Mini 1009 ÔÇô Popularity mafia (Game over - Mafia wins)

[Ectomancer]

Perhaps you and I differ on what a "scumtell" is and isn't. Actions over time cause you to slide around on the neutral-town-scum scale. Not taking an opportunity to advance the game in a more productive way is one of those types of actions.
A scumtell is an "Ahah! I F^%#ing got you!", at least to me. I've had some few of those revelations, but, like I said, few accurate ones and I've played many games.

Now, if you want to see what a scumtell callout

should

look like, this is what was skipped over (no Korts, in general). I am asserting that Iron Man took such a strongly neutral, non-provocational stance in his opening statement in order to avoid direct confrontations and accountability for any stance taken, because he didn't quite take one.

Iron Man voting eljcko for voting first. I like the vote, but not the reason so much. It is weak and easily waved aside by either party because really it isn't taking a stance at all. A stronger reason behind the vote would have been to vote eljcko for insisting on voting randomly in order to avoid taking a stance. Something along those lines could have generated a nice tiff and the game would be off and rolling. It seems to me that Iron Man missed an opportunity to take a stronger stance when it presented itself, and further defused the possible conflict generated by a vote by saying further that he agreed with eljcko. Perhaps he didn't see it, but perhaps he did and is yella-bellied under the iron exterior.

vote Iron Man

Now I voted and made an honest wagon of the thing, and so what you should be asking is how serious is Ecto? Do I believe in this one or am I just kicking off the first wagon? Do

you

find it a likely scum move by Iron Man?
Mothrax, you know what over-defensive is? It's getting huffed up that someone is "targeting you" despite the fact that in that same post he made an actual case on two different people and voted one of them and commented on every other previous poster in addition to yourself.

Vote count

(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)

(3) Iron Man - Cuethlachtli, ChannelDelibird, Ectomancer
(2) mothrax - Simenon, scotmany12
(2) Scotmany12 – eljcko, mothrax
(1) eljcko - Iron Man
(1) Blackberry – Korts

Not voting: Blackberry, Thief, tumescence

:arrow: Day 1 – (Deadline is August 10)

[Ectomancer]

This is the type of thing, had I heard it about someone else, I would think the two were mafia partners.

What do you mean?

I think that he is saying that if he were someone else, Blackberry or Mothrax would be the lynch today.

[scotmany12]

Are you convinced he's scum?

It's one page into the game. Of course I'm not convinced he's scum. But him saying he dislikes RVS, then not providing another solution, and him not voting because he didn't want to vote first, is mildly scummy. And I don't know why town would say this:

especially if by some weird chance he flips scum

And his recent OMGUS on me doesn't look good either.

[scotmany12]

Also, @Ecto: Why do you attack Iron Man for random voting, but not eljcko? You say Iron Man missed an opportunity to take a stronger stance, yet the same could be said for eljcko.

[Blackberry]

This is the type of thing, had I heard it about someone else, I would think the two were mafia partners.

What do you mean?

I think that he is saying that if he were someone else, Blackberry or Mothrax would be the lynch today.

Not "would be the lynch today". Just something that would spike my radar as them two being together (aka me and mothrax), and I would further probe them to see if anything comes of it.

Mothrax's reaction to scotmany12, although waranted, almost seems a bit overexaggerated. scotmany12 I believe is an experienced player, I think he would know to say something, even as mafia. I do question why he didn't say anything though. I guess to me, knowing scotmany12 is experienced, as a mafia or a townsperson, it doesn't make sense to me that scotmany12 didn't write any explanation... O_o.

Also, Simenon, at this current time, I think you've spiked my interest the most.

First, you make a short post, completely ignoring the other conflicts going on (from reading old games, I notice this is what scum do when a partner is in the other conflict and doesn't want to get themselves involved).

Vote mothrax for equivocating.

Then you ask a short question for me,

I don't understand

why you would ask me that question. The comment I made made sense, so I don't see why you wouldn't understand it. The only reason I can see to ask that question is for you to further provoke the comment so you can entice me to argue that me or mothrax should be targets. So, if you are genuinely a townsperson, you shouldn't have trouble answering this: what aspect of my comment didn't you understand? What was your intentions in asking that question?

My philosophy is that mafia players can't fake sincerity like the real town people are. Even if they are really experienced, they won't be able to fake suspecting people and analyzing people the same way a genuine townsperson would. And the reason I am telling you, and everyone this, is because I want the mafia to be intimidated. The more intimidated you are, they more likely I'll find that fakeness that envelopes the mafia and I'll catch it.

---------

Also, I'm posting too much since my original post for it to play out completely (I'm very eager to play forum mafia again after so long ). For the record,

Kort's

vote on me strikes me as suspect. Ecto seems to be smart in realizing that my intentions were to ignire discussion. From my prospective, if I do something unusual to the mafia forums, the mafia will snap at that and attempt to make me an easy target because of this. Korts immediately voting me and turning what I said into something "anti-town" as he puts it is something I would have expected mafia to do. I wish I had waited to everyone had posted to see if anyone else tried to jump on me for it, but at this time, I feel like the discussions have developed into other things and if and who people vote might be out of that initial beginning stage. The fact that Korts did that, and then Simoneon next post was ignoring anything Kort said and that he failed to comment on it.

Ecto seems smart, if he is mafia, he'll be a worthy adversary, but at this time my read on him is that he is town (just an initial read, nothing more). Also, my read on mothrax is town (moreso gut, but like I said, these two reads are just initial reads, nothing I am sticking with at this time for sure until the game continues on).

[Korts]

BB: you expressed a dislike of RVS and an unwillingness to participate in it, but didn't propose anything else. You had the initiative by virtue of being the first poster, but you passed up the opportunity of doing anything proactive, expressing only the intention of giving analysis once something "odd" crops up. That, to me, shows that you aren't interested in stimulating and steering discussion, when that's exactly what I think a pro-town player should be doing.

As to your comment about mothrax, why do you discount (or at least fail to mention) the possibility of him buddying up to you?

mothrax: you seem to be leaning unnaturally towards BB being town. Do you have any particular reason?

Ecto: I didn't address your case(s) because I found the argument sound and at least partly agreed, but don't think town gains anything at this point from tunneling on a single suspect.

Preview edit: BB kinda seems to be downplaying the connection between him and mothrax, especially considering this sentence:

Mothrax's reaction to scotmany12, although waranted, almost seems a bit overexaggerated

[Simenon]

I am not going to post for the sake of it. It's not my policy, and I have no intention to make it mine. If you have a question, ask, but otherwise I'll comment when I think it's appropriate.

Then you ask a short question for me, I don't understand why you would ask me that question.

It's hard to believe that you don't see the advantage in asking instead of telling. If I point out the flaw in your post, it conditions your response.

The only reason I can see to ask that question is for you to further provoke the comment so you can entice me to argue that me or mothrax should be targets

The purpose was to provoke further comment. I want information out of you. Your policy of staying out of the fray is unproductive at best, but I think you've convinced me that it's more than that. At the very least, it would help to knock you out of your self-made perch.

So, if you are genuinely a townsperson, you shouldn't have trouble answering this: what aspect of my comment didn't you understand?

It wasn't clear to me which two players you were referring to.
Your post was essentially arguing that, if you weren't town, those posts would be scummy. It's a useless and silly point to make. What exactly were you trying to accomplish?

My philosophy is that mafia players can't fake sincerity like the real town people are. Even if they are really experienced, they won't be able to fake suspecting people and analyzing people the same way a genuine townsperson would. And the reason I am telling you, and everyone this, is because I want the mafia to be intimidated. The more intimidated you are, they more likely I'll find that fakeness that envelopes the mafia and I'll catch it.

I'm not buying any of this. The verbosity, the rhetoric, it all sounds pretty fake.

[scotmany12]

Mothrax's reaction to scotmany12, although waranted, almost seems a bit overexaggerated. scotmany12 I believe is an experienced player, I think he would know to say something, even as mafia. I do question why he didn't say anything though. I guess to me, knowing scotmany12 is experienced, as a mafia or a townsperson, it doesn't make sense to me that scotmany12 didn't write any explanation... O_o.

There are plenty of reasons to not post reasoning. I'm surprised, with you being and

experienced

player, why you think there would be no reason to vote without reasoning, especially this early in the game. I wanted to see how he reacted, and he reacted poorly.

[Blackberry]

BB: you expressed a dislike of RVS and an unwillingness to participate in it,

but didn't propose anything else.

You had the initiative by virtue of being the first poster, but you passed up the opportunity of doing

anything proactive

, expressing only the intention of giving analysis once something "odd" crops up. That, to me, shows that you aren't interested in stimulating and steering discussion, when that's exactly what I think a pro-town player should be doing.

A) I didn't propose anything else,

I did propose

yall do the random voting. (I'll let you kids figure out the random voting). I simply just don't want to do it myself.

B) I did something proactive by stirring discussion. (If you find me being anti-random voting unusual, please discuss.)

As to your comment about mothrax, why do you discount (or at least fail to mention) the possibility of him buddying up to you?

Reading his posts, I don't think he intended to buddy up to me or even defend me, just agree with me in his initial post. In his second post, I think some of his words were odd. Overall, however, I think he is being genuine in his actions and reactions, I do not get the feeling he is mafia trying to buddy up to me so I can get killed, turn town, and make him look clearer.

Preview edit: BB kinda seems to be downplaying the connection between him and mothrax, especially considering this sentence:

Korts, if you are town in a game and there is someone who is slightly looking like they are buddying up to you, but not really, what would you do?

I am downplaying it because I don't think his actions were intentional.

(Referring to Mothrax) Also, who do you think is more likely to admit their personal opinion that they also don't like random voting, a townsperson, or a mafia?

[Simenon]

By the way, BB, you apparently had no problem with this:

@scotmany12: care to elaborate?

[Blackberry]

Mothrax's reaction to scotmany12, although waranted, almost seems a bit overexaggerated. scotmany12 I believe is an experienced player, I think he would know to say something, even as mafia. I do question why he didn't say anything though. I guess to me, knowing scotmany12 is experienced, as a mafia or a townsperson, it doesn't make sense to me that scotmany12 didn't write any explanation... O_o.

There are plenty of reasons to not post reasoning. I'm surprised, with you being and

experienced

player,

why you think there would be no reason to vote without reasoning, especially this early in the game.

I wanted to see how he reacted, and he reacted poorly.

The underlined part I understand, the bolded part I do not.

[scotmany12]

Mothrax's reaction to scotmany12, although waranted, almost seems a bit overexaggerated. scotmany12 I believe is an experienced player, I think he would know to say something, even as mafia. I do question why he didn't say anything though. I guess to me, knowing scotmany12 is experienced, as a mafia or a townsperson, it doesn't make sense to me that scotmany12 didn't write any explanation... O_o.

There are plenty of reasons to not post reasoning. I'm surprised, with you being and

experienced

player,

why you think there would be no reason to vote without reasoning, especially this early in the game.

I wanted to see how he reacted, and he reacted poorly.

The underlined part I understand, the bolded part I do not.

I might have worded it incorrectly. There are plenty of reasons not post a reasoning while voting. Why doesn't it make sense to you that I would provide no reasoning?

[Blackberry]

Then you ask a short question for me, I don't understand why you would ask me that question.

It's hard to believe that you don't see the advantage in asking instead of telling. If I point out the flaw in your post, it conditions your response.

I didn't say I don't see an advantage in asking questions, I said I don't understand

why

you would ask me that question.

Your policy of staying out of the fray is unproductive at best, but I think you've convinced me that it's more than that. At the very least, it would help to knock you out of your self-made perch.

First off, when did I ever say that my policy is to stay out of the fray?

Second off, what are you referring to when you referenchnig a "self-made perch"?

I find both your comments offensive because they suggest you are making assumptions that come from no where.

Your post was essentially arguing that, if you weren't town, those posts would be scummy. It's a useless and silly point to make. What exactly were you trying to accomplish?

My post does not say "if I weren't town, those posts would be scummy" it says, if I weren't ME and I didn't know my own alignment, that post would be summy.

My philosophy is that mafia players can't fake sincerity like the real town people are. Even if they are really experienced, they won't be able to fake suspecting people and analyzing people the same way a genuine townsperson would. And the reason I am telling you, and everyone this, is because I want the mafia to be intimidated. The more intimidated you are, they more likely I'll find that fakeness that envelopes the mafia and I'll catch it.

I'm not buying any of this. The verbosity, the rhetoric, it all sounds pretty fake.

[/quote]

This is my philosophy. Whether you are questioning it because it's not the norm, or you're questioning it because you're mafia trying to attack my playstyle, I do not know.

[mothrax]

@mod: can we get a vote count?

My defense of the claim that I reacted poorly will depend on the vote count honestly...
I will say this, I don't feel I reacted poorly. I had a wagon beginning to grow on me. I know from experience that wagoners seem to be scummy when the player being accused is under scrutiny for something not necessarily scum. The others voting for me had stated reasons for voting for me, scot did not. That lead me to believe that he was just jumping on a wagon.

Vote counts will, most of the time, be edited in at the top post of every page as soon as I come in and check the thread (as done above).

[Blackberry]

Mothrax's reaction to scotmany12, although waranted, almost seems a bit overexaggerated. scotmany12 I believe is an experienced player, I think he would know to say something, even as mafia. I do question why he didn't say anything though. I guess to me, knowing scotmany12 is experienced, as a mafia or a townsperson, it doesn't make sense to me that scotmany12 didn't write any explanation... O_o.

There are plenty of reasons to not post reasoning. I'm surprised, with you being and

experienced

player,

why you think there would be no reason to vote without reasoning, especially this early in the game.

I wanted to see how he reacted, and he reacted poorly.

The underlined part I understand, the bolded part I do not.

I might have worded it incorrectly. There are plenty of reasons not post a reasoning while voting. Why doesn't it make sense to you that I would provide no reasoning?

Because if you're voting someone after some attacks have been made agains't them, it seems odd not to give a comment with your opinions. As I stated before, at that time I didn't think it said anything about you being mafia or town, because I think even if you were mafia, you wouldn't just vote and not saying anything. At this time, I guess it makes sense for you to have done it to see how he reacted (something I didn't think of) - although I feel there might be more to it.

[Blackberry]

By the way, BB, you apparently had no problem with this:

@scotmany12: care to elaborate?

Why would I have a problem with that? It was a question that made sense.

-----------

mothrax - The Vote Count is at the top of the page.

[scotmany12]

mothrax - you did not have a wagon growing on you. You had one vote on you. One vote. Me placing a second vote on you is not blatant wagoning. And its a little tidbit, but I find it more likely that those who use "honest" in any form are scum, as you did when you said IMHO. It's small, but town have no reason to not be honest, so it's weird when people say that.

BB - why are you still not voting anyone?

[mothrax]

scotmany: the h in imho stands for humble, not honest. Also, for some reason I thought you put me at three not two. my bad.

bb/mod: thanks, I see it now.

[Blackberry]

I am currently not confident enough in any of my suspects to cast a vote.

I need to hear more from Simoneon and Korts to get a better analysis.

[Iron Man]

@ Ecto

You seem to be targeting me on charges of stagnating possible discussion by buddying up with elcko. My vote post four of the game was entrenched in RVS and very little was meant by it. I don't understand what you mean by creating a "tiff" with him when the vote was obviously RVS and would be written off by him post haste. I especially don't understand why you would think I would argue with him considering the fact that I mostly agree with his stance on the RVS issue.

@ChannelDelibird

Yeah, I did play that game kind of horridly.

Finally, major

FoS: scotmany12

for blatant bandwagoning and avoidance of discussion. I open the floor to you sir. Please enlighten us for the reason of your vote.

[Thief]

Vote: Blueberry

Why so serious?

[Iron Man]

* I'd like to preface my previous post on that I missed all of page two by accident when I posted it. I'll post a follow-up in a few minutes.

[scotmany12]

Finally, major

FoS: scotmany12

for blatant bandwagoning and avoidance of discussion. I open the floor to you sir. Please enlighten us for the reason of your vote.

Have you not read the last page or something?

[Thief]

* I'd like to preface my previous post on that I missed all of page two by accident when I posted it. I'll post a follow-up in a few minutes.

Unvote:
Vote: Iron Man

I don't believe in accidents.

[eljcko]

Vote: Blueberry

Why so serious?

You mean Blackberry, right? Plus Batman quotes =/= an explanation so I'd like to see you elaborate on your vote.

@ Ecto

You seem to be targeting me on charges of stagnating possible discussion by buddying up with elcko. My vote post four of the game was entrenched in RVS and very little was meant by it. I don't understand what you mean by creating a "tiff" with him when the vote was obviously RVS and would be written off by him post haste. I especially don't understand why you would think I would argue with him considering the fact that I mostly agree with his stance on the RVS issue.

I think he meant you could have gotten this game rolling quickly with little random voting had you started a little argument with me over this. Instead you remained neutral and you can deduce what ever you want off of that.

Unvote:
Vote: Iron Man

I don't believe in accidents.

I saw this after i hit preview, but Iron Man's post does stick to only the first page so i don't think this vote is justified.