon, but I don't see it and it's a weak vote. The first post I quote was more of a connection, this is a scum read.

Octupis

254 is the most town post I've read thus far. Town read.

Sanxion-

220 is bad and looks like gentle scum nudging to actually participate. Definite CSL connection. Also weird about only asking Ythan about the DJ flip.

341 is fluff. It gives one opinion on somebody (CSL who he is voting. Every other read is wishy-washy and non-committal. Scum read

356 reads exactly like Lowell's post in terms of CSL (doesn't want to vote him but will at deadline) I'm really liking the idea of a CSL-Lowell-Sanxion scum team after this.

387 For someone who wasn't sure about CSL one page ago, you have certainly changed your opinion especially with the "How can you not find him scummy?" comment.

miyu

Nothing to quote, but did just replace in.

Ythan

362 I feel like the only posts that have substance are defending yourself, or deflecting suspicion onto your attacker. However, as someone who usually makes posts on the brief side, I can sympathize with your defense.

ZeroFang

358 is pretty non-committal about everyone, but it's something.

376 This reads like frustrated town more than scum not trying to give an opinion. Town read


So after all that, I am thinking of a CSL-Sanxion-Lowell team. Given the added policy lynch that a CSL lynch solves, that is where my vote goes. I see my vote is already there, I am confirming it. Hopefully all my links are correct, if they aren't the number I wrote is what I'm referring to.

[Sanxion]

Sanxion-

220 is bad and looks like gentle scum nudging to actually participate. Definite CSL connection. Also weird about only asking Ythan about the DJ flip.

341 is fluff. It gives one opinion on somebody (CSL who he is voting. Every other read is wishy-washy and non-committal. Scum read

356 reads exactly like Lowell's post in terms of CSL (doesn't want to vote him but will at deadline) I'm really liking the idea of a CSL-Lowell-Sanxion scum team after this.

387 For someone who wasn't sure about CSL one page ago, you have certainly changed your opinion especially with the "How can you not find him scummy?" comment.

Hi, welcome to the game. Glad to see you've got an analysis, but I am almost wondering if you noted any posts between the ones I stated.

First: This is the third post of the day, how could anything I said be "gentle scum nudging to participate?" Would this not be too early to assume anyone wouldn't participate today? It seems like your guess is a bit of a stretch. In Post 220, I asked for CSL's reasoning for voting someone who is proven town (by death) on the previous day. As he lurked most of the day hardcore, there was very little reasoning (as far as I can tell) as to why he voted Don other than the "I read Don's Iso" post that CSL had (and I referenced in my next post). As mentioned in that post (here), I asked only Ythan for reasons stated but to be clearer (as I just realized I didn't mention) Ythan is the one who posted just before me and stuck out in my mind, but Rope did not since he would be momentarily V/LA. I don't see it as a mistake, but this is the reason why I asked only him.
Second: post 341 might be "fluf,f" but you should be a bit more fair and realize that very few people were posting at the time and most people look townie to me except lurkers. Oct might be in Chau's sights, but oct looks like he is participating and trying to scum hunt. Chau is scum hunting, xite was okay but then not posting and so on, and so fourth. I forgot Smash was even in this game, so I had very little ideas on who could be scum with CSL (my top suspect even in that post).

Third: 356...um...no...?
I like CSL for scum, but I want Smash to have a chance to post or to just POST. He voted CSL in his last post (which made me nervous about my vote. Could lurker scum be voting lurker town? I dunno right then. I wanted Smash to comment on the basis that if he is scum, maybe his reasons will be crappy. I haven't (yet) presented my thoughts on how I find him scum.

Fourth: 381 is the point where I answer chau's thoughts and re-vote CSL. I've wanted him for my lynch increasingly since he has refused (blatantly) to answer any points against him again and again. He is almost definitely scum, but I really am baffled at how you could connect me to him.

[Sanxion]

EBWOP:

Why do you think there are 'probably two' on the Don wagon?

Look at the way Don presented himself. He really, really looked scummy. The scum, knowing he was a VT, likely saw this as a perfect opportunity to get a lynch and a distraction to the town. Not everyone was against Don, so I'm pretty sure some scum had to vote him to get him lynched. I know some scum players purposefully don't hop on the main wagon to avoid being outted like this, so I'm factoring that in. All of the above in mind, I figure there were probably two scum on that wagon, and one scum that was gone at the time, lurking, or voting nobody/someone else to confuse us.

Not really sure if it's a tell of anything, but how would anyone know if someone who isn't scum is townie or a mason?

[chauchaudotcom]

Back from V/LA

Page 5, post 119 will be of interest to you.

The thing is robocopter still made an effort to make a case (which is what I meant by scum always trying to appear town by trying to at least feign a case). I need to go back and read CSL again.

Not really sure if it's a tell of anything, but how would anyone know if someone who isn't scum is townie or a mason?

It doesn't matter because he's not scum. Either way, don is town aligned so it would be a beneficial wagon for scum regardless of his role.

Bleh. Re-reading CSL makes me sad.

Mod: Is it five or six to lynch?

Six (50% + 1)

[Sanxion]

Page 5, post 119 will be of interest to you.

The thing is robocopter still made an effort to make a case (which is what I meant by scum always trying to appear town by trying to at least feign a case). I need to go back and read CSL again.

I don't understand what Don's post that AKR refers to has to do with robocoptor, who doesn't appear on the game list.

[chauchaudotcom]

AKR was referring to robo's post from a different game. Read with context.

[Octupis]

I'll comment on san's omgus outburst in a bit.

You haven't yet. Why not? Post 373.

As I said, my one reservation. I don't really know role-tells. I can't tell whether a player is acting like a particular role or not.

Have you considered that the same incident could well be interpreted as him trying to provoke one of the real masons to claim? I see your point about him maybe trying to instigate a mason fakeclaim but I think it is a bit far fetched.

In regards to CSL's possible lynch, I think it is a good idea. Although he hasn't been very active (which is a disadvantage in a way because it means there are very few connections we can make if he flips scum), the stint of activity that he did indulge us in, could potentally be quite telling. The masons are quite an important part of this game and from reading that page or so again, I somehow can't see him being a mason himself. Apart from that, there is the point that Sanxion raised about him asking to be kept on until Day 3, which I see as suspicious (because if he is scum it obviously helps him to keep a low profile today but it also heightens the chances of a town lynch). Lastly, his disregard for the game and his blatant unwillingness to post anything of merit (despite being around and reading the thread) leads me to think that he is scum.

Vote CSL

As far as I can tell, the deadline ends here at 1pm tomorrow afternoon. It is now 8pm, which gives us roughly about 17 hours left.

[chauchaudotcom]

You haven't yet. Why not? Post 373.

Ah, to be honest, I completely forgot. Reading back it doesn't give me much other then San being overly defensive and omgus. Just two more things to note in my book.

Have you considered that the same incident could well be interpreted as him trying to provoke one of the real masons to claim? I see your point about him maybe trying to instigate a mason fakeclaim but I think it is a bit far fetched.

Why would it be far fetched?