Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[xvart]

quadz. Back and forth on him because of his posts. Ends up with a mildly good feeling. Why? Because he went out of his way to correct a mistake he made here:

Oso

- so you don't think that scum would want to correct a mistake he/she made?

xvart.

[Oso]

Oso

- so you don't think that scum would want to correct a mistake he/she made?

Certainly they would. If it was to their advantage to do so. When I re-read quadz, I didn't see where he gained any real advantage to correcting that mistake. Other than maybe correcting something that may be used against him later. Or, perhaps, that he realized he made a mistake and honestly didn't want an uncorrected mistake laying out there, which was the interpretation I went with. It all goes back to what I said about him. It doesn't seem to me that he like he is doing anything maliciously at this point in the game. Are there things that bug me about him? Yes, there are but not severe enough to do more than make note of move on.

Oso, I'd like you to develop on your suspicions on me/friend just to be clear. Are they solely based on the fact that friend was in vezok's wagon? If not, why?

Already answered here: And I never thought Friend was scum for voting vezo. vezo got the town read and a Day 1 pass from me because two of the people that voted him are on my suspect list.

...
Friend: Tending scummy. But alot of that is based on an undefinable general itch rather than anything concrete to point to. Basically, that I don't think he is as thick as he was letting on earlier. On a re-read, I now hold the opinion that his interaction with me asking about my vote then unvote on Tasky weren't because he misunderstood them but rather that he was looking for some sort of contradiction or see if I would do some sort of weak sauce backpedal on my unvote. I reread my interaction with him wondering where my reasoning wasn't clear. Turns out I was perfectly clear and not just because I knew where I was going when I wrote them but no one else seems to have had any trouble understanding either the vote or the unvote. So, no vote right now on Friend either. I have no problem thinking he is scummy at the moment or even saying it, but I have no concrete evidence he is so, no vote at this time. But he is on my list of suspects.
...

Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08

. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.

No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.

This is basically why you will keep being my first suspect for a long time. You're basically excusing yourself of all responsibility (Oso, are you reading this? Isn't this the same thing Kage allegedly do and cause you to vote him?).

Yes I am, and is one of the reasons he hasn't gotten a full on town read from me. Again back to the whole impression thing. I think KageLord is doing it scummily, quadz, no. Just because I think one player is scummy for doing something it doesn't necessarily follow that I suspect another player as scummy because they are doing the same thing. Logic is good. For me it is useless by itself without stepping back and trying to figure out the 'why' of the situation. That requires assigning motivations based on gut and overall impressions on where I think the player(s) is going with their posts.

[diddin]

I'll be doing an ISO of quadz later this afternoon since a lot has fallen on him lately and this thread has enough posts to actually do a solid ISO now.

[Humble Poirot]

KageLord?
Yes.
He is trying to hard to paint someone scum. (I E : When I SSBF posted before me he made a pretty big case saying I am scum just because of that.) I just found this scum hunting tehnique a few days ago and it never proved me wrong.

People who try too hard to make someone seem scummy are usually scum.

...

Is he the only one doing that? The only one

trying hard to paint

someone as scum?

Oso's main case is set on the fact that A) KageLord kept going at Vezo for the post preview issue ("Using out of game reasoning to base an in-game scumcall on") and B) Because he is not totally confident in his vote (allegedly leaving space for either outcome town-scum).

Then we have vezokpiraka and q21 agreeing about the minute discrepancy and that's that. q212's vote & vezok's vote for everyone to see how that wagon has no substance. I'm impressed Kagelord is considered a lynching option right now.

Oso keeps talking generalities and answering every question evasively. He looks like a politician and that displeases me a great deal.

Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08

. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.

No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.

That's how it is, eh? I'm doing my own work. I just want to raise awareness at the fact that your case is as shaky as it goes and that you're refusing to discuss anything that might compromise it. You just shake off any logical inquiry in an evasive way. I've been attacking those reasons and wondering why you don't act consistently when different people do the same thing you call scummy. I worry about who follows along because this is mafia and town is subject to being manipulated by scum or misguided town. My aim is to prevent that by presenting the most objective scenario I can and providing all the facts I see.

I do not disagree with the fact that logic is not everything. But when you make a case on someone where you first focus on logic that doesn't hold together and there's no attempt to explain the "gut" you apparently feel, it makes me wonder at how easy it is to get anyone lynched.

[q21]

Just because my vote doesn't have a unique reason of its own doesn't mean that it doesn't have nay substance.

[Humble Poirot]

But wouldn't you care to at least defend it when someone attacks that point you agree with?

[q21]

I did.

[Oso]

Ok, I'll bite on that one. How do you explain 'gut feeling'? By definition it is not something based in logic. It based on past experience, overall impressions and perhaps even a subconscious awareness that something is wrong or right but you just haven't ferreted out the logical basis for it yet.

Yes. I use it some, where and when I think it appropriate to do so. The main thing is that I tend to throw out gut reads once more information shows that would invalidate the gut read. Information that I reserve the right to decide is valid or not. It's my gut after all.

Oso keeps talking generalities and answering every question evasively. He looks like a politician and that displeases me a great deal.

and this

I do not disagree with the fact that logic is not everything.

But when you make a case on someone where you first focus on logic that doesn't hold together

and there's no attempt to explain the "gut" you apparently feel, it makes me wonder at how easy it is to get anyone lynched.

Fair enough. Prove it.

1 - Examples showing I am evasive and using generalizations and tie it into how that might indicate that am scum.
2A - Show exactly(or even just generally) how my logic is flawed or doesn't hold together in relation to the case I presented against KageLord.
2B - Link that as well into a case that shows not only am I am wrong but also how that might indicate my alignment as well.

That's how it is, eh? I'm doing my own work.

I know you are. You hit on one of my pet peeves/self-defense actions. Namely that if you think I am scum and am deliberately trying to get KageLord lynched based on faulty logic then go with that. Don't try to set up a situation where you can lynch someone then use my case on KageLord to show I am scum. Because you know what's going to happen? You'll lynch quadz and when he flips town you'll say "Oh shit, we lynched a townie, but Oso is still scum. My bad there quadz." If you think I am deliberately setting up KG for a lynch because I took some bits and pieces and threw together a case simply to get a townie lynched then lynch me.

If you want an informational lynch then call for one. And if you are going to use a flip to try and determine my alignment then I suggest it be KageLord, that way you can use 'killed a townie or bussed a partner' no matter what happens. Might be easier too as you can start planning posts for either eventuality now and not wait for the flip.

[KageLord]

Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08

. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.

No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.

I don't like this argument either. This basically looks like you don't care if a wagon might be pushed because scum are jumping on it. One of the easiest ways to find scum is to examine wagons like that. Now, how do we know if someone voting on a wagon is scum or town? Well, we can't really know for sure until they flip, but a great way to increase or decrease suspicion is to examine their reasons behind voting. If they don't give a reason, that is scummy. If they give a good reason, that is more townish. However, if the only reason they give is "gut" or "don't like his posts" or just an exact mimic of someone else's reason, that is very scummy. So, let's let them answer for themselves, hm?

This is basically why you will keep being my first suspect for a long time. You're basically excusing yourself of all responsibility (Oso, are you reading this? Isn't this the same thing Kage allegedly do and cause you to vote him?).

Yes I am, and is one of the reasons he hasn't gotten a full on town read from me. Again back to the whole impression thing. I think KageLord is doing it scummily, quadz, no. Just because I think one player is scummy for doing something it doesn't necessarily follow that I suspect another player as scummy because they are doing the same thing. Logic is good. For me it is useless by itself without stepping back and trying to figure out the 'why' of the situation. That requires assigning motivations based on gut and overall impressions on where I think the player(s) is going with their posts.

Okay, so you're saying that a big part of the case against me is subjective (based on your gut feeling and impression)? That may be alright for your case, but I don't know how that could explain the other peoples' votes. Did they also have the exact same subjective thoughts? If their reasons so far were the same as yours, they would have to have just happened to think the same way and disregard quadz or the case against vezo.

________________________________________________

Just so you all know, I am now about 85% sure that vezo and Oso are scumbuddies. I've mentioned some things about Oso that strike me as scummy and most of them have been related to vezo. If I had to say what I think was going on in this game, I would say that vezo got caught early on and Oso had to come up with some way to help vezo without appearing to be purposely helping him. To accomplish that, he picked on a part of my case that seemed particularly weak or open to exploitation and tried (successfully) to get a wagon going on me. Obviously, this would mean that vezo noticed this and hopped on board with his buddy. The only part I'm still mulling over is q21's place in all of this. I put q21 at mostly neutral at the moment, with a few toes on the scummy side.

I was planning on waiting to actually voice the increased suspicion of Oso (and possibly q21) until later, but there very well may not be a later for me. If I don't get lynched today, I have a feeling I'll get NKed (possibly for this very post). So, in that event I urge all townies to watch Oso (and vezo if he's still alive) VERY closely.

_____________________________________________

Edit after preview: Again, I think a vezo lynch would provide just as much, if not more, information as my lynch. The vezo lynch has the added bonus of having a firm case against the lynchee other than "gut" and "information". If you're so adamant on getting that information, Oso, and you don't care whether vezo is scum or town, why not lynch vezo and use that in your case against me (and possibly Poirot as well) in the unlikely event that he flips town? Since you already got some attention in this wagon, imagine how much support you could get if the one I focused the most on was a townie.

[Oso]

..

Edit after preview: Again, I think a vezo lynch would provide just as much, if not more, information as my lynch. The vezo lynch has the added bonus of having a firm case against the lynchee other than "gut" and "information". If you're so adamant on getting that information, Oso, and you don't care whether vezo is scum or town, why not lynch vezo and use that in your case against me (and possibly Poirot as well) in the unlikely event that he flips town? Since you already got some attention in this wagon, imagine how much support you could get if the one I focused the most on was a townie.

I don't want an informational lynch. I want you lynched because I think you are scum. Big difference there. And if we can get to your lynch without scragging a townie first, that's even better.

And in case you missed it, this:

If you want an informational lynch then call for one. And if you are going to use a flip to try and determine my alignment then I suggest it be KageLord, that way you can use 'killed a townie or bussed a partner' no matter what happens. Might be easier too as you can start planning posts for either eventuality now and not wait for the flip.

was me giving Poirot the finger.

[Sotty7]

Okay, my weekend was a lot busier/stormier than expected, sorry about that. Anyway, I have read all the game now but it has turned my brain into mush. I'm hoping working though the player list with some ISO's gets me on track.

I think a lot of it all has to do with just how long the game as a whole spent on Tasky's questions and if they were rolefishing or scummy or whatever. It really was so over discussed at times it gave the scum a lot of good places to hide. It certainly bogged down the thread a lot and I was surprised with how quickly the Tasky wagon just evaporated into nothingness as soon as one person spoke up about it.

So naturally, with the quick abandonment of this wagon I became interested in it and decided to look closer. At the peak of the Tasky wagon we had four people voting for him. vezokpiraka, Oso, diddin, Super Smash Bros. Fan. Oso, in my mind had the real case on Tasky, he spots the contradiction and attacks it. Tasky however doesn't strike me as scum from the whole RVQ deal, just the tone of his posts and how he questions and follows up on everyone. It feels like true scum hunting to me. Oso comes to agree with this and unvotes Tasky because he starts to think that this is just how Tasky plays and isn't him trying to set a trap.

Then we get a knock on effect of vezo and diddin unvoting in pretty quick succession. Vezo's unvote is the scummiest to me. Just quotes Oso's reasoning and unvotes because he agrees. No added thoughts or analysis provided and to me looks like newb scum bailing on a wagon before attention is directed his way.

My feelings surrounding Vezo are further justified when you look at his contributions to the game. His first post and initial vote for Tasky is based of a lie:

I'll answer 6 only.
Usually people who want to end RVS by not saying "End the RVS" are scum.
Asking subtle question to end RVS = scum in my experience.

vote Tasky

When in all actuality Tasky had said he was making these questions to get out of RVS quickly, exactly what vezo was accusing Tasky of NOT doing.

now... since I'd actually like to get out of the RVS fast, I'll ask some questions for you to answer...

Note vezo posted his accusation right under the post where Tasky says this. Vezo does late back away slightly from his statement, claiming joke. I'm not buying it.

So you're giving tasky the noob pass but you're voting for me because of sheepping?
You sure you're not scum with Tasky?

After vezo unvotes, Friend is right there and votes him and I agree with how he said vezo was sheeping. vezo counters with this post which is striking to me because he had

just

unvoted Tasky himself basically because of the newb card Oso presented.

Based on the way Tasky has posted so far, if his questions are some sort of scum gambit, I am not seeing it.

This accusation and vezo's unvote don't add up or even work together at all. He is angry at Friend for doing something he himself is doing. Seems redundant and suggests that vezo had no idea why Oso unvoted Tasky in the first place, despite posting that he agreed and followed him.

The whole “ninja'ed” thing is null though. When I post and it pops up some else already posted I will often just post anyway and read the comment after. I mean it really doesn't matter. The 6 minute thing is also extremely weak and I was very suspicious of KageLord for pushing that. He does redeem himself as the game goes on how ever.

Wagon analysis.
We have tasky and friend. One who got a wagon formed on him at the beginning and one who defended him. KageLord - the one who is pushing a wagon on me for out of game reasons. We may have all the three(?) scums here.

I will

Vote KageLord

I really don't like his last few posts. He comes as incredibly scummy to me.

Vezo then OMGUS votes KageLord, which wouldn't be so bad if he had bothered to actually talk about what happened. Just “I don't like his last few posts” which is about as non committal as you can get while voting for someone. He once again calls Tasky scum despite having unvoted him earlier and throws Friend in their as another OMGUS move.

He tries to argue that the sheeping point against him is “useless”... um not really. You have done extremely little in this thread when it comes to scum hunting. I see a lot of active lurking, not breaking down your thought process and just fake attempts at scum hunting. I don't sense any urgency, just a lot of statements with very little attempt at digging beneath the surface.

= = = =

The next player on the Tasky wagon was diddin. He answered Tasky's questions and actually followed Oso's reasoning with his vote onto the wagon with the whole contradiction is scummy mindset.

Also, FoS:Vezopiraka for that backpedal.

I'm not sure I should be voting Task, as some other people said, he's pretty new, and I doubt noobscum would have such an elaborate plan. From my experiences, noobtown tend to want to be as helpful as possible and end up looking scummy because of it. That, and noobscum often will freak out and start flailing with only a few votes on them and start fiailing, while Tasky has kept his composure pretty well.

unvote

diddin

when you accuse vezo of backpedaling what

exactly

are you talking about? Because you pretty much do the same thing as him with your Tasky unvote, only you happened to use a lot more words. For clarity's sake you sheeped Oso and then “backed away” after he unvoted. Where is the difference?

The post after this we get diddin voting for vezo for post 92, which I agree is scummy and probably vote worthy at that point in the game. However in his next post he unvotes.

L-2 this early? I think we really need to take a look at this wagon, as it took off way too quick.

unvote

diddin

Why is L-2 a big deal to you? What was so quick about the wagon?

I also he states that we should look at the wagon but doesn't actually do that himself or mention it ever again. Fake concern is fake. Also scummy.

True Oso, but all of that was written before he saw Vezo's post explaining why the post took particularly long to write. However, KageLord doesn't unvote afterward, which makes it seriously look like he's grasping for straws here.

FoS: KageLord

Above is more sheeping of Oso by diddin. Why isn't anyone noticing this?

Post 161 by diddin on SSBF is actually pretty good and I agree with it (more on SSBF in a moment.) He later puts his vote on SSBF and his reasoning isn't really that bad I just happen to think vezo is scummier than SSBF.

diddin

who are your top three scum suspects?

= = = = =

SSBF is the last Tasky wagonee I wanted to look at. He was the only one that kept his vote on Tasky for a decent amount of time.

1. not answering questions is denying information... and thats scummy

No, not answering RQS questions is not scummy, it's a personal choice. Later on, when you're actually asking questions that actually contribute to the game, ignoring it constantly is scummy, but choosing not to answer RQS questions isn't scummy. This is why having a mixture of RVS and RQS is the best way to start a game IMO.

definitely town... scum already has (almost) all information they need... if I know more about you, it will be easier for me to find out whether you are scum or not...

The scums know who are the townies and who are the scums. But like townies, they can learn more. Information is helpful to town, but the downside is that they can sometimes be helpful mainly to scums. Scums want power roles dead before normal townies and by asking those questions, you are giving the scums an advantage.

I like the case on Tasky so far.

Unvote, Vote: Tasky

At that point, the case on Tasky was A)role fishing (which is seems SSBF agreed with.) and b) The Oso contradiction. So when SSBF says he likes that case, that is what he is talking about. I like Friend's question here asking SSBF to explain the case in his own words. SSBF responds with an ISO read which suggests that he was actually thinking about the case rather than just jumping aboard the wagon. In my mind he wins a couple of town points here, but it would have been better if he had laid out clearly, all his reasons without having to be asked for them.

After this he starts to get into bad territory. Defending someone is not a scum tell. If I see weak or bad attacks on a player that I don't agree with I will defend them, I would expect every townie to do the same. There are sometimes where defending a player is scummy (chainsaws have been discussed), but you really have to judge each situation individually.

Only scum deal in absolutes so SSBF's instance that no one should ever defend anyone hits my scumdar hard. Even more so when he makes this post.

Smash, Chainsaw Defenses aren't a scumtell unless the person someone is defending indireectly is confirmed scum. So attacking people for chainsaws D1 is just lol.

So are you saying we should ignore chainsaw defenses on other people if we don't know the people's alignments? I'd rather let people know about them now so people will more likely be able to pick up on them if Player A attacked Player C while defending Player B and Player B flips scum then ignore it until Player B flips scum.

Cop with a town result on someone.

Unless it's in a Newbie Game or in an Open game that doesn't have Serial Killer/Mafa Godfather/any role that turn up innocent although they are not town-aligned, you cannot fully trust your town investigation. Even in a game without anti-town roles that turn up innocent on investigations, there can be different variations of Cops. You could be insane, which means that you actually got an Innocent on a scum. There is no guarateen that your Innocent investigation is true in most circumstances.

Masons.

You cannot rule out the possibility of Masons being part of a scum factions as well. Maybe unlikely, but it can happen. Scum Masons can lie about there alignments as well.

That would just be boring.

And that's worse then intentionally self-voting during the scum hunting stage because?

Feels like he is already trying to discredit any possible power roles we might have in the town. There is paranoid and then there is

paranoid

. I think this is slightly ridiculous in all honestly.

Unvote

Tasky's play resemble's a townie a lot more. He is finally contributing to the game and making stances. I'll still keep a close eye on him, thought. For example, I thought his ISO of diddin and vezokpiraka contained some unecessary information, especially the points where he passes them off as null tells, those can be cut off unless he has something worthwhile to say about them. Looking forward to hearing more out of the slot.

I also need to re-read the thread to see if I can bring anything else to the table and mention who I think should be the play for ToDay.

@diddin: ISO: 9: Why have you decided against defending your actions that I brought up against you?

He finally unvotes Tasky and returns to the safe netural zone.

SSBF

the deadline is seemingly around the corner why has it taken you so long to back off Tasky when you really stopped pushing his case awhile ago? What are you doing to help us reach a lynch?

= = = = =

So this post kinda grew as I went a lot, here is a TL:DR (too long: Didn't read) section

• The Tasky wagon fell apart way too quickly and it caught my attention.
  
• Oso's vote on Tasky looked good to me. As did the way he unvoted and reasoned himself away from the wagon. Didn't feel forced, felt like a natrual progression.
  
• Out of the people that were on Tasky's wagon at it's peak, vezo is the scummiest for his lack of any contribution.
  
• diddin also sheeped Oso hard, but very few people picked up on it
  
• diddin's concern over vezo being at l-2 was extremely fake
  
• diddin's SSBF vote is actually good
  
• SSBF started off pretty well but fell off with his ABSOLUTE scum tells that just don't work in the real world of scum hunting
  
• SSBF doesn't seem to be scum hunting right now.

Vote: vezo

The scummiest to me. diddin and SSBF have their scummy moments and their good moments so this vote is an easy one.

I'm going to go ahead and say that I think Oso and Humble's little back and forth feels like a town v town logic fight to the death. I will need to re-read that whole section to clear my mind, but that is my initial reaction. Others I haven't mentioned yet are pretty inseparable in my mind and I will have to take time and look over the ISO's to get working opinions. Hoping to do that some time tonight, or maybe early morning.

Still hoping we get an extension, there is plenty to chew on as far as this game goes. I would like just a day or so more time to try and digest.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Thoughts on a few players:

ChibiSanNub/Sotty7: He did a bit of scum hunting in those four posts, but for some reasons, never voted anyone. He also parroted me a bit. Sotty7's big posts was fantastic, however, so I have a slight town read on the slot.

vezokpiraka: Anti-town at the very best, scummy at worst. To be honest, I really do agree with the cases that people formed against him as they are very good. Some things I want to add. Look at ISO: 7. This is for sure hypocrisy. He asks Friend to provide two suspects, yet vezokpiraka has done very little to benefit the town. I also don't like how he said he was lurking. This gives him an excuse to not contribute to the game and people definently need to notice this more (Post number is #270). He shows no willingness to help town at all. So with that said, I agree to a vezokpiraka's lynch.

Vote: vezokpiraka

Friend/Humble Poirot: I was suspicious of Friend due to earlier actions that I've mentioned before. However, I personally like Humble Poirot a lot more. It's nice to see him bring new life to the thread and make strong contributations to the game. He gets a town read from me for now.

Quadz08: Reading Quadz08 in ISO, #258 feels like AtE. He admitting to having a problem with his play style instead of actually making a decent response to Poirot's case to him with Poirot made in #252. I also find it odd that despite him attacking vezokpiraka, that he's currently going after me. He showed us more evidence that vezokpiraka was scum then I was, yet has a vote one me. I also wasn't a fan of his defense of diddin as it made him look hypocritical when calling me out for "defending is a scum tell.". The case against Quadz08 is decent as well. Willing to lynch him if vezokpiraka doesn't ge through ToDay.

KageLord: While I didn't like how he gave outs in his ISO of vezokpiraka and I thought discussing times were unecessary, he's made pretty strong contributations to the game, especially regarding vezokpiraka. I'll give a slight town read for now.

SSBF the deadline is seemingly around the corner why has it taken you so long to back off Tasky when you really stopped pushing his case awhile ago? What are you doing to help us reach a lynch?

For your first question, it's due to my play style. I tend to keep my vote on a person longer then most people, especially when it gets near deadline. This is because I don't like being inconsistent with my game play.

As for your second question, I'm currently trying to analyze every player in this game. I tried re-reading, but I didn't get much. I'll do a second re-read of posts that occured since my last re-read and check people out in ISO (From this post, you'll see that I already did).

Just because my vote doesn't have a unique reason of its own doesn't mean that it doesn't have nay substance.

But is is better to have unique reasons for voting a person, which is more contents then just agreeing with other people.

[diddin]

I did a look over quadz, I'll point out any scummy things I found.

Post 21 is the only one. His case on SSBF is fine I guess, but that thing at the end where he says he has his eye on xvart, kagelord, and vezo is scummy, because even though he never said anything about them before, he can say "Hey! I had my eye on you before, but now you're scummy so I can vote you!" Throwing unexplained FoS's around is scummy to me.

This was the only thing that really came across as scummy to me, as well as what xvart said. I'm much more confident in a SSBF lynch than a quadz lynch.

[totallynotmafia]

Vote count 1.8

Oso (0)
Tasky (0)
KageLord (3) Oso, vezokpiraka, q21
Humble Poirot (1) jayfl383
q21 (0)
jayfl383 (0)
xvart (0)
quadz08 (2) Humble Poirot, xvart
diddin (0)
vezokpiraka (4) Tasky, KageLord, Sotty7, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Sotty7 (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan (2) diddin, quadz08

Not voting:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline is July 26, 10:30 AM (GMT + 10:00).

I took Sotty's vote even though technically he should have unvoted first, but it was my fault for mucking up the last VC.

Considering the two replacements, the Tasky situation and the fact I have a major essay due in two days, I've extended the deadline to July 26, 10:30 AM (GMT + 10:00). I'll start looking for a replacement for Tasky if he hasn't posted by tomorrow.

[Humble Poirot]

Short post just to stay I'll probably be unable to post until tomorrow. Sorry. Friend's day here.

After a quick read I'm impressed and pleased at the clarity in which Sotty expressed his points. Glad to have you. Oso, I will answer your request, don't worry.

Till then.

Humble Poirot

PS: Mod, Thanks for the extension. I'll make good use of it tomorrow.

[Sotty7]

diddin, I had a couple of questions addressed to you in my post. Are you going to answer them?

[vezokpiraka]

We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is alredy getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.
I am waiting for either getting at L-2 to claim or kagelord getting lynched.

[Oso]

Since we are in a lull here.

MOD: I know it's maybe a bit early but could jay get prodded? I'm sure I'm not the only one who like to see him back in here.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is alredy getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but I think you've just made a contradiction. Why say "yay" to having more time to discuss if you're bored of the game?

[diddin]

diddin, I had a couple of questions addressed to you in my post. Are you going to answer them?

Yeah. I just wanted to focus my last post more on reading over quadz.

When I'm referring to vezo backpedaling, I'm referring to his voting on Tasky, then when the instigator of the bandwagon unvotes, he jumps off the wagon with just an "I agree." I'd say the difference is I actually posed my own insight on my unvote where vezo just blindly agreed. L-2 tends to be a big deal to me early in the game because D1 tends to generate the most discussion we can use for the future. I never want to rush a lynch D1 because I always feel there is more to discuss D1.

Top 3 scumspects:

1. SSBF
2. quadz
3. vezo

KageLord is a close fourth.

[diddin]

We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is alredy getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but I think you've just made a contradiction. Why say "yay" to having more time to discuss if you're bored of the game?

Either your sarcasm detector is bugged or you're looking WAY too hard for reasons to vote someone.

[xvart]

Only scum deal in absolutes

Yes, wise Obi Wan.

We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is alredy getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.
I am waiting for either getting at L-2 to claim or kagelord getting lynched.

What are you talking about? How about you get on a real case wagon like quadz08? The case on quadz is 100x times better than KageLord and even more obvious. If you want to contribute (in a meaningful way) help put some pressure on quadz. Like NOW.

Quadz08: Reading Quadz08 in ISO, #258 feels like AtE. He admitting to having a problem with his play style instead of actually making a decent response to Poirot's case to him with Poirot made in #252. I also find it odd that despite him attacking vezokpiraka, that he's currently going after me. He showed us more evidence that vezokpiraka was scum then I was, yet has a vote one me. I also wasn't a fan of his defense of diddin as it made him look hypocritical when calling me out for "defending is a scum tell.". The case against Quadz08 is decent as well. Willing to lynch him if vezokpiraka doesn't ge through ToDay.

What do you mean the case on quadz is good? Like, you think he is likely scum? Or could he be anti-town? Or could he just be town in a pickle?

Ok, I'll bite on that one. How do you explain 'gut feeling'? By definition it is not something based in logic. It based on past experience, overall impressions and perhaps even a subconscious awareness that something is wrong or right but you just haven't ferreted out the logical basis for it yet.

Who was this directed at? I'm going to go ahead and say that playing by gut is fine but it shouldn't be used as a tool to finagle lynch orders/preferences in such drastic ways.

Case Study by xvart #1:

Quadz lynch preference

1. SSBF
   -
   "defending people is a scum tell"
   ;
   attacking q21's self vote
   ; and,
   "gut"
   
   
2. vezok
   - short posts
   
3. xvart
   -
   "defending people is a scum tell"
   ;
   attacking q21's self vote

You can't possibly tell me that "gut" has that much sway in someone's mind about scum to boost the exact same case (not even taking into consideration SSBF's less aggressive approach and tenacity compared to me) over someone who posts are short?

Edit after preview: Again, I think a vezo lynch would provide just as much, if not more, information as my lynch. The vezo lynch has the added bonus of having a firm case against the lynchee other than "gut" and "information". If you're so adamant on getting that information, Oso, and you don't care whether vezo is scum or town, why not lynch vezo and use that in your case against me (and possibly Poirot as well) in the unlikely event that he flips town? Since you already got some attention in this wagon, imagine how much support you could get if the one I focused the most on was a townie.

How about we skip the informational lynches and just get to lynching the obvious scum? Regardless, lynching vezok will yield little in terms of information because everyone has a reason to get rid of vezok, regardless of his alignment.

I have a question for everyone:

at any point, up until the last page or so, did you ever think that SSBF was even a remote possibility for a lynch today?

xvart.

[vezokpiraka]

This day is too swingy.
Anything can happen and everyone may get lynched.

Here get some pressure if it's needed. My vote is still on kagelord but xvart apparently wants some help.

Unvote
Vote Quadz

[q21]

What do you mean your vote is still on KageLord?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Top 3 scumspects:

1. SSBF
2. quadz
3. vezo

Okay, wait a minute, the order doesn't really make much sense. You put Quadz08 at 2nd and vezokpiraka at 3rd. Yet you pushed vezokpiraka's lynch more then quadz08's lynch, where you said he only had one post. How is that one post you called quadz08 out on makes him scummier then vezokpiraka?

What do you mean the case on quadz is good? Like, you think he is likely scum? Or could he be anti-town? Or could he just be town in a pickle?

It should be obvious that I think quadz08 is pretty scummy, so yeah, I think he's likely scum.