Open 230 - Bird 7 - Game Over


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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:41 pm

Post by Robocopter87 »

@Mod: If I may suggest, it might be a good idea to put vote counts at the beginning of each day so people can see how many people are living and to see how much to lynch. Thanks!


If I am correct, it takes 3 to lynch. So if no one quickhammers Cirdua, he should be scum. I'm just going to wait a bit to see how this plays out.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:47 pm

Post by AurorusVox »

Waaaa -- I was so slow to post my response that there's been a cop-claim since I started posting it :( Now I get why you cleared Robocopter so off-handedly. If you're telling the truth, then we've got our Ciruda/Mykonian scumteam. I'll wait to see what they say before doing anything else as well.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:48 pm

Post by mykonian »

AurorusVox wrote:Waaaa -- I was so slow to post my response that there's been a cop-claim since I started posting it :( Now I get why you cleared Robocopter so off-handedly. If you're telling the truth, then we've got our Ciruda/Mykonian scumteam. I'll wait to see what they say before doing anything else as well.
Aurorus, you are explaining why Don is the cop. Brilliant. Don sets up his claim, you as his partner link it to his previous play.

@Don: you are such a fool. You don't get it yet, but you had the game in your hands with me thinking you were town. I was completely set on a Aurorus-Cirdua scumteam after the rather odd extension of the night (I thought Cirdua was the cause, and because he couldn't be the Doc, I tried to force him into a fakeclaim). I got a guilty on Aurorus and I tunneled on Cirdua-Aurorus. When Cirdua claimed vanilla I would have accused him this way, claimed my guilty on Aurorus and set up both lynches. Don, you would have won in Lylo.

But here you make a mess of it, thanks to your nervous reaction to a little pressure (Really, with me and aurorus on your side, you couldn't get lynched, so why do this?). You make the game clear to me, giving me my second "guilty".
to clarify for everybody who hasn't understood yet, I am the cop and I investigated Aurorus and found him scum
.

Now this is a 50-50 game. Robo is confirmed town, and the scumteam is either Don-aurorus or Myk-cirdua. So from now on I won't bother with aurorus and Don, Robo is my man :)

vote Don Johnson, HoS AV


Explanation of my actions:
After day 1, I had townreads on Budja, Don and myself. With 3 players left, I hoped to investigate someone as town, incriminating both others and possibly setting up a town voting block. Both Cirdua and Robo weren't that great that day, so I tried Aurorus.

With the night taking longer and the only reason I could think of being Cirdua being important at night and the mod a horrible person for showing that, my plan became to force him into a claim. Either he would be scum and fakeclaim, or he would be a town powerrole and scum could have figured the same out anyway. Claiming couldn't hurt the town. With the doc dying that night, I was sure Cirdua would be scum and would claim Cop, which would be a lot of fun.

During that time, I read through Aurorus, trying to find if there were links with Cirdua. There were. Aurorus voted Cirdua as RV, never attacked him again and even quite obviously defended cirdua or said that it wasn't that bad with him. Aurorus his history showed only 3 newby games, so I underestimated him :( He set the defending of Cirdua up and fooled me completely.

But I didn't know that on that moment and I tried to put Aurorus into trouble by asking him how he would interact with his partner. Telling the truth would be troublesome for scum (we might find his partner that way), but on the other hand, if AV lied, we might find out too, so I expected something from that. Aurorus avoided the question mostly, talked about how he should play and how he wanted to play. It didn't matter to me, I thought I already had my scumteam, but I wanted a grand "I knew it all along" party when I claimed, with evidence that would be so clear that the game was over.


If you have any questions, Robo, please ask.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:45 am

Post by AurorusVox »

^Surprise, surprise, the obligatory counter-claim with fake report.

I wasn't defending his claim, I was saying that if he'd been the cop, the operative word being "if". Since I'd seen him as scummy since yesterday, I was ready to doubt his claim if only you'd had a guilty report on someone else, scum. If you'd had a guilty report on Robocopter, for example, I'd have been convinced that
you
were the real cop (but he would have then been in my position and known that you were scum). But you've obviously gone for the fake report to save your scumbuddy Ciruda.

So now I'll ask the cop, do you still want to lynch Ciruda over Mykonian?
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:56 am

Post by mykonian »

AurorusVox wrote:^Surprise, surprise, the obligatory counter-claim with fake report.

I wasn't defending his claim, I was saying that if he'd been the cop, the operative word being "if". Since I'd seen him as scummy since yesterday, I was ready to doubt his claim if only you'd had a guilty report on someone else, scum.
If you'd had a guilty report on Robocopter, for example, I'd have been convinced that
you
were the real cop
(but he would have then been in my position and known that you were scum). But you've obviously gone for the fake report to save your scumbuddy Ciruda.

So now I'll ask the cop, do you still want to lynch Ciruda over Mykonian?
See the bolded.

If I were to fakeclaim, wouldn't it make more sense to claim a guilty on Robo, as you in the quoted part below picked me as your favorite townie :) I would have gotten it for sure. I could also have let Cirdua fakeclaim and go to lylo with two vanilla's. Both make much more sense then what you claim happened :P

No I think of it:
DJ was your top scum pick. I was your best town read
. And now suddenly that turned around 180 degrees... What a surprise!
AurorusVox wrote:I could have started with it directly but you had already beaten me to the first post of the day and started with something else so I wanted to deal with that before moving onto other things. If I'd just started about something else, I have a feeling that you'd have criticised me for avoiding answering the question (you accused me of this even when I did answer the question xD). Incidentally, you've talked about the hammer, but not said what you thought of it. Care to expand on your thoughts?

As for my reads;

-Unless DJ has a convincing reason for his hammer, I'd put him at #1 scummiest based on that (I've explained my thoughts on the hammer above). I was getting a neutral-to-townie vibe until he ended the day so abruptly.

-Unlike DJ, I don't see Robocopter's early claim as necessarily indicating a vanilla townie. He seemed blasé about being lynched, so I don't think he thought he was under that much pressure. The early claim can be a sign of scum, so I'd say I'm wary of him. He didn't really do that much yesterday, so I'm uncomfortable with him and would put him at #2 due to my read on you and my lack of read on Ciruda. But this is more of a speculative suspicion than anything really solid as of yet.

-I like your scumhunting posts, I don't like your misrepresentations, but it looks like this last one was a misunderstanding on my part, so I'll let that issue slide. You didn't really do much yesterday either, but you've started quite aggressively today with lots of questions (which I like and think gets you townie points). On the other hand, you could have already planned your aggressiveness last night and coordinated with a scum partner (but I don't think that's what's happened). You're my strongest town-read out of everyone, because you've been the most pro-active in scumhunting.

-I have a neutral read on Cirdua because he's not posted much to judge him by. I think even just plain lurking is a null-tell, because townies do it just as much as scum in my experience, but that could be more common in Newbie games where most of my games on-site have been.

-I have a townie-read on AurorusVox.
You are so screwed :P
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:25 am

Post by AurorusVox »

Yes, but clearly my scumreads weren't as good as I'd hoped. That's what I mean - you had me in the palm of your hand if you'd acted differently. It's the same argument as what you used against DJ - he was your top townie read, and now you want to lynch him because of his cop claim. You were my top townie read, and now I want to lynch you because of your cop claim. I don't see the difference in how we've acted here.
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:39 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

O god why am I in the hot seat?

Alright, question myk,
if you got a guilty on Aurorus why not vote him instead of DJ?
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:11 am

Post by don_johnson »

o well. i expected this, but i expected it from cirdua. i guess when your buddy lurks, you have to do what you have to do. thanks for making tomorrow easier. so, let me get this straight, you wanted to investigate someone and find them "town"? how on earth were your town reads on me and budja so strong? sorry, but i make it a point to act a little scummy when i have a power roler so as to avoid nightkills. my play on day 1 was certainly not stellar(though my cop moves have been ;) ) and you "joped to investigate someone as town", so you choose aurorous? wouldn't that mean that you had a town read on aurorus, then? that would give you a total of three town reads out of six players. did you doubt your ability to find one of two scum out of the remaining three?
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:48 am

Post by mykonian »

Robocopter87 wrote:O god why am I in the hot seat?

Alright, question myk,
if you got a guilty on Aurorus why not vote him instead of DJ?
It is even really. Don has fakeclaimed cop. He can't be the cop because I am, so he is scum.

You are confirmed town now. Sucks to be you. Town wants you attention and scum is going to try to trouble you view. Don't let them. The situation is simple. Either it is me and cirdua, or Don and Aurorus.

Aurorus is scum with don because he first stated don was scummiest and I towniest, after the claim (where it is win or lose) this suddenly is completely the other way. There is no reason for this. A clearer tell you aren't going to get.
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:28 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

Alright, no idea what to do. Will decide who to believe soon. Need some time. Please post your cases for each other.
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:42 am

Post by mykonian »

I won't. The more we post the more you'll get confused. Plus that it is absolutely clear that they are scum. You are already getting confused by the mess they are making now.

Aurorus switched his stances completely around this claim, and suddenly went from attacking Don to feircely defending his claim.
this is the point that makes it most clear
.

Further, I can only advice you to stay with your reads from before the game became a mess. This is a general truth: for that you had a whole thread to get that read, and it would be foolish to let the game depend on the last page.

Don is scum, I'm the cop. We win if we lynch Aurorus and Don.
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:46 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

I want to hear from Cirdua. Something. His opinion, first.
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:48 am

Post by don_johnson »

meh. sorry robo. i think i can explain this a bit better. myk's explanations seem extremely presumptuous.

first, his investigation choice seems based on the "fact" that he felt budja, myself, and av were town. why on earth would he play in that fashion? he's presuming players are town without evidence. you yourself questioned his "meta" argument for me.

then he jumps in to day 2 trying to coerce hyposcumcirdua to counterclaim him. so basically, he investigates av as scum, and then decides that you and i are town 100%. my theory here is that myk instructed cirdua in the qt to come out with a cop claim if budja didn't flip cop. unfortunately for myk, cirdua is v/la/lurking. so myk has taken control and is gambitting for the win.

hopefully when you reread, you'll see that my play is much more pro-town(maybe not my posting style, but certainly the substance of my actions and night choice). also, please note how myk is attempting to discredit av as opposed to presenting a case against me. he is again presumptuous about av's suspicions. a players opinions can change based on in game play, but myk is accusing av of not being "static" in his scumlist. i can't speak for av, but this game is dynamic and i am often myself struck by moments of great clarity. not to mention on i'm on a vicious town win streak. feel free to ask any questions.
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:51 am

Post by AurorusVox »

mykonian wrote:Aurorus switched his stances completely around this claim, and suddenly went from attacking Don to feircely defending his claim.
this is the point that makes it most clear
.
More classic misrepresentation from Mykonian. Are you ignoring the posts where I show that this is exactly what you did to Don_Johnson too? You said he was the towniest player, and now you're voting for him. How is this different from me finding you the towniest, and now saying that you are scum? And don't be stupid, of course my read is going to change when you make a fake claim and fake report. I'm not going to say "Oh, yes, the report is fake, but Mykonian must be town."

For me to continue thinking you're town I'd have to assume that you think that Ciruda is the cop and that you are town fake claiming in order to get Don_Johnson, your towniest read, lynched. Which is absolutely ridiculous. So yes, I know you're scum, its just that my scumdar wasn't functioning optimally before the fakeclaim.
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:51 am

Post by mykonian »

won't help you either. Or he is scum with me, or he is town and knows the situation.

Before I go, I'll try to make you understand the situation.

Assuming Don is town: he says you are town. I counterclaimed so I must be scum. He can't see an Aurorus-myk scumteam (neither can I), so Cirdua and Myk would be scum.
Assuming Myk is town: he says Aurorus is scum. Don fakeclaimed so he must be scum too. Leaves Robo and Cirdua as town.

Cirdua has no real choice. He knows he is town so Don and Aurorus are most likely scum (unless something freaky is going on and Aurorus and Myk are together)
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:02 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

I have stop listening to all three of you. Your just causing more WIFOM and nonsense. Waiting on Cirdua. Thats that.
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:32 am

Post by mykonian »

stop hiding!

Cirdua will add more "WIFOM" and if you are so incapable of unraveling it, then you won't gain anything. All mafia is WIFOM because you are never sure of what someone else says.

So in stead of waiting and absolutely doing nothing, reread:

Pick every possibility: reread once assuming I'm scum with Cirdua, then do the same with Don and AV. See what fits best and then dare to vote. Nobody can help you here.[/quote]
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:38 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

mykonian wrote:
stop hiding!

Cirdua will add more "WIFOM" and if you are so incapable of unraveling it, then you won't gain anything. All mafia is WIFOM because you are never sure of what someone else says.

So in stead of waiting and absolutely doing nothing, reread:

Pick every possibility: reread once assuming I'm scum with Cirdua, then do the same with Don and AV. See what fits best and then dare to vote. Nobody can help you here.
Think thats what you meant to do.

Fine. Rereading.
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:55 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

I think Aurorus is Town. My main issue is Myk and Don.

Both are scummy atm.

I am going to go with,
VOTE: Mykonian
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:57 am

Post by mykonian »

You are kidding me. I am definately not scummy.

anyway, congrats scum. Please vote and get this over with.
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:26 am

Post by Robocopter87 »

So, your still living.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:41 am

Post by AurorusVox »

Robocopter, I'll happily lynch the fake cop with you.

Vote: Mykonian


That puts him at L-1. Town victory is in sight :D
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:49 am

Post by mykonian »

Robocopter87 wrote:So, your still living.
No, I'm not. You chose wrong and we are going to lose. Afterwards you'll see how obvious it was.
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:07 am

Post by don_johnson »

unvote, vote: mykonian.


bring it home tomorrow. cirdua is #2.
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:27 am

Post by Phaen »

Sorry about the wait, I was a lil busy earlier today.


Final Day 2 Vote Count


mykonian ( 3 ) Robocopter87, AurorusVox, don_johnson

don_johnson ( 1 ) mykonian

Not Voting (1) Cirdua

With five alive, it takes three to lynch.


mykonian was lynched! He was the
Macho Cop
.

AurorousVox and don_johnson each whip out an AK-47 from their trenchcoats.
Before Robocopter and Cirdua knew what was happening, their blood painted the walls.

Image

The game ends in a
Scum
victory.
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