Open 230 - Bird 7 - Game Over

[AurorusVox]

@The Cirdua claim-question, I was going to ask the same thing as Robocopter, but I'll leave asking about it til Cirdua comes back. It looks a little fishy, but I'm going to temporarily suspend the potential for WIFOM and say that I doubt scum would be so brazen to ask for a claim straight out of the gate.

I've never played as scum on here, so I can't answer for how I act as scum on the forum, but I can either answer for how I generally played as scum on EpicMafia (which is so much shorter than games here (it's IM based) and it's more to do with specialist roles), or answer for how I think I would act as scum on here. I'll go for the latter, because EM scumplay would be quite different to MS scumplay --

I think that scum should interact with their partner just like they would with any other townie. So I'd try to agree with points that I agreed with, and FoS and vote them for reasons that I would normally vote or FoS them for, and generally try to make it look like we weren't partners. I guess it wouldn't be as easy as that in practice, though, so I can't tell you if that's how I would actually act :\

Myk, is there a reason that you singled Robocopter out for the question first before opening it up to everyone else?

[Robocopter87]

The best scum players forget they are scum and play like they would as town. But then kill someone during the night.

[mykonian]

I know epicmafia, I have played there quite some time (I started here though). The game there didn't suit me really, so you won't find me there anymore.

But your post, AV strikes me as odd. First you say you do have experience in playing mafia, and with the quick games of Epicmafia you must have been scum quite a few times. But then you switch to how you should play, not how you expect yourself to play.

I'd like that answer AV, it is quite simple. Are you the kind of person who interacts heavily with his/her partner (distancing or fake buddying), or are you trying to make sure we don't find out by not interacting a lot with your partner. It is a question of playstyles (and personality).

About your question. There is a reason, I was interested in Robo first, he is the player I know least about now. When I had finished the question, I liked it and I added your names.

[AurorusVox]

The reason I didn't go into my experience-as-scum on EM is because there, as scum or town, you spend far less time asking questions, so the relationship between scumpartners is one that you barely need to consider. I discounted it because I didn't think it would be relevant, but I'll go into detail for you.

For example, on a daystart D1, most people just vote "No lynch" immediately and wait for night actions. At least since I joined it, EM is more about the power roles - cops, watchers, trackers and so forth are included in almost every game - and so most questions are concerned with those claimed power roles, not townie on townie, townie on scum, scum on townie, or scum on scum. On EM, you have little need to bus your partners unless a clear PR has gotten a report on them, at which point its stupid to not bus them. If it ever comes to a bunch of regular townies discussing FoSes, and my partner is still alive, I'd FoS whoever I felt was justified to FoS, my partner or otherwise. But doing that in a twenty minute game is very different to doing it in a game where the first day alone can take three weeks, because there's not as much material to work with.

I also said that the play I described (interacting as though they were town) is what I would try to do, so I think saying that I didn't answer "how I expect myself to play" is unfair, because I quite clearly did answer that. Yes, I said that mafia "should" act that way in my opinion, but that just means that that is what I would aim to do, or in your words, what I would expect myself to do. I can't say for sure if I'd be able to do it effectively or not, because on the rare occasion that it comes down to it on EM, it works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't, and I've not yet had the chance to be scum on here. You don't want me to talk about what I think people "should" do, but I can't talk about what I have done, because I haven't done it yet.

[AurorusVox]

In case you missed the fact that I did answer your question:

Are you the kind of person who interacts heavily with his/her partner (distancing or fake buddying), or are you trying to make sure we don't find out by not interacting a lot with your partner. It is a question of playstyles (and personality).

I'd try to agree with points that I agreed with, and FoS and vote them for reasons that I would normally vote or FoS them for, and generally try to make it look like we weren't partners.

If it's still not clear enough, I

expect

that I'd interact with them as much as I needed to, so it'd be reliant on the partner. If they were scummy, I'd pick them up on it. If they weren't, then I'd have no need to.

[don_johnson]

The best scum players forget they are scum and play like they would as town. But then kill someone during the night.

trudat. this thread needs a reread...

[don_johnson]

reread complete. based on the "one scum on the day 1 townie wagon"

av- posts today seem "fluffy" like yesterday, but he talks too much to be scum.

robo- prolly town what with the vanilla claim under early pressure

dj- obvtown

myk- most likely scum.

off wagon:

cirdua- null read at this point, possible lurking scum. need some content.

1. myk
2. av
3. cirdua

yeah. that's my preference as of now. myk's iso on day 1 is rather poor.

[mykonian]

it didn't really help that you hammered on page 5. With 2 pages of pregame discussion. Can't really say that I was up to steam with my scumhunting yet. I'm quite surprised nobody has even talked about this. Both Robo and AV show little sings of scumhunting. Aurora, what did you think of DJ hammering, and what do you think about Cirdua staying off the wagon (while the whole town was practically on it).

Robo, did you know that with 4 players on a lynch, scum is most often on the third spot?

[AurorusVox]

I thought that DJ's hammering was quite scummy really, considering he had said he thought XS and I were engaging in a "town on town" argument (I was going to bring it up but I was responding to your questions first). He seemed to hammer because of something that XS said - "Hammer me, I dare you" - that was more to do with his personality. I don't think that playstyle, regardless of how irritating it was, should be the reason for a hammer vote. In fact, it looks to me like it could have been an opportunistic scum move. DJ, what changed between your "town vs town" argument, and your hammer vote?

About Cirdua - I think he's been V/LA for most of the day, so I don't want to read too much into his lack of XS vote. I definitely think that he will need to post a lot more in order to give us a read on him. I'd rather wait to see what he says when she comes back rather than judging him on his Day 1.

Mykonian, I feel you're misrepping again. I showed little signs of scumhunting? I scumhunted XS pretty hard (after your point about his assumption of mislynch) and asked a number of questions of Budja and Robocopter as well, and this is despite being V/LA for part of "yesterday." I find your misrepresentations interesting - I wonder if you're doing it on purpose, or if it's just some sort of clarity that's lacking in my posts?

[mykonian]

sorry, I was talking about today, Aurorus. I thought this was clear. Everybody should have said something about DJ, unless they had a good reason not to. My reason was that DJ was my best townread in the game. Yours it clearly wasn't so I have absolutely no idea why you didn't start with it directly. DJ gave the correct example how you should start a day: with scumhunting. (but damn, if you do it, don't count the amount of posts )

Aurorus, I have trouble following who you think scum. Would you mind posting your opinions about every player? (doesn't have to be too long, just so I know where you stand)

[AurorusVox]

I could have started with it directly but you had already beaten me to the first post of the day and started with something else so I wanted to deal with that before moving onto other things. If I'd just started about something else, I have a feeling that you'd have criticised me for avoiding answering the question (you accused me of this even when I did answer the question xD). Incidentally, you've talked about the hammer, but not said what you thought of it. Care to expand on your thoughts?

As for my reads;

-Unless DJ has a convincing reason for his hammer, I'd put him at #1 scummiest based on that (I've explained my thoughts on the hammer above). I was getting a neutral-to-townie vibe until he ended the day so abruptly.

-Unlike DJ, I don't see Robocopter's early claim as necessarily indicating a vanilla townie. He seemed blasé about being lynched, so I don't think he thought he was under that much pressure. The early claim can be a sign of scum, so I'd say I'm wary of him. He didn't really do that much yesterday, so I'm uncomfortable with him and would put him at #2 due to my read on you and my lack of read on Ciruda. But this is more of a speculative suspicion than anything really solid as of yet.

-I like your scumhunting posts, I don't like your misrepresentations, but it looks like this last one was a misunderstanding on my part, so I'll let that issue slide. You didn't really do much yesterday either, but you've started quite aggressively today with lots of questions (which I like and think gets you townie points). On the other hand, you could have already planned your aggressiveness last night and coordinated with a scum partner (but I don't think that's what's happened). You're my strongest town-read out of everyone, because you've been the most pro-active in scumhunting.

-I have a neutral read on Cirdua because he's not posted much to judge him by. I think even just plain lurking is a null-tell, because townies do it just as much as scum in my experience, but that could be more common in Newbie games where most of my games on-site have been.

-I have a townie-read on AurorusVox.

[mykonian]

misreps happen to me. My written english isn't the best, although I usually understand as good as my language when I have to read it. Don't worry too much about it. Neither will I when I think you haven't understood me properly (so I wasn't accusing you, I just thought you hadn't understood my question the way I intended)

Anyway, what I thought of the hammer. It is very town-DJ and absolutely not Scum-DJ. DJ his meta is quite different for both cases and he would absolutely never have done it this way as scum. It was a fast hammer, but clearly one he believed in. (as a support of this statement, DJ and I have played a few games together, one as scumpartners.) This leads me to believe DJ must be town.

[Robocopter87]

Alright, few things with my name on them. Addressing them now...

About your question. There is a reason, I was interested in Robo first, he is the player I know least about now. When I had finished the question, I liked it and I added your names.

Though I know you never did call me scum, but just because you don't know me does not mean I am scum.

robo- prolly town what with the vanilla claim under early pressure

Under pressure? I think I was a little to "Don't care" when that was going on. I wouldn't have minded being lynched. But I don't think that I should just, Give up and Die because that would be one less Town. Might as well kill scum if we are going to be quicklynching. Xscorp looked like scum.

myk- most likely scum.

Am not liking this. You have no reasoning. Stop trying to act cool and play a little more seriously.

Robo, did you know that with 4 players on a lynch, scum is most often on the third spot?

Do know this... Oooooooo. Well. This makes me look bad lolz. You really going to use this as a case? Hope not.

dj- obvtown

Totally unnecessary.

Anyway, what I thought of the hammer. It is very town-DJ and absolutely not Scum-DJ. DJ his meta is quite different for both cases and he would absolutely never have done it this way as scum. It was a fast hammer, but clearly one he believed in. (as a support of this statement, DJ and I have played a few games together, one as scumpartners.) This leads me to believe DJ must be town.

I do not subscribe to Meta. I want reads, and happenings from this game. And this game only. Meta is a horrible reason to put a read on someone.

[don_johnson]

You have no reasoning. Stop trying to act cool and play a little more seriously.

maybe you're not getting me here. from my pov there are 2 scum in cirdua/myk/av. the goal is to find which of the three is most likely scum as today is lylo. the thread is 6 pages long. on reread, myk stands out as scummiest. not sure how to build a "case" if thats what you want when the posting has been so minimal. what is becoming more apparent to me, however, is that i don't think myk and av are scum together which means that cirdua is just about 100% scum. so let's wait and hear what he has to say. if you have any specific questions for me, fire away.

[Robocopter87]

Why is myk scummiest, can you tell me that?

Because of a lack of answer to this question I don't like the way your acting. Because you have no reason but are throwing suspicion on someone.

[don_johnson]

why don't you reread the thread? let me put it this way:

of the three players in question myk's play on day one most resembles the strategy and style of scum.

try reading the thread again and telling us what you think.

we're waiting on cirdua here, but as i have mentioned, i am beginning to think cirdua is the lynch for today. i think a mykonian/av scum team is a reach.

[AurorusVox]

If Mykonian is so scummy, what do you make of his defence of you? He's been pretty vocal about how "townie" you are. Would you lynch Mykonian over Cirdua?

[Robocopter87]

I just reread the whole thread.

My conclusion. Don is scummy.

[AurorusVox]

I don't like the way your acting. Because you have no reason but are throwing suspicion on someone.

I just reread the whole thread.

My conclusion. Don is scummy.

Were you trying to be funny with the way you worded that or have you just done something that you accused someone else of doing? :\

[don_johnson]

If Mykonian is so scummy, what do you make of his defence of you? He's been pretty vocal about how "townie" you are.

its called "buddying". if myk is scum, then he knows i'm town and is going to play to that effect to garner my support. its mafia 101.

Would you lynch Mykonian over Cirdua?

at this point, no. the more i think about this the less i see av/myk as a possibiility.

Were you trying to be funny with the way you worded that or have you just done something that you accused someone else of doing? :\

this makes me chuckle.

robo: if both scum are hiding in av/myk/cirdua, who of those three do you think is town?

[Robocopter87]

I was actually doing both to tell you the truth but I was going to give reasons after I posted it. Which are here,

Don, in the beginning, during Xscorp, Robo and Don fight,

I realized he kinda totally overreacted to my statement. I said a simple, " You guys are bad at discussion" and he was on me in an instant. As was Xscorp. My reply, which actually wasn't a bad defense, was not even talked about by Don but rather just an Unvote and a vote on me. No reasons. Then Budja votes me with no reason and then he was called out on it, while Don was not. From then on, Don was gone. No posts. Till,
he finally posts, he just says, looks like a whole lot of nothing atm. In the same post he addressed something of mine, his first reason to vote me which came two pages

after

his vote.

Then, after fighting with Xscorp, then buddying with Xscorp, he finally quickhammered Xscorp.

So all in all. Don couldn't make up his mind day one. Hasn't post a single reason for anything. And has quickhammered.

Scummy enough for a vote.

I am going to vote, really really soon. But waiting on other peoples opinions and Cirdua.

[Robocopter87]

^^ to aurous, joking or hypocrtical question

[don_johnson]

you are about as bright as the inside of a brick shithouse.

i'm the cop. i investigated you.

now please pay attention and use this as a learning experience. a town on town vote ends the game. please answer my question, because at this point in time i think cirdua is the most likely to be scum of the 3 players in question.

[Robocopter87]

I'm not blind, you did a horrible Cop job.

Alright, I am in a state of, " Darn, what now?"

But I will answer the question.

I would have to say Cirdua because Aurorus and Myk ring town to me.

[don_johnson]

actually i think i did a good job. but whatever. what we need to do is figure out who cirdua's partner is. i was hoping to not have claimed this early. at this point, his contribution is going to be tainted with wifom. either way, i do not see a myk/av scumteam at all.

vote: cirdua

let the chips begin to fall, i'm off to bed.