Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Ythan]

Idiots. Don't worry about millar today okay? Someone else.

[Rhinox]

I don't think xite was calling millar an asset, but I'll let Xite take it from there and clarify what she was talking about so as not to answer for her.

I'll respond to more later, just wanted to say that before leaving work.

[Magua]

Scum
----
Charlie - #784. Pushing for a policy lynch D1 is fine. Pushing for one D2 when there are better suspects is not fine, and the lack of surrounding content, makes Charlie my #1 pick for scum today.

CSL - #793. Especially given that it's CSL, the idea of CSL being pro-policy lynch is quite ironic. Diacria was also voting CSL, and got shot in preference to an inventor.

RichardGHP - #777 is just like a huge sign that says "Lynch me!" It's even had neon lights and whatnot added onto it in case you otherwise would've missed it. #794 doesn't bother to try to give any other reasoning.

Town
----
SSBF - In a sea of uncaring, I find SSBF to be a refreshing change of pace, and I agree with 98% of what he's said so far. The only parts that I don't like are the push on millar13 as a policy lynch, and Xite-as-scum.

Twomz - Solid reads, good thought. Not sure about the inventor claim being legit, especially so early, but Ythan's confirmation is pretty persuasive.

Xite - This isn't as cut-and-dried as Twomz and SSBF, but Xite seems to be avoiding going for easy targets (unlike, eg, Charlie + CSL), and is backing up his points well.

Neutral
-------
millar13 - Should be vigged. I believe the BP claim at this point -- it's an odd claim for a mafia to make with the strong likelihood that there is a vigilante around. I strongly disagree that millar13 should be lynched as part of a "policy lynch". Being lynched for acting scummy is one thing; policy lynching gives us pretty much no information one way or the other.

Ythan - On the fence. The whole Animorph/Ythan exchange rings oddly for me. There's a lot of small posts with a little content in them on pgs 30-31, but then on pg 32 when things start happening they get very empty, with very cagey responses to things like Richard's OMGUS post.

Useless
-------
Chronopie
EGL
Locke Lamora

BTW, in this:

2) So, you'll risk town's biggest asset for a policy lynch?

Xite is calling "the day" town's biggest asset, not millar13. To which he's right. Lynching a BP claim is risky, going for a BP lynch for policy reasons is stupid.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

CSL (3) - Super Smash Bros. Fan, Twomz
millar13 (2) - Charlie, CSL
RichardGHP (2) - Xite91, animorpherv1
Chronopie (1) - rhinox
EGL (1) - nachomamma8
Xite91 (1) - RichardGHP

Not Voting (13) - Jahudo, EGL, Magua, Amished, Ythan, Locke Lamora, kmd4390, holycon, pittbunny, raider8169, chronopie, millar13

[Magua]

Oh, I forgot: VOTE: Charlie

[Pittbunny]

Vote CSL

For Magua's Inventor-Diacria analysis, and for following Charlie on a policy lynch instead of at the very least reaffirming what's been making millar seem so scummy.

[Amished]

Vote: Chronopie

Best chance for scum today I believe.

Richard, I thought you were going to try a new playstyle? You're still being useless; who's scum?

Why are there so many town lists going around, anyways? People, stop it.

CSL is still a good second choice though; sometimes I wish I had an unlimited day-vig...

[Magua]

Why are there so many town lists going around, anyways? People, stop it.

Why?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why are there so many town lists going around, anyways? People, stop it.

Right now, I can only recall me and Magua making town lists. That's just two out of twenty-one people, it shouldn't really hurt town that much. Also, saying who you think are townies is a good form of PoE as it helps narrow down so we more likely achieve a scum lynch.

[Xite91]

K, still reading, will add more after, but you guys are misreading me and I need to let you guys understand

@SSBF

2) I meant the day, not millar, I couldn't care less if millar gets killed, but I'd prefer to

keep

the day
3) Uhm, even the least town-like townies can help find scum, your point seems invalid

[Xite91]

Alright, a lot less on the last page than I suspected.

First thing, about richard, I meant he's been omgusing and not even trying with this game (saying he's just useless too) everyone's talking about policy, so why the hell is he not the top candidate?

I am currently ISOing each and every player, with a scum list to come afterward. I'll leave it up to you guys how you want the cases, so here's my questions for your convenience;

1) Do you want a case on everyone I can make a case on?
a) If not, what would be the number of people (tops on my scum list) you would like to see a case on?
**Disclaimer: Cases will be from top of Llama's player list to bottom with a note (or post depending) afterward of scummiest players I made a case on from most to least**
2) What kind of case would you prefer? Point-by point, basic post by post or just a summarization?
3) Would you like it to be all one mass post, or a single post per player?

[EGL]

1) Make a case on the people YOU feel should be lynched today. You decide the number because it's the people you think are lynchworthy.
2) Point-by-point and incorporate quotes if you can. ISO numbers will suffice though if the quotes are too much.
3) One mass post is probably best.

[Amished]

Why are there so many town lists going around, anyways? People, stop it.

Right now, I can only recall me and Magua making town lists. That's just two out of twenty-one people, it shouldn't really hurt town that much. Also, saying who you think are townies is a good form of PoE as it helps narrow down so we more likely achieve a scum lynch.

This is also directed at Magua:

What are the point of town lists? Really, what gains from it? If one of your town reads starts to get rung up; then speak up and say why you think they're town. Otherwise you're giving scum information. Who really benefits from giving out your town list? Does the town? Not really. Does the scum? Yes. For two reasons: they can mimic any/all townies to fool you (that they know/suspect are townies); or realize that you're not a threat if you're wrong about them. This keeps townies that are essentially wrong or able to be fooled around longer which is a major detriment.

Also; since I hate walls, I just skimmed a bit and saw this:

I believe that out of everyone in the bandwagon, I think Amished, Magua, and kmd4390 are the most likely townies, due to the amount of contributations they've made and how

they helped find scums

.

concerning the bolded: do you know something that we don't? A miller is town aligned. There have been no scum found.

FoS: SSBF

Solely because town reads for illogical reasons only really comes from scum since they know who townies are. If Chrono wasn't scum; I'd vote you right here and right now.

[Jahudo]

Charlie case:

Everyone should at least read raider8169 in ISO and judge from there.

VOTE: raider8169

This post bothers me because he’s pushing other people into a wagon without explaining any reason for it, and he’s not committing to a case so it doesn’t look like scumhunting at all. Just sitting on a vote so the pressure it off to look for new things to talk about.

Which he takes advantage of because his next posts are not questioning raider, or explaining the vote, but just non-content fluff posting:

You don't get to dictate these sort of things, you know.

I acknowledge the happenings in this thread, and feel that I have nothing to respond to at the moment. Carry on, good people!

Hey millar13, why did you get an avatar? Aren't they useless things to you?

If he has some method of keeping scumtells to himself that’s worked for him in the past, that’s great for him but it looks like he’s using it for opportunistic purposes and not forming a read on raider.

Can you explain this post?

Right now I would be ok with lynching Twomz or RichardGHP. That or any of the slots that have yet to do anything in this game.

What about CSL?

Would your opinion of him change depending on his answer?

[Jahudo]

Chronopie case:

His only contribution to this game has been explaining how a beloved princess was in the first game’s OP but not this one. It was part of three back-to-back posts about setup speculation which I think is something scum might use to avoid giving away opinions about people.

It’s also a possible way out of scumhunting while making yourself look a little less lurky, which Chronopie has a problem with.

So Rhinox attacks the case on Richard, then votes for a (near) lurker...

Defending a buddy and trying to divert attention?

VOTE: RichardGHP

FoS: Rhinox

I don’t understand this thought process. He seems to have more suspicion on Rhinox for his actions on the Richard case, but Chronopie instead votes Richard.

@Chronopie: Did you just realize in that post that you liked the existing Richard wagon best? What about Rhinox’s actions looked out of line? I don’t see how this doesn’t apply in other situations where a player has said they don’t like a particular wagon and then provide an alternative.

===============================

I could vote for either at this time but if Charlie and/or Chronopie are around to talk then I'll just hold off and try and get a better understanding of their suspicions.

[Xite91]

09 Jahudo

Chevre easjo682

I'm confused, who did Jahudo replace then?

[Jahudo]

I replaced Chevre during night.

[Charlie]

I know when to admit that I'm wrong.
UNVOTE: millar13

CSL it is.
VOTE: CSL

I like that case against me. I'd believe it, but to to circumstances of me being me, I unfortunately don't. The case is more correct than wrong.

[Nachomamma8]

Why EGL is scum for Dummies:

1) The Shattered Viewpoint Vote:
EGL votes SV for an RVS reason, then, when the wagon starts to grow, heavily lurks until the lynch.

2) Reaction to my announced suspicion:
Notice how EGL attempts his first bit of scumhunting AFTER I call him out, and notice what a horrible attempt at scumhunting it is.

3) More Concerned with Town Reads than Scum Reads:
His reaction to Diacria's town list reads to me like scum trying to cast doubt on Diacria's mind about his town reads. Also, it's just scummy when someone spends just as much time asking someone about town reads as they do about scum reads,

There! It's as easy as one, two, three! And I can add lots of words for those who won't believe the case until it takes up their entire screeen, and I probably will if I don't see lots of votes on EGL tomorrow. So voting for EGL not only furthers the townie wincon, but it also saves screenspace!

Amsih, explain your vote? Also, your view on town lists is too paranoid. I mean, how hard is it for scum to figure out who you think is town unless you constantly tunnel?

Jahudo, do you have any suspicions that aren't so... obvious/opportunistic?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

1) Do you want a case on everyone I can make a case on?

Focus on people who you think are the scums and can make a decent case on.

2) What kind of case would you prefer? Point-by point, basic post by post or just a summarization?

Do a point-by-point analysis of things you consider scummy. Quotes and links are highly recommended.

3) Would you like it to be all one mass post, or a single post per player?

One mass post. It might be ultra-large, but you'll be less likely to forget cases on all of your suspects this way and we get more information overall.

Looking forward to your big post.

---

I could vote for either at this time but if Charlie and/or Chronopie are around to talk then I'll just hold off and try and get a better understanding of their suspicions.

We have plenty of time to push their lynches ToDay, so there is no need to refrain from voting if you think they're scums.

Oh, I disagree with Rhinox.

I'd prefer more policy lynches.

VOTE: millar13

This

VOTE: millar13

I don't like millar13's play either, but now is not the time for policy lynching people. We have bigger fishes to fry now and we need to be focused on them ToDay instead of focusing to get rid of an anti-townie.

---

Magua's and Jahudo's case on Charlie are pretty good, enough for me to look Charlie over. ISOing Charlie, he is the best choice for the lynch ToDay. Too Long, Didn't Read Version is at the bottom of this case.

ISO Charlie from this game me and Charlie were in. If you read it, you'll notice that he was far more pro-town in that game and contributed a lot more to the game. He also took stances and tried to look for suspects. Most importantly, he was town.

Now let's take a look at Charlie's ISO in this game. Uh oh, he just did a 180 on his play style. Compared to the game I linked to, he puts a lot less effort into playing the game. Instead of helping the town, he make numerous RVS-like posts during the stages when we are suppose to actively finding scums. This is enough to put him on my scum list. But wait, there's more! Let's look at his ISO for his other scum tells:

I acknowledge the happenings in this thread, and feel that I have nothing to respond to at the moment. Carry on, good people!

Hate this post. Since he acknowledge the thread, you'd think he would give us something good to work on. But no, he goes on to say that he has nothing to add. Then why say anything if you have nothing to have? Is he admitting to active lurking? If you aren't willing to particapate in this game, replace out. Don't expect people to do your work for you.

ISO: 27 is also very scummy. First off, this is definitive hypocrisy where he calls out millar13 for not doing anything, yet despite accumlating a relatively large amount of posts, he has done little to move forward the game, let alone help town. Secondly, he wanted more votes on raider8169. Yet he had put forth little effort toward trying to get raider8169 lynched.

holycon, by any chance are you familiar with someone who goes by the name of razorback, here in MS?

What is the purpose of this post? razorback's meta is considerably different from everyone else except millar13, so I can't see decent compairison happening outside of that one exception, and even then, he was responding directly to holycon, not millar13. Why he asked this, I'd like to know.

No, seriously, you're scummier than Richard. He made a few boo-boos, but I'll pass that up D1.

At long last, he is actually serious about his suspicion, which is good. But he doesn't explain why he suspected raider8169 either, which is bad. Unfortunently, he goes stright back to lynching people because they were anti-townie, not scummy here:

SV! Well, that would be policy lynching. Sound good to me!

UNVOTE: raider8169
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

Instead of actually giving reasons why he thought Shattered Viewpoint was scummy or at least kept his vote on raider8169, he said he's voting Shattered Viewpoint as a policy lynch. Yes, voted Shattered Viewpoint based off anti-townie reasons, not

scummy

reasons. This is very scummy.

ISO: 39 was pretty horrible as well. I dislike that he bandwagoned CSL for absolutely no reason. He expressed no previous suspicion on CSL either. By then, Jahudo's case on Charlie was formed, but he puts no effort into defending himself. Litterally none.

Too Long, Didn't Read Versions:
- Charlie is horribly scummy.
- I agree with Magua's and Jahudo's case on him.
- Last Will Mafia II's play conflicts with his town meta in Newbie Mafia 934.
- Without any doubt he active lurks in this game.
- Shows lack of willingness to participate in the game.
- Guilty of hypocrisy.
- Asks useless questions.
- Doesn't explain suspicion.
- Vote on Shattered Viewpoint was a policy lynch vote, not a vote because he thought he was scum.
- Lacks explanation for his bandwagoning on CSL.
- Doesn't defend himself when points are brought up against him.

Remember when I said there were scums on Shattered Viewpoints bandwagon? He's the most likely.

Unvote, Vote: Charlie

HoS: CSL

[Nachomamma8]

^This is one of those people I told you about who needs cases that stretch the screen in order to be convinced.

[EGL]

@ Nacho, I'm pretty sure there are better lynches than me today.

1) I was playing another large game with BM and balancing work, so I managed to get myself incredibly lost in this game. I know we all have lives and such, but I'm pretty sure if you were in a game with BM you'd pay more attention to that, too. Also, Dana, SSBF, Richard, and Chevre were in it, which added to my confusion.

2 and 3) I done told you people before I get suspicious of people with mile long town lists, especially on D1, because it seems like they're buddying/know who is and is not scum. The same applied to my questioning KMD about his page 1 town reads. HTF does someone know on page 1 who is town? It's not my fault if you disagree and think that's perfectly normal.

So 2 and 3 are not valid.

[EGL]

Also I believe my first post of the day was we're not lynching Millar today. And I'm pretty sure that you didn't "call me out on anything" until just now. Just you voted for me and said there would be an explanation to come.

[EGL]

@SSBF, I don't care for meta-gaming. I'll review the rest of your case, though.

[Charlie]

An interesting case on me there, SSBF. After reading it, I become more convinced that I'm town.

Nachomamma8's case on EGL is goodposting.