Mini 967 - Mafia War (Over)

[Empking]

There are probably two scum left, both from a group that haven't lost somebody yet. I'm going to reread.

[FakeGod]

Bahhhyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Go Town!

[Hrezs]

Ok, with 5 alive and 2 probably scum, I think we should mass claim

[Empking]

Yeah, definitely.

[Hrezs]

ok well I'm a VT
and I'm 90% sure you're town

[SpyreX]

Yes without doubt its massclaim time.

Hrezs you started it popcorn the next one.

While you're at it I'd REALLY like an explanation of that late day madness. Deadjoker getting killed AND being scum with sound surprises me and makes me think you're more town than not but the FakeGod kill doesn't make any sense either sooo

[Hrezs]

FakeGod being town confused me, because I was so sure A_C was scum.
Spyre you can do next.
Also I think we should just lynch exemption today after the claims, I don't remember the last time he even posted.

[SpyreX]

I'm VT.

Exemption might work but I want Emp next.

[Empking]

I'm The Detective. A JOAT with Watcher, Cop, Tracker and hider abilities. I'd prefer to ewait before claiming further.

Exemption first.

[Snow_Bunny]

Blackberry replaces horrorude. Welcome Blackberry!

[Blackberry]

Confirming. I'm going to read up first.

[Blackberry]

Quick update: going to bed now, have to get up early. I have a few thoughts and ideas. I'm keeping my suspects open until I've read the entire thread. I was going to say something, but to keep it simple: I want to hear Exemption's claim.

[Snow_Bunny]

Bah, I guess I'll have to replace Exemption as well... Bah. Never seen a mini game with so many replacements... T_T

[Blackberry]

I am really eager to throw my input out there, but I am going to be smart and wait for Exemption's claim.

[Snow_Bunny]

CSL replaces Exemption. Welcome to the game!

[Hrezs]

CSL, claim before catching up, thanks.

[CSL]

VT.

Blackberry, you're next.

[Empking]

DPM

[Blackberry]

((What does DPM mean? O_o))

I am a Townie Doctor.

Looking at the roles that turned up (The first Mafia having a Godfather and a Doctor) got me thinking. Had Exemption claimed Cop I would have believed that both him and EmpKing were both COPS, but that one was the mafia's cop (A set-up with two mafias, one with a cop and one with a doctor has been a set-up I had considered using for my own game back in the day, I do not know if I have seen it used before, although I'm sure it has been). However, because EmpKing has claimed Cop and no one else has, I now trust EmpKing (I'll get to this in a second), although I still believe one of the other three of you is a mafia cop.

The first Mafia consisted of a Godfather and a Doctor. Godfather typically has one or both of two abilities - come up innocent to mafia and/or be protected from nightkills. If that team already had a Doctor on it, there is no sense in the Godfather being night immune when the Godfather is the only person the doctor could protect. Therefore the Godfather role must be there to protect from Cop investigations.

To me, a setup with one mafia w/ a cop, one mafia w/ a doctor, and just a doctor doesn't make sense (I obviously know what my role is, although I understand it's not necessairly the same way you all see things). A setup with a mafia w/ a cop, mafia w/ a doctor, a town cop and town doctor makes more sense to me. Thus why I am leaning towards certainty (not 100% granted, but I have no reason to question it) that EmpKing is telling the truth.

EmpKing

- have you used your role on me on any nights by any chance? /-what information have you gathered?

Also, lastly, I will admit I haven't finished reading the thread yet. I got to Page 10. Seeing that we were waiting for Exemption anyways, I decided to hold off on finishing my read through. I will finish my read-through today. I have some small things to do, I shall return later/throughout the day hopefully.

[SpyreX]

What?

You think there's a scum cop because there's a godfather?

And you claimed doctor in a multi-ball setup and didn't claim your targets?

Woooooo nelly we might have a live one here.

[CSL]

Going to start my re-read.

[Blackberry]

You think there's a scum cop because there's a godfather?

That is not what I said. I said I think there is a real cop because there is a Godfather. The fact that EmpKing was the only one to admit to being cop makes me think he is the real townie cop.

I said my reasoning for thinking there is a scum cop is because I had thought up a setup before with two mafias, one having a cop and one having a doctor. If you are town, I would appreciate you taking your time and reading things more carefully.

And you claimed doctor in a multi-ball setup and didn't claim your targets?

I am not sure what multi-ball means. If you are referring to the fact that I did not claim my targets at this time it is because I want to test EmpKing to see if he knows anything. If you are referring to the idea that people I've targeted are more likely to be clear because two nights only 1 person died, that is cancelled out by the fact there was a mafia doctor, there were two mafias potentially firing at eachother, and that there was a Godfather (and presumably another one).

[SpyreX]

That is not what I said. I said I think there is a real cop because there is a Godfather. The fact that EmpKing was the only one to admit to being cop makes me think he is the real townie cop.

I said my reasoning for thinking there is a scum cop is because I had thought up a setup before with two mafias, one having a cop and one having a doctor. If you are town, I would appreciate you taking your time and reading things more carefully.

Yea, I'm real bad at reading its hard.

Actually, what you said:

Had Exemption claimed Cop I would have believed that both him and EmpKing were both COPS, but that one was the mafia's cop (A set-up with two mafias, one with a cop and one with a doctor has been a set-up I had considered using for my own game back in the day, I do not know if I have seen it used before, although I'm sure it has been).

To me, a setup with one mafia w/ a cop, one mafia w/ a doctor, and just a doctor doesn't make sense (I obviously know what my role is, although I understand it's not necessairly the same way you all see things). A setup with a mafia w/ a cop, mafia w/ a doctor, a town cop and town doctor makes more sense to me. Thus why I am leaning towards certainty (not 100% granted, but I have no reason to question it) that EmpKing is telling the truth.

Which implies that one of the mafia teams had a role that could find 1 and only 1 mafia. Versus the very useful doctor in a multi-scum setup. Instead of, ya know, the far more likely manipulative effects (Jailer, RB, Redirector) that I would bet on.

Further, this was all predicated on Exemption claiming cop. And you said nothing about what changes in this with him not claiming it. That's irritation uno.

So, this side of the argument is: Empking's a JOAT because there is a godfather.

Which, maybe, MAYBE I could buy but that bevy of tricks with what we've seen even assuming a double-PR scumteam that claimed vanilla doesn't mesh right.

So, lets look at that a bit more:

The setup claimed under the assumption flavor isn't lying and balance is actually achievable:

Scum A:
Godfather
Doctor

Scum B:
? (Manipulator)
? (Manipulator / Goon / Godfather MAYBE).

Town:
JOAT (Cop / Track / Watch / Hide)
Doc
VT x 6

The JOAT I can buyish. The Doc makes me a little more itchy (the only PR it can protect is the only one apparently in the game). Which, honestly, with a flipped scum doc makes it more of a liability in protecting crosskills than actually helping BUT horror was oozing town so. However, I've been wrong in the past and THIS:

I am not sure what multi-ball means. If you are referring to the fact that I did not claim my targets at this time it is because I want to test EmpKing to see if he knows anything. If you are referring to the idea that people I've targeted are more likely to be clear because two nights only 1 person died, that is cancelled out by the fact there was a mafia doctor, there were two mafias potentially firing at eachother, and that there was a Godfather (and presumably another one).

Needs to be cleared up. Now.

You've said you think Empking is town because of his claim. Further, you've all but implied that at least one of your protects are still alive. So, lets look at that side of it:

Me=Weird, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 1.
Unsight, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 1.
Katsuki, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 2.
Stef, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 2.
Soundwish, Mafia Godfather from the Benedetti family, has been lynched D3.
Deadjoker, Mafia Doctor from the Benedetti family, killed Night 3.
FakeGod Amish_Charney, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 3.

N3 is easy enough to map out (Scum A killed FakeGod / Scum B killed Deadjoker).
N1 AND N2 only had one kill.

N1 and N2 are where it gets interesting. Under the assumption that scum aren't going to bash themselves against a perceived wall the blocked kill hit different targets. Which means UNLESS Scum B attempted to hit Scum A and the Scum Doc protect right both nights (which would, of course, require the ability to self protect which is one of the many things you could shed light on) IF one of your targets is alive there's a decent chance barring mirror-scum* that we win.

And holding this to "confirm" Empking makes my teeth itch.

*If its mirror-scum I'm calling bastard setup with no town power roles right now. Which I doubt. Hence I doubt this.

But, since I've laid this all out Emp can finish up then you can cough it up and make it simple because yea I can't read afterall.

[Blackberry]

I'm not really sure what you're saying about if one of my targets is still alive - even if I did protect right, why can't it be that I protected a MAFIA from the other mafia's kill?

One of my save targets WAS mafia. One of my targets is still alive.

And holding this to "confirm" Empking makes my teeth itch.

You realize Empking could be faking it, if he does claim watcher/tracker on me and tries to fake his information, that will prove him as a liar. However, his previous posts suggest to me that he may have some sort of info, whether it be a cop investigation, or watcher or tracker thing.

...

SpyreX, what is the point of a Godfather if there isn't a cop of any sort and the Godfather's partner only ability is to protect the Godfather?

[SpyreX]

Whats the point of a Godfather if the parallel is a other-side mafia that can find 1 scum? and a one shot cop?

You COULD have protected mafia from a kill but even that information makes more sense than not.

And, like I said, I'll acquiesce until empking comes in before I push for the rest.